DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:38 PM
threemoreweeks's Avatar
threemoreweeks threemoreweeks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 58
Default Example of double stroke roll in songs

I must admit, I can't bring myself to practice something, unless, I know where or how the technique will be beneficial for me in the future. Thus, can someone point out, where the double stroke roll is utilized in any well known songs.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2018, 03:57 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,392
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Double strokes are so fundamental even for just developing semi acceptable technique that they really shouldn't be questioned.

Any rudimental tune would be full of them.

Accents with fill-ins would be ine obvious one, you know. 5, 7, 9-stroke rolls moving the accents around.

A little spice on the hats. 5-stroke roll is where I usually start my students there.

Unless you want to be a purely singles rock'n'roller you'd do well to work on all your rudiments. Applications will to a certain degree show themselves.

It's also just the beginning of building basuc ability of accents and ghost notes with the LH. What binds a lot of grooves together and the ability to musically.



These are sort of novice questions that are sort of an excuse to not have to do the work.

I see this all the time with students who have been playing for a while without propper guidance. They "just want to play songs" and question anything because they never learned the basics or got used to having a technique routine.

See, there's stuff in those tunes that they don't hear yet, but it's an integral part of how things flow and feel.

If it's really a pain it's ok to wait. If you're young and you're able to play a lot with others, as long as you listen and learn from each other, that's perfectly valid. In that case you shouldn't waste your or a teachers time. Just be sure you understand that if you want to be a serious drummer, this as well as reading, being open minded and understanding several styles is just par for the course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-LTEnk_Snc
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.

Last edited by Odd-Arne Oseberg; 01-04-2018 at 08:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2018, 04:22 PM
Richard.Awesome's Avatar
Richard.Awesome Richard.Awesome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 251
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

With Rudiments, especially the "26", the more you learn and internalize them yourself, the more you are able to pick them out in songs you hear. Double stroke roll and its accents is arguably the most used, especially in jazz. If you only play rock, you can get away with only using singles, but doubles make it more fun!
__________________
http://www.richardawesome.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-04-2018, 07:16 PM
MrPockets's Avatar
MrPockets MrPockets is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

You can use it by by doing 5,7, and 9 stroke rolls on the snare and hitting the end accent on a crash.

If you play double bass, you can use them on your feet.

Tom fills with left hand on snare and right hand going around the toms.

Hi-Hat rolls in grooves.

"Trash Can" endings.

it's literally the 2nd most vital rudiment after the single stroke roll.
__________________
Drum is fum

Last edited by MrPockets; 01-05-2018 at 08:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:05 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,052
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

They're all over Stewart Copeland's hihat work, for one thing. All funk and fusion drummers use them a lot-- I guess you could look at Steve Gadd's playing for that. It's just a thing good drummers learn how to do. Part of how people become good drummers is they get interested in developing their abilities whether or not they see an immediate need for whatever thing.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:21 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,679
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

How about our national anthem, The Star Spangled Banner!
__________________
DrumDoug: "I've tried talking to the guys about our stage volume, but it just falls on deaf ears"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:10 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,797
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Every song that isn't simple simple rock with boring fills utilizes some sort I would think.

Go find any decent drummer and they know how to do a double stroke roll. Now, 26 rudiments is excessive if your just starting with rudiments, Paradiddles, inverted diddles, double strokes, single strokes, parapara diddles, 6 stroke rolls, 5,7,9 stroke rolls, and inverted doubles are my go too's... Add flams as well.. but I don't play much using flam taps... Do I practice them? of course I do.

Now WHY... because it builds independence, technique and control. I may be playing something that involves triplets, say RllRllrrLRll and although it's not a straight forward double stroke roll I need to be able to do doubles on both hands.

Worry about doing it clean, rather than fast. I spent years playing and getting buy on single strokes and being a fast drummer.. My playing has gone from 0 to 100 in the years since learning rudiments on a pad.

I always show my students with your mind set a few really cool grooves using diddles etc, some fills using diddles and doubles, and a bunch more chops to see what you can achieve... The reason being the same thing you are thinking.. Sitting on a pad for 20 minutes going RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL doesn't seem musical.. Same with the other rudiments. When you can move the accents, sticking, and subdivisions around though, you're in for a treat.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:43 PM
pgm554's Avatar
pgm554 pgm554 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,443
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by threemoreweeks View Post
I must admit, I can't bring myself to practice something, unless, I know where or how the technique will be beneficial for me in the future. Thus, can someone point out, where the double stroke roll is utilized in any well known songs.

Thanks.
Manfred Mans Earth Band Spirits in the Night.

3:26 into the song Chris Slade on drums (David Gilmore AC/DC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMqJRF_E_ao

Yes Siberian Khatru Bill Bruford

5:45 into song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0HnIr6jYWU
__________________
Pearl MCX Gretsch Renown and many many Fibes snares.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:46 AM
ricky ricky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 95
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Just to add a novice type question to this but......

