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  #1  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:25 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default New Rogers...really?

Anyone excited about the new Dixon made, assembled by Pork Pie, reproductions that DONT say made in the USA?.
I'm not even remotely interested in this. Take a look at all the others who have tried this and try to determine how long the buzz will last.
It goes to show you that the industry is no longer capable of re inventing the wheel, or improving it.
Wheels on the bus go round and round..
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

I was just at a Clinic sponsored by Dixon and the marketing director stated that Dixon drums are made in Taiwan, by a company that has been making OEM drums for a long time. I saw two kits made by Dixon and couldn't care less who made them. The looked great and sounded great . Not sure where you got the info or what your are trying to say. He didn't mention Pork Pie or Rogers at all. Maybe all three brands are made by the same parent company.

Pork Pie has USA made drums and Little Squealer that are made in Taiwan.

Rogers:

Yamaha displayed its new Rogers drums at winter NAMM 2007. The drums appear to be an amalgam of different Rogers eras, with some Yamaha touches.

In 2013, the rights to Rogers drums were acquired by Joseph Chen, then the president of Dixon Drums. Nothing has been done with the brand as of April 2015 and its future is uncertain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Drums
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Last edited by GruntersDad; 05-26-2017 at 02:50 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:38 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

I'm told Dixon made the hardware, shells are Keller but some disagree with this, and Bill Detamore is putting them together to be sold by Maxwells in Chicago/New York. Its all just starting to surface, so we should get answers soon.
I have heard that Dixon does indeed make great drums, and have been doing so for a long time. There is so much going on in Taiwan as far as drums go!!
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

There has been a lot of buzz about it on Facebook lately. They were unveiled at the Chicago drum show. Looks like American shells and wrap with the hardware made overseas by Dixon. Bill Detamore is going to be putting all these drums together. As SonorMapex mentioned, these will be exclusively available through Maxwell's shop.

They will also be selling snare parts and it has been hinted that there are plans for Swivo parts and full kits in the future.
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  #5  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Reliance owns Dixon and other companies, and has OEM'd hardware (esp. parts) for companies for decades.

About 4 years ago, Reliance bought the Rogers name from Yahama USA, and placed it in their Antigua Winds division, headed by Grant Henry (Grant is ex-Ludwig management.) At that time, Grant asked me and others (confidentially of course) how to best handle the name and avoid the mistake that Yamaha USA made by issuing the brand as an entry level line. I suggested to start with the Dynasonic, made exactly to spec, with the correct hardware, and even offer genuine Rogers replacement parts (which would be easy to do with Reliance as the parent!)

Well, nothing happened for a few years, Grant left Antigua, and the name was moved under Dixon, where it should have gone in the first place. I saw some of the shells Bill Detamore was working on last year, but the product was apparently not ready for NAMM.

I saw a pic of the wood Dynasonic, so I guess things are finally underway. It may be too little too late, but at least the brand is being honored properly.

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  #6  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

If this means there are going to be some cheaper North American Maple Keller shell kits floating around out there, count me in...as long as the edges are good. I don't care what the logo says.
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I suggested to start with the Dynasonic, made exactly to spec, with the correct hardware, and even offer genuine Rogers replacement parts (which would be easy to do with Reliance as the parent!)
Seems like they took your sound advice to heart. Some of the collectors are getting excited over the re-issued "bread and butter" lugs. They're made of stronger material than the weak brass originals which were prone to cracking.

I don't care where these parts were made, they're going to breathe new life into a bunch of poor old drums with cracked lugs that can't be played. Plus, someone on the FB group pointed out, now someone can score a Dyna shell off the 'bay for cheap and assemble a new Dyna out of these repro parts.

OP's "wheels on the bus" attitude has been kicked around online quite a bit. Some of the more hardline purists even suggested separating groups because they don't want to see these drums with repro parts. I don't care where they were made, I am just happy to see someone who cares looking to bring the Rogers name to its former glory. I'm not going to be one of these cats that spends $800 on a repro Dyna (I'm too cheap) but I am really enjoying seeing all these hardcore collectors all giddy like kids on Christmas.
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  #8  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:56 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

In the guitar world, it's nice to be able to obtain re-issues of the instruments that were released in the 50s/60s/70s. Even companies that no longer exist (Univox, Mosrite, Airline, etc) have had their rights purchased and the guitars reissued. In many ways, these reissues are better than the real deal.

I feel the same way about my GWay, and hopefully the new Rogers will be no different.

Many make the "Dixon vs Keller" argument, but I'd really like to speak to someone that has done an in-depth side-by-side comparison of the two shops' output. I'd also like to see that the price discrepancy is for a large run of shells.
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Old 05-23-2017, 07:46 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Bermuda; "It may be to little to late"
Do you think they missed their window of opportunity to enter the market, by leaving it to idle too long?
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2017, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Am forever amazed so much debate and energy is devoted to the pedigree of drums and parts, rather than their sound, quality and workmanship.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2017, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Am forever amazed so much debate and energy is devoted to the pedigree of drums and parts, rather than their sound, quality and workmanship.
I think the main reason for this is that there's never been a published Apples to Apples comparison of a Keller shell and a Dixon shell (or any other shell producer), and neither company seems too interested in doing this comparison.

