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Old 07-19-2017, 11:59 AM
cemguvener cemguvener is offline
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Default Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

It is supposed to be in time and follow the form of the song.
I tried to count, failed to follow, I mean failed badly...
I guess (hope) I am not alone. Any help?
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:35 PM
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Merlin5 Merlin5 is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

Yes, it's very tricky to follow! It is all in time but his phrasing is so out there and going across the bars that it's very deceptive. It makes it difficult to hear where one is. Solo starts at 3.51 and I think he's already played 4 bars by the time he hits the crash at 3.57. I'm struggling to keep count through the whole solo but I'm hearing approximately 30 bars of solo by the time it finishes at 4:39. I think this is one where you're going to need the transcription to make sense of it all, along with a metronome. Apparently the transcription of the complete solo is in a book called Beyond Bebop by John Riley.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:40 PM
adamosmianski adamosmianski is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

The book is called Beyond Bop Drumming and yes, there is a transcription in there.

Riley also has a little breakdown of some of the ideas here: http://www.drummerworld.com/Drumclin...loconcept.html
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:55 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

It's hard to follow even with the book, and I've transcribed a lot of Elvin. If all you're trying to do is count through it, listen for the cymbal hits-- except for one measure on the bridge they're on the beat, though usually not on the 1. Elvin transcriptions usually involve a lot of compromises, because there are things happening that are extremely difficult to notate-- use of an 8th note triplet and 16th note subdivision within the same beat, for example. There also tend to be things that, even though they're rhythmically accurate as written, disguise what's actually going on with what he's playing. It takes a lot of close listening to get anywhere with his playing, if you're trying to do it in an analytic way. Good luck.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:51 PM
cemguvener cemguvener is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

Thanks a lot. I will try again by listening to cymbal beats. It may help to understand.

I am aware of the transcription in John Riley book, in fact that's how I found the song.

But rather than the transcription, I am interested in understanding how he feels the time and form while playing such complicated stuff.
At the end of the solo, they meet exactly on 1 with Larry Young, which means they were perfectly synchronized (mentally) throughout the solo. Even that seems so incredible to me. There must be a completely different way of thinking about it, a totally different approach to feel time. I hope to be able to understand a bit better.
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:47 AM
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Scott K Fish Scott K Fish is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

Trying singing the Monk's Dream melody through Elvin's solo. Sing the melody straight without embellishing it. (I was going to write: Sing the melody straight, no chaser. But that might have confused the issue.)

If Elvin's sticking to the Monk's Dream song form, chances are he's singing the melody in his head while he solo's.

Best,
skf
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:14 PM
cemguvener cemguvener is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott K Fish View Post
Trying singing the Monk's Dream melody through Elvin's solo. Sing the melody straight without embellishing it. (I was going to write: Sing the melody straight, no chaser. But that might have confused the issue.)

If Elvin's sticking to the Monk's Dream song form, chances are he's singing the melody in his head while he solo's.

Best,
skf
This may be the answer, but it seems extremely diffuclt to me. As far as I can follow, the solo has no rhytmical relationship with the melody. The phrases go over bar lines, use various strange rhytmical concepts, while the melody is pretty straightforward (yet unrelated to what he's playing). If Elvin was indeed singing the melody in his head while playing that particular solo, it is like writing a random story while discussing a completely unrelated subject. Maybe doable for some people, but for me it's next to impossible.
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:53 PM
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Scott K Fish Scott K Fish is offline
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Default Re: Elvin Jones solo in Monk's Dream - Unity by Larry Young

Understanding Elvin Jones gave me fits. I wrote about it in my blog post, The First Time I Heard Elvin Jones.

Maybe some of what I stumbled over and through will be of use.

Best,
Scott K Fish
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