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  #1  
Old 08-01-2017, 08:59 PM
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mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
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Default Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

This morning I decided that I would make the trek across town and hit up my favorite music store. This place is the biggest and most well supplied Mom & Pop joint in New Mexico - Grandma's Music & Sound- I love going there!

Well, when I pulled up today I saw a big dumpster located in the parking lot. I didn't really think much of it due to the fact that they announced a few months ago that they were going to move to another location. As soon as I walked into the store, I'm hit by this felling of doom; the whole store is practically an empty shell of its former self. but I figured that I would look around and see if there were any odds and ends that I might want and then find out where they were moving to.

As I'm walking around looking at the little trinkets of gear left (no actual instruments were present), I overheard the owner telling a customer that it'll all be over in less than 2 weeks. This left me with a big streak of sadness.

With only 11 pairs of drum sticks left in the store, I picked out a pair of Zildjian 5As and a couple of drum keys and made my way to the register and paid the $10 they asked. The salesman said they were informed over the weekend that the store would be closing.

Online sales claim another one!

I'm as guilty of buying online as the next guy. Just a month ago or so I got a $25 coupon from Sam Ash and used it to buy a new bass drum batter head - I got it for 21 bucks! Good deal I thought. But knowing now what I wish I knew then, I would have gladly paid more for it here in town. Probably wouldn't have helped at that point though.

Were losing a piece of our culture everyday. Only Guitar Center and Music Go Round are left here.

Brick & Mortar are turning to Ash & Dust.
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2017, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Things are changing. Everything is changing. I don't miss going to stores. I kind of dig the convenience and the variety to be had. No stupid "it's my first day" sales personnel to deal with.

GC won't last either IMO. None of them will, except in an online way, eventually. My local GC used to be a vibrant place. Now the guitar guy also runs the drum shop, because there's like 2 customers there.

I like buying online. Stores days are numbered. Not all, but most stuff at the major big box stores can be had online.
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  #3  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

It's funny how the independent shops used to lament about Guitar Center hurting their business. Yet GC's selection is very pedestrian and incomplete, and their prices aren't very good, considering their buying power and notorious price negotiations. Indeed, GC could have a real reason to be a threat, but they're not. Shopping online has become the way to go in many cases, and GC has allowed that to happen by not being willing to become the b&m store they were capable of being, and in hindsight, need to be in order to survive.

Bermuda
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It's funny how the independent shops used to lament about Guitar Center hurting their business. Yet GC's selection is very pedestrian and incomplete, and their prices aren't very good, considering their buying power and notorious price negotiations. Indeed, GC could have a real reason to be a threat, but they're not. Shopping online has become the way to go in many cases, and GC has allowed that to happen by not being willing to become the b&m store they were capable of being, and in hindsight, need to be in order to survive.

Bermuda
Well, GC is an online store with Musicians Friend and Music 123. So maybe they don't mind if the brick and mortar stores go under too?
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2017, 11:47 PM
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Destroyer772 Destroyer772 is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

When we got our Saturn's, I had it all set up to purchased at Greenbrier Music (Online). Prices were set and I was satisfied with the final number, there was hardware involved to. As the day drew near and I got closer to a lump sum payment from my job that went to Mexico (18 years at that job as machinist). I said there is that small drum store about 60 miles up the road that would love that business, lets see if they can price match. The owner was like (yea we can do that) I made a couple visits to the store to meet the owner and employees, dropping $3500 is a big deal to me. Deal was the same as greenbrier price match and no tax. Got my money and we went up to make the order, the other worker is like the main guy under the owner, he was excited and friendly. When the final numbers came up it was around $400 higher then expected, I said the deal was no tax. His demeanor went south quick and he called the owner to make sure it was cool. He had to go make and redo the price's so it would come out the same but with tax. I was trying to make conversation talking about my cymbal set-up, and he just made me fell like a complete Idiot from that time forward. Kept asking me if I knew what I was buying, I was particular about my Stands (why shouldn't I be). I even made another purchase after that of around $1000 to try and build a relationship with this retailer thinking we could both benefit. Then I got that sweet deal on my Walnut Renown's at Drum Center of Portsmouth, they got upset that I did not involve them (WTF), I have never heard of a three way deal with 2 retailers. Anyway they didnt carry much so If I wanted anything it was still buying online thru them. Im sorry but my money is tight, I have to find the best deal. If it wasn't for deals I would have nothing. I am a online shopper now for good, I gave them a chance and it didn't work. Sorry to be long winded but I have wanted to get that off my chest for a while. Another thing,I had them put a EMAD2 on the Saturn Kick, I still wanted the original bass head with logo, It got lost to never be found.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

This was the only "fully equipped" music store around. GC and Music Go Round fail by comparison. It was also a fun place to hang out. When I bought a new snare dum off Ebay, I was so psyched about it that I drove over there on a Saturday morning just to show the two Drum dept. guys. The first thing they wanted to do was hear it. One of them got a stand and put the drum on it and began playing. He said he loved the way it was tuned. They had great customer relations. I may not have bought that snare drum from them, but I made up for it with a multitude of other purchases.

