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  #1  
Old 04-15-2015, 06:31 PM
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Default Poll: Buddy Rich

Vote here: http://www.poll-maker.com/poll294038xeFA74C3a-11

Results are here: http://www.poll-maker.com/results294038x715D2F74-11

As much as I respect all drummers, I was never a fan, not even as a kid. Just curious to see who likes him or not, and why.
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2015, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephDAqui View Post
Vote here: http://www.poll-maker.com/poll294038xeFA74C3a-11

Results are here: http://www.poll-maker.com/results294038x715D2F74-11

As much as I respect all drummers, I was never a fan, not even as a kid. Just curious to see who likes him or not, and why.
I saw him in the late 70's. Pretty awesome drummer and I respect his playing ability. But, I am not a fan; he strikes me as an arrogant, self-centered SOB. I would not be interested in spending time with him. He could have learned a lesson in humility from other greats such as Gadd, Smith, Hamilton and Burmuda.

GJS
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2015, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Louis Bellson is far better and wasn't self centered and angry. That man does not get enough respect. Buddy gets far too much.
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2015, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Militant View Post
Louis Bellson is far better and wasn't self centered and angry. That man does not get enough respect. Buddy gets far too much.
Buddy regardless ,was technically and musically superior to LB when it came to drumming.
Louis had his niche and was a competent foil to BR.but after seeing both up close and personal ,it's BR.
Just because he was an abrasive ass at times ,does not negate his overall record of being one of the greatest ever.
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  #5  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Well, my Dad could have beat up your Dad.


.
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Well, my Dad could have beat up your Dad.


.
exactly

is this an 8th grade lunch table ?
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  #7  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

This is all I have to contribute and I am very sorry for it...

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  #8  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
exactly

is this an 8th grade lunch table ?
It's worse; more like my God can beat up your God.

Personally, I don't mind that He was a total a-hole. The Man had some pretty serious thoughts about the way things should be done, and it was His gig. It's gotta be frustrating being so untouchable cos who could He find (bandmate-wise) that could operate at His level so consistently?

Only "fault" I can come up with was His atrocious snare sound. Boxy choked POS in every recording I've ever heard. Haha
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Well I think his Momma beat up all our Daddy's. I bet when we are all dead no one will be having this conversation concerning our drumming efforts.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2015, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

i think Buddy's the best. he's so crisp.

i can't think of a quicker cleaner drummer.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2015, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Okay, I voted. But I'm not telling anyone what for.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2015, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I voted.

I thought he was pretty cool myself. He gave his all, and I'd say he more than reached his potential. He was a badass. He was like the Fletcher of bandleaders lol.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I thought he was pretty cool myself. He gave his all, and I'd say he more than reached his potential. He was a badass.
+1.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Okay, I voted. But I'm not telling anyone what for.
Yep. Cover your work. The last thing you want is some snidey bugger copying your answers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
It's worse; more like my God can beat up your God.
Hey at least you've got one to beat. I'm still trying to figure out which one I can best exploit. Difficult choice. It would seem the boundaries of deity exploitation throughout history have been limitless.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 04-17-2015 at 01:32 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Hey at least you've got one to beat. I'm still trying to figure out which one I can best exploit. Difficult choice. It would seem the boundaries of deity exploitation throughout history have been limitless.
Now that you mention it, I really don't. But if I did, better Buh-lieve I'd be working some angle to exploit ... man, I'd have me a big white Cadillac, powder-blue suits, an expensive Elvis hair piece, and some hookers.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

There's Buddy's personality,

and then there's Buddy's drumming prowess.

It's possible to be a fan of one and not the other.
Not a well thought out question for a poll.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2015, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

fanhood is silly...I voted no

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
exactly

is this an 8th grade lunch table ?
Apparently.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2015, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I really never understand why people let a musician's personality cloud their judgement of their skills. Lots of people you may look up to may also be a holes and you just don't know it.

Buddy is the first drummer I saw that made me want to play. I wonder how much of this is generational as well.