I'm doing this song where I want to put in a very fast military type sound snare roll every once in awhile for a single beat of a bar. So the song is about 120 bpm, and to do a very fast single roll well is somewhat difficult for me at that tempo, but doing it double stroke is easier...on account of half the strokes for each hand! Is my thinking wrong on this? Is that not the general reason to do double strokes as opposed to singles?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:06 AM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,392
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Just to add a novice type question to this but......

I'm doing this song where I want to put in a very fast military type sound snare roll every once in awhile for a single beat of a bar. So the song is about 120 bpm, and to do a single roll well is somewhat difficult for me, but doing it double stroke is easier...on account of half the strokes for each hand! Is my thinking wrong on this? Is that not the general reason to do double strokes as opposed to singles?

It depends on what you're trying to play and the sound you want. If you want really loud staccato then singles would be your best bet.

Assuming you're talking 16th notes at 120 bpm then that's not exceptionally fast, but sure, if you're new it's gonna take a while to do that cleanly.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:48 AM
ricky ricky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 95
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
It depends on what you're trying to play and the sound you want. If you want really loud staccato then singles would be your best bet.

Assuming you're talking 16th notes at 120 bpm then that's not exceptionally fast, but sure, if you're new it's gonna take a while to do that cleanly.
I'm not entirely new, but I am new to actually trying to learn stuff...a bit of rudiments and technique etc. Drums are not my first instrument, I just like playing them! Come to think of it, I'm not really schooled at any instrument...

so yeah, I guess 120 is not all that fast, I can do it single, but double seems much easier...so the idea of a double stroke versus the single is the sound and not the ease? I would think with what I'm doing (which would be just an even quick beat of snare dddddddd), that someone listening would not really hear a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:04 AM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,797
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

That is a good point.. Singles are easier when your starting out.. after years of playing and doing rudiments you can play MUCH faster doing diddles and double strokes... It conserves a TON of energy.

also, have you EVER heard a drum solo without double strokes or rudiments? the answer is no.. If you want to learn how to do a solo you must learn this stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-05-2018, 09:58 AM
Supernoodle Supernoodle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 108
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Couldn't find many modern songs, but here's some older stuff:

Simply Red - Your Mirror

Santana - Evil Ways

Emerson, Lake and Palmer - Nut rocker

Also the famous Motown fill uses a 6 stroke roll.

Or listen to Keith Carlock letting off some fireworks, he's got killer doubles, on toms as well. It takes a lot of practise but good doubles is really cool to have available.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:31 PM
Rattlin' Bones's Avatar
Rattlin' Bones Rattlin' Bones is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 945
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

THIS - and yes she's very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F0_xro5mFk
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-05-2018, 05:40 PM
Stroker's Avatar
Stroker Stroker is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Canada, We Stand on Guard for Thee
Posts: 1,677
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by threemoreweeks View Post
I must admit, I can't bring myself to practice something, unless, I know where or how the technique will be beneficial for me in the future. Thus, can someone point out, where the double stroke roll is utilized in any well known songs.

Thanks.
A great eye-opener for anyone questioning rudiments, would be to go up against a drummer (any drummer) who can lay-down said rudiments. The difference in the passage of sound, the execution of playing, and the overall technique between the drummer who enriched his or her playing through learning a variety of rudimental exercises, versus the drummer that distanced him or herself from rudiment practice and playing, will be the difference between night and day. No comparison.
__________________
Rash of letters after an Architects name? Alphabet Soup, don't drown in it...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:27 PM
JohnW JohnW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rockport, MA USA
Posts: 861
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Ask not what Doubles can do for you, ask what you can do for Doubles!

Key rudiments compliment each other; sometimes directly and sometimes in unexpected ways. For instance, the ability to play a secondary stroke of equal volume in one hand and then the other will translate into the ability to to play clean, powerful, alternating Single strokes. There are a number of reasons for this; one being the fact you have to lift the stick up or the 2nd stroke will sound weak. If you just work on Singles and have a flaw in your technique (like slamming the sticks into the head) you may have a decent volume, but get hamstrung if you want to get any speed. Later on, if you work on more refined technique (like push-pull), you'll find that Doubles are easier to control and monitor. Then you can transfer it to Singles.

If you're going to play a funky pattern broken up on the Set, it'll probably be some variation of the Paradiddle. And that's just combinations of Singles and Doubles. Or if you're going to play alternating Flams, you're going to be using combinations of up and down strokes. Again, it's much easier to coordinate an up and down stroke in one hand and move to the other than coordinating a Flam. Yes, they're two completely different Rudiments and you need to learn how to play the Flam on its own. But using those up and down strokes in the context of Doubles will help with your control and articulation of Flams.