It was more than a retail store, it was a place to buy, browse, and hang out and talk with other musicians.

You can buy and browse online, but you can't hang and talk with other musicians.

Drummerworld excluded.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:37 AM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

My feeling is a music store should be an internet online shopping experience before it's a storefront.

Like Memphis Drum Shop or Drumcenter of Portsmouth, I should be able to buy anything they have online or just walk in to get my simple sundries, knowing that if I talk or communicate with the salespeople they will also be knowledgeable and helpful.
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I don't know if GC is trying re-invent themselves regarding drums (renaming the drum department) or is actually developing a high-end drum shop at select locations:

https://www.facebook.com/glenn.noyes...55563902347630

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Destination-Drum-Shop.gc
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2017, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It's funny how the independent shops used to lament about Guitar Center hurting their business. Yet GC's selection is very pedestrian and incomplete, and their prices aren't very good, considering their buying power and notorious price negotiations. Indeed, GC could have a real reason to be a threat, but they're not. Shopping online has become the way to go in many cases, and GC has allowed that to happen by not being willing to become the b&m store they were capable of being, and in hindsight, need to be in order to survive.

Bermuda
EXACTLY!

GC drum departments have become very pedestrian.

Mike

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  #10  
Old 08-02-2017, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Adelaide's biggest drum shop (John Reynold's Music City) finally closed last weekend after 40 years. He actually sold it to a music chain 8 years ago, then bought it back from them 4 years ago when they messed up.

Last weekend was no surprise though - a real estate developer was offering millions for the site 12 months ago, planning to build an apartment block. So for 12 months the store has been selling off stock without replacing it, ready for the closing down. Instead of 50 kits on display, there have been about 3.

Now the real estate deal has fallen through, so after a year of minimal sales, the shop is now in receivership and closed. A sad ending to a 40 year story.
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2017, 04:17 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I guess I'm in the shrug department on this one. I feel sorry for people who tried to make it as a brick and mortar music shop business, but realistically, it's just an idea of the past. Like book stores before them.

Even if you think it's sad I don't know what you can do. Things change and it's sometimes frightening and confusing and sad (a lot of things make me feel that way) but you really can't stop change. You can try to prop up your local store, but they probably buy their stuff from an online retailer, so it's kind of an illusion.

It reminds me of when I went to Yellowstone last year. After we saw Old Faithful we went to the gift shop, and at the same time there were about five buses of Chinese tourists walking through the shop and looking for souvenirs. And this Chinese couple in front of me picked up a "real, authentic" driftwood keychain with "Yellowstone" written on it, turned it over, disgustedly read aloud "Made in China?!?!" and threw it back into the bin.
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2017, 07:04 AM
81MC 81MC is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I will lament the day there is not an independent, real life, locally owned, personally stocked, community music store in my city.
Yes, they often don't always have precisely what I was looking to purchase or the rock-bottom lowest pricing. But they are tremendous resources for sharing, learning, experimenting and maybe purchasing something on its own merit. To me a wonderful thing about instruments is the individuality of them; what I read a review about, see a big name artist endorse, and can get for prime price may actually not be the right fit for what I'm looking for. My local drum shop carries cymbals and kits that are not the first thing someone looking to buy cymbals may google-search, but you have the ability to discuss, play and hear this equipment. Not to mention chat with like minded people in a great environment.
Just in my last trip I bought 'new' backline heads for less than a single one from a chain, some miscellaneous used hardware, a 50s maple Slingerland, an old Zildjian crash etc. Were I to keyboard shop, I'd probably have ended up with a new off the shelf snare I'd never heard, the same heads I'd been playing for ever... but no crash, because I can't possibly imagine doing that online with anything other than some B8s.
Support the people who live in your town and provide local economy. I am truly saddened to think our children may not understand Community can be deeper than the Starbucks, Walmart and Chapters built into every 'neighbourhood' strip mall.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

^^^^ I've already had a good taste of not having local options to see or hear anything I'm looking for. We have GCs in my area, but every store carries the exact same thing, SPL, PDP, DW and nothing in between and three lines of cymbals. I had to roll the dice on my cymbals and hope for the best after listening to a slew of YouTube videos. Buying cymbals that way makes everyone on this forum cringe, but I ran out of options. I also keep reading recommendations about playing each drum set being contemplated, so pretty surprised most comments so far have been about the joys of buying online.

