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  #1  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:12 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

I've been drumming with in-ear-monitors for four years now and my hearing is slowly, but surely getting worse.

I've been extremely careful since age 14 (now 28), always wearing earplugs to band practice (was a guitarist back then) and to gigs and clubs. I started drums 6 years ago and started using in-ear monitors 4 years ago to play along with recorded music and click tracks.

My ears have always been sensitive but have always recovered from acute ringing.

Four years ago I purchased 1964 ears V2 custom moulded in-ear-monitors to play drums along to click-tracks and mp3's and after a year I noticed the beginnings of tinnitus when I went to bed. It got progressively worse until I ditched those in-ear monitors for some Shure ones (SE215). The Shure are universal and much cheaper in comparison to the 1964 ears but (in my opinion) isolate much better.

Unfortunately, my tinnitus is still progressing. I realise that it is progressive and irreversible disease/condition but I at least hoped I could make it not worsen.

Even with these professional monitors, I have always turned the music/click up much louder than when I am listening to music away from the drum kit. Otherwise I can't hear the music/click properly and fall out of time. This is no doubt the cause of my hearing problems.....but I figured that the was the best solution.....so others must be in my same position? I have even started wearing gun-muffs over the top of my in-ear monitors but this doesn't allow me to turn the volume down, sadly.

Is there a way to hear backing tracks and play drums, without having to turn up the volume? For everyday listening, my iphone is on the 'second' volume level (out of 16), if I am walking outside, and on 'one' out of 16 if I am at home and it is quiet. For playing drums to music, it needs to be on a minimum of 6 out of 16 and usually bumped up to 8 for quieter tracks.

I can't see a way out of this problem, without ditching click tracks and backing tracks all together.....but I feel these hints are required for modern music, and the music that I love (rock and metal)

Kind regards,

Andy
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:26 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

I try not to have anything blasting directly into my ear. Playing with recordings I use earplugs and over the ear headphones-- not noise-cancelling, not isolating-- and I keep one can off my ear. If everything has to go through ear plugs, you should be protected.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:32 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Hi Andy,

The real key is isolation. It sounds as though you have to turn up the volume in your headsets due to the drums being to loud. I'm not sure why this would be the case with in ears, unless you don't feel comfortable, unless the music is blaring. I've never used anything more sophisticated than noise isolation earbuds. Usually with better than factory tips for better isolation and have neve experienced ringing after hours of drumming. I started in the 80s with the old style headphones. In those days, I stuff earplugs in, then put the cans over them and crank them up. Still no ringing, but in either scenario, there's been no real definition to the drums themselves.

It has saved my hearing and I'm currently 51. Once I picked up a mic, I've been using it to hear my drums clearly through the mix, but volume still stays at a comfortable level. Perhaps you can try a mic and lower the volume?
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:53 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

Toddbishop; I haven't tried it 'that way round', with normal foam earplugs and headphones playing music over the top of those. Maybe this could be better for me as in-ear monitors clearly don't work that well for me. Will any cans do? The logic seems sound.

AzHeat- I always make sure I have a solid seal with my in-ear monitors. I'm not sure that a microphone would help. I have the opposite problem; my drums are too loud and the backing track is too quiet.

Kind regards,

Andy
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndeeT View Post
Hi,


AzHeat- I always make sure I have a solid seal with my in-ear monitors. I'm not sure that a microphone would help. I have the opposite problem; my drums are too loud and the backing track is too quiet.

Kind regards,

Andy
Which is why I believe you are not getting a great seal with your in-ears. I can hear some banging through my earbuds, but no hats or ride. Some crash, but that's it. I use the mic to mix in some of the drums, so I can tell what I'm doing.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Your music source plus a mic on the drums, fed into a mixer of some sort, fed to your in-ears or earbuds, with a heavy duty set of shooting muffs over the top will get you the quietest possible combination for playing along to tracks, in my experience. You can set the volume really low and still hear everything.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:55 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndeeT View Post
... I ditched those in-ear monitors for some Shure ones (SE215). The Shure are universal and much cheaper in comparison to the 1964 ears but (in my opinion) isolate much better.
Hi Andy, I'm not familiar with the 1964 in-ears, but I took a look at the Shure, and that model doesn't have very good isolation, I don't care what the rating says. It claims up to 37db, and if true, you'd barely be able to hear your drums at all.

