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  #1  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:27 PM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Sharing a stage/drums

Hi guys,

I have a gig coming up playing support to a local band. To find out what gear I need to bring I contacted the guitarist of the band (drummer was unavailable any of the two times I phoned) who advised their drummer plays not only quite a complex setup (i.e. double bass drum, 50 million cymbals / toms etc.), but is also a left handed player who doesn't like his drum kit being swapped around to accommodate a right handed player like me.

Standard protocol for these sort of things where I live is that support acts bring "breakables" such as cymbals, snare and sticks etc. but even if I do this I won't be able to swap around the stage kit - and I certainly can't play left handed.

This is an outdoor gig on a 15ft x 30ft stage so was thinking of bringing my own small kit and just setting it up beside or in front of the main kit - but then the guitarist raised the point that the soundman wouldn't want to put mics on 2 kits (even if I supply my own!) so even if I brought my own kit no one would hear it!

Oh and one last thing - the drummer for the headline act is a monster 6.5 ft tall and likes to do the whole £reach for the stars" thing with the cymbals. I'm 5ft 5in and like lowish cymbals as I have a bad back and physically can't be reaching that high.

What do you guys suggest?


Thanks,

R
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:33 PM
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TripleStroke TripleStroke is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

So.. what do these guys want from u?... drummer doesnt want u fiddling with setup... guitarist doesnt want u to bring ur own kit... really? Dont play then?..

Or...

Ride on the right side
Slave pedal (right side) of left footed double pedal as your main bass drum pedal (lol the thought of this)
Then proceed to play open handed... lol wow
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

The drummer is being super-unreasonable.
If that can't change you either have to bring your own kit ..or you can't play.
I would basically state that ultimatum to whomever is involved.

Sometimes playing with unreasonable people or a situation is not worth it, unless you desperately need this gig (hassle).
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

yeah, I'd say 100% bring your own kit. Honestly, depending on the sound guys mics, it's probably 5 minutes to move the mics between kits. I see no other option for you.
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:11 AM
Captain Bash Captain Bash is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Don't be held hostage by this, it's unreasonable on a kit share gig for the drummer or band supplying back line to state nothing can be moved / switched, especially if there kit is unusual or set-up left handed. I would say at the very least you need to take the main kit and set it up for you, say a right handed 4 piece kit.
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:12 AM
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Living Dead Drummer Living Dead Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by whiteknightx View Post
it's probably 5 minutes to move the mics between kits.
Less than that.

Bring your own kit, set up in front of his. Quick on and and off.
See if you can talk to the sound guy ahead of time. And I mean not day of the gig, like week before the gig if possible. Let him know the situation. You have a lefty guy who won't let you move anything and is being a pain in the ass.
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  #7  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by rmac86 View Post
Hi guys,

I have a gig coming up playing support to a local band. To find out what gear I need to bring I contacted the guitarist of the band (drummer was unavailable any of the two times I phoned) who advised their drummer plays not only quite a complex setup (i.e. double bass drum, 50 million cymbals / toms etc.), but is also a left handed player who doesn't like his drum kit being swapped around to accommodate a right handed player like me.

Standard protocol for these sort of things where I live is that support acts bring "breakables" such as cymbals, snare and sticks etc. but even if I do this I won't be able to swap around the stage kit - and I certainly can't play left handed.

This is an outdoor gig on a 15ft x 30ft stage so was thinking of bringing my own small kit and just setting it up beside or in front of the main kit - but then the guitarist raised the point that the soundman wouldn't want to put mics on 2 kits (even if I supply my own!) so even if I brought my own kit no one would hear it!

Oh and one last thing - the drummer for the headline act is a monster 6.5 ft tall and likes to do the whole £reach for the stars" thing with the cymbals. I'm 5ft 5in and like lowish cymbals as I have a bad back and physically can't be reaching that high.

What do you guys suggest?


