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  #1  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:45 PM
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Default Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I read that Buddy is quoted as saying, "I think it's a fallacy that the harder you practice, the better you'll get. You get better by playing."

Is it safe to assume he means steady solo practice combined with regular playing with other musicians is how one gets better?
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Sure. He doesn't say "don't practice." He says "you have to play." The subtext is that the only thing that counts is how you play with people, which I would agree with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I agree with Todd. Buddy practiced incessantly, at least when he was young. But being the best at practicing isn't the goal. What you can do on the bandstand is the ultimate.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I think it's safe to say that Buddy was not a teacher and quite unaware of other people's situations.

He was also practically born with sticks and played constantly from childhood.

It's only natural for him to say that he didn't practice much in his later years. His family say he never practiced at home, but he definetly put his time in at some point.

He also came from an era where you had the opportunitu to play all the time, learn on the job and the gigs were there. That is the best way if you have a choice. Sitting in the shed with our play-a-longs is a new thing and a modren necessity. Once you take things seriously, unless you live in the right place, it's hard to find other people on your level to play and learn with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Unrelated, but I saw a Mel Brooks documentary where he talks about growing up in Brooklyn (i think it was) and Buddy was a little older in the same neighborhood, and could be heard practicing all day. Mel played some too.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

At some point if you're playing live every day at the top of your ability to play, you wouldn't need to practice very much. I think that's where Buddy got to, and stayed, for much of his later years.

I also agree that what is done in private in the practice room has little bearing on your actual ability. Can you produce night after night, show after show, recording session after recording session, on demand, regardless of the situation, reliably and consistently? That to me is the true measure of a "good" drummer.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Buddy was certainly a rare one. I feel that lazy people (not saying that's you at all Ross) use his example as a justification to not practice. Buddy was a working pro from an older era. I tell people "when you're as good as Buddy, then you don't have to practice anymore."

Me, I have a day job and a baby so I can't gig enough to keep my chops as sharp as I need them. I still need to practice. However, I have noticed that my chops didn't get any better when I was gigging more frequently but creatively I got better.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Ringo said the same thing from early on (not that he's a Buddy Rich, of course)...but he said he never practiced ever, only played with people. He also started relatively late, starting on thimble and washboard in his first band at 17, and getting his first cheap makeshift drumset soon after. 5 years later he was in the newly signed Beatles!
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I think it's fair to say that Buddy Rich lived and breathed at a level that not even 10% of musicians achieve...maybe not even 5%.

I always take that into consideration when pondering things that he said.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

This is not a good way to live by... Some people, very few are born with a gift of picking this up quick and easy as well.. Most people have to work for it..


I have multiple friends in bands who jam all the time. They are decent musicians, and they will stay decent musicians, improving slightly but in the last few years I have blown way by them because I practice all the time..

Practice to get better, play to have fun and preform... playing with music CAN be practicing, but I consider it rehearsing for a show. Usually I am not whipping out something I don't know how to play live on a gig and trying to work it out with a click track lol.


I heard a cool analogy awhile ago that stuck with me on the modern drummer podcast.. If someone walked by you and you wanted them to year you playing, your not practicing. If you don't want anyone to hear it, your practicing .

I like this because I practice things I need to get better at. NOONE in the entire planet is a perfect drummer, especially at everything. and even the best of the best can get faster, cleaner, and groovier. When your on stage your preforming or playing the stuff you were learning.

Learning how to play with other musicians is a thing all on it's own and needs to be learnt and time invested also.


I also think years ago musicians would withhold information often pre YouTube days to give them selves an edge in the industry. Now it is easy to find this info.