As a drummer, you have to start with real molds to protect your hearing, not foam or rubber earpiece adapters. You get what you pay for, and unfortunately, you'll be paying with your hearing, which is precious, and priceless. When it's gone, it's gone. When you lose the highs, they won't come back. You're kind of young to be having problems, all the more reason you need to take action now. Not the beginning of next year, not after Labor Day, but on Monday, June 19. Tomorrow, Saturday, if possible.

Go to an audiologist who makes impressions for in-ears (same as hearing aids I suppose) and 1) get your hearing tested, and 2) get impressions made. They'll give them to you right there, and you can send them to a specialized in-ear monitor company such as JH Audio (that's what I use), Ultimate Ears, or Sensaphonics (I think they specialize in silicone molds rather than hard plastic.)

Once you're set up with better ear protection, turn the volume down. You won't need it very loud to overcome the little bit of acoustic drum leakage. If you're not hearing your drums very well, that's good! Set up a mic to feed them into your mix, at a reasonable level of course. You really don't need anything to be loud, as long as the balance is good.

But basically do whatever you need to in order to halt further damage. You think in-ears are expensive? There is NO amount of money that will fix your hearing.

Bermuda
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Old 06-17-2017, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

I was that guy who was standing in front of of the speakers at the AC/DC and Black Sabbath concerts back in the '80s---my hearing is fine---blasting your ears at point-blank range is the problem :( Throw away those damn earbuds!
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2017, 04:34 AM
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bonerpizza bonerpizza is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

I play along to drumless tracks from my phone and I keep the volume pretty low, how exactly are you running everything into your ears?

I have a little mixer and I plug my phone into one channel and have the volume on the ipod around 70-80%, I put an sm57 as an overhead mic over my head pointing down at the kit and I can keep the volume from my mixer pretty low as long as I'm not getting a lot of cymbal in the mic. I've noticed that when I try to run numerous mics on my kit (2 overheads, kick, snare, etc) I tend to run the drum volume louder and have to run the ipod/phone/click track louder to compensate and the overall volume is too loud.

I also got a set of large sized foam inserts which provide a better fit for my in ears which gives me better isolation. Here's an Amazon link to the ones I got, you'll have to figure out which models fit your particular in ears.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Also, stop listening to music incessantly with in-hear monitors. There is going to be an epidemic of people with hearing loss in about ten years. EVERYONE is walking around listening to music on their smartphone with earbuds, or even sitting at work with them on. ENOUGH already! Give your ears a break! Use loudspeakers whenever possible. And when using headphones or earbuds, keep the level as low as possible, and listen for the shortest duration possible.

As for playing with backing tracks, try playing with other musicians instead of tracks. And wear hearing protection when you do it.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:08 AM
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picodon picodon is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Try the Vic Firth drummer headphones. They isolate well and are inexpensive.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:13 AM
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JustJames JustJames is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndeeT View Post
...My ears have always been sensitive but have always recovered from acute ringing....
If you are experiencing ringing, you are doing damage.

I have family members who are audiologists, who expressed concern that I don't wear hearing protection when I play. However, I am not a heavy hitter, and my bandmates don't go in for volume wars.

The info I received from my tame audiologists is that if you are experiencing ringing or any other auditory artefacts, you are damaging your hearing.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

No ringing means you HAVE DAMAGED your hearing.
You ARE DAMAGING your hearing when you still think all goes well and play unprotected.

Jeez man don't take the risk, there are SO many who regret it.
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Old 06-17-2017, 05:28 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

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Originally Posted by picodon View Post
Jeez man don't take the risk, there are SO many who regret it.
Yep. I would give anything to have been smarter about ear protection when I was younger. :(
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Man just seeing Bermuda say this hear I know I need to be better about this. I've been doing a lot of recording with just studio headphones, turned up pretty loud to be able to hear the track and my drums well enough. I should probably invest in some real in-ears, or least wear earplugs under the headphones via Todd... but I find that makes it hard to hear the track well enough!
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:22 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Thsoe 64's should have had good isolation.

