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  #1  
Old 10-15-2017, 07:47 PM
KamaK KamaK is online now
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Default BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Was reading http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41597857 and something caught my eye...

Quote:
Fleetwood is the band's beating heart, constructing dozens of unforgettable rhythms - from the syncopated shuffle of Go Your Own Way, to the fidgety cowbell riff of Oh Well.
Playing that song in my head... You have the "Ticket To Ride" verse, and the 4-on the floor straight up rock chorous... But it's not swung, and I would never have thought to consider it a shuffle.... There's nothing pronounced on the "ah", and would have never considered it syncopated.

Can someone enlighten me?
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

I'd assume the author mixed up "Go Your Own Way" with "Don't Stop" given both songs are next to each other on Rumors.
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Typo from a journalist that didnít do his research or proofreading?
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:23 PM
KamaK KamaK is online now
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Typo from a journalist that didnít do his research or proofreading?
Indeed, though I think DED might have it right. I find it hard to believe that a journalist that knows the words "syncopated shuffle" wouldn't actually know what a shuffle is.... Then again, looking at the state of journalism and general music knowledge these days....
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Indeed, though I think DED might have it right. I find it hard to believe that a journalist that knows the words "syncopated shuffle" wouldn't actually know what a shuffle is.... Then again, looking at the state of journalism and general music knowledge these days....
What the heck is a syncopated shuffle, anyway? Seems oxymoronic since a shuffle is supposed to make you feel good and groove to the music. Anything syncopated is contrary to that, dontcha think?
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:32 PM
KamaK KamaK is online now
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What the heck is a syncopated shuffle, anyway? Seems oxymoronic since a shuffle is supposed to make you feel good and groove to the music. Anything syncopated is contrary to that, dontcha think?

My take is that it would mean instrumenting the "ah" in some fashion... Either with the kick, hat-lift, or possibly accenting the snare/ride.... Or even with other instruments playing (guitar/bass)... Though only a small percent of google hits tells me I'm correct. The rest of the results are all over the place.


Play a Chicago shuffle, but instead of 4 on the floor, go... ah-one, ah-three, ah-one, ah-three, ah-one, ah-three,

So yeah, I don't exactly know, but only kinda sorta know.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Definitely not a shuffle on the verse.

Bass drum on the quarter notes.

Flammed snare hit on 2

Tom hits on the 'and's after 3 and 4

That covers the basic groove, but it's played with additional snare rolls and tom hits to mix it up.
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Old 10-16-2017, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
What the heck is a syncopated shuffle, anyway? Seems oxymoronic since a shuffle is supposed to make you feel good and groove to the music. Anything syncopated is contrary to that, dontcha think?
As pointed out in the recording thread, there are a few weird accents and crashes in odd places in "Don't Stop". Which, if I recall right from reading Mick's autobiography many years ago, was due to the band altering the arrangement after the drum parts were recorded.

So while the shuffle beat may not be syncopated, the drum track is.

On a different hand, if you take a music history class, it will be discussed how all jazz rhythms (from which the shuffle comes from) are syncopated relative to the straight marching and classical music that was popular prior to jazz's invention. In that regard, any shuffle is syncopated because it's not straight time.

Though, more likely, as pointed out, the writer just has no idea what they're talking about.
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
As pointed out in the recording thread, there are a few weird accents and crashes in odd places in "Don't Stop". Which, if I recall right from reading Mick's autobiography many years ago, was due to the band altering the arrangement after the drum parts were recorded.

So while the shuffle beat may not be syncopated, the drum track is.

On a different hand, if you take a music history class, it will be discussed how all jazz rhythms (from which the shuffle comes from) are syncopated relative to the straight marching and classical music that was popular prior to jazz's invention. In that regard, any shuffle is syncopated because it's not straight time.

Though, more likely, as pointed out, the writer just has no idea what they're talking about.
Yes, I recall the discussion of "syncopated" rhythms in that class. I thought it was dumb because although yes, the beats are syncopated when compared to straight quarter or eighth notes in a line, they are combined to create a rhythm that creates a better pulse for the listener, and there's still the underlying quarter notes as well.

