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  #81  
Old 07-11-2017, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Isn't it funny that in all the years before tea-towels and until "Come Together" Ringo never had a problem going high tom to low tom?

Maybe he had "progressive left-handedness"?

;)

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  #82  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
And I can accept this.....at least in part. It was a hell of a long time ago and if nuance and subtlety get lost along the way, then I can see how.

But as he stated in the vid. The choice to run from floor to mounted toms was neither musical nor stylistic. It was a choice born out of sheer necessity. His own limitations of him being left handed and struggling to lead with the right pretty much dictated what he could or couldn't do on a drum kit.

Who is ever gonna forget such a fundamental aspect of their own playing?


Honestly, this thread is perhaps the greatest example of a forum's ability to go from the sublime to the outright bloody ridiculous, that I've ever seen. At this point, the infamous seat belt thread made more sense.

This is our very own version of Python's Black Knight claiming "No you didn't cut off my arm. It's only a flesh wound".





Gold!!
Gold indeed. Another horse analogy, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Ringo shows the drum lick to a show host with complete explanation, but, it was a long time ago he must have a bad memory, or I have a recording broken down using an oscilloscope so there is now way. Really. Oh yeah, and beat a dead horse. Horses running wild on this thread, LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_gMcma9hY
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  #83  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by dwsabianguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky View Post
Here's another video (with people arguing it up in the comments), this guy does it on 3 toms, which kind of makes sense as Ringo had 3 at the time, why not use them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSPZcPHsl_U
Listening side by side to the above videos, I'd say this is quite definitive. l don't hear ascending notes starting from floor tom.

Starting with the left hand, descending over 3 toms. The last 5 strokes being split between 2nd, 1st and floor toms.

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  #84  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
....and here is Ringo's setups during Abbey Road and other sessions

https://www.ringosbeatlekits.com/lud...-drum-set.html
I have often wondered why Ringo had his toms on a mount in front of his bass drum when the bass has the post mount on the *bass itself.


* In most of the pictures I've seen.
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  #85  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Gold indeed. Another horse analogy, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Ringo shows the drum lick to a show host with complete explanation, but, it was a long time ago he must have a bad memory, or I have a recording broken down using an oscilloscope so there is now way. Really. Oh yeah, and beat a dead horse. Horses running wild on this thread, LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_gMcma9hY
A scope reading won't tell you much considering the damping situation. I've seen a lot of instances where there were no or less damping on the rack tom and the floor was more heavily damped. I would bet you money that I could fool the ear and a scope using nothing but towels and old-style production techniques.

They recorded with a stereo image, right?
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  #86  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
A scope reading won't tell you much considering the damping situation. I've seen a lot of instances where there were no or less damping on the rack tom and the floor was more heavily damped. I would bet you money that I could fool the ear and a scope using nothing but towels and old-style production techniques.

They recorded with a stereo image, right?
I would agree. Just playing devils advocate to all of the doubters and misbelievers
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  #87  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

I can't believe there is not one video of Ringo playing it live! I have searched and no luck.

I find the discussion interesting but for all intents and purposes play what you hear and I hear high to low, regardless of how the sound is produced.
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  #88  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by drummer-russ View Post
I can't believe there is not one video of Ringo playing it live! I have searched and no luck.

I find the discussion interesting but for all intents and purposes play what you hear and I hear high to low, regardless of how the sound is produced.
There's precious little stuff of the beats playing live. I looked too. Only one I could find I really couldn't tell if it was Ringo, but I don't think it was. The entire part was played differently, and whomever it was definitely went high to low.

I pretty much always play it high to low, too. Most of the time I'm not playing it with towels all over and I think high-low is a closer approximation of the sounds I hear from the album... Still doesn't mean I'm willing to call the guy who wrote the part a liar. It probably wouldn't even be an argument at all if he hadn't gone and said that, more than once, and in lots of detail...
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  #89  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

OMG this thread is hilarious. If we get electron microscopes and look at the tea towel factor....

It's the triplet rhythm, not the individual tones, that do it for me.