One thing is for sure. I'll save money when all drum shops are gone. I'm hard pressed to buy anything without seeing it, so likely won't make a move on much. I finally went into a GC store in Southern California and thought I had died and gone to heaven. Finally got to see a Mapex, Yamaha, Sonor, And Tama models I've only seen in pics. Got to play them all too. What a concept! It actually felt and looked like a real Drum Shop. Haven't seen one of those in over a decade.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2017, 11:18 AM
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Mike Stand Mike Stand is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Yup, online sales is the future...in fact, it's already the present, very much so.

However, I think a lot of us older folks are forgetting something important.

We might have the experience and knowledge to make purchase choices without having the product physically at hand.

But when a young musician starts out, they have absolutely no idea whatsoever about the different brands and types of instruments available. Paiste or Zildjian or Sabian? Remo or Evans or Aquarian? Thin cymbals or heavy cymbals? Maple or birch or who-knows-what? Never mind the myriad of drumhead choices... and pedals and hardware... etc etc etc...

I think it's imperative that a beginner have the opportuity to try out gear in a proper showroom. I would have no idea what to order online if I hadn't already refined my appreciation of different products over the years.

When I was a teenager I would get up at 5 oclock in the morning, walk a mile to the train station, get a cheap, slow train connection (2 trains) and end up at 9h30 in front of the largest music store in the country (30 minutes before opening time). It was like arriving at the doors of heaven. I went into that store completely clueless, and hence completely unbiased. I find that many of my early experiences there helped me forge my preferences in regards to drum gear.

Of course, the quality instrument market is a small niche, especially drums. For a store to thrive it has to be run by competent and committed staff (musicians) who also are business savvy. I think the stores that are doing alright now are those that are run by drummers who have heavily branched out into online sales. A good combination between a brick and mortar base and a virtual sales site. The additional online sales is what allows the store to be well stocked. The local demand on it's own would not be enough.

I've seen too many stores that just aren't well stocked and the staff are of little help. There's just no point in having them around. I think a little consolidation of the market might be a good thing. I hate to say it, but a smaller number of stronger retailers competing nationally might be a good thing. In the UK, a lot of independants have gone bust. But there's a very respactable chain called PMT with good staff and stock. They're opening stores in more and more towns. In France there's a retailer that started as a purely online business, they now have two stores. So maybe these "big players" will eventually rejuvenate the "local scenes". Of course, European countries are simply a lot smaller than Canada and the USA. I was in Manchester two years ago and wanted to try some hats, not in stock. PMT simply had them transferred with some other stock from their Leeds store that same day so I could try them out.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
I will lament the day there is not an independent, real life, locally owned, personally stocked, community music store in my city.
Yes, they often don't always have precisely what I was looking to purchase or the rock-bottom lowest pricing. But they are tremendous resources for sharing, learning, experimenting and maybe purchasing something on its own merit. To me a wonderful thing about instruments is the individuality of them; what I read a review about, see a big name artist endorse, and can get for prime price may actually not be the right fit for what I'm looking for. My local drum shop carries cymbals and kits that are not the first thing someone looking to buy cymbals may google-search, but you have the ability to discuss, play and hear this equipment. Not to mention chat with like minded people in a great environment.

Support the people who live in your town and provide local economy. I am truly saddened to think our children may not understand Community can be deeper than the Starbucks, Walmart and Chapters built into every 'neighbourhood' strip mall.
Absolutely bang on sir.

Sadly, this has happened in my neck of the woods in England. There's no independent drum shops and hasn't been for 5 years.

Birmingham Drum Centre was the last to go and that was the UKs largest independent store (I think). That place was massive but lived beyond its means.

Online isn't any cheaper here, postage costs are extortionate and take away any online discount you might get.

I really miss the little upstairs shop I used to go to that had a great 2nd hand section. It was ran by drummers for drummers so you never got ripped off and they only sold stuff you needed and they were great for advice and spare parts.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:41 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Well a business strategist might make the point to a larger dealer that adopting a nationwide agressive pricing policy to eliminate the smaller competition is a pretty good move.

