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  #81  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:57 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Good talk. I never saw anyone so personally invested in defending unprofessional behavior.

Kids, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The engineer's behavior described in the original post is extremely unorthodox. Clearly the guy was a hack, and only knew how to do one thing, and was covering for his incompetence with bluster. It's worth it to always go to the best studio you can afford-- you'll get better results in less time and you'll learn how things are done correctly. They make it very easy.
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  #82  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:22 AM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Good talk. I never saw anyone so personally invested in defending unprofessional behavior.

Kids, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The engineer's behavior described in the original post is extremely unorthodox. Clearly the guy was a hack, and only knew how to do one thing, and was covering for his incompetence with bluster. It's worth it to always go to the best studio you can afford-- you'll get better results in less time and you'll learn how things are done correctly. They make it very easy.
While agree with your last paragraph, I just don't see it that way. They hired him to be producer AND engineer the record. Drummer didn't want to cut a hole in his reso so he took the head off. Maybe it would make you feel better if he asked the drummer to remove it himself. I just don't think its as big of a deal as you are making it.

If i recall correctly I agreed to disagree with you on page 1...and page 2...and probably page 3...you are the one that has continued to drag out this discussion over and over again tirelessly because you can't seem to just be ok with the fact I don't see it like you do...as if you have to prove your point and make snarky comments and try to write off my experiences, even though you know nothing about me or my credits or what i have done in my career. You can think I'm wrong...I really could care less, but move on. This thread will be a lot better off
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  #83  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:33 AM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Not interested, dude. Sorry you don't want me to comment.
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  #84  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:02 AM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

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Not interested, dude. Sorry you don't want me to comment.
Yea I just meant the back and forth with me... I feel like its bogging down the thread. Happy drumming to you. Appreciate the discussion.
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  #85  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:30 PM
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Erberderber Erberderber is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

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I really could care less
...that means you do care. One for Bermuda. ;-)
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  #86  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:55 PM
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Mongrel Mongrel is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Ever get to the point in a thread where you're like-"where is the heck is the OP?!"

Yea, we're there....
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  #87  
Old 04-07-2017, 01:40 PM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Ever get to the point in a thread where you're like-"where is the heck is the OP?!"
Often, my friend.

Often.
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  #88  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:00 PM
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TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosemarydrumco View Post
While agree with your last paragraph, I just don't see it that way. They hired him to be producer AND engineer the record. Drummer didn't want to cut a hole in his reso so he took the head off. Maybe it would make you feel better if he asked the drummer to remove it himself. I just don't think its as big of a deal as you are making it.

If i recall correctly I agreed to disagree with you on page 1...and page 2...and probably page 3...you are the one that has continued to drag out this discussion over and over again tirelessly because you can't seem to just be ok with the fact I don't see it like you do...as if you have to prove your point and make snarky comments and try to write off my experiences, even though you know nothing about me or my credits or what i have done in my career. You can think I'm wrong...I really could care less, but move on. This thread will be a lot better off
I think that's assuming too much about the OP's situation. They likely weren't in a high-end studio, but instead an independently-owned studio worked by part-time engineers who are not producers. The guy running the session clearly thought he knew best, and whether that was the case or not he treated the OP as if he were an idiot. I think that's a problem.

I believe there's a difference in simply being a hardass and being an unprofessional jerk, and from the OP's story it sounds like this engineer was the latter. I don't think anyone should submit to that kind of treatment.
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  #89  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:09 PM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

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Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
I think that's assuming too much about the OP's situation. They likely weren't in a high-end studio, but instead an independently-owned studio worked by part-time engineers who are not producers. The guy running the session clearly thought he knew best, and whether that was the case or not he treated the OP as if he were an idiot. I think that's a problem.

I believe there's a difference in simply being a hardass and being an unprofessional jerk, and from the OP's story it sounds like this engineer was the latter. I don't think anyone should submit to that kind of treatment.
Yes that's very possible this guy was as stated a hack and an idiot. I don't know the exact details really of the situation except what's been stated by the OP who had pretty specific ideas of how he wanted his drums to sound. He may be a decent engineer and the at the very least just a big jerk who didn't feel like putting up with a drummer that wanted to do it his way, even though they hired this guy to get the best sound. He may also just be a terrible engineer. Like I said, we don't really know...and lots of assumptions being made...but yes, I don't think him doing his job requires him to act like a child and throw a tantrum. You are right. He comes off unprofessional.