If a drummer would play it from middle to high to low on wide open resonant toms...as long as the swampy feel was there, the individual tones to me don't matter....

Are the other instruments faithfully copying the tone of the original recording of their respective instruments? Only if they are, am I required to.

That's why I don't worry about copping the exact drum part for a song I'm covering, because my bass player for sure isn't learning the exact same bass guitar part, or copping the same bass sound. Same for the guitar part. Artistic license. I have to maximize my playing to what's going on onstage. I have to balance the original feel, with what I have to work with.

It's the triplet feel with the evenly rising volume dynamic (that's how I hear it)...against Sir Paul's GREAT low to high bass line...that's what drives that part IMO. The bass line gets overlooked.

The tone that was on the recording...that was a moment frozen in time. Everyone understands that. I don't think people expect an exact replica, just like they don't expect an exact replica of any other song they hear live. They want the band to capture the feeling of the song. That's what matters.

I'd argue that some newer versions surpass the original. Standing in the Shadows of Motown...OMG the way Joan Osbourne does Jimmy Ruffin's "What Becomes of the Broken Hearted"...the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck just thinking about it. They added parts that sound so good, that weren't on the original. They furthered it.
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  #90  
Old 07-11-2017, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Still doesn't mean I'm willing to call the guy who wrote the part a liar. It probably wouldn't even be an argument at all if he hadn't gone and said that, more than once, and in lots of detail...
For the record, I'm not calling Ringo a "liar". As I said before, I love Ringo, and the rest of The Beatles.

If people want to play it the way Ringo played it in that video, or because of whatever he said, or make their floor tom higher pitched than their rack toms using towels or however one can do it, or play it backwards, forwards, upside down, inside out, or whatever, however, it's fine with me!

I'll even change my vote seeing as I don't want to upset anyone with anything that goes against anything.

So Ringo played it floor to rack, no ifs, ands, or buts, end of story!
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  #91  
Old 07-11-2017, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

I think in line with what Dr_Watso said, I'm guessing I could play the whole riff on one tom covered with a towel
and make the last three hits sound a little lower than the first few hits, just by using stick technique.

It's funny how we just can't seem to "Come Together" on this.


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  #92  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
It's funny how we just can't seem to "Come Together" on this.
Funny, too, looking around on youtube there are tons more tutorials and drum covers and I've yet to see one (...except Ringo, of course....) where anyone plays it backwards...

...but in every one I've seen, there is at least 1 person in the comments going "WRONG! It's floor tom first, look at the Ringo video!"

I almost think Ringo said it's backward just to screw everyone up!
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  #93  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:37 AM
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Funny, too, looking around on youtube there are tons more tutorials and drum covers and I've yet to see one (...except Ringo, of course....) where anyone plays it backwards...

...but in every one I've seen, there is at least 1 person in the comments going "WRONG! It's floor tom first, look at the Ringo video!"

I almost think Ringo said it's backward just to screw everyone up!
I think most people probably just play what sounds right, instead of worrying about the fashion in which his arms moved.
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  #94  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
I think most people probably just play what sounds right, instead of worrying about the fashion in which his arms moved.
Yes, sure.

Copping that song is pretty impossible anyway...I think, aside from the drums and the overall sound, the most impossible aspect is probably the vocal!
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  #95  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:18 AM
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Yes, sure.

Copping that song is pretty impossible anyway...I think, aside from the drums and the overall sound, the most impossible aspect is probably the vocal!
Yeah, it's a unique one for sure
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  #96  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:37 AM
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aside from the drums and the overall sound, the most impossible aspect is probably the vocal!
Yeah. You just gave me a good come back line if someone complains about the drum part.
"Well when the singer sings it just like John Lennon did, then I'll play the drum part just like Ringo."