Once you have a situation of oligopoly, you can make three or four phone calls and set prices and squeeze manufacturers, a practice better known as colluding.

Whether this is done purposefully or naturally, less and less competition will in the end be bad for the consumer and splendid for the few at the top.

Taken in a macro perspective extended to every aspect of online buying, one could expect boarded up windows and decrepit commercial strips in his neighbourhood , more people on the streets as everyone can not work for amazon and the like.

Add a good dose of IA and start laying down the bricks of one puzzling future.
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Absolutely bang on sir.

Sadly, this has happened in my neck of the woods in England. There's no independent drum shops and hasn't been for 5 years.

Birmingham Drum Centre was the last to go and that was the UKs largest independent store (I think). That place was massive but lived beyond its means.

Online isn't any cheaper here, postage costs are extortionate and take away any online discount you might get.

I really miss the little upstairs shop I used to go to that had a great 2nd hand section. It was ran by drummers for drummers so you never got ripped off and they only sold stuff you needed and they were great for advice and spare parts.
I bought my BRX from there, at the time they had Terry Bozzios monster kit in there. "Get down from there" was the cry :-)

Scheerers in leeds was my shop - just your one stop shop for drums. I hate going into town but that was the only shop I would go to over ordering online. Then one day, it just disappeared.

Maybe there is a market for mobile showrooms. A third party is hired by major manufacturers to showcase their new gear round the country every week. People can play, try them out, turn it into a showcase of new gear.

^ completely pie in the sky as they wouldn't want to share
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post
Maybe there is a market for mobile showrooms. A third party is hired by major manufacturers to showcase their new gear round the country every week. People can play, try them out, turn it into a showcase of new gear.

^ completely pie in the sky as they wouldn't want to share
There's the drum shows which seem to be a bit more popular these days which are kind of a mobile show room.

The Vintage Drum Fayre is near me but it can be a bit hit and miss. There are collectors that show up and have a look at what I've got stand.

Never done the London show but I'm off to the one in Manchester in September. Just to see Chambers and Lang more than anything. Still gutted I'm not about for the Sunday or JR on Saturday.

There's a couple of things I'm after and hopefully there's show deals on.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
Well a business strategist might make the point to a larger dealer that adopting a nationwide agressive pricing policy to eliminate the smaller competition is a pretty good move.

Once you have a situation of oligopoly, you can make three or four phone calls and set prices and squeeze manufacturers, a practice better known as colluding.

Whether this is done purposefully or naturally, less and less competition will in the end be bad for the consumer and splendid for the few at the top.

Taken in a macro perspective extended to every aspect of online buying, one could expect boarded up windows and decrepit commercial strips in his neighbourhood , more people on the streets as everyone can not work for amazon and the like.

Add a good dose of IA and start laying down the bricks of one puzzling future.
I can definately understand your argument and concern. We live in the age of massive multi-national companies that completely dominate our economies.

However, I don't see the drum business as something which would naturally fit into that context and scale of things (not just yet anyway). It's a comparatively small niche and certainly too complex and not sufficiently lucrative for it to develope into something comparable to other larger market sectors (food retail, electronics, entertainment, etc). IMO, this is why drum retail is having a tough time. It's just a really small and tough market to survive in. I think it might be preferable for everyone to have a few healthy "big players" instead of lots of small outlets that barely scrape by and can't offer much.

Perhaps Amazon and Walmart can make a healthy profit despite low margins because of the volume of sales of ordinary items, everything from batteries to electronics, DVDs, etc. Drum gear is not what I consider "an ordinary item" though. It's the kind of product which is much more "personal" and will always require much more effort to sell, and the market will always be small by comparison. So when I say that consolidation could be a good thing, I'm not thinking on the level of a large "corporation" but rather mid-size specialist chains or larger single stores that do internet sales as well. Seems to work for PMT in the UK and Memphis Drum Shop as well as others in the USA.

On a final note, I think consumers need to ease up a little in regards to prices. Trying to always get the best possible deal is detrimental to the business that provides the gear we love. 20€ more or less for a new drum kit is negligable over the long term, except for the least well off amongst us. A few cents more for some heads or sticks, is it really going to make a big difference to us?However, that exta 3% off the sale price each time can perhaps mean the difference between breaking even or going bust for a retailer. I'm tight when it comes to certain things, but for drum gear I don't like going into scrooge mode. And I say that as one of the "less well off" (I have the payslip to back up that claim!).
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I just had another thought... (this thread has really got me going)

We are really spoilt for choice of gear today compared to 20 years ago.