But as with all of these types of discussions I will refrain from saying best and refer to Buddy as one of a few I would list as all time best.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2015, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Great people can be wacky. I know a guy who works large venues staging big concerts. He told me once that at a Neil Diamond show, no one is allowed to look at Neil directly when you pass him in a hall backstage for instance. I don't know what happens if someone looks, but you're not supposed to look. Like he's Medussa lol.

I like what wildbill said, you can be a fan of his drumming and not his personality. I think he was a complex individual, sweet at times, vicious at other times. The vicious times are remembered more. If there were no bus tapes....I really think those tapes went a long way into "defining" him as a tyrant.
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2015, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Shoot it is like all of us-the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm fortunate to have friends who just aren't bothered with the bad and ugly-as I with them. He who hasn't been a real dick before can cast the first stone LOL.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-2015, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

As a drummer yes, as a person not so much although I never met him in person and am just basing that off internet clips.

I would love to have seen him sit in with a rock band like Deep Purple, Grand Funk or the like just to see how that would sound. Although he would probably consider that being wayyy beneath him.
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  #21  
Old 04-18-2015, 12:22 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by drstrangefunk View Post
i think Buddy's the best. he's so crisp.

i can't think of a quicker cleaner drummer.
Joe Morello.

Everyone talks about Buddy because he was such a big personality. But Morello was the guy everyone wanted to play like.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-2015, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I think Buddy was the best ever on drums, IMO. It is very common to bring up the bad personality stuff about him. But I wonder why I hardly ever hear about John Bonham and his "personality problems." Has anyone read the book "Hammer of the Gods" on Led Zep? Bonham's secret nickname was "the beast" and the other band members tried to stay as far from him as possible when he was drunk, which was quite often. Both men were phenomenal drummers. Both were not the best of role models.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-2015, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruok View Post
I think Buddy was the best ever on drums, IMO. It is very common to bring up the bad personality stuff about him. But I wonder why I hardly ever hear about John Bonham and his "personality problems." Has anyone read the book "Hammer of the Gods" on Led Zep? Bonham's secret nickname was "the beast" and the other band members tried to stay as far from him as possible when he was drunk, which was quite often. Both men were phenomenal drummers. Both were not the best of role models.
Yeah I read that book many years ago, decades ago probably. He and Peter Grant were not particularly nice.
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2015, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
Joe Morello
Comparing Morello and Buddy is like comparing apples and (really angry) oranges. I think in terms of technical facility Buddy was probably superior, but Morello was a lot more musical. I think Morello also gets a little lost in the jazz world, as the music he was playing (with brubeck) wasn't especially hip among jazz guys.

There are tons of drummers who I think were more musical than Buddy, my favorite was Ed Thigpen, but I think Buddy was more into the technical aspect of it, like all his single stroke patterns. if Iwere a band leader and I wanted to play something musical, Buddy wouldn't even be on my list, but if I wanted to showcase a drummer with some hot arrangements, there's no one else but Buddy.
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:45 PM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by tcspears View Post
Comparing Morello and Buddy is like comparing apples and (really angry) oranges. I think in terms of technical facility Buddy was probably superior, but Morello was a lot more musical. I think Morello also gets a little lost in the jazz world, as the music he was playing (with brubeck) wasn't especially hip among jazz guys.

There are tons of drummers who I think were more musical than Buddy, my favorite was Ed Thigpen, but I think Buddy was more into the technical aspect of it, like all his single stroke patterns. if Iwere a band leader and I wanted to play something musical, Buddy wouldn't even be on my list, but if I wanted to showcase a drummer with some hot arrangements, there's no one else but Buddy.
Well I can't prove anything either way, but I know if I listen to Morello he sounds more technical than Buddy (Buddy was crazy fast but Morello seems as fast, if not faster, and way more technically precise).

And, anecdotally, there are so many stories about Morello being in-residence at various jazz clubs and every drummer seeking him out to be absolutely shamed at napkin-drumming (Morello would practice on a folded napkin between sets and people would actually just sit and watch him).