Thanks,

R
I'd suggest emailing this band with the promoter/sound engineer copied in and asking what they in turn suggest as you're trying to work around it and they are being d**kish by not helping clarify if you can move his kit, or even set up your own as a workaround.

Some people really have fragile egos, the drummer sounds a bit of a little wimp if he's not taking your calls also to talk it through. Sounds like he doesn't want you to use it 100% but can't tell you over the phone due to the wimpishness. That's my outside interpretation anyway.

Hope it works out.
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  #8  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:26 AM
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TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

I wouldn't trust a guitar player to really know what is and what isn't possible for his band's drummer or the sound guy. What is the venue like? Is it a bar or otherwise small and simple venue?
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  #9  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:51 AM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
I wouldn't trust a guitar player to really know what is and what isn't possible for his band's drummer or the sound guy. What is the venue like? Is it a bar or otherwise small and simple venue?
The venue is an outdoor stage about 30ft x 15ft set up on a grass pitch. I reckon its a reasonable size to accommodate two drum kits. I think I'm going to bring my own mics just to be safe.


Thanks,

R
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:56 AM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleStroke View Post
So.. what do these guys want from u?... drummer doesnt want u fiddling with setup... guitarist doesnt want u to bring ur own kit... really? Dont play then?..

Or...

Ride on the right side
Slave pedal (right side) of left footed double pedal as your main bass drum pedal (lol the thought of this)
Then proceed to play open handed... lol wow
I have said that to the rest of my band that if this carries on I may consider not playing, however this was met with the response of "sure isn't it easy to just turn a drum kit around?" See what I'm up against?
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:59 AM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
The drummer is being super-unreasonable.
If that can't change you either have to bring your own kit ..or you can't play.
I would basically state that ultimatum to whomever is involved.

Sometimes playing with unreasonable people or a situation is not worth it, unless you desperately need this gig (hassle).
Very true, we took the gig as it is only our second outing and we are trying to get noticed. Trying to headline your own gigs here is near impossible. So still not sure how badly we need it.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2017, 01:03 AM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by Captain Bash View Post
Don't be held hostage by this, it's unreasonable on a kit share gig for the drummer or band supplying back line to state nothing can be moved / switched, especially if there kit is unusual or set-up left handed. I would say at the very least you need to take the main kit and set it up for you, say a right handed 4 piece kit.
Good idea, though this seems to be totally out as the sound man has said we have very limited time in between us finishing and handing over to the next band therefore no swapping around of equipment unfortunately.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2017, 04:32 AM
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TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmac86 View Post
The venue is an outdoor stage about 30ft x 15ft set up on a grass pitch. I reckon its a reasonable size to accommodate two drum kits. I think I'm going to bring my own mics just to be safe.


Thanks,

R
The reason I ask about the venue is because I want an idea of how professional the venue is, as well as your band and the headliner. A sports bar might be a professional venue but 99% of the time it's not run that way. The concern of not having time- or even being willing- to switch out kits or have a second kit on stage screams amateur hour to me on the part of the headliner.

If the venue is just a small-time local venue they should be able to easily accommodate a kit change or mic change without prior notice. It's something they should deal with regularly unless they provide a house kit and require it be used. If it's a professional venue with a solid reputation that draws national acts and is respected by people outside of your own community they should be able to coordinate a situation as simple as yours without breaking a sweat.

