Heel down doubles

[pt3407]

I’m trying to get better at heal down doubles and I’ve been pushing the tempo in 3-5 bpm increments. I’m at 125 bpm and playing within a triplet subdivision.
I’m using a speed cobra from tama. 40% of the time when I’m trying to play a double heel down within the triplet subdivision my foot will end up not playing the forst note of the double or if I do manage to get the double out it may end up being too loud. What can I do?

[AzHeat]

Why are you doing this heel down in the first place? It definitely takes more effort to play doubles heel down at speed. I was rudely awakened to this fact a while back after being an exclusively heel down player for decades. Had to switch to gain speed and consistency.

[MasterBlaster]

I can't figure out how to lift my heel w/o having to lean back.

:(

[aaronmcd]

I've been trying heel up recently and have a lot less control it seems... But also same issue as above, I tend to have to lean back. My drum teacher only plays heel up - he just keeps his toes down and doesn't have to lean back. I guess if you always bury the beater this could work? Also I can keep my left foot down on the hi hat pedal unless I'm playing open hi hat. I've been practicing both heels up and keeping one or more toes down. Not sure how "correct" this is but it keeps me balanced without leaning back.

Edit: one nice thing about heel up is continuous 16ths. I can do multiple sets of 4 or 5 continuous 16ths at 110+ heel up, but heel down the same pace gets very tiring

[toddbishop]

Practice doing every note as a full stroke-- every note starts with the beater all the way back, and ends with the beater all the way back. That means you're at rest with the beater all the way back, too. It's more about doing a fast motion than it is using force to play the note. Play everything that way for awhile and your doubles will start happening. Learn a basic samba groove and practice along with this for awhile.

[beyondbetrayal]

I used to rest my left foot alot because I would fall forward unless i leaned back.

Seat height being lower helped with this, but mostly posture... Look in a mirror or video yourself... Sit STRAIGHT up. Not leaning back, but if you hunch forward you can't play heel up as easy.

Sit a bit back on the throne too. If your an edge rester that can cause this too.

lastly, core exercises and situps help.. Try things like hovering your feet one inch off the ground while watching tv, sitting in the passenger seat of a car.... This will all help your balance and muscles needed.

[MasterBlaster]

Playing guitar sure is a lot less taxing!!!

[mrfingers]

Pt, just a question: what kind of music are you looking to play? I would think it would have a lot to do with your “need” for speedy doubles and chosen technique. I play lots of classic rock and blues shuffles and play it all heel down, just sayin’.

[newoldie]

I play almost entirely heel down, blues and rock primarily (Jazz would be a very comfortable fit with me with this style as well).

I can do doubles heel down, but it took some work to get these ready "on demand", so I continue to work regularly on bass drum beater control; otherwise I find the coordination can diminish- just like stick control.

Volume is not much an issue as I have strong ankles and calf muscles for volume when needed and I'm usually mic'd live.

I'll play heel up for parts of some songs, but have some lower back issues that preclude using this technique regularly, plus I've not refined the skill to the point it could replace heel down.

Collin Bailey's "Bass Drum Control" is one of the instructional book classics that I use regularly and have found increases/increased my skill/coordination on the BD.

[mrfingers]

Lately I've been using the doubles between FT and kick-sort of faking double kick pedals/drums. It's a good way to practice doubles "on demand." Start a double stroke fill on the toms and end up with two doubles on FT and kick each or kick and FT for a total 8 notes. Or double stroke roll using kick and high toms to FT. Easier to do with the left hand and right foot until you get the feel or independence in the right hand with the right foot(which seem to want to get together.)

[rebonn]

It seems to me a lot of factors dictate foot position. Throne height, how far back from the kit you are and angle of the pedal. I play both heel down and heel up. Any type of speed or power is usually heel up while heel down is used for quieter things with speed, although heel up is only about a half inch. In the past it's been all heel up with the heel being much higher probably due to sitting higher.

[Mastiff]

I think you do need to be able to balance properly on your seat while holding your legs out over the pedals. Trying to have something hold your leg up is at odds with being able to play fast, IMO. You can mess with spring tension a bit too, so you can rest a little without the beater laying against the head, but if you push that too far you will lose because of having to fight the spring.

If you aren't doing double bass, it's a little less challenging since you can stabilize more with your HH foot, but you want to be able to work that too. I'm still working on simultaneously doing complex/fast BD with HH and keeping it as clean as it is with the HH idle.

[pt3407]

Originally Posted by mrfingers

Pt, just a question: what kind of music are you looking to play? I would think it would have a lot to do with your “need” for speedy doubles and chosen technique. I play lots of classic rock and blues shuffles and play it all heel down, just sayin’.

I’m looking to play jazz music. Thanks for the replies so far guys!