Maybe Morello's musicality is what sells it for me ... I've never liked Buddy's playing. I respect his ability but I don't like anything he's ever played on. Kind of like Dream Theater :-P
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  #26  
Old 04-28-2015, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

i always had a respect for drummers,
learning guitar and bass and playing music in bands
not talking personality, or who they are as a person.
but i admire and respect his drumming skills.
with a lot of others, it really is had to rate and compare musicians/
we all can have our utmost favs of all time etc...
but all in all, he is on my top 10 list ( well top 20 for sure )lol
, so it makes me a fan i guess
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2015, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I keep the artist and the person separate.

He was a brilliant drummer.
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2015, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

No matter how you feel about his persona and ego, Buddy was the greatest drummer who ever lived. No one can take that away from him.
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  #29  
Old 04-28-2015, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

With all due respect, Bob...

Buddy Rich was a great drummer, highly influential, a great pioneer, a great showman, and a great musician.

But the greatest drummer that ever lived?

No. Not anymore. There are a number of drummers alive today who would absolutely smoke him with their repertoire of ability and their musicality, their open-mindedness, and their creativity.

This is not to take away anything from Buddy at all, but to say that he is the greatest drummer who ever lived is an affront to all the drummers in the world who have moved above and beyond everything Buddy Rich did.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwearnohats View Post
No. Not anymore. There are a number of drummers alive today who would absolutely smoke him with their repertoire of ability and their musicality, their open-mindedness, and their creativity.
I'm not sure how you're defining greatness. Taken in context, I would argue that nobody who has ever lived would "smoke" Buddy in any of those regards.

The drummers alive today have the benefit of access to everything anyone has done on the instrument for the past 90 years or so. They can take what's come before them and add something new to the lexicon. They're standing on the shoulders of Buddy and what he created. Buddy created an entire canon of work that drummers still study today.

Buddy didn't directly influence me all that much, but I have no problem with people extolling his greatness. There are things he did musically that I don't believe have been done as well by anyone else, before or since.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

You have to add up the total career achievements of Buddy.
Decade after decade of playing at a super high consistent level.
He commanded the stage. His quirks were part of his charm.
He never stopped. He had heart attacks and he didn't even slow down!
His ability was above human.
Im sorry, but no matter how you slice it, Buddy comes out on top.
Every drummer today owes a debt to Buddy.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
You have to add up the total career achievements of Buddy.
Decade after decade of playing at a super high consistent level.
He commanded the stage. His quirks were part of his charm.
He never stopped. He had heart attacks and he didn't even slow down!
His ability was above human.
Im sorry, but no matter how you slice it, Buddy comes out on top.
Every drummer today owes a debt to Buddy.
There is a video of Buddy playing absolutely incredible in his later years. But he looked awful, almost like he was deathly ill and ready to keel over. Like you said, he had something almost supernatural about him that allowed him to play at such a high level no matter the obstacle.
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2015, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Never saw him and band live, but I TRIED to play along with his LP tracks on the West Side Story album when I was learning back in 1966 or so. I loved how he drove the big band. I searched this site a bit, and couldn't find this, so I apologize if this recording of Buddy cussing out his band has been posted before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omID1prJHFo
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2015, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwearnohats View Post
There are a number of drummers alive today who would absolutely smoke him with their repertoire of ability and their musicality, their open-mindedness, and their creativity.
You can't put something like that out there and not back it up.

And when did open-mindedness define musical greatness?

Another jazz great, Louis Armstrong, had an intense dislike of bebop - did that make him any less great?
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  #35  
Old 04-29-2015, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Read an autobiography of Buddy Rich written by Mel Torme. He was a quirky guy for sure and I think even his friends had a hard time figuring him out sometimes. I had the pleasure of seeing him in person in 1978. I was, and am still in awe. The absolute best in my opinion.
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2015, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I don't remember too much of Buddy's personality, I can't recall ever really "liking him" very much particularly, but he sure could play the hell out of those drums...
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  #37  
Old 04-29-2015, 07:10 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by Hewitt2 View Post
You can't put something like that out there and not back it up.
Ignorance of the existence of world-class drummers is not my fault.

