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  #1  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:45 AM
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Default Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Article: https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/gibson-guitars-debt/

From the article: "Gibson still pulls annual revenues north of $1 billion. But their revenue does not come close to covering their loan debts..."
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:26 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

I personally hope that this happens sooner, rather than later.

My hope is that a non-moronic company manages to secure the rights, the custom shop stays in business, the master-builders keep their jobs, and we no longer see a ridiculous price tag on standard Les Pauls.

This past decade has been an absolute nightmare, and forced me to recommend that people either go custom, or go vintage.

Don't get me started on the F'ing 2015 head-stock.



Crap, now I'm triggered.

Robo-tuners... Grrrrr!!!
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

They'll probably pull through this one as well, as they have many times before when these headlines have made the rounds.

But there's no doubt they're not the giant they once were, and they've had some serious quality control issues for a while now. I'm guessing at the very least, they will be trimming off some fat, possibly moving a lot more production out of the country.

We're seeing a lot more boutique builders (Suhr probably being the most prominent example right now) making guitars that are matching the price of the higher-end Gibsons, but offering products that are consistently being hailed as far superior. They're presumably able to do this by selling direct to players and not going through a massive chain of distributors and stores, which removes a big part of the end cost.

It's interesting to see that Fender still seems to be doing really well though, even though they should in theory be struggling with the same issues as Gibson.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post

It's interesting to see that Fender still seems to be doing really well though, even though they should in theory be struggling with the same issues as Gibson.
Fender management is probably superior. After studying Fender from afar, other than some wacky color schemes in the 80s and some failed models, they didn't really stray too far away from what they did best: affordable guitars - which is what Leo Fender did when he created the Telecaster in the first place.

Gibson's funny robot-tuning system, and whatever electronics side-projects they attempted to show off at CES instead of NAMM, just goes to show that their management isn't interested in making quality guitars anymore. So I agree, Gibson should shut itself down, go bankrupt. Then re-emerge as a custom shop dedicated to the betterment of their legacy models that everybody pines after. They don't have to make anything new. Just make what they make better than the boutique designers. Harley Davidson probably went through the same thing as well, and look at them today: motorcycle sales are very good and they crank out a good product.

Gretsch drums have religiously stuck to what they do best, and they've come out on top so far. Ludwig Drums are also giving the lesser brands a run for their money. Both drum companies, and Fender realize they already have a sought-after product. Just keep finding new ways to get those products to the hands of the customers without breaking their wallets, right? Gibson could learn a thing or two from the other three.
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:40 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
It's interesting to see that Fender still seems to be doing really well though, even though they should in theory be struggling with the same issues as Gibson.
Fender is in the same situation. There are warehouses with tens-of-thousands of guitars sitting in them from 2012-2016.

FWIW, Gretsch USA (the real Gretsch) is akin to the Gibson custom shop. The only complaint about Gibson CS guitars is that they cost $5000.

Last edited by KamaK; 02-19-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Gibson released a statement in response to the recent articles about their potential upcoming bankruptcy: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300599834.html

From the article: "We have been monetizing assets like stock holdings, real property and business segments that could not achieve the level of success we expected. By monetizing these assets, we can reduce debt and generate funds to contribute to business segments that are thriving. It is important to our business to get back to the financial success we had to achieve the best financial terms in the refinancing of our company," he stated.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:11 AM
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mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Fender is in the same situation. There are warehouses with tens-of-thousands of guitars sitting in them from 2012-2016.
Why doe Fender have so many guitars in storage?
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
It's interesting to see that Fender still seems to be doing really well though, even though they should in theory be struggling with the same issues as Gibson.

Fender's IPO was also pulled several years ago when Wall Street investors indicated they felt Fender wasn't worth as much as Fender thought it's stock was worth. In part because Fender's relationship with Guitar Center, and Guitar Center's poor financial health. GC owes Fender a ton of money, and Fender sales are highly dependent on GC continuing to buy.

This lead to Fender selling off a ton of assets (i.e. Gretsch, LP, Toca to DW, and some other brads to other buyers) over the last several years.

Fender is NOT doing well, they're just managing their disasters.
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2018, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

https://www.gearnews.com/gibson-sued...cal-50million/

Gibson is being sued by Tronical for $50million over e-tuner technology

Quote:
The background here is that Henry Juszkiewicz wanted to innovate the Gibson guitar brand – in the vein of Apple computers, perhaps – leading to some controversial decisions about what the company thought guitarists needed. Whether it was his personal decision or not, the technology ended up on Gibson guitars like the Les Paul and the SG. Unfortunately, was that not many players wanted them in the first place and either avoided the guitars that came with them as standard or just removed them and fitted regular tuners instead.

Based in Hamburg, Germany, Tronical has now announced that is suing Gibson for $50 million and that the action has been pending before the Hamburg State Court since December 2017.

They haven’t discussed the case with the press yet at the time of writing, so we still do not know any of the details of the case, so stay posted for updates.
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

And it finally happened: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...tcy/567821002/

BTW, last time I heard, Gibson owned (and moth-balled) Slingerland.
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  #11  
Old 05-01-2018, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Chapter 11 is simply a re-organization strategy, and doesn't always spell the end of a company. Even if it did, someone (in better financial health) will undoubtedly acquire the Gibson brand.

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Old 05-01-2018, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

*Disclaimer: My posts and any information contained are strictly my own thoughts and opinions and for discussion purposes only. They are NOT financial or investment advice. Consult your financial and/or tax-advisor before making investment decisions.
I need to post this because of my non-music occupation.


Last time I checked, Gibson's coupon rate on their bonds was 8.875% and they were trading below 80% of par value, creating a potential yield of 11.09375% along with a rating well into the junk category.

I'd suspect bond-holders are more eager/willing to restructure the debt than those creditors who do not hold bonds. If the bonds were restructured at a 5.9375% coupon rate (approx 1/3 reduction) the yield after taxation (depending on trading value), could still be potentially be better than muni's. It'll be interesting to see where the bond rates and Gibson as company finally ends up.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Gibson files for bankruptcy to ditch electronics, focus on guitars

According to the press release "The Company's Gibson Innovations business, which is largely outside of the U.S. and independent of the Musical Instruments business, will be wound down." While the headphones are likely done, other elements like its Gibson and Epiphone guitars, as well as KRK and Cerwin Vega studio monitors and loudspeakers will continue on. Hopefully, that includes its digital recorder-embued guitar cable.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2018, 04:36 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Article: "Gibson Could Soon Face Bankruptcy..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Fender is in the same situation. There are warehouses with tens-of-thousands of guitars sitting in them from 2012-2016.

FWIW, Gretsch USA (the real Gretsch) is akin to the Gibson custom shop. The only complaint about Gibson CS guitars is that they cost $5000.
Fender caught a lot of hate on Facebook when they announced their new American Standard Freedom Eagle No Helmet Law guitar or whatever they called it. Lots of people complaining about lack of innovation or pointless innovation, high prices, etc.

I don't know where I stand. The guitar is something I pick at when I can't drum, I'm not good at it but it's kinda fun and relaxing. So I'd like to replace my Fender American Standard but it's almost twice the price now.

It's very confusing. It seems like everyone buys musical instruments now, yet the prices are crazy high and I'm always hearing these places are going out of business.
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