So yes, this journalist probably doesn't know what he's talking about. And yes, college academics just have this knack for making simple things unnecessarily complicated - which is why people who come out of college with a music degree still floundering around a bit gig-wise until they discover they knew the basics all along ;)
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Don't stop has a syncopated pattern in the opening piano chords, emphasising beats 1 then 2&. And it's a shuffle overall, so 'syncopated shuffle' seems fair.

My definition of syncopation involves accenting off-beats in some way, either by playing accents, or leaving gaps/rests on the downbeat, or holding notes over (ties) from an offbeat across the next down beat. A standard shuffle does none of these things, so I don't consider it to be syncopation. The downbeats are all there, and the offbeats aren't usually accented.
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

It's an article by the BBC, its bound to be flawed because if they ever were a genuine journalistic powerhouse they're not any more.
It states that Christine McVie is still a member of the band to this day, even the briefest of Wikipaedia checks shows that she was gone for 16 years so the statement within the article paints an entirely different picture to the reality.
Ultimately the piece was probably written by a person with less musical knowledge than anyone on here, but because it goes up on a major site it gets a fee pass.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolwich View Post
It's an article by the BBC, its bound to be flawed because if they ever were a genuine journalistic powerhouse they're not any more.
It states that Christine McVie is still a member of the band to this day, even the briefest of Wikipaedia checks shows that she was gone for 16 years so the statement within the article paints an entirely different picture to the reality.
Ultimately the piece was probably written by a person with less musical knowledge than anyone on here, but because it goes up on a major site it gets a fee pass.
Well, I was going to say much the same thing.

You're all much more versed in music than me.... however I do know one thing:

the BBC is rubbish. I still browse their website and could list many things that are just embarrassingly poor about the Beeb's work.

Don't even get me started, because I won't stop! Besides, this forum is not the appropriate place for that discussion...
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolwich View Post
It's an article by the BBC, its bound to be flawed because if they ever were a genuine journalistic powerhouse they're not any more.
It states that Christine McVie is still a member of the band to this day, even the briefest of Wikipaedia checks shows that she was gone for 16 years so the statement within the article paints an entirely different picture to the reality.
Ultimately the piece was probably written by a person with less musical knowledge than anyone on here, but because it goes up on a major site it gets a fee pass.
BBC reporting is appalling at best. They've devolved into just another agenda pushing media outlet. A public funded one I'd add!

Has anyone seen them since she came back in 2014? We had a look at tickets and got scared!

The con with Fleetwood Mac live is that there's another band playing behind them on stage so it's not really Fleetwood Mac you're hearing.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

DED, interesting info about the band changing the arrangement. It makes sense listening back. It's happened to me a few times - where you expect the other musicians to play one thing over your drum track only to find it becomes something quite different. Kind of cool ... like Forrest Gump's chocolates.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Indeed, though I think DED might have it right. I find it hard to believe that a journalist that knows the words "syncopated shuffle" wouldn't actually know what a shuffle is....
I suspect that the journo just liked the term "syncopated shuffle" - it sounds cool and hardly anyone would notice or care.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2017, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolwich View Post
It's an article by the BBC, its bound to be flawed because if they ever were a genuine journalistic powerhouse they're not any more.
It states that Christine McVie is still a member of the band to this day, even the briefest of Wikipaedia checks shows that she was gone for 16 years so the statement within the article paints an entirely different picture to the reality.
Ultimately the piece was probably written by a person with less musical knowledge than anyone on here, but because it goes up on a major site it gets a fee pass.
Christine McVie did rejoin the band for the 2015 world tour, and looks like she'll be there for the 2018 'farewell' tour as well.
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2017, 06:48 PM
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Bruce M. Thomson Bruce M. Thomson is offline
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Default Re: BBC Mick Fleetwood Article

Major fan of the band and have quite a collection of their records; my favorite period was the Bob Welch period. He had sort of the same mystic qualities in his music that Peter Green had, If you get a chance to hear Peter Green's solo work it is definitely worth a listen .
Mick is being humble about his drumming.

Have a listen to this; I love the opening.

https://youtu.be/_65rBoOQ14E

Thank you for sharing the article.
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