Elvin Jones - Page 2

vadrum · #41 01-06-2007, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixmejesus

Yeah he's a great drummer, but he sounds just like any other great Jazz drummer.

sounds JUST like any other great jazz drummer?!

man, ron carter said it best when interviewed on elvins jones' video "different drummer: elvin jones"

"in order to understand elvin's contribution to the drums as an intstrument, first you have to listen to a record of a pre-elvin jones drummer, listen to an elvin jones record, and then listen to a record of a post elvin jones drummer."

to say that he sounds just like any other great jazz drummer shows a lack of understanding of the history of drums as an instrument.

vadrum · #42 01-06-2007, 04:11 AM

my first experience w/ elvin was in the library media center @ VCU. i grabbed a copy of live @ birdland and proceeded to check out afro blue. OMG, i had NO clue what i was in for. prior to that my jazz listening included max, art, buddy, gene, and philly joe. but elvin, elvin was a whole different thing all together. i dont think my head was right for quite a few days after i heard that recording. coming out of mccoys piano solo, elvin kept the intensity high, and i really thought to myself that the music could not get any more intense @ that moment. then, john coltrane started his solo and the intensity jumped about 20 knotches. my jaw literaly hit the floor. loved elvin, and that band, ever since. i didnt know jazz could be played that way. man i heard that band had the white collar business men standing on the tables going nuts in the club during their shows.

the drumming world lost a treasure when elvin passed.

the gayge · #43 01-11-2007, 06:10 AM

I definitely agree with almost all of the above choices. I love all of Elvin's work to death, but my top three are most definitely the following:

Resolution from A Love Supreme, Afro-blue from Live at Birdland, and almost more than any others Contemplation from The Real McCoy. You never hear mid-tempo's played like that.
-aj

dawg · #44 01-11-2007, 08:27 PM

no other drummer sounds like elvin...i saw him in 1990 with the jazz machine at a college where i was in the 6 o'clock big band.absolutely tremendous.from the rumbling triplets and loose feel down to a whisper with brushes...and quite the comedian too. he actually came on stage before the band and was cracking jokes! you can almost always recognize elvin when you hear him even if youv'e never heard the record before.that is STYLE and very few great drummers have that recognizability.

rendezvous_drummer · #45 01-12-2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the gayge

I definitely agree with almost all of the above choices. I love all of Elvin's work to death, but my top three are most definitely the following:

Resolution from A Love Supreme, Afro-blue from Live at Birdland, and almost more than any others Contemplation from The Real McCoy. You never hear mid-tempo's played like that.
-aj

That album is unbelievable! Elvin was something than a great drummer, he was also a very good guitarist. Surprising that he had time to become the drummer he was and still have time to be able to play a mean guitar.

Sheridan · #46 01-12-2007, 05:30 AM

Elvin is without a doubt one of the greats. The most important thing about him is his style: you could come into a recording of Elvin and know within three seconds that it's Elvin Jones on the drums. There are only a few instrumentalists, let alone drummers, that one can say that of. One record that I don't think anyone has mentioned is the Elvin Jones: Live At The Village Vanguard album. They play a 15 minute version of "Mister Jones" on there with Hannibal on trumpet, George Coleman on sax and WIlbur Little on bass and they're just burning!

Oh, as for his gear, here's how his sound progressed: In his earlier days, he had a loosely tuned wooden snare, larger bass drum (20"), and older zildjians. The main things that changed in his sound in his later days were his cymbals (in which he commonly used Istanbul cymbals or newer K's), metal snare instead of wood, an 18" bass drum and tuned it tightly instead of the relatively loosely tuned bass drum of before, and he added more toms and cymbals in general.

Mook · #47 01-12-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixmejesus

Yeah he's a great drummer, but he sounds just like any other great Jazz drummer.

That's the weirdest thing I've ever read, how exactly does Elvin sound like Buddy, Gene, Max Roach, Philly Joe, Billy Cobham or Tony Williams (the list is endless), he sounds nothing like any of them but still probably influenced them all at one time or another. To quote Miles Davis "That cat could light a fire under the music like no other motherf*cker!".

dawg · #48 01-13-2007, 01:23 AM

how 'bout wayne shorter's "night dreamer" cd? does a great solo on "black nile."

jazzin' · #49 02-12-2007, 12:12 PM

I'm surprised no-ones mentioned 'Inception' by McCoy Tyner. (unless I missed it and someone has already). A must have album.

