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  #1  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:06 PM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Watching a clip from an old concert and thought I,d take in the intro to Stairway to Heaven,..but wait, its not happening!!
Collins on drums???
Its just not right, how long did he play with Zep?
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2017, 07:12 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
Watching a clip from an old concert and thought I,d take in the intro to Stairway to Heaven,..but wait, its not happening!!
Collins on drums???
Its just not right, how long did he play with Zep?
You may be seeing the lost Live Aid footage. Is there another drummer on stage? That would be Tony Thompson. Jimmy Page hated it and refused to have it included in the DVD set. It was a bit of a shambles because Phil couldn't make the rehearsal.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

In fairness to Phil he's far from the least rehearsed person on that stage...
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2017, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Kind of funny that one little clip from 30 years ago gets so much discussion on this board.
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  #5  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

If it's the same clip I'm thinking of, it's Live Aid
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  #6  
Old 05-22-2017, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Phil talks about this at length in his new book.
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
how long did he play with Zep?
Thankfully it was only one gig.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:52 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Keith Moon played for Zep as much as Phil did. Which is to say almost but not quite not at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyM6-QibDFM
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Keith Moon played for Zep as much as Phil did. Which is to say almost but not quite not at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyM6-QibDFM
never saw that before. i saw them that tour. keith sure loved those tympani, lol
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:27 AM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

When I see footage like that I'm reminded what an accomplished drummer he was. Miles ahead of most rockers from those days!
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
..........I'm reminded what an accomplished drummer he was.
It would have been nice to see it on that particular gig though.

Granted, it was all round woeful. But Phil sure seemed to do more than his share to ensure it was so.
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:38 AM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

This may seem odd, but I hear similarities between Bonham and Morello. Maybe its the snare drum sound, because they are both incredible, but my old ears hear the influence passed down...Its the way they play the snare drum...check it out.
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by sonormapex View Post
This may seem odd, but I hear similarities between Bonham and Morello. Maybe its the snare drum sound, because they are both incredible, but my old ears hear the influence passed down...Its the way they play the snare drum...check it out.
Half of his Moby Dick solo is stuff that Morello was playing in his solos 10 years earlier.
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Links, man, include links!! lol
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Keith Moon played for Zep as much as Phil did. Which is to say almost but not quite not at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyM6-QibDFM
Oh wow, I hadn't seen that clip.

Of course Moon was almost in Zep. The original idea floated around (probably over too many drinks) was John Entwistle and Keith Moon were going to leave The Who and form a new band with Jimmy Page and call it Lead Zeppelin. John and Keith ultimately couldn't bring themselves to quit the Who, and Page kept the name, dropping the "A' out of Lead.

Still, not surprising Keith joined them on stage at some point, as it's been well documented that Keith Moon was friends with and hung out with Led Zeppelin.
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Phil Collins know the Zep live Aid performance was bad.

He said he knew is was bad as it was happening and considered just leaving the stage:

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/phil-...elin-live-aid/

Quote:
Phil Collins says he considered quitting mid-performance during Led Zeppelin‘s underwhelming reunion show at Live Aid on July 13, 1985.
In fact, he tells Q, that he realized “this is a mistake” even as the set got underway. Collins was filling in, along with Tony Thompson of Chic, for the late John Bonham — whose 1980 death had precipitated Led Zeppelin’s breakup.

This initial reunion, however, had come after little rehearsal time, as Collins also performed earlier that day at the Live Aid event in London — then caught a Concord to Philadelphia for the Zeppelin gig. Worse still, there were technical problems for Jimmy Page and vocal issues for Robert Plant.

“It was a disaster, really. Robert wasn’t match-fit with his voice and Jimmy was out of it, dribbling. It wasn’t my fault it was crap,” Collins says. “If I could have walked off, I would have. But then we’d all be talking about why Phil Collins walked off Live Aid — so I just stuck it out.”