I Wasnt really defending him as much as just the concept that a producer and engineer have the right to be involved in how the drums are setup sonically and sound...as they are working to get the best possible result from the band. I don't think it's that big of a deal for an engineer to want a guy to tune out ring in his snare, or take off his reso head...but in this situation, combined with the engineer's attitude...it certainly makes him look bad...there is def a better approach to getting the result he wanted

I was also trying to be somewhat objective. I've been in more than a few situations where I was on the engineer side of things where some know it all with very little experience comes in thinking he's got it all figured out, and his drums don't sound right for the music, and you have to operate with a lot of tact to try and get the best result for the band...seems like this engineer didn't have very much of that lol...but at the same time, the fact that the OP said the engineer gave him an ultimatum about how he needed to tune his snare, suggests to me that maybe this drummer wasn't being very willing to adjust things in the studio, and possible being just as hard to work with. That seems like just as logical an assumption to me

Last edited by Rosemarydrumco; 04-07-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  #90  
Old 04-07-2017, 03:54 PM
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hawksmoor hawksmoor is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

I may have got this all wrong, but am I right in thinking the engineer took the OP's reso head off while the OP wasn't there and without asking him?
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  #91  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:23 PM
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drummer-russ drummer-russ is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

"The first time I went into a studio to record in 1967, the engineer was Frank Zappa with the assistance of Ian Underwood."

He says nonchalantly! Color me impressed!
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  #92  
Old 04-07-2017, 04:39 PM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

I just feel like part of being a pro drummer is understanding my own preferences for how I tune and tech my drums may have to change a little to serve the music depending on so many factors like being mic'Ed, or the room I am in, or the style of music, or whatever.

It seems the drummer was pretty unwilling to adjust to the suggestions the engineer thought sounded best in that setup and for their music.. They could have at least found some middle ground maybe. If he doesn't feel comfortable with the sound the engineer is getting or the way he is getting it or the final result then they probably hired the wrong guy for the job.
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  #93  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:24 PM
vindrums vindrums is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Recording is a very different animal then most normal performance situations. I highly recommend that any drummer going into a recording studio needs to check any sort of ego at the door. What may sound incredible to us in a live situation may not always translate on record. I'm not saying that this particular engineer wasn't a jerk, he may have been...but, in the end, deferring to the engineers knowledge and expertise is usually the best idea.

Every time I have recorded with a new engineer, I make it a point to first discuss the sound I would like to hear and ask their advice for how we can achieve it. Sometimes the answers are surprising. Sometimes it takes some experimenting. But in the end, you need to be willing to try and work together.

I feel that we become so overprotective of our methods for achieving a particular sound, that we dont always see the big picture. A great example is Gavin Harrison. There is a video floating around of him at a clinic where he demonstrates how he gets his drum sound. When he turned off all of the front of house effects his drums sounded like dead cardboard boxes...yet, he knew exactly how to best achieve the sound he ultimately wanted to hear with electronic manipulation.

Just some food for thought.
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  #94  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:26 PM
Rosemarydrumco Rosemarydrumco is offline
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Default Re: Bad recording experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by vindrums View Post
Recording is a very different animal then most normal performance situations. I highly recommend that any drummer going into a recording studio needs to check any sort of ego at the door. What may sound incredible to us in a live situation may not always translate on record. I'm not saying that this particular engineer wasn't a jerk, he may have been...but, in the end, deferring to the engineers knowledge and expertise is usually the best idea.

Every time I have recorded with a new engineer, I make it a point to first discuss the sound I would like to hear and ask their advice for how we can achieve it. Sometimes the answers are surprising. Sometimes it takes some experimenting. But in the end, you need to be willing to try and work together.

I feel that we become so overprotective of our methods for achieving a particular sound, that we dont always see the big picture. A great example is Gavin Harrison. There is a video floating around of him at a clinic where he demonstrates how he gets his drum sound. When he turned off all of the front of house effects his drums sounded like dead cardboard boxes...yet, he knew exactly how to best achieve the sound he ultimately wanted to hear with electronic manipulation.

Just some food for thought.
You sir win this thread. 🙌🙌🙌. Well said
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