What if this choice has contributed to the decline of drumshops?

Just think, a drummer goes into a store that's well stocked with both the Remo and Evans range. The guy says "sorry, I use Aquarian"... it would have to be a special order so the guy decides to order online because it's quicker and cheaper. Or even worse, a drummer goes into a store and wants a Zildjian Avedis crash cymbal. The store has a whole range of Avedis crash cymbals... but not the one the Customer is looking for. That's a lot of expensive stock sitting on the shelves that the retailer needs to sell, but it's still not enough to convert most shoppers into buying customers.

Admit it, we're a difficult bunch at times. The industry has developed an enormous number of different products to satisfy our every little desire for the perfect gear that fits our personal taste.

How can a respectably stocked shop survive if perhaps even half of the potential customers don't want what's in stock? And it is simply not possible for any single retailer to have everything in stock without overextending themselves financially. Must have been much easier back in the day when the choice was just Remo Ambassador or Emperor or Pinstripe, or the Evans equivalent. Same with cymbals...

Next time you browse your an internet retailer site just take in how much choice there is. If I want to order a drumhead online, it takes about 10 to 15 clicks just to get to the right page...
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:04 PM
60's Drummer 60's Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Were losing a piece of our culture everyday. Only Guitar Center and Music Go Round are left here.

Brick & Mortar are turning to Ash & Dust.
Are you old enough to remember Nick Luchetti's Drum Shop in Abq? Miss the heck out of those kind of places ....
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:29 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stand View Post
I just had another thought... (this thread has really got me going)

We are really spoilt for choice of gear today compared to 20 years ago.

What if this choice has contributed to the decline of drumshops?

Just think, a drummer goes into a store that's well stocked with both the Remo and Evans range. The guy says "sorry, I use Aquarian"... it would have to be a special order so the guy decides to order online because it's quicker and cheaper. Or even worse, a drummer goes into a store and wants a Zildjian Avedis crash cymbal. The store has a whole range of Avedis crash cymbals... but not the one the Customer is looking for. That's a lot of expensive stock sitting on the shelves that the retailer needs to sell, but it's still not enough to convert most shoppers into buying customers.

Admit it, we're a difficult bunch at times. The industry has developed an enormous number of different products to satisfy our every little desire for the perfect gear that fits our personal taste.

How can a respectably stocked shop survive if perhaps even half of the potential customers don't want what's in stock? And it is simply not possible for any single retailer to have everything in stock without overextending themselves financially. Must have been much easier back in the day when the choice was just Remo Ambassador or Emperor or Pinstripe, or the Evans equivalent. Same with cymbals...

Next time you browse your an internet retailer site just take in how much choice there is. If I want to order a drumhead online, it takes about 10 to 15 clicks just to get to the right page...
Excellent contributions Mike, a lot to digest in those lines.

One of my concerns relates to choice as you mentionned. Fewer players would probably translate into less choices the way I see it. I just went to memphis drum shop's website "new items" list, where do they put all those stock cymbals ? Incredible.

We definitely are a tough bunch, I think I spend more time purchasing a splash cymbal than I do for a car...
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:13 PM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Well a business strategist might make the point to a larger dealer that adopting a nationwide agressive pricing policy to eliminate the smaller competition is a pretty good move.
I don't know why someone would think that was the intent. Why would a big online retailer care about Papa Joe's Drum Shop? Papa Joe has to pay an employee to pick his nose and tell you to stop messing with the display kits. He has to pay rent and electricity and upkeep in a single location. All of that inflates his bottom line. He's no threat.

The closing of local businesses is a side effect of the online businesses having the infrastructure, finances, and influence to offer more competitive pricing. Add in to that the subsidies (Amazon famously receives subsidized pricing on their shipping) and the end result is pretty predictable.

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Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
Once you have a situation of oligopoly, you can make three or four phone calls and set prices and squeeze manufacturers, a practice better known as colluding.
Well, realistically the most famous instances of oligopoly/monopoly in the past few decades have involved the government and crony abuse of regulation. A recent example is the FAA defending the airline cartels for shrinking seats and legroom.

It's like this Net Neutrality thing: there's a reason people are against it, and it's not that we don't "know our best interests". We're told that if we don't give the Internet to the government, the corporations will take it. I'm not sure which is the better scenario there ...

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Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
one could expect boarded up windows and decrepit commercial strips in his neighbourhood , more people on the streets as everyone can not work for amazon and the like.