Collins had happily collaborated on earlier Plant solo work, and admits he thought Live Aid would follow that template. Instead, he says “you could sense I wasn’t welcome” — particularly, Collins adds, on the part of Page.
“I thought it was just going to be low-key and we’d all get together and have a play,” Collins says. “But something happened between that conversation and the day — it became a Led Zeppelin reunion. I turned up and I was a square peg in a round hole. Robert was happy to see me, but Jimmy wasn’t.”
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

More from Phil:

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-10-...ive-aid-fiasco

Quote:
And if you can find the footage (the Zeppelin camp have done their best to scrub it from the history books), you can see me miming, playing the air, getting out of the way lest there be a train wreck. If I’d known it was to be a two-drummer band, I would have removed myself from proceedings long before I got anywhere near Philadelphia.
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:54 AM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

WOW!!...Touchy subject. Did not intend to start a free for all!!
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  #19  
Old 05-22-2017, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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WOW!!...Touchy subject. Did not intend to start a free for all!!
Why touchy? Seems all right to me. Just a lot of discussion. :) No one is throwing rocks, lol.
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  #20  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by Seafroggys View Post
Half of his Moby Dick solo is stuff that Morello was playing in his solos 10 years earlier.
Also have a listen to "The Drum Also Waltzes" - Max Roach

Mick
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  #21  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:08 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by Seafroggys View Post
Half of his Moby Dick solo is stuff that Morello was playing in his solos 10 years earlier.
Because he played with his hands?
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2017, 06:09 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Because he played with his hands?
The bare hand playing was borrowed from Papa Jo.
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2017, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lLCCqKl4ZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBk-iRihSUg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUw6FyrzpA
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Tony Thompson was the drummer driving the band (which also wasn't that great), Phil Collins didn't have a clue as to what to play. As a professional musician (and drummer), Collins should have been able to at least "hold his own." Hell, it was all just blues-based riffs. He was an embarrassment to himself and to his profession.

Now granted, Zeppelin themselves were a bit out of practice as well, but it was their physical presence that was the draw. Plant sounded decent, with the exception of his timing - I didn't really notice the hoarse voice. And Page wasn't at full strength physically or musically at that time when it came to performing live. I'll bet that 95% of the world-wide audience never even noticed the anemic performance.

I've read many things on John Bonham from how great his timing was to how well he could groove to he's a basic simpleton on a drum kit. With the exception of Jason Bonham, nobody who has ever sat in on stage with Page, Plant, and Jones have ever sounded good or right with them. Bonzo left incredibly big shoes to fill.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
...... Phil Collins didn't have a clue as to what to play. As a professional musician (and drummer), Collins should have been able to at least "hold his own." Hell, it was all just blues-based riffs. He was an embarrassment to himself and to his profession.
.
Sheesh, harsh, especially given the backstory on his appearance at all.
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Sheesh, harsh, especially given the backstory on his appearance at all.
Really? Phil Collins was at the height of his career at this point, that's why he played on two continents on the same day and all. Even though he was ill-prepared, he still should have been able to "jam" to the music but he was hopelessly lost.

You can tell from this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxwtp4FB1kM, Robert Plant and Phill Collins are trying desperately to make the best of what they knew was a lousy performance. Collins even tries to justify being lost during the music as, he just stopped playing to watch the crowd and see what a good time they were having.

Live Aid was built around Phil Collins and he was supposed to be the main bi-continental headliner and the Zeppelin "reunion," which it really wasn't, was the big headline of the day. Collins wanted to be part of that and blew it.

Don't get me wrong, I like Phil Collins and his music, but it came out like mixing oil and water - not too well.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
More from Phil:

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-10-...ive-aid-fiasco

And if you can find the footage (the Zeppelin camp have done their best to scrub it from the history books), you can see me miming, playing the air, getting out of the way lest there be a train wreck. If I’d known it was to be a two-drummer band, I would have removed myself from proceedings long before I got anywhere near Philadelphia.
How could he have NOT know that Tony Thompson was going to play too? Excuses... plain and simple.
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
How could he have NOT know that Tony Thompson was going to play too? Excuses... plain and simple.
Well, he knew before he hit the stage, but he made is clear he didn't know before he agreed to appear.