But honestly, I don't know any professional drummer you ask that would say they never practice.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I like the video where Buddy screws up and yells out "ahh shit !" Kills the splash and continues playing to finish the solo. That must have humbled him I would imagine. Practice was not perfect that day. heh
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

We had this discussion before, and everybody thought Buddy was saying you don't have to practice, or that he didn't practice. He didn't say that.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by jimzo View Post
I like the video where Buddy screws up and yells out "ahh shit !" Kills the splash and continues playing to finish the solo. That must have humbled him I would imagine. Practice was not perfect that day. heh
i like that too. he goes on to turn it up 10 knotches
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
We had this discussion before, and everybody thought Buddy was saying you don't have to practice, or that he didn't practice. He didn't say that.
Found the interview:
http://keepitlive.tripod.com/buddyri...interview.html

Well, I never really practiced because I never had the opportunity to practice. I've been working all my life ... I've been playing drums all my life, and now, I'm too lazy to bother with it. I have other things that I have to do - practice my martial arts , take care of my cars. I don't put too much emphasis on practice anyhow.

I think it's a fallacy that the harder you practice the better you get. You only get better by playing. You could sit around in a room, in a base-ment with a set of drums all day long and practice rudiments, and try to develop speed, but until you start playing with a band, you can't learn technique, you can't learn taste, you can't learn how to play with a band and for a band until you actually play. So, practice, particularly after you've attained a job, any kind of job, like playing with a four piece band, that's ...... an opportunity to develop. And practice, besides that, is boring. You know, I know teachers who tell their students to practice four hours a day, eight hours a day. If you can't accomplish what you want in an hour, you 're not gonna get it in four days.

What advice do you have for young drummers?

BR - None. I don't give advice to anybody. Everybody has to make their own decisions and everybody should make their own decisions.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

What advice do you have for young drummers?

Don't listen to anything Buddy Rich says.
In fact don't even watch Buddy rich play drums. His playing is not relevant any more. (Unless you happen to be playing 1940's big band music.)


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Old 01-14-2018, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
What advice do you have for young drummers?

Don't listen to anything Buddy Rich says.
In fact don't even watch Buddy rich play drums. His playing is not relevant any more. (Unless you happen to be playing 1940's big band music.)


.

This is idiotic. How can you progress the instrument if you don't understand what came before you?

You can also take away things from his hand technique.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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This is idiotic. How can you progress the instrument if you don't understand what came before you?

You can also take away things from his hand technique.
Yes, but the question was advice for “young” drummers. If you get a young drummer to emulate his playing and style, where would you find a band that would want to play with that young drummer? (I did make an exception for 1940’s big band players)

And there are plenty of modern drummers that have great hand technique.

I'm sorry if he is your hero, I did not mean to offend anyone.


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Old 01-14-2018, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Yes, but the question was advice for “young” drummers. If you get a young drummer to emulate his playing and style and his attitude about making music with others, where would you find a band that would want to play with that young drummer? (I did make an exception for 1940’s big band players)

And remember he hated rock and roll drumming. I just don’t think he’s a good role model for young drummers.
And there are plenty of modern drummers that have great hand technique.

I'm sorry if he is your hero, I did not mean to offend anyone.

He isn't a drum hero. I just don't think it is smart to pass over a drummer just because he plays a different style. Lots of drumming is stealing from others to add to your own playing.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Found the interview:
http://keepitlive.tripod.com/buddyri...interview.html

Well, I never really practiced because I never had the opportunity to practice. I've been working all my life ... I've been playing drums all my life, and now, I'm too lazy to bother with it. I have other things that I have to do - practice my martial arts , take care of my cars. I don't put too much emphasis on practice anyhow.

I think it's a fallacy that the harder you practice the better you get. You only get better by playing. You could sit around in a room, in a base-ment with a set of drums all day long and practice rudiments, and try to develop speed, but until you start playing with a band, you can't learn technique, you can't learn taste, you can't learn how to play with a band and for a band until you actually play. So, practice, particularly after you've attained a job, any kind of job, like playing with a four piece band, that's ...... an opportunity to develop. And practice, besides that, is boring. You know, I know teachers who tell their students to practice four hours a day, eight hours a day. If you can't accomplish what you want in an hour, you 're not gonna get it in four days.
Thanks for the context-- I forgot about this. Is anybody seriously in danger of believing you don't have to practice to learn how to play? I can't imagine. Everything he says about the relative importance of playing with people is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
What advice do you have for young drummers?