Add a good dose of IA and start laying down the bricks of one puzzling future.
It's definitely uncharted waters. Automation is taking a lot of low-level service jobs. Online retail is taking over local retail. Guess we'll just have to see where it goes.
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2017, 09:47 PM
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mmulcahy1 mmulcahy1 is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by 60's Drummer View Post
Are you old enough to remember Nick Luchetti's Drum Shop in Abq? Miss the heck out of those kind of places ....
I do remember Luchetti's Drum Shop, it closed down about 15 years or so ago. I think he's teaching guitar now at a local shop that caters to school instruments now.
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Old 08-02-2017, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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It's funny how the independent shops used to lament about Guitar Center hurting their business. Yet GC's selection is very pedestrian and incomplete, and their prices aren't very good, considering their buying power and notorious price negotiations. Indeed, GC could have a real reason to be a threat, but they're not. Shopping online has become the way to go in many cases, and GC has allowed that to happen by not being willing to become the b&m store they were capable of being, and in hindsight, need to be in order to survive.

Bermuda
Agree.

Competing with GC isn't that difficult for most retailers. Afterall, GC has been around since 1959.

Competing with the internet is what has made retailers fail.

Numerous online only shops popped up over the years that have near zero over heard, they don't pay for a fancy store front, have minimal products in stock, a few to no employees.

They operate on the principal of you place an order, they order it from the manufacture, and have it shipped to you, and then just charge you pennies on the dollar for being a middle man.

What used to happen to me when I worked retail was I've meet a drummer, I'd spent hours discussing all the shell options, color options, put together just what the customer wanted. Then they'd pull out a sheet downloaded from internet site with a low quote. Mind you, the internet site didn't spend any time with client, didn't answer any of the clients questions, and didn't discuss any options. And by the end of it, I'd make around 7 cents an hour for 5 to 6 hours of my time.

So of course one day I realized selling drums in a shop is not just a dead end career, it's a dead career. No different than telephone operators or one hour photo booths.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:37 PM
60's Drummer 60's Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Well, GC is an online store with Musicians Friend and Music 123. So maybe they don't mind if the brick and mortar stores go under too?
GC is paying for a *lot* of brick and mortar, actually. They would mind. Sweetwater and amazon aren't. GC has its problems ->

http://www.promusic.news/guitars/moo...e-end-in-sight
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2017, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

With Sweetwater and other's offering these Play as you Pay plans. Pay 1/3 down and get it shipped same day. How can you turn that down, It's better then buying used.
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Most things move on and transform.
My life has been full of moving on from the progress of the world.
It's a good thing to let go and to move on.

I started working in my family's business which was printing, and selling checks and forms for the One Rite accounting system. Before computers.

I went to school for graphic design and prepress, got a job in a printing company doing high end drum scanning, color correction, trapping, etc. They went bust because china was cheaper and people didn't want to buy printed paper anymore.

So I went to a famous industrial design company. It was great, until the market crashed and they went out of business.

Then I worked for a great beer company, but the beer company sent out a tweet that ruined their reputation, so they closed the company.
I'm a trained brewer, but brewing is no fun and the market is saturated with contract beers. Just like internet companies, they have no overhead and can run the small breweries out of business while they work their other "real jobs".

I've been working as a carpenter for the last bunch of years and there seems to be no sign of it slowing down.
I don't like being a carpenter, so I got certified as a personal trainer and will hopefully be helping people to transform their lives for the better.
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:15 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Yeah, and now with drummerworld, I don't even need to leave the house to get bad musical advice and tips on useless gear.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2017, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I recently purchased my first acoustic drum set after playing electronic drums for a while. So I didn't really know what I wanted, and spent months looking at stuff online, trying to figure out what to get. It was impossible because I couldn't actually see and try the drums, all I could do was look at a tiny picture on a website. I didn't even know what size kick drum to get, or if a 24" would be too big to be able to adjust the toms the way I wanted them. So I finally decided to go to the local drum shop; I guess the reason it took so long is because it's about 30 minutes drive for me and I really hate driving, but I was on the way home from something on the other side of it so I stopped in. I ended up buying some drums that day, because I could try them and knew that they were what I wanted and they were the right size for me and all that. The owner of the store was there and he was very helpful and knowledgeable, and I feel like I got a better deal on the drums than I would have online, even. ($500 for slightly used Yamaha Stage Customs.) I know in the future stores like that won't be available and it's kind of scary. Drums are a big commitment, you want to get what you want, and just blindly ordering something online without having ever seen or played it is not the best way. But I understand stores can't always stay in business. Anyway it feels good to have supported a local business with my purchase!
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  #31  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post





Brick & Mortar are turning to Ash & Dust.
Metallica kinda rings true here..sad but true.

