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  #41  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Version by The Meters. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7LJl8jsApc
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

I've seen the Ringo video before, and I'd bet a million bucks he's wrong!

Although there are songs where he plays backwards.

There are a couple of people on the net who copped the sound and lick.

Here's one starting a 1:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAq9WPVL6iM

Here's another, slightly different, but he's only got 2 toms:

https://soundbetter.com/kb/recording...ke-the-beatles
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Version by The Meters. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7LJl8jsApc
Groovy... But it sounds like the 70s porno background music version of Come Together. The original drum part is what gives the song its mojo
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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.......and I'd bet a million bucks he's wrong!
And why wouldn't ya?

The assumption that the guy who originated the part hasn't got a friggen' clue what he's talking about is usually the best approach. No doubt.
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:22 AM
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I've seen the Ringo video before, and I'd bet a million bucks he's wrong!

Although there are songs where he plays backwards.

There are a couple of people on the net who copped the sound and lick.

Here's one starting a 1:30:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAq9WPVL6iM

Here's another, slightly different, but he's only got 2 toms:

https://soundbetter.com/kb/recording...ke-the-beatles
There's always a chance you're right. But it seems rather unlikely to me that a drummer would forget something like that. Going from high tom to low tom is so common that I feel like going the opposite direction would be pretty memorable. Like the reverse tom runs in Queen's "You're My Best Friend". I could see forgetting specific sticking maybe. But what you're suggesting... Who knows, maybe Ringo is suffering from Alzheimer's. But really, when was the last time you thought "now did I go from high to low on the toms on that part, or low to high"?

I would tend to agree with the suggestion that the tea towels on the drums created this effect. If the floor tom was tuned a bit more "slappy" sounding, and the rack tom was more toneful, the slappiness could be misconstrued as a higher pitch. OR, maybe when they were recording, Ringo played the part the only way he could (since he's a lefty), but they deliberately tuned the rack tom lower (and/or floor tom higher) to get the high to low sound.

These are just theories. But it seems far more likely than the guy who wrote such a unique part forgetting which way he went on the toms.

I feel like that's on par with forgetting if you played a part in half-time or double-time.
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  #46  
Old 07-10-2017, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Version by The Meters. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7LJl8jsApc
This is the version I was going to cover with my friends a couple years ago, but we never got to it.
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  #47  
Old 07-10-2017, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

This thread has become really interesting! Some strong opinions out there. Some interesting versions of the song.

I'd just like to add that I played the song in the gig on Sunday. The singer came in early a couple of times, the guitarist skipped over the keyboard interlude after the solo, and the crowd loved it and didn't notice a thing wrong. Some punters cheered!

So it didn't matter which tom I used, or how many hihats were on the first beat. The crowd recognised the song, liked the singer and the overall sound, and were happy. Sometimes we over-analyse things.
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  #48  
Old 07-10-2017, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Morrisman View Post
This thread has become really interesting! Some strong opinions out there. Some interesting versions of the song.

I'd just like to add that I played the song in the gig on Sunday. The singer came in early a couple of times, the guitarist skipped over the keyboard interlude after the solo, and the crowd loved it and didn't notice a thing wrong. Some punters cheered!

So it didn't matter which tom I used, or how many hihats were on the first beat. The crowd recognised the song, liked the singer and the overall sound, and were happy. Sometimes we over-analyse things.
Totally! Doesn't matter WHAT you play really, so long as the audience digs it
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  #49  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

It's best when you can play it how you feel it. IMHO. Like sometimes I like to do a nice, fancy triplet fill into the choked cymbal crash. It doesn't interfere with the song and it's mostly for my own personal amusement. I'll play it different on purpose.
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  #50  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:20 PM
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I've seen the Ringo video before, and I'd bet a million bucks he's wrong!
Are you for real? There is nobody on the planet more qualified to be correct than the guy who came up with the part, played in the band, and recorded it in a studio so it could become one of their most popular hits.

I hope you don't go to the track and bet against the winner on races that are already finished...
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  #51  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:22 PM
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I often just use kick notes instead of adding the crashes. Kick notes alone followed by the hi-hat slosh thing sounds good and I'm very lazy. Nobody has ever noticed that I'm aware of.
Just to point it out, Ringo did exactly this variation several times in the posted video where he explained the groove. It sounds good!
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  #52  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Are you for real? There is nobody on the planet more qualified to be correct than the guy who came up with the part, played in the band, and recorded it in a studio so it could become one of their most popular hits.
Hal Blaine? Read it on the Internet; must be true.
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  #53  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:35 PM
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Hal Blaine? Read it on the Internet; must be true.
Until Ringo says "someone else recorded my parts for me" I'm going to stay with his "opinion" of the subject.
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  #54  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Until Ringo says "someone else recorded my parts for me" I'm going to stay with his "opinion" of the subject.
I've found this whole thread fascinating. Come Together has one of the most iconic drum lines of all time. I just can't imagine guitarists debating how to play the iconic guitar riffs in the same way. For a simple instrument, the drum kit is amazingly complex.