Don't listen to anything Buddy Rich says.
In fact don't even watch Buddy rich play drums. His playing is not relevant any more. (Unless you happen to be playing 1940's big band music.
Totally indefensible. You should delete that.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post

Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim
What advice do you have for young drummers?

Don't listen to anything Buddy Rich says.
In fact don't even watch Buddy rich play drums. His playing is not relevant any more. (Unless you happen to be playing 1940's big band music.


Totally indefensible. You should delete that.
OK I’ll back off and retract my statement about not watching buddy play; and that his playing is not relevant. Sure we can learn things from him. And yeah he’s fun to watch.

But it just seems like a bad idea to teach young drummers to not practice on their own, and instead go out and learn to play only by playing in bands like Buddy did. And to not learn how to read drum music like Buddy did.


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Old 01-14-2018, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Good on you Hollywood for coming up with a nice bit of reasoned contrariness!
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post

But it just seems like a bad idea to teach young drummers to not practice on their own, and instead go out and learn to play only by playing in bands like Buddy did.
To treat people the way Buddy did. To hate rock and roll like Buddy did. And to not learn how to read drum music like Buddy did.
Zero people have said this, and why even mention his personal life outside of drumming in the thread?
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Zero people have said this, and why even mention his personal life outside of drumming in the thread?
Yes you are correct. Sorry. There would be no need to teach anybody about his personal life. So I'll delete those two statements and we will stick to drumming issues.

It just seems like a bad idea to teach young drummers to not practice on their own, and instead go out and learn to play only by playing in bands like Buddy did. And to not learn how to read drum music like Buddy did.


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Old 01-14-2018, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I think it's good to watch as many people/drummers as humanly possible, Try and play every style, read every book, read music, try every technique, and THEN, you can decide what works for you and what doesn't.

Doesn't make anything better or worse, some things just work better for some people.... Although pinkys out little bounce drum rolls are not something that will work for anyone long term, or wild out of control technique issues.

That being said, for the time and style there is a reason he is so popular, but on that note there is a reason why young people, and many other don't have Buddy pictures hanging up in their drum rooms too. When it comes to technique, speed, and everything else the drums have evolved a TON in the last 40 years.

I still think with all the technical ability in the world you can only get so far before your creativity comes into play. And being a pioneer gives him some points as well.

I wish I had YouTube growing up learning and not trial and error testingthings for hours.


His statement about being in bands is slightly true. I joined my first band at 13 and have been in 1-3 at a time for over 20 years. It HAS made me better when it comes to things like endurance, musical awareness, and playing with other musicians. Especially when your in a band for 12 years, you can almost read minds of the other players, feel tempo changes, and it is really cool. It has forced me to play gigs when sick, practice when tired when I wouldn't otherwise, and when my band writes a song 25 BPM above my ability it gave me the motivation to learn and try to play faster.

The only way I COULD play faster, or learn a new chop / fill, or figure out a new groove was practice, and working independence exercises for hours gave me the freedom I needed to improvise a bit.

A good drummer needs to practice AND be in bands/jam with others to be a complete MUSICIAN. although these days I would be happy being a drummer, sitting in my basement and playing grooves by myself half the time. Too bad I'm mid recording 2 albums lol.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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Originally Posted by beyondbetrayal View Post
I think it's good to watch as many people/drummers as humanly possible, Try and play every style, read every book, read music, try every technique, and THEN, you can decide what works for you and what doesn't.

Doesn't make anything better or worse, some things just work better for some people.... Although pinkys out little bounce drum rolls are not something that will work for anyone long term, or wild out of control technique issues.

That being said, for the time and style there is a reason he is so popular, but on that note there is a reason why young people, and many other don't have Buddy pictures hanging up in their drum rooms too. When it comes to technique, speed, and everything else the drums have evolved a TON in the last 40 years.

I still think with all the technical ability in the world you can only get so far before your creativity comes into play. And being a pioneer gives him some points as well.

I wish I had YouTube growing up learning and not trial and error testingthings for hours.


