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  #1  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:32 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Truth

Maybe I talk too much here.
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:50 AM
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Yeah but he had to talk to say that.
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2017, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Truth

And while I get the point, it's not entirely true. Sometimes you get better by listening. The mental aspect... the note choices you make, your phrasing, most of that is done without a drum in sight.
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:38 PM
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Aye, listening and watching also helps.

But if you don't practice.....

and you don't practice the right things.....
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Old 03-31-2017, 01:17 PM
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Ahh yes...reminds me of the quote by Faber College founder Emil Faber-

"KNOWLEGE IS GOOD"
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
Yeah but he had to talk to say that.
Man this made me laugh pretty hard.
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  #7  
Old 03-31-2017, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Sounds like typical Facebook philosophy.
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2017, 02:56 PM
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Fake news-everyone knows you only get better by playing better. You can play forever and still sound like stink-believe me I know hee,hee,hee.
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
You can play forever and still sound like stink
Somewhere in here is a nugget of truth. There is a big difference between playing the drums and working at the drums. Those who just play, and dont put the work in will never be great. To be great takes dedication, and work. Working on the right things is more important than just randomly beating on drums with sticks.
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  #10  
Old 03-31-2017, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Did Buddy Rich say this or is it a meme that was created because it sounds like the type of thing he'd say?
With my annoyed head on, whoever said it, it's a sound bite, a thrown out comment, possibly meant to admonish someone, just as likely meant to inspire someone. But because nowadays "we can", we'll all weigh in and criticise something that at its' essence is good advice. We all know that there isn't only one way to do something, and now that I've said that I'll be totally unsurprised if someone then comes out with an example of something that can only be done in one way, ergo I'm an idiot for saying what I said.
Maybe a more accurate and less contentious thing to say would have been something along the lines of if you learn, practice, listen, open your mind, apply what you've learnt then, take advice, go to a good teacher, and dedicate your life to your instrument.....at that point you'll only get better by playing. But everyone would have stopped listening halfway through and that point would never be made.

With my more reasonable head on, in the first pub band I joined over ten years ago, and to a lesser extent in the two bands I've played in subsequently, the learning curve that I was on as we started to gig was far steeper than any other drum related learning curve I'd been on. Suddenly "it mattered"! I learned what works and what doesn't work, what I can risk and when I can risk it. I learned on stage with greater relevance because suddenly there were stakes, how to drive the band, how to save it when things went wrong, how to persevere when I went wrong. Unlike a lesson, unlike a practice session, unlike rehearsal there are no second takes.

So while it isn't the only way to get better, it's one of the more effective ways of getting better. In my opinion.
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  #11  
Old 03-31-2017, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Truth

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Maybe I talk too much here.
Maybe I do too.

I should not be here while my window of opportunity closes for the day.
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  #12  
Old 03-31-2017, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Google is full of these including Buddy's
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2017, 05:50 PM
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Wow, who would have thought that was a controversial statement. Here's the context, it's from a MD interview in 1977:

Quote:
MD - Did you practice much?

BR - Well, I never really practiced because I never had the opportunity to practice. I've been working all mylife ... I've been playing drums all my life, and now, I'm too lazy to bother with it. I have other things that I have to do - practice my martial arts ... take care of my cars. I don't put too much emphasis on practice anyhow.

MD - Would you mind elaborating on that a bit.

BR -I think it's a fallacy that the harder you practice the better you get. You only get better by playing. You could sit around in a room, in a basement with a set of drums all day long and practice rudiments, and try to develop speed, but until you start playing with a band, you can't learn technique, you can't learn taste, you can't learn how to play with a band and for a band until you actually play. So, practice, particularly after you've attained a job, any kind of job, like playing with a four piece band, that's . . . on opportunity to develop. And practice, besides that, is boring. You know, I know teachers who tell their students to practice four hours a day, eight hours a day. If you can't accomplish what you want in an hour, you're not gonna get it in four days.
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:03 PM
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What I got from it was: there's a difference between practicing chops and actually playing MUSIC. Learning to play with other people, listening to what's going on, and responding in a sensitive and contextual way is what it's all about. Look at the plethora of YouTube sensations (not taking a single thing away from them btw), chops out the ass, but stylistically very similar, sterile, and to me, very boring. I like licks and chops as much as the next guy and I practice them too, but I get bored quickly if chops become the main focal point of a performance. I want to hear a living, breathing song, not a demonstration.

Edit: I wrote this before reading that excerpt from the MD interview...
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Wow, who would have thought that was a controversial statement. Here's the context, it's from a MD interview in 1977:
I totally agree with what BR is saying here. I feel exactly the same way.
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:07 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Truth

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Wow, who would have thought that was a controversial statement. Here's the context, it's from a MD interview in 1977:
And I've probably lived by this interview ever since it was published.
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Truth

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Maybe I talk too much here.
So, which is truth? What you said? Or what Buddy said? ;)
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Truth

I'd like to read the full interview sometime. A drumming idol of mine told me before a gig that you get so much sharper, so much faster by playing with people, and he's absolutely right.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Ahh yes...reminds me of the quote by Faber College founder Emil Faber-

"KNOWLEGE IS GOOD"


"WISDOM IS BETTER"
................................
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Truth

I agree with it, too. The idea is that what you do when playing music is just the only meaningful standard of your abilities as a drummeró and of the value of the things you practice. Assuming that the goal is to be a musician.