Here are five drummers off the top of my head who are either technically or musically equal or superior, or both. Although musicality is subjective, so I don't really care about that side of the equation given the opinions on musicality I often hear from the under-skilled:

Virgil Donati
Thomas Lang
Mike Mangini
Dave Weckl
Vinnie Colaiuta
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  #38  
Old 04-29-2015, 07:40 AM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

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Originally Posted by iwearnohats View Post
Although musicality is subjective, so I don't really care about that side of the equation given the opinions on musicality I often hear from the under-skilled:
You don't care about the musicality side of the equation? Really? Without it, all the technical facility in the world counts for nothing.

I can't believe you're attempting to have a serious debate while being so dismissive of the single most fundamental element of all. I just genuinely don't believe we can start making any sort of a comparison, especially with a guy like Buddy, without caring about that side of the equation. Ignoring musicality does a huge disservice to his entire body of work and does little more than drag the entire argument down to a pure mechanical level. And that's just not what music or musicianship is about.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 04-29-2015 at 09:38 AM.
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  #39  
Old 04-29-2015, 02:43 PM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

I said musicality is subjective. You might not like Dave Weckl's sound, but I do. Does that make you right? No, it means your opinion is that you don't like him (I'm not saying whether you do or don't). And that is why I said I don't care.

With that being said, I like how you ignored my list of drummers who are better than Buddy Rich. Dismissing the point I was making because you are unable to see the big picture is poor form.
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  #40  
Old 04-29-2015, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Poll: Buddy Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwearnohats View Post
With that being said, I like how you ignored my list of drummers who are better than Buddy Rich. Dismissing the point I was making because you are unable to see the big picture is poor form.
Hold your horses, I wasn't dismissing the list you presented at all. It was actually seeing a guy like Thomas Lang on your list that prompted my line of thought to begin with.

Ultimately, I see why you'd want to ignore something as fundamental as musicality when pitching that particular example against a guy like Rich. Because it's the only way you could ever make a direct comparison between the two and still be able to maintain a straight face while you do it.

Lang is a technical monster. I have no argument there, but you're kidding yourself if you think that that one narrow element alone makes him "better" than a guy who was at the pinnacle of his craft for so long. It was as much the musical expression that put all the greats of the past (including Buddy) in the revered positions in the history of the instrument that they enjoy today. To ignore it in order to score some points in what amounts to nothing more than a schoolyard pissing contest is just a fools errand.

Look, I really have no issue with your list and my point is not to find examples to diminish it. Lang just stood out of the crowd is all and I thought he in particular, made a great case study in exactly why musicality should be considered. I won't deny that those guys have built on what came before and taken it to heights that would have been hard to imagine by the likes of Krupa and Buddy in their heyday. I've long said that Vinnie is the most "complete" drummer in the history of the modern drumset. Of everyone that's ever picked up sticks, no one seems to have a broader understanding of musical style and the ability to express that variety, than him. But I'd never be so bold as to turn a blind eye to the very reason he enjoys that position in the first place. He's that complete purely because his very musicality allows him to tastefully apply the technicality. The latter is there to serve the former. And in Vinnie's case it most certainly does. But without musicality, a drummer doesn't deserve to be on any list to begin with. There's just no way one can dismiss it out of hand and still make a serious argument. Take that criteria away and all we're left with is glorified WFD. Hardly a compelling argument for well rounded virtuosity.

No mate, it's not a matter of ignoring your list at all. It's a matter of defending the most vital element of them all. The very reason to bother to develop technical facility to begin with. It simply should be taken into account, as it's the embodiment of what we do and why we do it. You can't just chose to ignore it for the purpose of trying to win an argument. That would be the ultimate example of being "unable to see the big picture" as you put it and IMHO for a musician to suggest we ignore something so vitally fundamental because it suits his argument to do so, would be the ultimate in poor form here.
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