Phil played on Robert Plant's solo albums. They had a working relationship.

I don't know, why are so many people keen on slogging Phil Collins for one bad show out of a mega career? Hasn't everyone had that one bad show? Most of us are just lucky enough that one bad show wasn't live in front of a large TV audience and filmed for posterity.

I think there are plenty more things much more deserving of slogging in Phil's career, like the video for "Don't Lose My Number"
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

I saw the Page/Plant tour in 94.

Jimmy Page was in such bad shape they had another guitarist play the solos for Jimmy. But I guess that was Phil Collins fault too. lol.
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2017, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

I'm a massive, lifelong fan but sadly, 'Zep and friends' in Philadelphia was a shambles and major disappointment (although the fans still went wild).

By way of contrast, over on our side of the Atlantic at Wembley Stadium, Queen were well-rehearsed and stole the show with a stunning medley of their songs.

I wish Zep could have taken the same approach!

As for Phil Collins, a great drummer with Genesis and Brand X - and a big Bonham fan too. He played on Robert Plant's early solo albums and toured with him.

At Live Aid it just didn't work. It was a stunt. He performed at Wembley, then flew to the US on Concorde. As others have pointed out there was already a drummer, Tony Thompson. Collins didn't know the songs and mimed for parts of it. John Paul Jones was also a late arrival for the show.

Zep's 1988 Madison Square Garden reunion was also a mess - but thankfully they got it dead right at London's 02 Arena in 2007!
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:18 AM
sonormapex sonormapex is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Personally, going on stage high, drunk, hung over, etc is inconsiderate, and if you are guilty, you,re done. Unfortunately back then it was accepted because the crowd was 90% wasted, and if you were a famous rocker, like Page, you had immunity. I have no respect for musicians getting loaded to play, its just the way I was taught.
Now, going back to the likes of Ray Charles, Billie Holiday, Krupa, and hundreds more, they did the same thing long before the head bangers!!
Back to Collins; he had a serious drinking problem most of his life, so I'm thinking that had something to do with his show in question....To each his own.
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:05 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

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Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Tony Thompson was the drummer driving the band (which also wasn't that great), Phil Collins didn't have a clue as to what to play. As a professional musician (and drummer), Collins should have been able to at least "hold his own." Hell, it was all just blues-based riffs. He was an embarrassment to himself and to his profession.

Now granted, Zeppelin themselves were a bit out of practice as well, but it was their physical presence that was the draw. Plant sounded decent, with the exception of his timing - I didn't really notice the hoarse voice. And Page wasn't at full strength physically or musically at that time when it came to performing live. I'll bet that 95% of the world-wide audience never even noticed the anemic performance.

I've read many things on John Bonham from how great his timing was to how well he could groove to he's a basic simpleton on a drum kit. With the exception of Jason Bonham, nobody who has ever sat in on stage with Page, Plant, and Jones have ever sounded good or right with them. Bonzo left incredibly big shoes to fill.
Having seen it and read interviews about it, one of the very significant problems was that Jimmy Page, to put it politely, was suffering from significant substance misuse issues at the time. Phil Collins is no more to blame for it than anyone else on the stage. The whole thing was an under-prepared shambles. But when all is said and done it was only 20mins so who really cares.... It's well known as a car crash performance and the worst bit of Live Aid as a whole, but the day was a huge success.
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  #33  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to ..Phil Collins??

Back when they were good they had the ability to anticipate Page's off-timing. He always seemed to play with an early insinuation that usually recovered nicely if the rest of the band was on point.

Queen, on the other hand was a full, big, pro arena rock performance like I remember from the old days.
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