When you do not make it easy for consumers to obtain detailed product information, or deliberately hide behind the guise of "trade secrets", they will often make it up by extrapolating on any anecdotal tidbits they find.

Don't get me wrong, I purchased my GW based on a ~15 minute playing at DCP.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2017, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Don't get me wrong, I purchased my GW based on a ~15 minute playing at DCP.
As would have I, they are simply beautiful sounding drums.
But I personally wouldn't give a rats *ss they were made by Dunnett, have shells from Smith, lugs from Jones and assembled by Witherspoon.....in Taiwan or not. To me, the sound of the sum product is what matters and most important to judge.
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

None of us does as much research as to parts manufacture of cars and or houses and we pay a ton more for them as we do drums. Who did make those spark plugs in my Japanese car, now made in the States,
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
None of us does as much research as to parts manufacture of cars and or houses and we pay a ton more for them as we do drums. Who did make those spark plugs in my Japanese car, now made in the States,
I don't bother with such things. As long as it says "Toyota" on it, I trust that it is sturdy and well made.

Back the topic at hand, just got a reply from Steve Maxwell. They sell a replacement bridge for my Dyna WITH wires for a pretty good price. I think I'm going to score one for myself.
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:12 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
None of us does as much research as to parts manufacture of cars and or houses and we pay a ton more for them as we do drums.
I assure you, some of us very much do. Especially houses and cars.
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Am forever amazed so much debate and energy is devoted to the pedigree of drums and parts, rather than their sound, quality and workmanship.
Some could state that sound , quality and workmanship is the reason they have a pedigree. Rogers are still very fine drums, Some say Buddy sounded best on them.
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  #17  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:26 AM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Early to mid 60,s were outstanding drums by Rogers. I played them for years and found them very road worthy, and the hardware was the very best!
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  #18  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

I don't understand reissuing something at at a lesser degree than the original. of course it will fail. i think they were pretty good right up to 1970. But then a lot of things went down the crapper after then.
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  #19  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
Bermuda; "It may be to little to late"
Do you think they missed their window of opportunity to enter the market, by leaving it to idle too long?
Certainly a possibility. The name was sort of dormant for a while before Yamaha USA soured it by issuing entry-level kits under the brand. And then, dormant again for the last 4-5 years.

Aficionados are skeptical, and others just view it as another Keller-sheller (even though it's not.)

I believe Steve Maxwell is currently the US distributor (not sure why it's not Dixon...) and he's going to have to market these smartly. I'm sure the drums are great again, but it's going to be a tough sell.

Bermuda
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  #20  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

These drums sound amazing, and all the different Shell concotion's that are available is awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W96M...ature=youtu.be
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  #21  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

They sound very processed to me.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2017, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

A discussion held on the Dynasomic on this forum from January

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=135084
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

i did see a pic of the original Rogers shell molds from Ohio in use by Maxwell and Co. a few days ago. certainly has me a bit interested.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Am forever amazed so much debate and energy is devoted to the pedigree of drums and parts, rather than their sound, quality and workmanship.

I agree. After 3 attempts to keep production in North America I have decided to have Way kits manufactured entirely in Taiwan. I make drums, not flags.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

I can assure everyone these are not Keller shells.
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  #26  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:10 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
I agree. After 3 attempts to keep production in North America I have decided to have Way kits manufactured entirely in Taiwan. I make drums, not flags.
Out of curiosity, what were the hurdles you encountered? Was it price, regulatory, sourcing, quality, all of the above, none of the above, none of my GD business?

Also, does this mean the end of the Pork Way (George Pie) era?

Love my GW BTW. First lesson on the new kit is this Friday.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Drums bear the flags of birth.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:37 PM
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Drums bear the flags of birth.
My drums are born in my imagination.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
I can assure everyone these are not Keller shells.
How about laying some of your industry know-how on us there Ron?

Where are the shells made? Are they overseas made?
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Out of curiosity, what were the hurdles you encountered? Was it price, regulatory, sourcing, quality, all of the above, none of the above, none of my GD business?

Also, does this mean the end of the Pork Way (George Pie) era?

Love my GW BTW. First lesson on the new kit is this Friday.
The first series of Way kits were made in Canada. There 50 sets. It took me about 8 weeks to complete all of them. It was a lot of work given the size of my shop. Most of those kits were built in the warm Vancouver sunshine if you know what I mean.

After Carter McLean became a George Way artist, his video efforts (and exceptional recording / performances) meant there was some pent up demand so I decided to take orders for the second series. The response was overwhelming and the order size doubled. There was no way I could possibly keep up or do the run on my own so I contacted my dear friend Bill and asked if he would be willing to take it on - and he did. I flew to LA and helped build the first run of US made Way kits. (And at this point I need to clarify, that is Made in USA from imported and domestic components - which is a qualified claim). That run went very well.