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  #97  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:21 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

From the pics of Ringo's drums the only tom it looked like he put a towel on was the floor tom-heck I remember doing the same back in the day. But I was "ponderin'" about the credits of Come together it states Ringo plays drums and maracas-so obviously there was some mixing going on with the album (if not I'd like to see Ringo play the kit and maracas at the same time LOL), and perhaps what Ringo was demonstrating was his "live version" of the song. I was reading the song was written by Lennon in support of Timothy Leary's campaign for governor of California against Ronald Reagan, then after the release they were sued because it resembled Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM So we've all been playing the wrong damn drum part and should be playing the part to You Can't Catch Me-which brings me to my point which is "it reminds me of this thread".
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  #98  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:55 AM
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Back in the day I always played it low to high as that was my impression of what Ring did and it was fun the run up the toms backwards.

What amazes me about the drum track is that anyone thought of it. I expect that most drummers when presented with that bass and keys line would have played a backbeat. Whatever the details, it was a creative idea that worked perfectly.
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  #99  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:05 AM
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From the pics of Ringo's drums the only tom it looked like he put a towel on was the floor tom-heck I remember doing the same back in the day. But I was "ponderin'" about the credits of Come together it states Ringo plays drums and maracas-so obviously there was some mixing going on with the album (if not I'd like to see Ringo play the kit and maracas at the same time LOL), and perhaps what Ringo was demonstrating was his "live version" of the song. I was reading the song was written by Lennon in support of Timothy Leary's campaign for governor of California against Ronald Reagan, then after the release they were sued because it resembled Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM So we've all been playing the wrong damn drum part and should be playing the part to You Can't Catch Me-which brings me to my point which is "it reminds me of this thread".
That song sounds nothing like Come Together. Yeah, there's the line "Here come a flat-top, he was movin' up with me", which resembles the Beatles' "Here come old flat-top, he come grooving up slowly". But that's it.
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  #100  
Old 07-12-2017, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
What amazes me about the drum track is that anyone thought of it. I expect that most drummers when presented with that bass and keys line would have played a backbeat. Whatever the details, it was a creative idea that worked perfectly.
Absolutely. That's why it's so weird to think that Ringo misremembered the part. Even though it certainly sounds like he went from tom to floor tom. Just such an odd (though perfect for the song) part.
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  #101  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:39 PM
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I love analyzing a drum part to death. In some ways it really is pointless, because so much of it is lost on the audience, but I think searching for the truth about a drummer—trying to figure out the stickings and stuff like that—is a great way to learn.

David Garibaldi has a video out there where he plays the famous intro to Squib Cakes. He admits he probably isn't playing it exactly the way he did on the recording and that he can't really remember what he did on that specific take. I don't think most artists realize they are about to record an iconic part that people are going to be dissecting 50 years later. They're jamming in the studio, trying things out, improvising, changing them a little for each take. Then one take is chosen and the next thing they know, their part becomes an institution amongst musicians!

I have recordings I've made that I can't really remember exactly what the hell I did, so I just try to recapture the overall feel of it when I play those songs now. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who has played on so many records decades ago to try and recreate it now.
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  #102  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:51 PM
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I love analyzing a drum part to death. In some ways it really is pointless, because so much of it is lost on the audience, but I think searching for the truth about a drummer—trying to figure out the stickings and stuff like that—is a great way to learn.

David Garibaldi has a video out there where he plays the famous intro to Squib Cakes. He admits he probably isn't playing it exactly the way he did on the recording and that he can't really remember what he did on that specific take. I don't think most artists realize they are about to record an iconic part that people are going to be dissecting 50 years later. They're jamming in the studio, trying things out, improvising, changing them a little for each take. Then one take is chosen and the next thing they know, their part becomes an institution amongst musicians!

