DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #81  
Old 10-19-2017, 06:54 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,912
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Ari Herstand mostly irritates me-- I think he's 75% FOS. His job is to barf out X number of words every week for the site he works for, and he gets pretty sloppy with his writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
7. Your scene’s gatekeepers are friends with each other. Get in with one and you’ll get in with them all. If you piss one off, prepare to be blacklisted.
They don't know each other and that's not going to happen. You'd be lucky if that many people are saying anything at all about you, good or bad.

Quote:
11. You need to conquer your hometown before you can hit the road. If no one cares about you locally, what makes you think people will care about you anywhere else?

12. Touring means nothing unless people actually show up to your shows. Do not tour unless you know how you’re going to get a crowd at every show.
13. Playing around town all the time weakens your draw. Spread out your shows so you can promote one big show every 6-8 weeks.

14. HOWEVER, when you’re starting off, you need to play out everywhere and anywhere all the time to get practice. Record every show. Once YOU love listening to your live set (and non-friends and non-family tell you they love your band) then you can book real shows and charge a cover.
Thread that needle incorrectly, and you'll never work in this business again!

Anytime anybody says "don't do important thing X until you have thing Y totally wired in advance"... that's bad advice. He's just giving you permission to put off ever doing thing X.

Quote:
15. If you suck, you do not deserve to be paid. Get good first. Then you can start charging.
No, if you suck, nobody's going to book you.

Like, what the hell is anyone supposed to do with that advice? "We'll take the gig, but we're not taking the money. We suck."

The actual answer is: Bands that "suck" (or that think they suck, or that some part of the audience thinks sucks) get booked for paying work all the time. If you are performing in a commercial setting, act like a professional regardless of what you think about your product-- or what you imagine anyone else thinks about it.

And just as a general philosophy, if you don't value your own work, why should anyone else?
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 10-19-2017, 07:26 PM
Mozart1220 Mozart1220 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 97
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteknightx View Post
I'm always amazed by bands that forget their job is to entertain people with music. Lots around here play too short sets, filled with too obscure 'b' sides. And quite a few of the 'support live music' local dudes seem to only mean it when they are playing, and are nowhere to be found if they aren't on stage.

As is the live music scene seems to be dying, we should all be going above and beyond to keep it alive.
The live music scene is dying because of DJ's, Karaoke, and jukeboxes all being cheaper. I agree with you about obscure songs for the most part, and in fact my last working band died a slow death BECAUSE the guy in charge refused to play ANYTHING people knew "They are dying for new music, they just don't know it because no one offers it".

Turned out he was wrong.

But there have to be at least SOME songs for the band or there is no reason to play. If you are in it solely for the money, be a DJ.

The last band I tried to be a part of was so anal about "danceable and popular for the masses" that I couldn't even slip "Demolition Man" by Manfred Mann in between two well known songs, as if people would throw things and walk out. Great song, easy to play and danceable. But NOOOOO...

Turned out the bitch (sorry, but she really was) playing keys refused to play anything she couldn't find sheet music for. She had no ability to learn on her own and improvise at all. NO extended solos from the guitar, no "medleys". EXACT songs, played EXACTLY as recorded.

BOORRRING.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:52 PM
eclipseownzu's Avatar
eclipseownzu eclipseownzu is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New London, CT
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
They don't know each other and that's not going to happen. You'd be lucky if that many people are saying anything at all about you, good or bad.
Not sure where you live, but in the small corner of the world I inhabit, this is 100% the case.

Most of our gigs are within 3 different scenes. Each has a couple of venues that host original music, and a couple of promoters that book them. The bands, promoters and crowds in each scene all know each other. We all go to each others shows and boost the scene as much as possible. We all promote any shows in the area and stand in front of the stage singing along. There are definitely gatekeepers, and they definitely know what is going on. Piss of one promoter or club owner, and believe me, the odds of getting booked anywhere between New York and Boston decrease dramatically. There was a case of a band member who assaulted a girl in the parking lot of one club about a year ago. He has not been seen or heard from since. That guy will never play another show at any of at least 10 different venues in a 100 sq. mile radius. So in my experience, Ari is 100% correct on this one.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:27 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,912
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Obviously it's bad to be an actual criminal-- I wouldn't file that under "pissing off" bookers. I don't know the type of thing Herstand was talking about, because he doesn't say. Not showing up for your gig? Getting in their face about money? Not being a super nice guy? In the pacific northwest or nationally it never hurt Everclear or the Cherry Poppin' Daddies or the Dandy Warhols for the frontmen to be thought of as kind of being dicks. Not that I advocate that. I've just never known of a commercially viable band that couldn't get booked because they made somebody mad at one venue.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:48 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 5,606
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
There are definitely gatekeepers, and they definitely know what is going on. Piss of one promoter or club owner, and believe me, the odds of getting booked anywhere between New York and Boston decrease dramatically.