Re: his practice habits, if he's even being honest, I think he's a special case. Virtually everyone who can play practiced at least a few hours a day for at least a few years.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
"WISDOM IS BETTER"
................................
Unless you don't know anything about the subject..................................
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Truth

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
So, which is truth? What you said? Or what Buddy said? ;)
Both


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  #23  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:38 PM
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I'm sure that when Buudy was with bands, those bands would "practice" different parts of song, or the entire set or show, at some point. To me this is practice. He may not sit in the basement and work on chops or rudiments, but practice he did. His one interview where he discovered where he got his band members was great but even those guys/gals didn't just show up the first night and play the show. Maybe semantics, but he did practice.
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  #24  
Old 03-31-2017, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
"WISDOM IS BETTER"
................................
Unless you've seen Animal House....

Lol

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  #25  
Old 03-31-2017, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Truth

Bo you talk just the right amount. Plus what you have to say is useful to a lot of people. You are a pillar here, and even if the topic doesn't interest me, you help to get me interested by reading your take on it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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  #26  
Old 03-31-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Bo you talk just the right amount. Plus what you have to say is useful to a lot of people. You are a pillar here, and even if the topic doesn't interest me, you help to get me interested by reading your take on it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
You're probably right. But this whole internet connectivity has me a bit flummoxed. I used to find time to physically do things, now I'm playing on the phone, I go to work and play on my computer. I feel like a drug addict. I need to balance out and do what's right. It's been a while since I spent 2+ hours at the kit just playing. It's always these 30-minutes or less daily spurts.

So what Buddy says is truth for me. I'm also pointing it at my online presence - I gotta change this.
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:05 PM
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OK I think I see where you're coming from....you feel you talk too much instead of practicing? Nothing wrong there. Guilty as charged too! But if I'm not practicing, I'm doing something else that's important to me too. Yea, even drummerworld. So it's all good.

In this world of struggle, damn straight I try and wring as much positive-ness from the drums as I can. I refuse to feel bad for not practicing if I feel like doing something else instead. Right now I stripped and painted my Tele, and am installing Joe Barden pickups and bridge plate. I'm almost done spray can painting it and am totally happy with the color it is now. I just got me a bitchin new to me totally mint condition Custom Shop Vibro King Fender amp with the classic wildly adjustable 3 knob reverb and creamy warm tremolo. All tube of course. I haven't played my guitars seriously in years. It's good to do something else music besides drums. Life's good.

But yea, gear-wise, I'm good. It free's me up to concentrate on the other, more important things.
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  #28  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Unless you don't know anything about the subject..................................
Knowing enough to keep your mouth shut about that which you have no knowledge of = wisdom.

LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Unless you've seen Animal House....

Lol

I did see it, but I can't place the reference.

Don't see it here either: http://www.ifc.com/2015/05/10-import...ouse-taught-us
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:24 AM
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perfect practice makes perfect.
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:52 AM
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Dang Larry that's inspiring. I use to play alto sax-was pretty good. Gave my sax to a nephew who had an interest-he returned it years later. I remember opening up the case and putting it together and though I couldn't cognitively remember squat my fingers remembered the scale- that I played perfectly and astonished myself like WTH??. That brother moved in my Mom's house after she passed and I'm hoping my sax is up in her attic. I may not have the "wind" for it anymore though. I like to do other stuff too-like outdoor side projects-I always have a fall and spring garden, upkeep my fence and deck, I live on a slope to a pond so I like using stacking stones to terrace it and make a natural garden path-been working on it for years. It will be my lil Garden of Eden eventually if the deer don't eat it all.
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  #31  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I did see it, but I can't place the reference.

Don't see it here either: http://www.ifc.com/2015/05/10-import...ouse-taught-us
Opening scene...pan of the campus...close in on the statue of founder, Emil Faber....on the pedestal is carved these inspiring words:

knowledge is good

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  #32  
Old 04-01-2017, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: Truth

Now that you mention it, it seems familiar.
I haven't seen the movie for quite a while.

Knowledge is good unless you forget it - ha ha.
.

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  #33  
Old 04-01-2017, 04:59 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Wow, who would have thought that was a controversial statement. Here's the context, it's from a MD interview in 1977:
But that quote is, to be polite, nonsense. You can't play with a band until you practice the basics. So practice must have a purpose. And if you just play with a band and never work on your technique, you'll stagnate.

Surely the real 'truth' is that you need to practice _and_ play. But like all reasonable positions that's boring and it won't get a million replies or a nice argument started :-P
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:18 AM
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  #34  
Old 04-01-2017, 08:36 AM
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There could be an exception. In some cases you get better by stopping playing. For example, many years ago before most of you were born, I was in louder and louder bands and my technique and my grip and my dynamics were all ruined. Only by stopping, waiting for a while, and then starting fresh, could I get better.