It IS a sign of the times, sadly, a sign that nobody gave a crap about, until it hits home. :/

Its everywhere bro.

(Well, in the us. Other countries are getting prosperous, but..and a big but...that moneys gotta come from somewhere..)

Sad but true.
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  #32  
Old 08-09-2017, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
I guess I'm in the shrug department on this one. I feel sorry for people who tried to make it as a brick and mortar music shop business, but realistically, it's just an idea of the past. Like book stores before them.

Even if you think it's sad I don't know what you can do. Things change and it's sometimes frightening and confusing and sad (a lot of things make me feel that way) but you really can't stop change. You can try to prop up your local store, but they probably buy their stuff from an online retailer, so it's kind of an illusion.

It reminds me of when I went to Yellowstone last year. After we saw Old Faithful we went to the gift shop, and at the same time there were about five buses of Chinese tourists walking through the shop and looking for souvenirs. And this Chinese couple in front of me picked up a "real, authentic" driftwood keychain with "Yellowstone" written on it, turned it over, disgustedly read aloud "Made in China?!?!" and threw it back into the bin.
In the Chinese stores, on the back it says, Made..right around the corner.
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I had a conversation w/ one of my interns* yesterday about retail brick and mortar shopping (in general) vs. online shopping, specifically Amazon.

The conversation included:
  • The death of the traditional 70s-90s style shopping malls
    There are several articles and analyses of how open-air "town centers" are replacing the old enclosed type of malls.
  • Walmart's impact on small, independent retailers
    We've all heard about mom & pop stores going out of business because of Walmart. Huffy Bicycles' demise has even been put at Walmat's feet.
  • Online grocery ordering & curbside pickup (specifically Kroger's system)
    Kroger's system is called "Clicklist" -essentially you order your groceries online, a picker gets them, and pick up the order at the store -not having to spend time in check out or deli lines or walking up and down isles and spontaneously adding more things that you didn't intend too. We talked about P.O.S. items and how stores grocery or department, have traditionally put the most desirable things back away from the front doors so people have to walk past a lot of other stuff. -think about where the milk is at your grocery store.
  • Brick & mortar stores doing price matching to online prices
    Most stores will do this. Staples has been doing it on toner ink for a while now. However, differences in volume pricing/ordering among the retails, not every store can afford to do this on every item.
  • Second hand & close out stores prevalence
    Stores such as Odd Lots/Big Lots, TJ Maxx, and other close out stores and consignment stores actually do well where we are (Cincinnati, OH region). These stores have a revolving type of inventory so deal-seekers tend to visit them more frequently. But even they face online competition from the likes of ebay, poshmark, etc.
  • China's trade imbalance due to Most Favored Nation status and other policies
    I won't elaborate on this one since this is the DW forum other than to say that our conversation included: inexpensive imported goods have created incredible surplus and saturation in goods in several categories.

The conclusion was that retail and shopping is constantly changing and evolving, not always for "collective best," specialty retailers who can carry merchandise that's unique or changes over quickly have a slight advantage, and it's dangerous to quantify things as "always or never."


*I'm a financial advisor. I wish I was good enough of a drummer to have music program interns.
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2017, 05:19 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

And as everyone knows, many other b&m businesses are facing the same quandaries. The writing is on the wall, the old way...the death knell has tolled, it's on it's way out, and the future is on it's way in. There's no real stopping it, businesses are being forced to adapt.

I for one wouldn't mind not seeing all the multitudes of stores. That doesn't mean that a place like say a Home Depot will go under. Food stores. Things that are basic to human essential survival necessities. Practically everything else can be delivered straight from the manufacturer. It's so much more efficient. But tragically, it leaves economic disaster for people in expendable positions in it's wake.

IMO, online shopping...it's major convenient for the customer, but disastrous to the old way of purveying most goods. And as always happens in times of upheaval, economic opportunities abound to the type of person who can read the signs, and who can grab bulls by horns.

But scary for a lot of people.
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  #35  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

Here in Tucson, we have 2 local shops left: Rainbow Guitars & Chicago store.
Rainbow was the only retailer here in town that sold Ayotte & other lesser known brands. The staff used to be the type who'd talk with you about your instrument & answer deep questions that many other people wouldn't know.
Now it's all quick sales, rude staff & a much lesser selection. I see them being gone in the next 5-8 years.

