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  #1  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:38 PM
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Default A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Saw this pic up on Facebook this morning; Never been to a NAMM show, so I really do not know what is expected of participants.
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2018, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

This is exactly why creative marketing works so well.
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

There's a story here I sure would like to hear.
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Old 01-29-2018, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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There's a story here I sure would like to hear.
The company is known for producing large "gong drums", isn't it ?
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

I guess the lesson here is you have to control your visitors.
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

I have seen some amazing snares from them.. Could be marketing. I bet you went to their website :P
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

It was at the Soultone booth.

They let too many drummers play solos with wild abandon and got shut down.
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

This was the email NAMM send out after the booth shut down:

Quote:
In order to keep The NAMM Show a business-friendly environment
please make sure you adhere to our sound policies.
Performances are not allowed in booths
Product testing is meant to be in short duration and not at maximum sound level (85 db max)
If testing products, please keep sound to a conversational level
Please remember that booth demos are intended to be very short
When sound level is in question, please refer to the exhibitor as booths in violation of the sound policy can be shut down
Attendee badges can be removed if exceeding the sound level maximum
The problem is many smaller manufactures want maximum exposure to complete with the big companies, so they let people go wild at their booths.

Though in my opinion, all that does is drive business people away from their booths.
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

I'll bet it was this nickle over brass drum set:

https://youtu.be/MUYqUFfNUUw?t=2

Very nice, but very pricey.
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2018, 10:20 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

I'm sure they were warned 2 or 3 times, which is pretty standard. If they ignored the warnings then they should be banned for a year so that perhaps their arrogance and lack of respect can be worked on.

They got what they deserved.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:31 PM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
I'm sure they were warned 2 or 3 times, which is pretty standard. If they ignored the warnings then they should be banned for a year so that perhaps their arrogance and lack of respect can be worked on.

They got what they deserved.
Anf posted in social media all about it. They claim they werenít making any more noise than anyone else and they were shut down more for the volume of people visiting their booth than the volume of the playing.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Sorry..."volume of people?" wouldn't that be up to security to clear the isles and keep the customers safe?
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2018, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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They got what they deserved.
I would like to consult their google analytics and see for myself whether all of this translated into increased sales or not.

They sure make some of the better-sounding brass snares I have heard in a while.

As for the volume at NAMM, well I was not there so any comment on my part would be worthless.
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  #14  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:10 PM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Sorry..."volume of people?" wouldn't that be up to security to clear the isles and keep the customers safe?
Iím not sure. They posted extensively about the issue on social media.
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  #15  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Why don't they just provide a complimentary pair of professional foam ear plugs with each convention pass ? Problem solved... or no ?
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

NAMM seemed to be especially loud this year, and I didn't see the noise police once. Many guilty booths, mostly the smaller companies.
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2018, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Just like slapping a Parental Advisory label on an album, it's only going to interest people more to learn a booth was shut down and that the company embraced it. It gives them a bit of a rebel edge. They're a small company with quite a reputation already, so people will look to stick up for them. I'm guessing it interested more people than it turned off, and can't imagine it will cost them any sales.

Good for them for using it to their advantage. They've got some really neat stuff and some really far out stuff. They'll continue to do well.
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Perhaps; I'm sure there are those that like the FU attitude and break the rules. I see it in a few other operations. People are there to talk business and concentrate. Tough to do when you have wanna B Bonhams cruising the isles,looking for something to beat on.
Rules are put in place as a common courtesy, much like "no smoking"..but you still get the clowns that think they are above it all
F THEM!
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  #19  
Old 01-30-2018, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
NAMM seemed to be especially loud this year, and I didn't see the noise police once. Many guilty booths, mostly the smaller companies.
The drum section of the hall was so loud you could barely talk over it. While I understand the policy, no one followed it. There's a reason earplugs were handed out at the info kiosks.
The fact that this one booth got closed tells me there's a bigger story at work here.
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Old 01-30-2018, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Wow that NoB drum set looked amazing!
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  #21  
Old 01-30-2018, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

No surprise in there being a "Soultone" input to the noise ban...they have a bit of history at other trade shows.....

As for A&F, just random average stuff at extortionate prices for well-heeled hipsters, the OCDP of 2018.....it'll pass.....

Mick
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2018, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
NAMM seemed to be especially loud this year, and I didn't see the noise police once. Many guilty booths, mostly the smaller companies.
Probably not the loudest show, but Saturday and especially Thursday for some reason were right up there. It's just about always the smaller companies that are the worst offenders.

Re A&F, I stopped by their booth, before the show so I could hear what all the buzz is about, and I didn't think their drums sounded good at all. They have the retro look, but that seems to be the extent of the appeal. Nobody with a set of ears could really think they'd be usable. That was my observation last year as well.