It's still true though. He didn't say never stop.
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  #35  
Old 04-01-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
But that quote is, to be polite, nonsense. You can't play with a band until you practice the basics. So practice must have a purpose. And if you just play with a band and never work on your technique, you'll stagnate.

Surely the real 'truth' is that you need to practice _and_ play. But like all reasonable positions that's boring and it won't get a million replies or a nice argument started :-P
Who cares? Usually when somebody great tells me something about playing, I try to figure out what they're trying to tell me. I don't say "Screw you, jerk, the way you worded that, it's not literally 100% true in all circumstances!" That would be kind of juvenile, and I wouldn't learn anything.
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  #36  
Old 04-01-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
But that quote is, to be polite, nonsense. You can't play with a band until you practice the basics. So practice must have a purpose. And if you just play with a band and never work on your technique, you'll stagnate.

Surely the real 'truth' is that you need to practice _and_ play. But like all reasonable positions that's boring and it won't get a million replies or a nice argument started :-P
And I suppose you've already put in the necessary time and achieved the world renown status of the one being quoted?

I'm not against the idea of having your own opinions and being a free-thinker. However, in the entertainment industry, I've learned to keep my mouth shut and learn something from those who've managed to create a career in it for mostly all of their lives.

Even for myself, with a career outside of drumming as I approach my twilight years, my word means even less to the people who are still on the full-time drumming path, regardless of what I've already done.
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  #37  
Old 04-01-2017, 08:10 PM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
And I suppose you've already put in the necessary time and achieved the world renown status of the one being quoted?
So if I find a world-renowned person who believes practice is necessary, would you change your mind? Or be frozen in indecision, perhaps counting how many albums each of them sold so you could be sure which to believe?

For example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Colaiuta
I couldnít get enough of it. I was real interested in music notation and rudiments and technique whereas a lot of guys didnít dig that stuff. I learned real fast because I was always practicing. I would go into English class and sit in the back of the room with a Remo practice pad and practice double-stroke rolls and get kicked out of class.
Lots of famous drummers talk about how important it is to practice. Some don't. Lots of famous drummers talk about how important it is to use a metronome. Some don't. Figure out what works for you and do that.

I'm no great revelation as a drummer but spending my first three years doing snare and pad practicing, hunched over "Stick Control" at 2am and working on pillows with a metronome in my ear, that worked for me. Playing with a band later helped in different ways. Both were and are still necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
I'm not against the idea of having your own opinions and being a free-thinker. However, in the entertainment industry, I've learned to keep my mouth shut and learn something from those who've managed to create a career in it for mostly all of their lives.

Even for myself, with a career outside of drumming as I approach my twilight years, my word means even less to the people who are still on the full-time drumming path, regardless of what I've already done.
Well, I'm not in the entertainment industry, and Buddy Rich has been dead for decades, so neither of those condtions apply :-P

I always find it interesting when someone chooses to react angrily when I post something like "Maybe both sides of this argument have a point", and not to something like "Oh that's just dumb Facebook philosophy". I guess I just attract argument.
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2017, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Truth

I can tell you that reading about drumming, arguing on online forums and generally anything that is not actually drumming certainly doesn't make one a better player:

Regarding Buddy: I studied with Joe Morello as a teenager and he told me that Buddy practiced as a youth but used to say that he "never practiced". Joe used to say: "You don't come out of the womb with this stuff".

He also said that Buddy was a spectacular talent, whose raw natural ability was impressive from the outset.

The superhuman athletes and musicians tend to not be the best coaches because everything comes so easily to them. They don't realize it's not that way for most.
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Old 04-02-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
So if I find a world-renowned person who believes practice is necessary, would you change your mind? Or be frozen in indecision, perhaps counting how many albums each of them sold so you could be sure which to believe?

For example:


Lots of famous drummers talk about how important it is to practice. Some don't. Lots of famous drummers talk about how important it is to use a metronome. Some don't. Figure out what works for you and do that.

I'm no great revelation as a drummer but spending my first three years doing snare and pad practicing, hunched over "Stick Control" at 2am and working on pillows with a metronome in my ear, that worked for me. Playing with a band later helped in different ways. Both were and are still necessary.



Well, I'm not in the entertainment industry, and Buddy Rich has been dead for decades, so neither of those condtions apply :-P

I always find it interesting when someone chooses to react angrily when I post something like "Maybe both sides of this argument have a point", and not to something like "Oh that's just dumb Facebook philosophy". I guess I just attract argument.
I did not use the word dumb. Please don't misquote me. I used the word typical. And it was used tongue in cheek to make a point in how much faith people put in one quote especially on a site like Facebook. Misquoting people is sure to attract argument. Thank you.
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2017, 02:29 PM
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I thought you "played" the drums and then "practiced" music you play. He didn't just wing it every time he would play drums. Now in learning to "play" the drums you can "practice" rudiments-but apparently you don't have to. I note many of these threads go off on the strangest tangents. I bet Buddy, with his huge ego, would be real pleased we are still talking about him-then smirk what a bunch of putzes.
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