I just got some custom ultimate ear 5's and I can't believe he or click into it also.. This way I have control over my drum volume with the mics, and everything else. I am able to keep ALL the volumes low and not be causing damage.

With regular ear buds the ambient drums would come threw so much I would have to keep turning up and up to hear the click/tracks Then I start hitting harder and it becomes a vicious circle.

To me it sounds like your customs maybe had a bad seal and were letting in to much ambient sound. When the seal is off too you lose all the low end.

Did you use a bit block while making the ear impressions?

You could always put a set of gun range hearing protection (or some vic firth type cans ) over top of your in ears for extra isolation

It's also a good way to learn to play quiet. If you can't hear the backing track play quiet rather than turn it up.. Helps with the dynamics. You could also try using some extra moongel, cymbal mutes, practice pad just to keep the drums from ringing less.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Hi Andy, I'm not familiar with the 1964 in-ears, but I took a look at the Shure, and that model doesn't have very good isolation, I don't care what the rating says. It claims up to 37db, and if true, you'd barely be able to hear your drums at all.

As a drummer, you have to start with real molds to protect your hearing, not foam or rubber earpiece adapters. You get what you pay for, and unfortunately, you'll be paying with your hearing, which is precious, and priceless. When it's gone, it's gone. When you lose the highs, they won't come back. You're kind of young to be having problems, all the more reason you need to take action now. Not the beginning of next year, not after Labor Day, but on Monday, June 19. Tomorrow, Saturday, if possible.

Go to an audiologist who makes impressions for in-ears (same as hearing aids I suppose) and 1) get your hearing tested, and 2) get impressions made. They'll give them to you right there, and you can send them to a specialized in-ear monitor company such as JH Audio (that's what I use), Ultimate Ears, or Sensaphonics (I think they specialize in silicone molds rather than hard plastic.)

Once you're set up with better ear protection, turn the volume down. You won't need it very loud to overcome the little bit of acoustic drum leakage. If you're not hearing your drums very well, that's good! Set up a mic to feed them into your mix, at a reasonable level of course. You really don't need anything to be loud, as long as the balance is good.

But basically do whatever you need to in order to halt further damage. You think in-ears are expensive? There is NO amount of money that will fix your hearing.

Bermuda
I've been wearing hearing aids since i was 5 years old. Most hearing aids nowadays have an automatic feature which ramps the volume down when you end up in a very loud situation but amplify just enough so that the sound is still clear. Of course if you turn the hearing aids off they are the most perfectly fitted earplugs you can buy. The auto volume adjustment is probably why i haven't had any change in my hearing in the 25 years since i started wearing them despite being around loud music a very large percentage of the time. Of course wearing hearing aids means that i can't use in ear monitors. Good hearing aids are about $6,000 a pair but totally worth the price. Going to an audiologist is a very important step in addressing your problem. You probably are not at the point where you do need hearing aids yet but double checking is always a good idea.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CYP View Post
I've been doing a lot of recording with just studio headphones, turned up pretty loud to be able to hear the track and my drums well enough.
Good isolation phones are a smart investment, and considerably less expensive than molded in-ears. The only possible concern would be vanity while performing, but in a studio or rehearsal situation, 'looks' really shouldn't matter.

All of these phones have great isolation, but the difference in price has to do with sound quality. Vic Firth is the least expensive, and has passable sound. Extreme Isolation phones sound somewhat better, but aren't high fidelity (I tried them a dozen years ago, and the supposedly improved model just 2 years ago, did not like them.) The most expensive, and in my opinion the best sounding, are the GK-Music Ultraphones. They're $220, which is really not that expensive, but a lot of drummers will 'settle' for the Extreme Isolation phones at almost $100 less. Well, you actually do get what you pay for with both phones, and I don't know why anyone wouldn't want the best fidelity. Although I've stopped using them on stage (for logistical reasons only, they still sound better than my in-ears at 6x the price!) I still use them exclusively in the studio.