The space that he would create throughout his playing, even if relatively busy or complex was simply astounding. Of course it goes without saying that his ride playing and use of the second note of the triplet was a large part of his brilliant sound.

More later when I've got more time.

syoshii · #50 02-13-2007, 04:59 AM

I would recommend Tribute To John Coltrane "A Love Supreme" by Elvin's special quartet featuring Wynton Marsalis (Sony). It was recorded live at PIT INN in Tokyo in 1992 and maybe released only in Japan, but this is the must for Elvin fans! I think this is one of his best performances recorded in his career. I guess you can get it at amazon.com or GEMM.

I saw his performance at the same Jazz club in Tokyo, PIT INN, in January 2004, just 5 months before his death. To tell the truth, it was one of my saddest moment in my life. He became very small and thin. He couldn't walk without assistance, even looked like he needed a great effort just to move his fingers. He managed to sit behind the drum set, helped by his wife Keiko, and started to play. But he couldn't keep the tempo with his high-hat and ride cymbal. I couldn't hear his "roar" at all during his play. When he hit the crash cymbal, the cymbal didn't move at all and instead the stick was almost dropped from his hand. Apparently he was feeling great pain in playing drums. I wanted to shout out "No, Elvin, just go to the hospital right NOW!" He was supposed to perform 2 sets a night, but he could only play one set. Keiko told us that he suffered a serious stroke and fell into critical condition just before his visit to Tokyo, but he insisted to play at PIT INN, where he has been playing in winter every year, so he came over to Tokyo. And after that week's performances (he was to play there for a week) he was going to make more thorough physical examination at a hospital somewhere (she didn't identify it, but probably Kyushu Island, Japan, which is Keiko's birthplace) and spend there for a couple of months. So, after that, he made his last performance at Yoshi's in April.
After his death I heard that Elvin played in London in October 2003 and he was all right then. So I guess he suffered the stroke right after that, probably in November.

I've talked with Elvin a couple of times. He was powerful (I still remember his handshake!), and at the same time very gentle, with a big smile all the time. I miss him very much.

CooManChu · #51 02-13-2007, 08:57 PM

Great story - thanks for sharing it.

jazzin' · #52 04-07-2007, 06:11 AM

I think only one person has mentioned arguably one of, if not his best, Elvin's great playing on Larry Young's album Unity. I feel he hit a peak with his rolling triplet and time shifting phrases on this amazing record!
Truly a classic!
I must agree with Duke though as well, Afro Blue on After the Rain is painful it's so good.

bballdrummer34 · #53 04-11-2007, 03:43 AM

THE REAL McCOY !!!!!!!!!! Elvin is the CAT!!!!!!

bballdrummer34 · #54 04-14-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzin'

I think only one person has mentioned arguably one of, if not his best, Elvin's great playing on Larry Young's album Unity. I feel he hit a peak with his rolling triplet and time shifting phrases on this amazing record!
Truly a classic!
I must agree with Duke though as well, Afro Blue on After the Rain is painful it's so good.

I dont know man what about ALLLLL the Coltrane stuff? A Love Supreme? Innerstellar Space?

jazzgregg · #55 04-14-2007, 11:14 PM

Arguing about what Elvin recording is the best is like arguing about what food is the best at a gourmet meal.

G

CyclopseSlayer · #56 04-14-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballdrummer34

I dont know man what about ALLLLL the Coltrane stuff? A Love Supreme? Innerstellar Space?

That's Rashied Ali rippin' it up on Interstellar Space

jazzin' · #57 04-15-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgregg

Arguing about what Elvin recording is the best is like arguing about what food is the best at a gourmet meal.

G

Haha very true! It is foolish to say the least to try and pick his best. He tears it up from his Sonny Rollins recordings to his very last recordings! Amazing.

Bball, you're right, to say that one is the best is a bit crazy. Theres just too many to choose from. All his stuff with Coltrane is incredible. 'Coltrane Plays the Blues', 'Crescent', 'Ballads' theres simply too many. 'Unity' just happens to be one of my favourites. Monks Dream is Elvin heaven.

bballdrummer34 · #58 04-16-2007, 02:15 AM

I knew that was Rasheed i dont know why i said that, im sorry haha

bballdrummer34 · #59 04-16-2007, 08:26 AM

O and dont worry i love Unity too. I've been listenin to it non stop for an entire month

bballdrummer34 · #60 04-17-2007, 06:04 AM

Did and any of you know that Elvin feathered on the up beats, more so than the downbeats? Try it sometime if you haven't it may open up your playing a bit more. And as far as learning the rolling triplet feel, i think it's necessary.

dawg · #61 04-18-2007, 05:12 AM

i think elvin's rolling triplets was his calling card. and i'd bet that bonham heard a lot of elvin coming up.