As for the Ringo conspiracy theories... I find the McCartney doppelgänger theories more convincing.
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  #55  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

The drums in the Ringo clip sound bad. But is it just me, or does the floor tom sound like it's tuned higher in pitch than the rack tom? Is that something Ringo normally does?

That might explain the confusion about why the recording sounds like the pitch is descending even though we know Ringo generally played fills in a "backward" direction around the drums owing to his left-handedness.
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2017, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Interestingly enough...

In the clip gruntersdad posted from the television show, Ringo says, after finishing the tom run at 2:30-"it just goes into straight 4s after that" and commences to play a hi-hat and snare pattern that are not on the recording. (The studio version is an 8th note pattern on the low tom and 1/4s on the bass drum). He even says "it's been so long it's hard to remember" or something close to that.

So.... Maybe Ringo's memory isn't quite as sharp as we are giving him credit for?

Not too mention there seems to be quite a few pictures of a sleepy looking Ringo circulating from that time period. Hard to blame the guy for being a little bit fuzzy about a studio session from 50 years ago that may have involved just a wee bit of.... Well...never mind...lol

Listening to that tom pattern with a decent set of headphones and the tonal difference is almost imperceptible during the run. Hard to argue definitively whether it begins hi or low in my opinion. Probably why no one really has an issue with it no matter how it's played.
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  #57  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Since nobody's posted it yet:

The isolated drum/bass track from Come Together

It's interesting - you can hear John's vocal elsewhere in the room, but it's a different vocal from what ended up on the final version of the song.

That tom part is definitely left-hand lead, but it sounds to me like:

Rack/Floor: RRR RRF RFR F

And I don't see how it's possible to hear anything else - there's a whole lot more low end when the floor tom is hit, and if was floor-to-rack it would mean Ringo's riding the rack tom during the verses, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but isn't outside the realm of possibility I guess.
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  #58  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Are you for real? There is nobody on the planet more qualified to be correct than the guy who came up with the part, played in the band, and recorded it in a studio so it could become one of their most popular hits.

I hope you don't go to the track and bet against the winner on races that are already finished...
I'm for real. Nobody is a bigger Ringo fan than me, or Beatle fan...

they don't always get things right when looking back on things they did 50 years ago, and why should they...I don't think they are nearly as obsessed as us loonies out in the world.

Just studying the actual part on the recording (which I had studied before), it doesn't sound like floor tom, than rack tom, it sounds more the way other loonies who copped the sound in the clips I posted sound.

Not saying I'm right 100% for sure...just saying it's possible Ringo is wrong...he needs to tell interesting stories and his left handed on a right handed kit playing backwards thing is one of them.
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  #59  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by dwsabianguy View Post

It's interesting - you can hear John's vocal elsewhere in the room, but it's a different vocal from what ended up on the final version of the song.
I think that's interesting, too...listening to many of the Beatle tracks, it's amazing how casual they were as far as bleed goes, background chatter and noises, guide vocals, etc.
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  #60  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Interestingly enough...

In the clip gruntersdad posted from the television show, Ringo says, after finishing the tom run at 2:30-"it just goes into straight 4s after that" and commences to play a hi-hat and snare pattern that are not on the recording. (The studio version is an 8th note pattern on the low tom and 1/4s on the bass drum). He even says "it's been so long it's hard to remember" or something close to that.
.
I noticed that too. But that one drum part is so iconic. And going backwards up the toms is so unusual. Just seems like something one would remember. Though I could be totally wrong
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  #61  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:27 AM
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Hal Blaine? Read it on the Internet; must be true.
Bernard Purdie claims to have played on some Beatles tunes too.
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  #62  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by dwsabianguy View Post
Since nobody's posted it yet:

The isolated drum/bass track from Come Together

It's interesting - you can hear John's vocal elsewhere in the room, but it's a different vocal from what ended up on the final version of the song.

That tom part is definitely left-hand lead, but it sounds to me like:

Rack/Floor: RRR RRF RFR F

And I don't see how it's possible to hear anything else - there's a whole lot more low end when the floor tom is hit, and if was floor-to-rack it would mean Ringo's riding the rack tom during the verses, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but isn't outside the realm of possibility I guess.
Very interesting indeed. What a strange thing to remember incorrectly. Maybe Ringo was gettin' the good grass back then, haha
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  #63  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
Bernard Purdie claims to have played on some Beatles tunes too.
There's loonies who have gone to great lengths to figure this out and the going theory is he "beefed up" some badly recorded tracks for Atco, I can't recall now (see how that goes), either some of the Tony Sheridan tracks or the Hamburg live things (which would be Pete Best stuff) that were re-released after The Beatles got huge .