Indeed,

In many cases, a single entity owns multiple clubs. You burn one, you burn them all. Changing the band name 'might' work once.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:51 PM
ConcertTom's Avatar
ConcertTom ConcertTom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 97
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

I don't think we're talking about Everclear, or Dandy Warhols. Big name acts (and other entertainment celebrities and power people) get a lot of leeway on bad behavior because there is a financial incentive to keep these people happy and bringing in audiences.

Small-time acts just don't have the sway to demand people kiss their asses no matter how horribly they treat people.

As far as society is concerned, unless you've proven that the benefits to your presence outweigh the downsides, no one cares what kind of tortured genius you are.
__________________
________________
hereliesman.com
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 10-20-2017, 04:07 PM
eclipseownzu's Avatar
eclipseownzu eclipseownzu is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New London, CT
Posts: 1,391
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConcertTom View Post
I don't think we're talking about Everclear, or Dandy Warhols. Big name acts (and other entertainment celebrities and power people) get a lot of leeway on bad behavior because there is a financial incentive to keep these people happy and bringing in audiences.

Small-time acts just don't have the sway to demand people kiss their asses no matter how horribly they treat people.

As far as society is concerned, unless you've proven that the benefits to your presence outweigh the downsides, no one cares what kind of tortured genius you are.
The club I promoted back in Sacramento booked Asking Alexandra back in like 2009-2010 when they were basically an unknown band in America. They didn't have nearly the draw we hoped for, and were drunken maniacs who destroyed the backstage area. I am assuming this was normal behavior for them, and it didn't seem to hurt them one bit. In fact I would say the fans liked their reputation and being unprofessional twits actually helped them in the long run.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:26 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 231
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

I agree with the bulk of the list. And the bulk of the comments, too, I suppose. I do think that like with any list or "rules", there has to be context, and as a result, exceptions...

The biggest response to the list has been the cargo shorts issue, and I'll admit that was the one that I instinctively reacted to as well. I think that my primary reply is "know your venue", and "know your audience". As a drummer, I need to be comfortable and what I wear has to accommodate that. So yes, I like to wear cargo shorts for gigs, where it makes sense. But when my rock band plays at the local casino, I wear khakis and a polo, or at least a nice button up shirt, something I would never wear to the local Eagles Club gigs...where my cargos and a fun t-shirt is very appropriate.

And the issue of shorts (on a drum forum) seems comical to me. If the person wearing them looks reasonable in them, it seems appropriate. I've seen many, many drummers wearing shorts over the years, at all levels of gigs, from bars to arena's. It's certainly the more physically active portion of most bands, by definition. And we're not out in front, for crying out loud... (Yes, I realize that "cargo shorts" wasn't meant to be just about the shorts themselves but image overall. I hope I'm addressing it in that fashion, as well.)

Interestingly, to me at least, is that the country band that I play in tends to try and dress better than the rock band, even when playing the same venues. With a couple of us in both bands. Many times a large chunk of the audience is the same, as well, so I don't know why we feel the need to do that, but there must be something to it.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 10-20-2017, 06:44 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,912
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

That's an example I was going to give, of why it's hard for me to get my head around the idea of bad behavior getting you universally banned from playing. This surf(?) band from Huntington Beach-- Throw Rag-- my band played before them at SXSW in '97. The singer was as drunk as you could be without actually being dead. The dude was naked by the second song, doing some extremely rude physical stuff-- I was told he threw up on stage the night before. They couldn't finish a single song, and they nearly started an actual riot. I expected the guy to be dead within the year, but they're still going, still touring this same routine 20 years later. For a venue they're an absolute liability in every sense except they probably bring in some people.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 10-21-2017, 02:20 PM
BertTheDrummer's Avatar
BertTheDrummer BertTheDrummer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 656
Default Re: 17 Things Local Bands Don't understand .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
Interestingly, to me at least, is that the country band that I play in tends to try and dress better than the rock band, even when playing the same venues. With a couple of us in both bands. Many times a large chunk of the audience is the same, as well, so I don't know why we feel the need to do that, but there must be something to it.
I've experienced similar things. A lot of the country bands I've played in, I'm in nice jeans and a nice button down, but rock bands I'm in shorts or jeans and a t-shirt. Like you, playing some of the exact same venues. I think a lot of that is like you said, the audience a lot of times is dressed pretty similarly.
__________________
"My music is the spiritual expression of what I am, My Faith, My Knowledge, My Being." - Coltrane
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com