CyclopseSlayer · #62 04-18-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawg

i think elvin's rolling triplets was his calling card. and i'd bet that bonham heard a lot of elvin coming up.

Don't forget Mitch Mitchell in that, obviously he's influenced by many aspects of Elvin's playing, but his hand and foot triplets had that beautiful rubbery feel like Elvin's

bballdrummer34 · #63 04-25-2007, 04:47 PM

No drummer that has ever heard him can escape elvin's inlfuence.

CooManChu · #64 04-25-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclopseSlayer

Don't forget Mitch Mitchell in that, obviously he's influenced by many aspects of Elvin's playing, but his hand and foot triplets had that beautiful rubbery feel like Elvin's

Yeah, it probably would have been pretty hard to come up as a drummer during that time and not be checking out Elvin Jones and Max Roach and Clyde Stubblefield and Blakey and guys like that.

Steve Holmes · #65 04-26-2007, 10:15 AM

Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil pretty much embodies jazz drumming for me. Best jazz cymbal sound ever. Some great instances...
roll..roll...ROLL..ROLL...FLAMCRASH!

That CD come with me if I'm stranded on an island.

Jazztree.O · #66 04-29-2007, 02:51 AM

I love his work with Wayne Shorter!

Especially "Juju" will always be one of my favourites!

caprisun3484 · #67 04-29-2007, 03:37 PM

i really like Juju too
it's pretty much a toss up for me between that and Speak No Evil when it comes to Wayne Shorter and Elvin Jones

crumbdrums · #68 05-25-2007, 02:42 AM

Am I the only one who thinks that Elvin overplayed, particularly on "A Love Supreme"? The stuff he did sounds amazingly difficult, but it really sounds like too much, especialy for a jazz record. Honestly, I don't think a drum solo has a place on a jazz record at all. Granted, he was clearly talented, and far better than I could ever hope to be, but I don't think he played well within the context of the song.

Sorry if I upset anyone. That was certainly not my goal. Also, if I came off as condescending, I apologize. In fact, on the contrary, I will be the first to admit that I am largely ignorant to jazz music and jazz drumming. This is precisely why I would like to why know no one else has mentioned this.

jangus · #69 05-25-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crumbdrums

Am I the only one who thinks that Elvin overplayed, particularly on "A Love Supreme"? The stuff he did sounds amazingly difficult, but it really sounds like too much, especialy for a jazz record. Honestly, I don't think a drum solo has a place on a jazz record at all. Granted, he was clearly talented, and far better than I could ever hope to be, but I don't think he played well within the context of the song.

Sorry if I upset anyone. That was certainly not my goal. Also, if I came off as condescending, I apologize. In fact, on the contrary, I will be the first to admit that I am largely ignorant to jazz music and jazz drumming. This is precisely why I would like to why know no one else has mentioned this.

Are you sure you're a drummer?

jonescrusher · #70 05-25-2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crumbdrums

Am I the only one who thinks that Elvin overplayed, particularly on "A Love Supreme"? The stuff he did sounds amazingly difficult, but it really sounds like too much, especialy for a jazz record. Honestly, I don't think a drum solo has a place on a jazz record at all. Granted, he was clearly talented, and far better than I could ever hope to be, but I don't think he played well within the context of the song.

Sorry if I upset anyone. That was certainly not my goal. Also, if I came off as condescending, I apologize. In fact, on the contrary, I will be the first to admit that I am largely ignorant to jazz music and jazz drumming. This is precisely why I would like to why know no one else has mentioned this.

You've answered your own question there. It's because, as you say, you are ignorant to jazz that you're not getting his drum part.

That said, even if you were informed and you still felt the same way, then fair enough. An opinion is to be respected.

crumbdrums · #71 05-25-2007, 03:47 AM

Thank you Jones. I thought that might be it.

jonescrusher · #72 05-25-2007, 02:21 PM

As you'll learn more about jazz drumming, and the importance of the drums as a solo instrument you'll understand the 'mechanics' behind what makes an Elvin or Tony solo initially sound so intimidating. Elvin for example favoured using three beat phrases, but could start these phrases anywhere on the 4/4 bar, amongst many other transformations.

bballdrummer34 · #73 05-25-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crumbdrums

Am I the only one who thinks that Elvin overplayed, particularly on "A Love Supreme"? The stuff he did sounds amazingly difficult, but it really sounds like too much, especialy for a jazz record. Honestly, I don't think a drum solo has a place on a jazz record at all. Granted, he was clearly talented, and far better than I could ever hope to be, but I don't think he played well within the context of the song.