No one played for Ringo, except for Paul on a few tracks, and Andy White on the single of Love Me Do/P.S. I Love You.
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  #64  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dwsabianguy View Post
Thank you dwsabianguy.

The defense rests.


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  #65  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Yep. I could tell by the sound which way Ringo was going. It's obvious that his explanation of his song holds no validity. Now back to your seats kids.
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  #66  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:29 AM
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There's loonies who have gone to great lengths to figure this out and the going theory is he "beefed up" some badly recorded tracks for Atco, I can't recall now (see how that goes), either some of the Tony Sheridan tracks or the Hamburg live things (which would be Pete Best stuff) that were re-released after The Beatles got huge .

No one played for Ringo, except for Paul on a few tracks, and Andy White on the single of Love Me Do/P.S. I Love You.
Yeah, I didn't buy it either. That's why I said "claims", haha. Pretty bold move for him to make such a statement though.
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  #67  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:32 AM
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RRR RRF RFR F
Just looking at that, thinking of "R" as right, and "F" as foot, that looks like a Rick Allen fill right there.
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  #68  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:46 AM
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Not that there is anything wrong with it....lol...

But does that drum track just have "stoner" written all over it or what? It just has that lazy, dragging, kinda "smile" to it. You can almost feel Ringo saying "oh bloody hell why bother using two hands on this part....I'll just tap me snare..." I think it adds a cool vibe to the tune...

Probably smoking a ciggarette with the free hand...lol...

(Disclosure: I am saying this as someone who has "been there done that" a few times myself).
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  #69  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Here's another video (with people arguing it up in the comments), this guy does it on 3 toms, which kind of makes sense as Ringo had 3 at the time, why not use them.

It's funny, I always use to think no one ever played this lick right, not just which toms (I used to think it was actually just on one tom, but just with dynamics of quiet to loud), but the whole feel...now it seems like everyone is trying to figure it out just like the Hard Days Night chord.

I may put the song in a DAW and analyze each hit , but I'm not sure I care that much.

On a side note, something I've been wondering about lately is whether Ringo would tune his drums to the song (I doubt he bothered with the tea towels), but in other songs I'm thinking he did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSPZcPHsl_U
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  #70  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:52 AM
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So.... Maybe Ringo's memory isn't quite as sharp as we are giving him credit for?
And I can accept this.....at least in part. It was a hell of a long time ago and if nuance and subtlety get lost along the way, then I can see how.

But as he stated in the vid. The choice to run from floor to mounted toms was neither musical nor stylistic. It was a choice born out of sheer necessity. His own limitations of him being left handed and struggling to lead with the right pretty much dictated what he could or couldn't do on a drum kit.

Who is ever gonna forget such a fundamental aspect of their own playing?


Honestly, this thread is perhaps the greatest example of a forum's ability to go from the sublime to the outright bloody ridiculous, that I've ever seen. At this point, the infamous seat belt thread made more sense.

This is our very own version of Python's Black Knight claiming "No you didn't cut off my arm. It's only a flesh wound".



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I hope you don't go to the track and bet against the winner on races that are already finished...
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  #71  
Old 07-11-2017, 03:54 AM
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Not that there is anything wrong with it....lol...

But does that drum track just have "stoner" written all over it or what? It just has that lazy, dragging, kinda "smile" to it. You can almost feel Ringo saying "oh bloody hell why bother using two hands on this part....I'll just tap me snare..." I think it adds a cool vibe to the tune...

Probably smoking a ciggarette with the free hand...lol...

(Disclosure: I am saying this as someone who has "been there done that" a few times myself).
I love it, think it's one of the greatest overall sounds of all time. Perfect. The drums and bass and subtle understated guitar, etc.....swampy as I think Paul McCartney said.

I know some don't like the cardboard box drums, but I think it fits just right, gives it that dry, up front, smokey feeling in what otherwise would have been a normal Chuck Berry rock and roll song.
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  #72  
Old 07-11-2017, 04:34 AM
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Not that there is anything wrong with it....lol...

But does that drum track just have "stoner" written all over it or what? It just has that lazy, dragging, kinda "smile" to it. You can almost feel Ringo saying "oh bloody hell why bother using two hands on this part....I'll just tap me snare..." I think it adds a cool vibe to the tune...

Probably smoking a ciggarette with the free hand...lol...

(Disclosure: I am saying this as someone who has "been there done that" a few times myself).
I gotta say, while I don't recommend it for any live performance (aside from maybe a "jam band" scenario), just jamming with some buddies after a few bong rips - while maybe not too interesting for the listener - is fun as f***
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  #73  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:30 AM
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Does anyone have pictures of how the towels were arranged on the tom/s?