I have recordings I've made that I can't really remember exactly what the hell I did, so I just try to recapture the overall feel of it when I play those songs now. I can't imagine what it's like for someone who has played on so many records decades ago to try and recreate it now.
All well and good, but Ringo's explanation has more to do with him being left handed, thanks to his grandmother, playing a right handed kit, than it does with him forgetting what he played. It may sound one way or another and may make since to play it another way, but to argue that "I know how it's played", or "I have played it and taught it this way for years" is absurd. Reminds me of the Wipeout thread showing 30 guys playing Wipeout the "correct" way, all of them different. Play it how you wish, be it better sounding, easier, makes more sense, whatever, but I find it laughable to doubt the guy who played the song a million times. (exaggerated ) It is a very easy part, sound wise, and in my mind not easily forgotten.
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  #103  
Old 07-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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All well and good, but Ringo's explanation has more to do with him being left handed, thanks to his grandmother, playing a right handed kit, than it does with him forgetting what he played. It may sound one way or another and may make since to play it another way, but to argue that "I know how it's played", or "I have played it and taught it this way for years" is absurd. Reminds me of the Wipeout thread showing 30 guys playing Wipeout the "correct" way, all of them different. Play it how you wish, be it better sounding, easier, makes more sense, whatever, but I find it laughable to doubt the guy who played the song a million times. (exaggerated ) It is a very easy part, sound wise, and in my mind not easily forgotten.
I agree, his explanation of how he had no choice but to play it that way is pretty persuasive.

But has he really played this song that many times? The Beatles were long done touring by the time he recorded it. Maybe he plays it on tour with his All-Starr band, I just don't know. On that video, it seems like he hadn't played it in a while.
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  #104  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:12 PM
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But has he really played this song that many times? The Beatles were long done touring by the time he recorded it. Maybe he plays it on tour with his All-Starr band, I just don't know. On that video, it seems like he hadn't played it in a while.
This is a good point, the song was pretty much not played much as a Beatle, other than its recording. This is the closest I could come (with Jesus on bass!)

I'd believe Ringo too, but still think its great this thread is over 100 posts now on how to play this.
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  #105  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:15 PM
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This is a good point, the song was pretty much not played much as a Beatle, other than its recording. This is the closest I could come (with Jesus on bass!)

I'd believe Ringo too, but still think its great this thread is over 100 posts now on how to play this.
Yea, that's not ringo,(right?) and he isn't even playing the first two hits, hat fill through the whole part!
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  #106  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:48 PM
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All well and good, but Ringo's explanation has more to do with him being left handed, thanks to his grandmother, playing a right handed kit, than it does with him forgetting what he played. It may sound one way or another and may make since to play it another way, but to argue that "I know how it's played", or "I have played it and taught it this way for years" is absurd. Reminds me of the Wipeout thread showing 30 guys playing Wipeout the "correct" way, all of them different. Play it how you wish, be it better sounding, easier, makes more sense, whatever, but I find it laughable to doubt the guy who played the song a million times. (exaggerated ) It is a very easy part, sound wise, and in my mind not easily forgotten.
The problem with his explanation almost 50 years after the fact is that he has never had a problem playing other drum parts hi tom to floor tom on other songs. Sure, he LEADS with his left, but that doesn't explain the floor tom to rack tom fill. As I said, you can see and hear Ringo play from rack to floor tom from the beginning of his career. He even admits to being on "medication" in the video...says it was a long time ago, admits he doesn't recall exactly what he did, and plays a hi-hat/snare part coming out of the tom fill that isn't on the record.

No one is dissing Ringo, or his playing. No one is saying anything bad about him at all. We are not "beating a dead horse" etc.

All that is being suggested is that he may not be able to recall exactly what he did at the time. The "I'm left handed" thing doesn't add up because it isn't consistent with what he had been doing from the beginning-top down tom fills.

So, maybe he did play it bottom up-but for musical reasons? And, as Dr. Watso said, you can easily get odd pitches from tea-towel tunings which adds further intrigue to exactly what he did.

I'd be willing to everyone here are Ringo fans...so this isn't about calling him a liar or insinuating anything at all. We just dig digging into the guys playing.
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  #107  
Old 07-12-2017, 05:48 PM
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I agree, his explanation of how he had no choice but to play it that way is pretty persuasive.