Regardless which phones are used, there's one common aspect to successful isolation: you can't have a bunch of hair - it doesn't allow the earcups to make the necessary seal for blocking outside sounds. Very short hair (my situation), or none at all, is ideal for isolation. Otherwise, don't spend the money on any of them, in-ears are going to be the best solution.

Bermuda
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:18 AM
cutaway79 cutaway79 is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Ultimate Ears custom molded in-ear monitors... Not cheap (around a grand when I got them), but like others here have said, you get what you pay for. For what it's worth, I got them about 15 years ago, and they're still going strong. Had to replace the cord once about 5 years ago, and they gave it to me for free.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:55 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Andee, what does the click itself sound like? Is it that bright, annoying, high-pitched wood block sound? Or maybe that f-ing awful ProTools click tone? If so, try swapping click sounds for an MPC-type sound that is much darker and mellower. Listening to a high-pitched click for hours on end is bound to give you problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
Ultimate Ears custom molded in-ear monitors... Not cheap (around a grand when I got them), but like others here have said, you get what you pay for. For what it's worth, I got them about 15 years ago, and they're still going strong. Had to replace the cord once about 5 years ago, and they gave it to me for free.
+1. The "vent" option is worth the extra cost as well. You can still hear some of the ambient noise from the drums/band, and that is nice. Or, you can plug them up for high-volume gigs that require maximum isolation. Or, add over-the-ear protection of some kind.

Are you able to control the volume of the click independently? Can you adjust the volume of the track without affecting the click? What about the volume of the rest of the mix (i.e. drums and/or the rest of the band)? Hopefully you have a small mixer next to you so that you have good control over your own mix. In this case you would have 4 independent channels: click, tracks, band, and drums.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Ok, see this picture? Your in-ears come with the black foam pads. Switch them out with a pair of the gray ones. They isolate MUCH better than the black foam ones.





Also, if you are practicing with a click or backing tracks and you are having to crank your monitors above your drums, maybe start using hot rods or something and turn your monitor volume down. In addition, you may be practicing in a "loud room." Maybe "treat" your room or move to another space.

Hope this helps! :)
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

I use Shure 215s but I had to find the right tips. I use Comply tips and not just any tips. You need to find the right tips that isolate the best. It is about sealing the ear canal.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:23 AM
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veecharlie veecharlie is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Guys remember above 85db we are in a potential danger for hearing loss.
I am using fortunately very unhappy with my vic firth headphones. I should have taken the kat ones that I tried at the store, they isolated better.
Good in ears and try to put the monitors less hard.. I think we all have this problem.. I'm struggling every rehearsal because I find the volume too high.. suddenly my ringing got higher again. Very angry about it.. don't let it be the same for you
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:50 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Hi All,

First off, thanks for the response to this thread; it's obviously a hot topic... and it should be!

So to reply to a few of the comments;

Quote:
Which is why I believe you are not getting a great seal with your in-ears. I can hear some banging through my earbuds, but no hats or ride. Some crash, but that's it. I use the mic to mix in some of the drums, so I can tell what I'm doing.
- AzHeat

That's some amazing isolation! It has me wondering if the seal I have with the current (Shure SE215) and the 1964 custom moulds was sub-par. I have never experienced this level of sound isolation.

Quote:
Your music source plus a mic on the drums, fed into a mixer of some sort, fed to your in-ears or earbuds, with a heavy duty set of shooting muffs over the top will get you the quietest possible combination for playing along to tracks, in my experience. You can set the volume really low and still hear everything.
- IDDrummer

I am currently playing with the SE215's and shooting muffs over the top of those. They are high quality American made muffs and I am bald, so no hair to leak sound through! I still experience the problems described in my original post, even with in-ears plus shooting muffs.... :-(

Hi Bermuda;

I certainly don't believe the numbers that Shure put out for in-ear-monitors. At the same time, the seal feels more complete to me than it ever did with my custom moulded in-ear monitors. I use the extra large foam tips and it feels very similar to me to the feel of foam ear plugs.