Sorry if I upset anyone. That was certainly not my goal. Also, if I came off as condescending, I apologize. In fact, on the contrary, I will be the first to admit that I am largely ignorant to jazz music and jazz drumming. This is precisely why I would like to why know no one else has mentioned this.

You kind of made my heart drop ... Obviously a tear has never left your eye after listening to it. I read some of the book A Love Supreme. If you knew what it all meant you would not have said that. Those statements sometimes make me want to stop what i do and get a desk job. But it's ok go back and listen to it some more. See if you can feel the aurora coming out of your player. Its really strong man real strong.

Sorry if i got dark, just that piece means a lot to me.

foursticks · #74 05-25-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballdrummer34

You kind of made my heart drop ... Obviously a tear has never left your eye after listening to it. I read some of the book A Love Supreme. If you knew what it all meant you would not have said that. Those statements sometimes make me want to stop what i do and get a desk job. But it's ok go back and listen to it some more. See if you can feel the aurora coming out of your player. Its really strong man real strong.

Sorry if i got dark, just that piece means a lot to me.

I'm definatly with you on that. I can understand why someone would think that Elvin overplayed, but the piece was Coltrane's gift to God and it's meant to be epic in every sense. Without Elvin's thundering cymbals, intense snare work and his solos of pure energy and passion A Love Supreme wouldn't be A Love Supreme.

Besides jazz isn't all about playing softly. Jazz can be louder and more intense than metal when it wants to be.

crumbdrums · #75 05-25-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks

I'm definatly with you on that. I can understand why someone would think that Elvin overplayed, but the piece was Coltrane's gift to God and it's meant to be epic in every sense. Without Elvin's thundering cymbals, intense snare work and his solos of pure energy and passion A Love Supreme wouldn't be A Love Supreme.

Besides jazz isn't all about playing softly. Jazz can be louder and more intense than metal when it wants to be.

Sorry to get to both you guys. Like I said, I'm pretty ignorant to jazz music in general right now. Don't get me wrong, the music is excellent, but like Jones said, I just need to listen to more jazz as to understand his drumming, and the music he drums to.

foursticks · #76 01-03-2008, 08:53 PM

Two words for you guys: SUN SHIP

Oh sweet cymbals of Elvin - that album is something else. Elvin is as if someone's injected him with pure energy - it's like listening to an lcd trip. He absolutely kills, I mean everything he does is pure genius, but this is truly him on top form. Especially Amen and Sun Ship and like someone earlier mentioned - he's EXPLODING.
It's one of the last recordings that quartet ever did together, and you can see how Coltrane's moving into a more free style and how that quartet were so perfect together. I mean they (according to McCoy Tyner) were able to make a whole composition out of just two notes. It's unreal. I can't recommend this album enough, even if you're not into the 'free' thing it's worth it purely for Elvin.

bballdrummer34 · #77 01-04-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks

Two words for you guys: SUN SHIP

Oh sweet cymbals of Elvin - that album is something else. Elvin is as if someone's injected him with pure energy - it's like listening to an lcd trip. He absolutely kills, I mean everything he does is pure genius, but this is truly him on top form. Especially Amen and Sun Ship and like someone earlier mentioned - he's EXPLODING.
It's one of the last recordings that quartet ever did together, and you can see how Coltrane's moving into a more free style and how that quartet were so perfect together. I mean they (according to McCoy Tyner) were able to make a whole composition out of just two notes. It's unreal. I can't recommend this album enough, even if you're not into the 'free' thing it's worth it purely for Elvin.

Is that the name of the album?

foursticks · #78 01-04-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bballdrummer34

Is that the name of the album?

Yes. Trust me it's worth every penny. The quartet's last recording and a stunning and breath-taking sign off.

bballdrummer34 · #79 01-04-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foursticks

Yes. Trust me it's worth every penny. The quartet's last recording and a stunning and breath-taking sign off.

Looks like i'll be ascending tonight ...

foursticks · #80 01-04-2008, 01:16 AM

Lol - tell me what you think once you get it, I'm in awe of this album. Also, anyone heard Rip, Rig And Panic by Rahsaan Roland Kirk? Elvin on drums - brilliant album epecially title track and From Bechet, Byas and Fats.