But has he really played this song that many times? The Beatles were long done touring by the time he recorded it. Maybe he plays it on tour with his All-Starr band, I just don't know. On that video, it seems like he hadn't played it in a while.
Note the word "exaggerated" in the post......
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  #108  
Old 07-12-2017, 07:44 PM
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Yea, that's not ringo,(right?) and he isn't even playing the first two hits, hat fill through the whole part!
2 drummers ...I believe it would be Alan White and somebody else on drums....and 'Jesus' may be Klaus Voorman on bass.
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  #109  
Old 07-12-2017, 11:13 PM
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That's a band called Elephant's Memory in the John Lennon version. Richard Frank, Jr. on drums and there's 2 bass players and both kind of look like Jesus (everyone did back then), but I believe the one that looks most like him and dressed like him is named John Ward (sidenote-there are 12 verses in the bible about coming together).

I don't think Ringo ever played the song after the studio version, in which they did 8 takes.

Paul worked on a version with a band called Smokin' Mojo Filters, which was a thing for charity done by Paul Weller and other people...Oasis...in the video, there's clips of Paul playing drums, but not sure if that's really on the recording or just for show. They don't do the Ringo riff, btw.

George Martin did a version with Robin Williams(!) and Bobby McFerrin.

I listened to a bunch of cover versions, there are tons by so many different (genres of) people , and it's funny how many don't do the Ringo lick at all...the great majority of the ones I listened to.

Last edited by ricky; 07-13-2017 at 01:56 AM.
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  #110  
Old 07-13-2017, 12:51 AM
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Does anyone else ever hear it as maybe a low to high to low again for the last couple notes?
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  #111  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

I don't understand why this discussion has gone on as long as it has without referring directly to the source.




Could somebody please just contact Bernard Purdie and just ask him?
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  #112  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Does anyone else ever hear it as maybe a low to high to low again for the last couple notes?
Yeah. The common version which is transcribed above in a couple posts goes back and forth between the floor tom and the higher tom in the last four hits (high low high low).

So the floor tom is hit twice with a high tom between.
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  #113  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Does anyone else ever hear it as maybe a low to high to low again for the last couple notes?
Yes. See the chart in post #83 near top of the page.
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  #114  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Note the word "exaggerated" in the post......
I didn't mean "that many" as in millions, I knew you didn't mean that literally; I meant "that many" as in lots.
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  #115  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

The last two notes, listening to it again today several times, were the bass drum if I am not mistaken. I think he mentioned this in the video I first posted.
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  #116  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Does Ringo have a username on here? We could ask again.
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  #117  
Old 07-13-2017, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

I'm Ringo.

That bloody song was recorded almost 50 years ago. I can't remember if I even got up last night to pee, or what I ate for lunch today.

If I say I ran up the toms, then that's what I did. I think.

Bloody hell, everybody else plays it better than I ever did... all eight times.

And I'm still on medication... if you catch me drift.
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  #118  
Old 07-19-2017, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Dead Drummer View Post
Just learn the Aerosmith version, it's better anyway.

YES...what he said! I doubt Joey put a lot of thought into this jam.
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  #119  
Old 07-20-2017, 12:34 AM
Sheherezadeh Sheherezadeh is offline
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

One thing I'm surprised no one mentioned directly is that there's also the question of the fluctuation in volume as the fill goes along. Hitting the toms harder creates more overtones in relation to the fundamental frequency, which changes your perception of the pitch of the tone. Add that to the question of tuning and the inconsistency of tea towels, and no wonder it's difficult to tell what exactly is going on.
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  #120  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:12 AM
ricky ricky is offline
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheherezadeh View Post
One thing I'm surprised no one mentioned directly is that there's also the question of the fluctuation in volume as the fill goes along. Hitting the toms harder creates more overtones in relation to the fundamental frequency, which changes your perception of the pitch of the tone. Add that to the question of tuning and the inconsistency of tea towels, and no wonder it's difficult to tell what exactly is going on.
It was touched upon (as I had said, I originally thought it was, or could be, just one tom played dynamically).

I do think though, that if you listen to just the first hit by itself, and the last hit by itself, it's sort of hard to believe the first one is a floor tom and the last is a rack tom.
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