His statement about being in bands is slightly true. I joined my first band at 13 and have been in 1-3 at a time for over 20 years. It HAS made me better when it comes to things like endurance, musical awareness, and playing with other musicians. Especially when your in a band for 12 years, you can almost read minds of the other players, feel tempo changes, and it is really cool. It has forced me to play gigs when sick, practice when tired when I wouldn't otherwise, and when my band writes a song 25 BPM above my ability it gave me the motivation to learn and try to play faster.

The only way I COULD play faster, or learn a new chop / fill, or figure out a new groove was practice, and working independence exercises for hours gave me the freedom I needed to improvise a bit.

A good drummer needs to practice AND be in bands/jam with others to be a complete MUSICIAN. although these days I would be happy being a drummer, sitting in my basement and playing grooves by myself half the time. Too bad I'm mid recording 2 albums lol.
Very true. And very well said!


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Old 01-14-2018, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

WARNING: Drummers under the age of 55 DO NOT view the following video of a Buddy Rich LIVE performance. It is non-relevant to your development in playing or appreciation of live music and
musicianship.... If you do dare to watch-ignore the superior timing, the "hits" and coordination with other players, dynamics, energy, and dedication to giving the audience everything they deserve...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvn8yvS8qUY
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

WARNING: Drummers under the age of 55 DO NOT listen to the following LIVE LIVE LIVE (no edits, no magic, not cut and paste) audio of Buddy Rich's interpretation of a "pop" tune. DO NOT consider how as a drummer you might be able to take a popular tune by a "rock" group to a new and exciting place. Do not take your head out of the contemporary sand to appreciate a level of playing-by the whole band, that many feel has become a lost art....

I warned you...

https://youtu.be/OzVeoTYXps8

"Rock" on, Buddy, rock on...
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

The mistake most people make when they comment about a comment that Buddy Rich made, is that they are internalizing his comment through their own ego. He never said don't practice and is not willing to give advice because that is the the ultimate answer! There is nothing more unselfish than to state the truth. He was not a teacher and if he would give advice, it wouldn't be correct advice.

All of his comments that come out as him being egoistical or an asshole is nothing but him speaking the truth about the question being asked. That's extremely rare and hardly anyone understands why he is giving these simple answers to open ended questions about drums. He doesn't know or he is not going to bullshit a bunch of young students.

You only get better by playing live. That's been said by every top end drummer in the industry. Of course you have to have a solid foundation of education before playing live. Practice is for learning to be comfortable playing live as in technique and coordination. The rest is learned from playing with other musicians, not in the shed. No offense to any hobby players that don't play live because their is nothing wrong with that.

Take a look at Bruce Lee. Him and Buddy had a lot in common. It's about your own path, and you are the only teacher. Yes we learn from each other, but individuality only comes from yourself. That's what Buddy preached
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Old 01-16-2018, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I was a high school kid standing next to Buddy backstage at the Boston Pops when some guy asked him for a tip for his kid on how to get good on drums.
Buddy said: "Tell him to just practice his rudiments".

I think it's unfair to categorise him as a person who never practiced.
Maybe he never practiced alone after his dixieland days.
In his day, the band practiced for hours and then played shows at night for hours every day.
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Buddy's quote is more relevant than ever nowadays with the youtube generation. Bedroom players with crazy chops. Unfortunately for them they can't do it with a band because pocket playing has been forgotten and doesn't get many views.

Maybe Buddy didn't practice too much on his own but his band practiced as hard as they played, Buddy included.

It's not just Buddy who has said things along these lines. It's common sense really but the professionally offended society we live in now isn't good with the truth.

Interviews with the Wrecking Crew, Stax, Muscle Shoals, Funk Brothers. They all say the same things, just not as direct as Buddy obviously!
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

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The professionally offended society we live in now isn't good with the truth.
This is GOLD!! Thanks for the laugh, I've needed it lately.

I just watched the 2 part DCI produced documentary on Buddy (the one narrated by Mel Torme), and it gave a great insight into his life and career. Professionally, he could be hard to work with simply because he expected 100% from his players.
As an active player, I've learned you don't become a professional player without first learning to play professionally.