Thanks Bermuda for extensive post. I have done pretty much everything that you have suggested, just not in the suggested 'order'. This is what kinda leaves me disheartened with my situation. I went to an audiologist for my ear impressions four years ago. I went a bit 'cheap' with the 1964 ears company...I doubt they are up to he standard of JH Audio or Ultimate Ears. I didn't get a hearing test at the time but I had one about 7 months ago. The audiologist told me that the kind of hearing loss I have she commonly sees in people in their 50's.

I am still wondering now if I should give custom moulded in-ear monitors a second chance.....everyone's experiences here are not at all like mine!

BonerPizza; thanks for the link; I already use the largest foam inserts for the Shure and the seal feels 'complete' to me. In terms of in's and out's; if I am practicing on my own I plug straight into my iPhone. If I am with the band it's into a little mixer to split music and click track. On my own it's either all music or all click into my ears.

@picodon; I have never tried the Vic Firth Isolation headphones but I trust the company (love their sticks). Can over-ears ever do as good a job as in-ear monitors? As I described above, I have a quality pair of shooting-muffs that don't seem to help my situation...

Quote:
To me it sounds like your customs maybe had a bad seal and were letting in to much ambient sound. When the seal is off too you lose all the low end.

Did you use a bit block while making the ear impressions?

You could always put a set of gun range hearing protection (or some vic firth type cans ) over top of your in ears for extra isolation
Comparing my story to ours and others here, I am starting to feel that you are correct and that my impressions were not great. Such an easy way to throw away money and hearing! I did get the impressions with a bite block. But, as I mentioned above, shooting muffs on top of the in-ears doeasnt work- I am wondering if the cable from the monitors cuts the seal of the muffs?

Bermuda; what are your thoughts in my situation in terms of where I go from here. Specifically with trying new moulds and new custom in-ears versus isolation headphone style?

@brentfn; I am currently just using the wood block type click that comes with the 'Tempo Advance' app on my iPhone. Actually a nice sounding click in terms of not sounding aggressive. My guitarist made some click tracks from Logic on his Mac that I could feel in my teeth! I got him to EQ to where it was not harmful to me.

Thanks for the tip @PorkPieGuy; I will give the grey ones another shot, but in my experience the large black foam ones have given me the best isolation.


Just a general point; in addition to the beginnings of hearing loss that I have, I am starting to wonder if I have hyperacuasis. Loud noises have always been painful to me where others around me didn't seem bothered by it.

Is it a thing that your threshold for damage is lowered as you get more hearing loss? I am at the point now where if I play rudiments on a practice pad for half an hour in an echoey room, I will have acute ringing in my ears for the rest of the day. Just from the volume of sticks on a pad!
Just got back to the UK from a 3.5 hour flight from Malaga yesterday... my ears are still ringing 24 hours later, just from the airplane cabin noise (the sound of 400 mph wind outside I guess!). Yup, hearing loss is a real shite.

Thanks again everyone,

Andy
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:20 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndeeT View Post
The audiologist told me that the kind of hearing loss I have she commonly sees in people in their 50's.
At age 28, that's obviously not good.

Quote:
Bermuda; what are your thoughts in my situation in terms of where I go from here. Specifically with trying new moulds and new custom in-ears versus isolation headphone style?
Since you're bald, I'd say that you can start with isolation phones. They'll provide a good seal and are typically rated -25 to -29db, which is where in-ears are (realistically) rated. You'll save some money, and there's a convenience and comfort factor as well. If you're not concerned with fidelity so much, try the Vic Firth Stereo Isolation phones (SIH 1, $69.99 at Sam Ash.)

Quote:
Is it a thing that your threshold for damage is lowered as you get more hearing loss? I am at the point now where if I play rudiments on a practice pad for half an hour in an echoey room, I will have acute ringing in my ears for the rest of the day. Just from the volume of sticks on a pad!
I suppose the more damage you have, the less you can then get... but that's certainly not good news. The goal is to halt further damage asap. There's obviously a sensitivity issue if sticks on a rubber pad causes ringing. Ask the audiologist what they recommend. From a fidelity standpoint, can you hear highs alright? Cymbals sizzling, jingly tambourines, crisp shakers, that kind of stuff?