Now, if the venue is akin more to a sports bar than an established music venue the odds of you contacting anyone at the venue in advance and having a worthwhile conversation is very unlikely. In my experience the sound guy at your typical local venue is on call and the staff and individual responsible for booking have no real interest in the logistics of the show outside of it starting on time and ending on time. If that's the situation just show up with your drums and talk to the sound guy before doing anything

Lastly, don't bring your own mics. If someone tells you that you can't play with their mics leave and don't look back because the venue isn't worth your time. If your bandmates don't understand the issue they might not be worth your time either.
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:04 PM
Woolwich Woolwich is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

A tricky situation and a lot of, in my opinion, unreasonable and confrontational replies.
I once did a gig where the opener said he played a one up one down kit so removed two of my toms. I really should have told him to just ignore they were there but being me and wanting to be nice I let him remove them. Putting them back in place wasn't the biggest challenge I've faced in my life but it was a degree of hassle I could have done without ahead of huge gig and that was just a simple change.
Perhaps this drummer has his kit rack mounted. Perhaps with a multi Tom set up he anticipates tom changes to be asked for as well as hi hat placement and let's be completely honest here, doing this within a forest of multi clamped cymbals or positioned hardware won't be easy. Perhaps, like me, he had someone chopping and changing set up and gear on his kit and suffered damage as a result? If he has it wouldn't be fair to blame every drummer for what's happened but it would be fair for him to draw a line in the sand and blanket not allow other people to touch his setup in my opinion.
This band must have had support acts in the past, what did they do?
Why has the drummer not spoken? Maybe he genuinely isn't available and is working long/unsociable hours rather than being a wimp that's afraid to speak to you.

Solutions, speak to the soundmen. All you've had so far is someone's opinion of what the soundmen don't want to do, not their opinion from the horses mouth. I've performed at a gig where every drummer on a 4 band bill sound checked their own gear then set their kits up behind the stage with the exception of the headliner who had a massive kit in place on a riser. After our set I stood up and was almost knocked down as several crew picked my kit up and exited stage left with it while other crew brought the next kit on from stage right. It's do able. Even if it's a 4 piece kit with bass and snare only, it's do able.
Again this is my opinion, if you were a headliner and facing unreasonable demands, such as being told by someone who hadn't paid £3000 for your equipment that you must let other people use your gear, then telling the organiser to stick their gig and walking away would be a valid "negotiating" tactic. You would be the headliner, without you there would be no gig. However as the opener and performing your second gig in public my opinion is that you work with the sound crew, find a way around it and just do the gig. Being the band that overcame adversity and played a blinder will work far better than being the band that walked away from their second gig because they couldn't take the heat. I'm not saying that you can't take the heat and I don't believe that you can't take the heat either, but what I'm saying is that that could be the perception from other people.
4 piece, bass and snare mic'd, a mere two channels on the PA desk, set up to the side of the stage as opposed to in front of the kit if space is at a premium, job done.
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:47 PM
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2bsticks 2bsticks is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

I say bring your kit. Like the others say speak to the sound guy. He has to understand your position. The least he can do is mic your bass and give you an overhead mic.
I go through this a lot being an a oldies band. I received a call yesterday out of the blue from a woman asking what type of kit I have, what type of cymbals, how many pieces etc. I'm playing a show Sept, 9 and turns out Jimmy Osmond from the Osmond Bros. is performing inbetween our sets and without me knowing they are using our back line. I emailed our leader and wen off on him a bit, just a misunderstanding. Not the first time this happened but I go with the flow.
Good luck, they should accommodate you or maybe you don't play. Keep us posted.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by 2bsticks View Post
I received a call yesterday out of the blue from a woman asking what type of kit I have, what type of cymbals, how many pieces etc. I'm playing a show Sept, 9 and turns out Jimmy Osmond from the Osmond Bros. is performing inbetween our sets and without me knowing they are using our back line. I emailed our leader and wen off on him a bit, just a misunderstanding. Not the first time this happened but I go with the flow.
Good luck, they should accommodate you or maybe you don't play. Keep us posted.
Easy way to handle that. Tell them what you're using and then say talk me through your set up and where you're setting the kit up. Nobody should offer your gear out regardless of how many teeth their front man might have!

Re the OP, take your own kit. There's no rule that says only bring breakables if you're supporting, maybe it works at an original gig with lots of bands on the bill and a house kit or someone stupid enough to let strangers thrash their kit. Don't rely on someone you don't know and most likely will never meet again to let you use anything and don't be offended if they wont let you use their kit. That's the beauty of owning something, you can say no. You don't see guitarists doing it.