Chicago Store has been here for-e-ver, but recently downsized in a BIG way. Went from a 3 story building downtown to a single level "shop" that barely stocks anything. The sales staff are much like Rainbow & yet they complain about GC & Sam Ash "bringing them down".
They have nothing to say IMO as how they treat people was a big reason we use their store to test out a cymbal or drum set, then went online to buy it. I just don't want to deal with the attitude and lack of respectful customer service that used to be the norm.

B&M just can't compete with the online pricing & still keep the lights on. It's just a matter of time before massive warehouses feeding an Amazon-type system of gear becomes all there is. :-(
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  #36  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I purchased the majority of my k's and a A Custom EFX (all at great prices) from Greenbrier Music. They had a great deal on a high end cymbal nearly every week. Now they dont have anything, anyone here know anything as to what happened. They used to be real big on youtube demo's, that has stopped about a year ago. Well I assume they are just another fallen store. I figured their online sales would keep them afloat.
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  #37  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:31 AM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

I saw a DW performance drum kit at guitar center for around $2300 plus tax. I bought another performance kit in the color that I wanted from an online retailer for about $1600 with no tax. I understand all of the benefits of supporting a local music store. I have done so many times in the past over the years. However in this instance, I was not going to pay hundreds of dollars more, plus tax, and not get the finish that I wanted. Additionally, I play Paiste 2002 cymbals primarily and no music stores around here have them in stock.
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  #38  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:50 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is online now
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by DrummerCA35 View Post
I saw a DW performance drum kit at guitar center for around $2300 plus tax. I bought another performance kit in the color that I wanted from an online retailer for about $1600 with no tax. I understand all of the benefits of supporting a local music store. I have done so many times in the past over the years. However in this instance, I was not going to pay hundreds of dollars more, plus tax, and not get the finish that I wanted. Additionally, I play Paiste 2002 cymbals primarily and no music stores around here have them in stock.
$1600 is what a 5pc goes for used at GC. This is exactly why losing all competition is going to be bad for the consumer. I guess we can't stop it, but my local shop offered me the same $1600 deal on a DW Performance series, while GC won't touch it. So, it's not exactly about buying power. My local shop has shrunk back their drum business to a third of what they had, so I can only assume it's a matter of time....

Oh, congrats by the way!
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2017, 05:30 PM
DrummerCA35 DrummerCA35 is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
$1600 is what a 5pc goes for used at GC. This is exactly why losing all competition is going to be bad for the consumer. I guess we can't stop it, but my local shop offered me the same $1600 deal on a DW Performance series, while GC won't touch it. So, it's not exactly about buying power. My local shop has shrunk back their drum business to a third of what they had, so I can only assume it's a matter of time....

Oh, congrats by the way!
Thanks! I'm liking my kit and have gotten compliments on it.
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  #40  
Old 08-22-2017, 07:51 PM
drumhammerer drumhammerer is offline
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Default Re: Another One (Retailer) Bites the Dust

there are simply just too many choices/options these days on everything. It's to the point that you would have to have a warehouse the size of a walmart to stock everything within reason. Back in the day music stores ordered things not in their stock, (from where? A central warehouse/direct from manufacturers?), but it took a lot longer, as there weren't as many shipping options, and it wasn't as advanced/quick as it is now with technology making it much more efficient. With websites displaying/providing access to everything imaginable from our own homes, we've all gotten much lazier, pickier, cheaper, and less able to deal with humanity, so low stock stores and their quirks make no sense, especially if you're under 30 or so. However, online shops are now bound by the manufacturer's minimum advertised price situation where no one can advertise below a certain price, so that basically took out the price competition between stores, and everyone is pretty much the same price on everything now, which sucks because you can't get deals on anything anymore, and a lot manufacturers won't even allow their items to be included in sales. But, if you have a drum shop in your town they can get around that (not talking about gc, sam ash, etc-too corporate) since manufacturers won't send anyone into an isolated store, as it's easier/cheaper to monitor websites. Cymbal prices at a drum shop near me were a bit less than the online prices, so there are still benefits to an actual store, as long as it's worth a flip. I'm also starting to get a bit more particular about sticks with the weights getting more variable, so I now prefer going to a store to make sure the weights are right as opposed to rolling the dice online. How long will I be able to do this though? It seems gc, and places like it have soured everyone's views on actual stores, so they will probably be relegated to extremely isolated 5 star type drum shops, and hobbyists doing it just for the love of it in the future. The best option to me would be offering both an online shop option, and a physical show room store in a higher traffic area for things to be tried out in.
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