As a side note, in general, the audiologist's job is to make sure speech can be recognized. Basically, if you have decent hearing up to 4k or so, that's ultimately more important than anything else you need to hear. And they can't restore the highs anyway if they're gone. :(

You really need to address this again with a specialist, ASAP. If you can go to the same person, they can assess the difference since your last exam.

Bermuda
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:37 AM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Bermuda is correct.

I have had hearing loss since I was 5 years old. I guess it's not a "loss" because I was born with it. I have been wearing hearing aides for over 40 years.

From what you have described I believe you need to see a really good hearing doctor. Not just an audiologist who sells hearing aides.
Most audiologists have not been trained in solving complex hearing problems. Find a good ear doctor A.S.A.P.
I believe, from what you have described, you have some serious hearing issues.

.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:50 AM
The Tank The Tank is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Skimmed through the replies and from what I've read you guys are making this way too complicated.

Just get some standard Vic Firth isolation muffs for $20 and put your regular $40 earbuds underneath it.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Vic-Firth/dB22-Isolation-Headset-1274115062398.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CI XA_IaFzNQCFQpMDQod1DoEyA&kwid=productads-adid^76729338762-device^c-plaid^151365589962-sku^1274115062398@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

no need to buy super expensive in-ear headphones unless you're planning on gigging to a click and don't wanna look like Mickey Mouse on stage.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:11 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tank View Post
Skimmed through the replies and from what I've read you guys are making this way too complicated.

Just get some standard Vic Firth isolation muffs for $20 and put your regular $40 earbuds underneath it.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Vic-Firth/dB22-Isolation-Headset-1274115062398.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CI XA_IaFzNQCFQpMDQod1DoEyA&kwid=productads-adid^76729338762-device^c-plaid^151365589962-sku^1274115062398@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

no need to buy super expensive in-ear headphones unless you're planning on gigging to a click and don't wanna look like Mickey Mouse on stage.

When he said he had a set of 1964's before and some Shures I figured he didn't really feel like using some Skull Candy or Iphone earbuds under cans at this point.

The UE5's I have were very expensive, but what I hear in them is unreal. It's so clear I am turned way down too. Plus customs DO provide the best isolation, when the seal is made properly. You MUST use the bite block doing your impressions. And lastly comfort. Customs you can keep in your ears all day.


Now don't get me wrong. I have done the Vic's over the buds many a time in my life. It provides good isolation, but I find my ears tend to hurt with the cable sticking out.


If your going the earbud route check and see if the COMPLY tips work.. they are about $15 for a pack of 3. They will make your Shure, or any earbud like the M6 Mee knockoff or all that stuff isolate WAAAAY better than the stock stuff. That would be your cheapest option and starting point. the 215's you have should sound good and have decent isolation with a proper seal.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:53 PM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

One thing that can definitely help the volume wars with yourself is to mic your drums and mix them into what you're hearing. Slightly more costly solution, but so worth it.

I use a simple four-channel Yamaha mixer at home for my practice setup. I've got an oddball set of mics that nevertheless give me a great in-ear mix: a Sennheiser 604 used as a snare mic; a Shure Beta 91A parked just in front of the bass drum hoop, which gets the kick as well as the toms and some of the underside of the snare; and a single overhead centered on the kit. (Fourth channel is for electronic module input or for vocals if I need to practice my background vocals and drum at the same time). Is it the most professional sound? No, but it captures the whole kit, and is cost-effective (I bought all the bits used). You wouldn't lay down tracks for your next CD on it, but for this it's fine.

My laptop is fed into the tape in RCA jack for playback; the mixer has a monitor gain knob where I can mix the mics with the playback just right so that I blend, not overpower, the music. From there I put in my triple-flanged in-ears, and a set of isolation muffs over that. I can hear very little of the outside world at that point.I then adjust the volume on the mixer to where it's comfortable - which is usually much lower than if I'd not miked the drums, because I can hear myself perfectly in proportion to the music.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

If your going the earbud route check and see if the COMPLY tips work.. they are about $15 for a pack of 3. They will make your Shure, or any earbud like the M6 Mee knockoff or all that stuff isolate WAAAAY better than the stock stuff. That would be your cheapest option and starting point. the 215's you have should sound good and have decent isolation with a proper seal.