Bit of a crappy move if the sound guy won't move a couple of mics, can't see it being a problem.

If you all bring your own gear it's just more professional and shows your not reliant on anyone else. Plus you play better on your own kit.

I had a gig last year with another band on the bill and that's odd for me. We were told to use their back line but took our own and the sound guy was cool with it. The other band were even cooler with it because they got to go home earlier.
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Bring your own kit, mic the kick and maybe have an overhead.

Play the crap out of your set, and have fun.
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Bring your kit. Bring your mics. If the soundman won't move mics, you do it. If anyone says anything, go on the offensive. Be a dick. Everyone else is. F them. No one will give you your rights, you have to take them like a man.

It's very freeing, playing the dick card. It's real power, you need that.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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It's very freeing, playing the dick card.
Not that Larry would know.

He's to busy giving away cool stuff. :)
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Bring your kit. Bring your mics. If the soundman won't move mics, you do it. If anyone says anything, go on the offensive. Be a dick. Everyone else is. F them. No one will give you your rights, you have to take them like a man.

It's very freeing, playing the dick card. It's real power, you need that.
Yeah, I like this.

And if you don't develop a big ego, you'll never become a great musician.... LOL

.
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  #21  
Old 08-26-2017, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Quote:
but then the guitarist raised the point that the soundman wouldn't want to put mics on 2 kits (even if I supply my own!) so even if I brought my own kit no one would hear it!

This sounds ridiculous! You're talking to the wrong person. You need to talk to the sound ppl, they can't be that stupid, if they are do what larryace suggests.
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2017, 12:25 PM
rmac86 rmac86 is offline
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

Hi guys,

Feel I should report back on this one. Wasn't as bad an outcome as I had expected.

In the end the drummer of the headline act got in touch (literally at the 11th hour as I was just about to pull the plug) and we agreed that it would be a logistical nightmare to be swapping around a left handed complex kit plus mics etc. The solution we both agreed on was that I could set up my drums on the stage first then remove them quickly at the end. This would be while he sets up off the stage, just having to lift the kit on when I was finished - great solution!

However when I arrived I discovered to my horror that we were no longer playing on an open-air stage but crammed into a small upstairs bar, which meant having to carry heavy equipment up 3 flights of stairs - not good for my back! On arrival we were greeted by the headline act who in fairness were very friendly and accomodating, unlike the soundman. I asked the sound engineer how much stage space I could use to which he replied - "I don't give a damn how much space you use - I'm going home now". Charming I thought, but pretty much set the tone for the rest of the evening.

Once we all got set up there was a very quick soundcheck of only 20-30 seconds, but with no drum mics. The sound engineer had decided to show up at this point so I asked him if we were micing drums at all to which I got a scowl like I had just killed his dog or something. He then threw a battered looking bass mic in front of the kick and said "that's all you're getting". I decided no to let him annoy me any further, as this scenario in the past would have resulted in me simply getting up and walking out.

Anyway, we played our gig to a very receptive crowd and with only minor mistakes (no one noticed!) the show was a great success. Upon finishing the rest of the band helped me take down my gear which took all of 15 minutes, enabling the other band to get set up pretty much immediately. We even got very nice compliments from the headline act and got asked to support at future gigs!

All in all a good experience (ignoring grumpy sound engineer), and good publicity for the group.

Thanks for the input guys!


Thanks,

R
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  #23  
Old 09-17-2017, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Sharing a stage/drums

hand the drummer a snickers bar and say call me when your done being a whiny F'in Bit_h and your ready to give a performace and have a good time..

Until then eat a Di_K..

But thats just me dont be me Im an ahole.. Thats what my wife tells me. But I respond with my training is never complete so im not a complete ahole..
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