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Old 01-31-2018, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Saturday and especially Thursday for some reason were right up there.
Those were the two days I attended.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Probably not the loudest show, but Saturday and especially Thursday for some reason were right up there. It's just about always the smaller companies that are the worst offenders.

Re A&F, I stopped by their booth, before the show so I could hear what all the buzz is about, and I didn't think their drums sounded good at all. They have the retro look, but that seems to be the extent of the appeal. Nobody with a set of ears could really think they'd be usable. That was my observation last year as well.

Bermuda
I agree that some of it is kinda out there, like the pancake snare or ginormous 22 inch snoms or a 4x6 brass snare (https://www.anfdrumco.com/collection...aw-brass-snare), but the regular raw brass 14x5 is very useable as much as any other high-end brass or cob out there and can do lower tunings better than most.

I think at some point it extends beyond regular drumming and goes into newer trends in percussive arts, or targeted towards that crowd. I have also heard good things about their drum kits as well. They sound good on youtube, but they are priced way up there with other high-end kitS. Why not give the new guy a chance, I guess is what I am saying.

Last edited by Groov-E; 01-31-2018 at 04:39 AM.
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  #26  
Old 01-31-2018, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by JoePasko View Post
I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?
I think the thing is, NAMM has become sort of a circus over the ensuing decades. Because so many "non-industry" types are allowed to attend (like me), the prevailing modus operandi has become that this is now the world's biggest Guitar Center blowfest ever.

There used to be a time when only buyers and serious industry professionals attended (from what I'm told from some old timers). Vendors and Buyers wore suits and serious business is made. The whole idea behind the trade show is not for the general public to be allowed to come in and make as much noise as they can, but it's so vendors can meet buyers so the vendors can stock the buyers with product to sell in their stores.

When I went into both the Pearl and Gretsch rooms on the second floor, there was a display area, but also a walled-off section where they could attend to business in a private atmosphere, and both of those rooms were quieter than normal. Some of the bigger vendors on the main showroom floor had their own little encampments where they could conduct business while all the noise was being made outside.

I admit, I do like being able to visit a vendor and try a product, or talk about it. I don't need to play it very loudly or give a clinic demonstration - it's not about that. But most people come in with their own sticks and hit everything in site. I don't bring sticks (score one for me) as I can see what the product is and know how it will sound, so I've never understood the urge to do a full blown try-out of anything at a trade show. If you want something new, take note of it, and then go to your local dealer when you get home to order it for you when it's available, right? When you get it home, then give it a full test, when you can actually hear it and concentrate on what you're doing.

So I can understand shutting down somebody's booth to make a point. NAMM does not exist for people to try stuff. It exists for buyers (a different badge) to buy from exhibitors (another different badge). I think next year, rather than have my badge say "Exhibitor Artist", I should change it to "Nobody", because the vendors don't want to talk to me - I'm not buying anything!
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
They sound good on youtube, but they are priced way up there with other high-end kitS. Why not give the new guy a chance, I guess is what I am saying.
A lot of things sound better on YouTube than they do in person.

I keep my eyes, ears and mind open, and happily give new companies and ideas a chance and a critical but unbiased look. I occasionally discover something that's an improvement over what I'm using, or a brand new sound, or maybe a useful accessory, and typically begin using it.

The chance that A&F gets is at NAMM, where their product is supposed to entice store owners to stock it. Basically, because the product is new to the MI scene, they need to try even harder. This is two years in a row that their gear just didn't sound good to me. (I believe this is only their second NAMM show.)

Perhaps when they drums are tuned, and not being beaten into submission, they're okay. I just haven't found that to be the case.

Bermuda
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Speaking of being beaten into submission, i am led to believe (by some learned members here ) that the majority of a drums sound is the heads. so therefor their drums by all accounts should be as good as any other. no?
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Speaking of being beaten into submission, i am led to believe (by some learned members here ) that the majority of a drums sound is the heads. so therefor their drums by all accounts should be as good as any other. no?
Yes. You are correct. The horse is still very much dead.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Yes. You are correct. The horse is still very much dead.
https://youtu.be/y_PZPpWTRTUhttps://youtu.be/YoueZRwbPsI
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
A lot of things sound better on YouTube than they do in person.

I keep my eyes, ears and mind open, and happily give new companies and ideas a chance and a critical but unbiased look. I occasionally discover something that's an improvement over what I'm using, or a brand new sound, or maybe a useful accessory, and typically begin using it.

The chance that A&F gets is at NAMM, where their product is supposed to entice store owners to stock it. Basically, because the product is new to the MI scene, they need to try even harder. This is two years in a row that their gear just didn't sound good to me. (I believe this is only their second NAMM show.)

Perhaps when they drums are tuned, and not being beaten into submission, they're okay. I just haven't found that to be the case.

Bermuda
You are entirely correct, and we are on the same page. I would love to try a kit and a couple of snares but last time I went to a retailer they were sold out.