This^^^^
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:49 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Thanks again all,

@Hollywood Jim; I will try and see if I can convince my GP to refer me to to a hearing specialist but it's not that simple in the English health service unfortunately...it's more down to the doctors decision than mine.

@ The Tank; that is my current set up; gun-muffs over the Shure215s.... the gun muffs hardly add any more isolation I find... they just alter the frequencies.

@beyondbetrayal; thanks for the tip about the Comply's. I guess at this point that is my cheapest option. If no luck with that, then I can try the avid Firth Cans....if that doesn't work for me then some more custom in-ears, with a decent moulded this time!

On the subject of custom in-ears; I think part of the reason that mine didn't fit so well is that I have massive ears, with a massive void area (it's called the 'concha' apparently). This meant that my in-ears had a large plastic area that sat outside of the actual 'in-ear' part and I always got the feeling that this lump of plastic was 'pushing' the 'in-ear'/canal part of the monitors out of where they should be......kinda hard to reconcile in a custom mould though....


@bermuda; since the hearing damage, music definitely sounds more compressed, as if I am listening to the same music at a lower bitrate. Cymbals don't sound too different but what does sound different is the higher strings of a guitar. They definitely sound muddier now to me. So the couple of hundred Hz area.

Regards,

Andy
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:10 PM
loach71 loach71 is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Visit this site. Lots of hearing protection information.
Etymotic makes great products!

https://www.etymotic.com/
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  #33  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:36 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Thanks for the link etymotic Loach71.

Update; I have jury rigged my 1964 V2 in-ear monitors with blu-tack as suggested over at the head-to forums;

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/di.../#post_7870434

I am so happy with the results! I have halved the volume on my iPhone and the sound is 'fuller' than ever :-).

The seal was definitely poor-quality on these customs.... a shame really that there is not more guidance for first time buyers of custom in ear-monitors. I did not know what to expect really; so I thought that the limited isolation I had was standard. Now I know the truth. But my ears have paid for it :-(. It really sounds like the outside world is sealed off to my ears now.

Will try them in anger on Friday and let you know how I get on.

Love your ears,

Andy
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  #34  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:23 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Told you it was the seal :P hahaha jk.

It is pretty crazy if I say yawn really huge while playing and it opens a bit.
I lose all of the low end, and the volume really changes and It just sounds like a mess. When the seal is perfect it is unbelievable how good it sounds.

I have heard good reviews on the 64's so that makes total sense.
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  #35  
Old 06-22-2017, 05:42 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Yea, thanks everyone for suggesting checking the seal. I was convinced that my ears were somehow different and just were doomed to be damaged....silly

And yes, not only better isolation, but he sound is much richer. It almost sounds like how it did before my hearing damage :-).

The only problem is that with the blu-tack, they are not the most comfortable things to put in my ears. But hey, if it saves my hearing, the skin around my ears will have to take a little punishment until I can get my hands on some new in-ears.

I would like to order some ACS silicone in-ears, but I move to New Zealand (from U.K.) in five weeks so I am worried the timescales wouldn't work out. A shame as well, as I will probably be paying a lot more for them in New Zealand...
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:54 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

As other have said, -pass miking of your kit, the backing track and anything else you want to hear into a mixer, send it out to in-ear headphones and wear high db rated over the ear style ear protection.

Also gets your feet wet with mixing and miking.

Check out Mackie Mixers...nice for the price...but you can pull this off inexpensively.(one mic hung up over but just behind your head, a used 4 track recorder that accepts 4 inputs, cheap-o in-ear headphones and moderate quality over the ear mufflers with high db rating)
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  #37  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:06 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Can I drum with backing tracks and not lose my hearing?

Thanks. For now I am having trouble with too much sound getting to my ears from the outside. Once I have this under control maybe I can think about getting a feed of my drums through a mic.
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