Doubles have been the cornerstone of Snare tradition for 800 years. And for the past 120 of those years, most of the major innovations on the Set have come from Drummers who have learned the Snare drum. It doesn't mean you have to master it, but there's no reason to limit yourself by only working on something if you see a direct, current application.
__________________
-John W

National Association of Rudimental Drummers
(N.A.R.D.) Member, No. 10078
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:56 PM
Merlin5's Avatar
Merlin5 Merlin5 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London UK
Posts: 935
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Here's a decent example of a double stroke roll. It's played as four 1/32 notes during beat 4 every other measure. Steve Gadd of course :)
https://youtu.be/ABXtWqmArUU


Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Just to add a novice type question to this but......

I'm doing this song where I want to put in a very fast military type sound snare roll every once in awhile for a single beat of a bar. So the song is about 120 bpm, and to do a very fast single roll well is somewhat difficult for me at that tempo, but doing it double stroke is easier...on account of half the strokes for each hand! Is my thinking wrong on this? Is that not the general reason to do double strokes as opposed to singles?
Nothing wrong with your thinking on this. There's a couple of ways you could play this.
If for instance you start the roll on beat 4, just double up 4e+a to 1/32 notes,

4--e--+--a---|1 2 3 4
RRLLRRLL|R 2 3 4

But at 120bpm I prefer to play it as a 1/16th note triplet starting on the left hand. Just play an 1/8th note triplet and double each stroke. It's easier and smoother to execute but still sounds fast enough. Try it :)

4...trip.let|1 2 3 4
LL.RR..LL| R 2 3 4

Playing double stroke rolls usually means the drummer needs to make a decision on what type of double stroke roll fits the tempo. Generally speaking, the faster the tempo, the shorter you can make the roll, so a five stroke roll may fit better than say a 9 stroke roll.
And for a slower groove, an 11 or 13 stroke roll might fill the space between the beats better, whereas a 5 or 7 stroke roll could sound too slow with too much space between each roll stroke.

So don't just learn the double stroke roll, learn the rudiments that involve double strokes so you can use the appropriate one. 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17 stroke rolls.
__________________
No drums no life, know drums know life...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:54 AM
ricky ricky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 95
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
Here's a decent example of a double stroke roll. It's played as four 1/32 notes during beat 4 every other measure. Steve Gadd of course :)
https://youtu.be/ABXtWqmArUU




Nothing wrong with your thinking on this. There's a couple of ways you could play this.
If for instance you start the roll on beat 4, just double up 4e+a to 1/32 notes,

4--e--+--a---|1 2 3 4
RRLLRRLL|R 2 3 4

But at 120bpm I prefer to play it as a 1/16th note triplet starting on the left hand. Just play an 1/8th note triplet and double each stroke. It's easier and smoother to execute but still sounds fast enough. Try it :)

4...trip.let|1 2 3 4
LL.RR..LL| R 2 3 4

Playing double stroke rolls usually means the drummer needs to make a decision on what type of double stroke roll fits the tempo. Generally speaking, the faster the tempo, the shorter you can make the roll, so a five stroke roll may fit better than say a 9 stroke roll.
And for a slower groove, an 11 or 13 stroke roll might fill the space between the beats better, whereas a 5 or 7 stroke roll could sound too slow with too much space between each roll stroke.

So don't just learn the double stroke roll, learn the rudiments that involve double strokes so you can use the appropriate one. 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17 stroke rolls.
Interesting ideas, thanks for that!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:26 PM
brady's Avatar
brady brady is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,645
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

All those classic Motown intros used doubles strokes on drums...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYaubcjiuK4
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:31 PM
brady's Avatar
brady brady is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,645
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Also...anything Philly Joe Jones ever played...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-07-2018, 12:54 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,294
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Subdivision by Rush

Walking on the Moon by The Police

Rooster by Alice In Chains

Just off the top of my head.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-07-2018, 01:10 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,294
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Kryptonite by 3 Doors Down - Huge hit song. Doubles are a major part of it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:31 PM
MrPockets's Avatar
MrPockets MrPockets is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tia3nieOu0o#t=16m0s
__________________
Drum is fum
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-19-2018, 01:13 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 611
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Here's the best advice I can give you:

Start practicing double strokes, paradiddles and all your other rudiments now, because in 10 years time when you have a pretty good idea about how much stuff you still need to learn (and how little you really know), you'll at least know that you put the time into developing the technical facility required to learn more advanced concepts. I've been playing 20+ years and still regret not pushing through the tedium and boredom I experienced with rudimental work because all the really cool stuff I want to do depends on abilities that just aren't quite good enough yet.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-19-2018, 02:05 AM
Morrisman's Avatar
Morrisman Morrisman is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Australia
Posts: 1,562
Default Re: Example of double stroke roll in songs

Spin Doctors - Two Princes

Paul Simon - 50 ways to leave your lover
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com