Being curious, I watched a clip and I think they sound pretty decent and I feel like this is a pretty honest capture if I may borrow the term : https://youtu.be/Q0V-mMfo720.

I dont think these could ever be mass-produced anyways, and for that price there are plenty other offerings that may in the long term uphold their resale value better, then again I can't foresee the future.

My soft spot for small businesses makes me want them to succeed, and I give them credit for their imagination and innovation in a pretty conservative market.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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I've never understood the urge to do a full blown try-out of anything at a trade show. If you want something new, take note of it, and then go to your local dealer when you get home to order it for you when it's available, right? When you get it home, then give it a full test, when you can actually hear it and concentrate on what you're doing.
Yes and no.
One can take note of a product they'd like to hear/try out, take that info to your local shop & trying it out there is a perfect plan.

But to buy it, take it home and then fully test it is not logical.
I for one don't have an extra $500 laying around to buy a snare I've been looking at just to take it home to try it. If it doesn't sound good to me in the local shop, its staying there.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:27 PM
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Yes and no.
One can take note of a product they'd like to hear/try out, take that info to your local shop & trying it out there is a perfect plan.

But to buy it, take it home and then fully test it is not logical.
I for one don't have an extra $500 laying around to buy a snare I've been looking at just to take it home to try it. If it doesn't sound good to me in the local shop, its staying there.
Well, the argument is whether or not you do that at a trade show. Buyers are there to stock their stores. Vendors usually have pro players demo the stuff. It was never really meant for the general public to come through and go shopping, although thatís a cool feature.

And I still stick by my argument to actually get the product in your hands for a full demo, especially if you canít tell by observation and physical touching how the instrument will handle in real-world situations with your heads and your tunings. Most retailers have 30-money back guarantees these days, so you could just put it on a credit card and then do your thing and take it on a gig. Subjecting patrons at a store to a drum clinic is pretty unnecessary too.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Quote:
Most retailers have 30-money back guarantees these days, so you could just put it on a credit card and then do your thing and take it on a gig. Subjecting patrons at a store to a drum clinic is pretty unnecessary too.
I see your point. I for one got points for not bringing sticks to NAMM as I feel as you do. It's not the place to do a private clinic especially on drums.

I for one do not have the expendable income to buy a drum & try it at home. If you do, you're in an awesome place.

As there's never anyone in the drum room at my local Guitar Center (employees included), it's pretty much my own personal tryout room. They have drum keys on the counter so I can tweak the heads & play with a kit for a bit.
It's all I got for my situation.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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Originally Posted by JoePasko View Post
I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?
A booth doesn't get shut down without multiple warnings.

And it IS the vendors that encourage the behavior by setting up full kits with pedals and letting people go wild without trying to stop anyone.

You never see the major companies get into trouble with sound violations, because they don't encourage it.

One very small booth literally had NO one in it. Just a drum set. No rep to regulate it.

Another booth, the vendors left for a while with two full kits set up, and some poorly skilled drummers were practicing as if they were at home.

The vendors buy a booth, they don't buy the right to set up a full drum kit and let anyone who thinks they're the next drum solo superstar use that as a means to show off for hours and annoy everyone who's there trying to conduct business.
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  #36  
Old 01-31-2018, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

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A booth doesn't get shut down without multiple warnings.

And it IS the vendors that encourage the behavior by setting up full kits with pedals and letting people go wild without trying to stop anyone.

You never see the major companies get into trouble with sound violations, because they don't encourage it.

One very small booth literally had NO one in it. Just a drum set. No rep to regulate it.

Another booth, the vendors left for a while with two full kits set up, and some poorly skilled drummers were practicing as if they were at home.

The vendors buy a booth, they don't buy the right to set up a full drum kit and let anyone who thinks they're the next drum solo superstar use that as a means to show off for hours and annoy everyone who's there trying to conduct business.
It does kinda suck that in order to have a normal conversation or some rest means you have to leave the floor and go upstairs to an alcove. You can’t even go outside because there’s bands playing all the time.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Really? If this is what A $ F drums sound like, they should have been shut down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0V-...ature=youtu.be


C$5,895.95 ? Sorry, not hearing it. The 16 FT sounds like they forgot to cut the bearing edge. You shouldn't have to pay more than $100 for that sound.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:36 AM
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paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Les it's just a poor vid, tuning wise.. try this one. A good reason not to trust any of these so called showcases. https://youtu.be/yM3siBc4deM they all sound different but heads will fix that. wink wink. the horse is very much head.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:04 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

That video is MUCH better and the drums sound very clear. Not convinced its better than a vintage Sonor kit but, they are quite unique.

I,d find a way to erase that other video though, it wont help them at all.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
That video is MUCH better and the drums sound very clear.
Amazing what compression & a good dose of EQ can do ;)
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