Buddy didn't care about your personal problems, issues or pains while on the bandstand. He just cared about you getting the music right for the audience who came there to forget about their problems.
He paid them to "earn the audience" and earn them is what he expected.
I've taken this to heart in my professional playing career and it's helped me immensely.

His daughter Cathy spoke highly of him as a father and especially as a grandfather.
That alone tells me he was a great person outside his job. Add his appearance on the Muppet Show, Johnny Carson and Sammy Davis Jr. shows and he was clearly a fun loving guy who just wanted to entertain.
He spoke highly of Gene Krupa as being a dear friend and drumming inspiration. This showed a lot of humility as I'm sure Buddy knew he was a better player than Gene, but never let that fact cloud the friendship or taint a performance.


Mel commented that Buddy indeed didn't practice like we do these days simply because he played on stage so often (as it's been said here). Combined with his obvious natural ability, I can see his need for practicing outside the bandstand not as necessary like we would.

I have a practice pad in my TV room simply to work on the rudiments I struggle with. It has had a profound effect on my fluidity as a player when I get on stage as I've found I don't struggle with fills or complex grooves.

Buddy has said he's not a teacher, but he's had students since day 1. All they did was watch & try to do what he did. Sure, one will never get the left hand technique he had, but they'll come close in their own way. Thus, they learned something from the master.

Buddy helped influence me as a young player as I was enamored by his single stroke roll ability. Something I still work on today. As I was a teenager in the 80's playing in rock bands however, he didn't do much for me beyond that.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:11 AM
ricky ricky is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Regarding him hating rock, I listened to an interview with him where he talks about how a drummer should be able to play anything (that sure as hell counts me out!), whether it's with a band like The Beatles or jazz or whatever, and that he listens to The Police and Earth, Wind, and Fire, etc.

I can't imagine him playing in a band like The Beatles though, and being able to have, er....restraint!
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:18 AM
ricky ricky is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Found some funky stuff from him, never heard him playing stuff like this before!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2yfD1E47Q

This one sounds like a cop show from the 70s...or porn music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p95UZ9AG-mc

Last edited by ricky; 01-17-2018 at 12:29 AM.
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2018, 05:24 PM
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CommanderRoss CommanderRoss is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Found some funky stuff from him, never heard him playing stuff like this before!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2yfD1E47Q

This one sounds like a cop show from the 70s...or porn music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p95UZ9AG-mc
Good stuff! Like when I heard him play Birdland with his band. To see him use the restraint he did was just epic. As you know he was jonesing to bust out with some speedy chops somewhere in it.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:11 PM
TimZimm TimZimm is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I adore Buddy Rich, I admit to finding him through Whiplash the film but he's just unbelievably talented.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:33 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

I get what you're saying Hollywood. Your still aces in my book! We dont call each other names on here, nor do we insult valued members feedback. (In my mind anyway) Ballsy statement, I respect it!

Makes sense too. Dont start with full on monster razzle dazzle, start with the basics, meat and potatoes.
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  #37  
Old 02-12-2018, 06:29 AM
ZildjianLover ZildjianLover is offline
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Default Re: Good Buddy Rich quote on practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Regarding him hating rock, I listened to an interview with him where he talks about how a drummer should be able to play anything (that sure as hell counts me out!), whether it's with a band like The Beatles or jazz or whatever, and that he listens to The Police and Earth, Wind, and Fire, etc.

I can't imagine him playing in a band like The Beatles though, and being able to have, er....restraint!
Exactly! I think he would probably rage-quit halfway through his first recording session because the other Beatles would keep stopping him and tell him to "quiet down" when he does more than one fill in a row. It would have been nice if they had a drummer like Buddy who was actually very skilled and creative instead of being overhyped like Ringo. Only Ringo could get away with doing so little, and still manage to be famous simply because The Beatles couldn't find a better drummer. He was Lars Ulrich before Lars Ulrich.
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