When you put something on a drum, especially something flat-ish and soft it makes it very easy to get different sounds, and pitches depending on where on the drum, where on or around the towel, how hard you hit so that the resonance comes through and the towel isn't sufficient to damp... Hopefully I'm explaining this right. Point is, once the drums have been messed with to that extent, you can't totally rely on your ears to tell you what is what.

I have all sorts of instances where I'm sure that a run (especially a mixed-tom run) is played one way, even passably using my interpretation in covers, and then I go see the drummer at a show and get surprised to see them play it a different way.

But really, when we have the freakin man himself telling us it was one way, even with an interesting anecdote story to back up his memory, I'm inclined to believe that he didn't just make it up.
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  #74  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Does anyone have pictures of how the towels were arranged on the tom/s?

When you put something on a drum, especially something flat-ish and soft it makes it very easy to get different sounds, and pitches depending on where on the drum, where on or around the towel, how hard you hit so that the resonance comes through and the towel isn't sufficient to damp... Hopefully I'm explaining this right. Point is, once the drums have been messed with to that extent, you can't totally rely on your ears to tell you what is what.

I have all sorts of instances where I'm sure that a run (especially a mixed-tom run) is played one way, even passably using my interpretation in covers, and then I go see the drummer at a show and get surprised to see them play it a different way.

But really, when we have the freakin man himself telling us it was one way, even with an interesting anecdote story to back up his memory, I'm inclined to believe that he didn't just make it up.
I get what you're saying about a towel and pitches and whatnot...and the man himself and all....

But I went ahead and stuck the track in a daw...inspected each hit of the roll(s)...unless he switched his toms around and put the rack toms where his floor tom is and his floor tom where his rack toms are...well it just doesn't make sense!

and at this point I'm sticking with my million dollar bet...

are you in? any other takers?
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  #75  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Btw, listen to the opening roll of Something...two triplets, high to low, plain as day as those are more open and obvious in pitch...why wouldn't he play it low to high?

The thing with a triplet is it works with his backwards starting with the left hand thing.
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  #76  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

Regardless of any of it, it SOUNDS more accurate to play it from high tom to low tom. 99% of audience members are going to base their opinion of a performance on if the song sounds right. How many people are gonna hear a part that sounds right, and then go "yeah, but his arms didn't move in the right direction"? I'm going to go ahead and say VERY few.
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  #77  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:01 AM
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Btw, listen to the opening roll of Something...two triplets, high to low, plain as day as those are more open and obvious in pitch...why wouldn't he play it low to high?

The thing with a triplet is it works with his backwards starting with the left hand thing.
I listened to the isolated tracks, and while I agree, it sounds higher to lower for the most part, there's also something confusing about it. I can't fully rule out that the recording, towels or my ears aren't deceiving me. Like I said, wouldn't be the first time I got it wrong with another drummer.
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  #78  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:14 AM
ricky ricky is offline
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I listened to the isolated tracks, and while I agree, it sounds higher to lower for the most part, there's also something confusing about it. I can't fully rule out that the recording, towels or my ears aren't deceiving me. Like I said, wouldn't be the first time I got it wrong with another drummer.
I agree it sounds deceiving. Like I said before, I thought it was one tom just with dynamics before these isolated tracks came along and before I got sort of obsessed with it!

And the 2 rack toms with towels, even the snare...they are almost interchangeable.

But if you listen to just the first hit edited by itself...and the last hit...the first one is very high comparatively...and the last one is deep and much fuller like a floor tom...there's just no doubt to me.

And then the floor tom is what he's hitting in the verses...it's the same pitch and all.

And then when you compare to the rolls later on, when he's hitting things more spaced out, you can hear the clearer difference between high and low, and what the floor sounds like.
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  #79  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:31 AM
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opentune opentune is offline
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Does anyone have pictures of how the towels were arranged on the tom/s?
When you put something on a drum, especially something flat-ish and soft it makes it very easy to get different sounds, and pitches depending on where on the drum, where on or around the towel, how hard you hit so that the resonance comes through and the towel isn't sufficient to damp...
...as i said in my above post, just move towels and 'stuff' around on your toms, LOTS of variations in tones.

....and here is Ringo's setups during Abbey Road and other sessions

https://www.ringosbeatlekits.com/lud...-drum-set.html
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  #80  
Old 07-11-2017, 11:28 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Beatles - Come Together

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Originally Posted by ricky View Post

and at this point I'm sticking with my million dollar bet...

are you in? any other takers?
Hell no, old mate. In fact, I'm betting the farm against you and backing the poor sod who was not only there, but who originated it from the outset.

But that said. Your willingness to call a spade a fcuking shovel and pretty much label Ringo an idiot and/or liar, despite his own commentary to the contrary, takes a special kind of self-assurance.

And if I'm honest, strength in the full face of adversity is a self-assurance I've always admired.

We could definitely have some fun with this over a few pints at the bar, you and I.......even if we don't agree!! :-)
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