The second run did not go so well. I wasn't there for that one and I'll just say there were a sufficient number of headaches (continuity being one) that I decided it just didn't make any sense to do it that way.

Frankly, there was absolutely no difference in the end quality. None. It was just more work. The people who care about drums being made in North America are barkers not buyers and the buyers - like myself - care less about where it was made than the design and quality. I care about my dealers and customers and I want to offer the highest quality and consistency in my products and I don't care if that means going to Taiwan or Toronto - I am going there.

I was at my partner factory in Taichung in April. A very high-tech facility, so clean you could eat of the machines. The owners and employees understand drums and drummers and they care very deeply about the instruments they are producing. And they are producing them to my exact standards. They shells are of the highest quality - easily superior to anything like Keller. I spent time learning the build process and even built a few shells in an effort to learn and understand the process better. I am in involved. And as I mentioned, the real factory is in my head - where I bring my ideas to fruition doesn't matter to my customers.
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  #31  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:00 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

For those idealistic individuals that demand US shells and want a vintage-reproduction kit, I believe Stone Custom is making Slingerland clones these days.... With the original Slingerland shell molds.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=135345

I believe C&C is also a viable option.

Personally, the COO isn't as important to me as the quick check to make sure slave labor isn't involved.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Menace View Post
How about laying some of your industry know-how on us there Ron?

Where are the shells made? Are they overseas made?
Yes - the shells are made in Taiwan as are the metal components. The people and companies behind this project are exceptional.
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
For those idealistic individuals that demand US shells and want a vintage-reproduction kit, I believe Stone Custom is making Slingerland clones these days.... With the original Slingerland shell molds.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=135345

I believe C&C is also a viable option.

Personally, the COO isn't as important to me as the quick check to make sure slave labor isn't involved.

Bernie and Bill are friends and industry colleagues of mine and they both make excellent products. Having said that, they - like ALL of us - use imported components. If your drum has a tension rod - it has imported components.

Having been to Taiwan many times I can assure you - there is no slave labour. I actually laughed when I read that. The people working in the various manufacturing facilities are wonderful, happy people with a high standard of living. I can't even begin to describe to you what a wonderful experience it is every time I visit. The people are so kind and generous. On my most recent visit I was treated like family - and in a way we are family when it comes to the work we do. I cherish those relationships.

I think there is a great deal of myth and bad intel when it comes to overseas manufacturing.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:25 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
Bernie and Bill are friends and industry colleagues of mine and they both make excellent products. Having said that, they - like ALL of us - use imported components. If your drum has a tension rod - it has imported components.

Having been to Taiwan many times I can assure you - there is no slave labour. I actually laughed when I read that. The people working in the various manufacturing facilities are wonderful, happy people with a high standard of living. I can't even begin to describe to you what a wonderful experience it is every time I visit. The people are so kind and generous. On my most recent visit I was treated like family - and in a way we are family when it comes to the work we do. I cherish those relationships.

I think there is a great deal of myth and bad intel when it comes to overseas manufacturing.
Indeed. That's one of the reasons I'll order from Taiwan/Japan without hesitation, but will vet out Chinese (and a few other APAC countries) manufacturers to make certain they're somewhat legitimate. I had a crisis of conscious a decade back when I learned I had ordered several thousand electrical transformers that were assembled by children.

These days, I just run a quick IPEC check. I haven't had an issue since.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
Having said that, they - like ALL of us - use imported components. If your drum has a tension rod - it has imported components.
I agree with your sentiment there Ron but I do believe that Guru has theirs made for them in England.
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunnett View Post
Bernie and Bill are friends and industry colleagues of mine and they both make excellent products. Having said that, they - like ALL of us - use imported components. If your drum has a tension rod - it has imported components.

Having been to Taiwan many times I can assure you - there is no slave labour. I actually laughed when I read that. The people working in the various manufacturing facilities are wonderful, happy people with a high standard of living. I can't even begin to describe to you what a wonderful experience it is every time I visit. The people are so kind and generous. On my most recent visit I was treated like family - and in a way we are family when it comes to the work we do. I cherish those relationships.

I think there is a great deal of myth and bad intel when it comes to overseas manufacturing.
People enjoying their work, taking pride in their work, earning a good living doing something they like while creating a well made instrument that someone is gonna enjoy.

Sounds good to me...regardless of what country those people are in.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

Yup, its so true. I love what I see coming from Mexico and Indonesia. Top notch craftsmanship there as well. I'm not sure what the standards of living are over there, but the drums are wonderful.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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My drums are born in my imagination.
Wow! that's deep. i am not a barker i am a buyer. you lost me.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: New Rogers...really?

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I agree with your sentiment there Ron but I do believe that Guru has theirs made for them in England.
The exception always proves the rule.
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
Wow! that's deep. i am not a barker i am a buyer. you lost me.
What I mean is that in general terms those who snivel about COO are "idealistic" at best, hypocritical trolls at worst. Most of those arguments are empty and baseless and formed on little more than ignorance.

The coward only threatens when he is safe.
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