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  #1  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:06 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Before and After!

So after exploring this six-drum thing, and going through a few frustrations, I decided to go back to the basic four-drum kit.

I want to say that I really like the tonal variety and the options it gives me, but as I've been discovering over the last few days, my playing feels a little stilted, and definitely feels like I'm dealing with too many notes.

I realized that for the last ten years or so, maybe even longer, I've been limiting myself to four-drums only. I may have had an additional tom, making it a five-piece, but the additional tom always went away. On this kit, adding two more toms does to me what it does to any person confronted by too many drums: the desire to play them all to justify why they're there. The last couple of days I've been feeling like I can't just there and groove time without incorporating the toms in there.

So I think the only course to take is to go back to four drums only. My body had learned a certain dance to using the venerable four-piece, and having six-pieces seriously alters that dance for me. My time didn't feel as solid because my mind is on overdrive thinking of where to incorporate the toms. I'm hired because of my groove, so I thought I'd get back to that.

Today I spent some time re-configuring the kit, so the photos show before and after. In fact, even as a four-piece, having the two crash cymbals feels like too much too, so those can probably go away too. I also went to my new flat-based hardware, and definitely like the lightness of all that stuff. I'll be putting it through the paces hence forth.

I know Andy went to four, only to go back to more since his cover band calls for that stuff. I tried to go more, only to come back to what I do best. I guess I'll never be Tony Williams (not that I could).
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

I really like a four piece too-and yours looks Great-eh like Tony Tiger. So that's the 12 in tom paired with the 16? I think two toms covers it most of the time.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

But ....how can one do the classic fill in 'In the Air Tonight" with only that?
Just kidding, looks nice. The 17 hats really stand out there.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:25 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
I really like a four piece too-and yours looks Great-eh like Tony Tiger. So that's the 12 in tom paired with the 16? I think two toms covers it most of the time.
It's the traditional 13/16 set-up. I'm gonna go get some coated emperors for them tomorrow, and return to a more ringy jazz tuning. Or maybe I'll try some fiberskyn 3's if I can find all the sizes at one time.

The one thing I really like about one rack tom is the fact that I can lower it to a comfortable position in front of the snare. In this picture, it's still a little high. I could stand to drop it another inch or so.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:26 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
But ....how can one do the classic fill in 'In the Air Tonight" with only that?
Just kidding, looks nice. The 17 hats really stand out there.
I remember years ago I did a pickup gig and they played that tune and I had a 4-piece DW kit then. When it came time for the big fill, I just double-stopped the pattern on both toms in a dynamic fashion and everyone in the coffee shop went wild ;)
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

13-16 even better-I really like a 13 in-has a nice range. So now we await audio of this pairing-it's like wine tasting. I just picked up a Pearl Decade maple 13, 16, 24 shell pack and I'm digging it-really love the kick and 13 in tom.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

I used to have a big kit.

But then I went through a really long period of gigging a lot with a 5pc.

Ever since, a large kit just feels weird.

I still own a large kit, and I like the idea of a large kit for when appropriate.
But playing one feels weird and uncomfortable now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

I like a 2 up and 2 down set up, but I've only got 5 now. I've use a 5 pc or more since 1972. in the 80's I used 10 pc. lol. When ever I've tried four it was ok, but I really prefer a 5 pc. Bo your drums look really nice.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

One again, great looking kit Bo !

Four is enough for me as well, and it allows for a nice view out front.

Seeing a wall of toms and chrome clouds my judgement whereas a nice low-hanging single tom and an offset crash allows me to focus on the task at hand.

My studio buddy likes a lot of tom work, so I keep the 6 pcs for him and then a reliable and light 20-12-14 for the rest.

I love a second floor but I now find it is too much to haul around for the use I get out of it.

Singing bronze, the right snare and sturdy hardware is what I find comfort in at the moment. Then again a moment in GASland can turn out to only last for an evening.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:21 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I used to have a big kit.

But then I went through a really long period of gigging a lot with a 5pc.

Ever since, a large kit just feels weird.

I still own a large kit, and I like the idea of a large kit for when appropriate.
But playing one feels weird and uncomfortable now.
Better articulated! A big kit just feels weird and uncomfortable. The fact that the rack toms are up higher than a single rack tom off to the side makes switching back and forth even stranger, it changes my posture, and my internal dance. I should know better than to mess with what works for me, and I know, nobody has ever requested that I have more drums. So silly me.
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  #11  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:24 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
13-16 even better-I really like a 13 in-has a nice range. So now we await audio of this pairing-it's like wine tasting. I just picked up a Pearl Decade maple 13, 16, 24 shell pack and I'm digging it-really love the kick and 13 in tom.
I was shown those Decade Maples when they came out and my Pearl guy really wanted me to get a set for some reason. I may oblige him one day. Those Decades are solid drums. Good choice! What color did you get? I like that there's a possibility to get Tony Williams yellow with those!
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Yes I looked at those Tony Williams yellow ones too (they look awesome!)-but since "I'm not worthy" the better part of valor made me back off and settle for the Gloss deep red burst finish. I like the shiny red and it looks good with a Sonor amboina finish snare I have already. Those thin shells really sing-6 ply 5.4 mm. It's a great value for the 13, 16, 24 shell pack for $560-it comes with tom mount hardware and a kick pillow too.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:58 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Yes I looked at those Tony Williams yellow ones too (they look awesome!)-but since "I'm not worthy" the better part of valor made me back off and settle for the Gloss deep red burst finish. I like the shiny red and it looks good with a Sonor amboina finish snare I have already. Those thin shells really sing-6 ply 5.4 mm. It's a great value for the 13, 16, 24 shell pack for $560-it comes with tom mount hardware and a kick pillow too.
Yeah, I think these will be Pearl's sleeper hit. A lot of people see them and think they might be looking at an Export kit. I think once the word gets out they're gonna take off. Lots of pros love them too. Where else can you get a all-maple kit for that price?

I do like that red burst too. Very cool finish.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

I did the opposite , just got 14 and a 18 ..
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:11 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
I did the opposite , just got 14 and a 18 ..
That's cool. I like hearing good players play a lot of drums (Dave Weckl and Marco Minneman come to mind). I just don't think I sound good with a lot of things to hit.

Last edited by Matt Bo Eder; 03-21-2017 at 11:18 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Bo most of my kits are 4's usually with a side snare though for accents, rolls, flams and such . but i believe every drummer must honour the Drum Gods and have at least one kit with too many drums. ha.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

It is interesting as I have always played 3 mounted rack toms (8,10,12) and a suspended 14" floor and recently we have been refinishing our basement and I set it up as a standard 4 pc with 12" and 14"......moved my ride to the standard location and have been playing for a couple weeks like that "until the basement is ready"......and I have to say, as I get used to it, I like it more and more.

What I miss in additional voices I gain in ease of playing overall and comfort with ride patterns etc. Not that the ride over the floor was bad for years, but damn having it RIGHT there almost above my bass leg is so relaxing to play quick patterns for longer, no strain etc.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Quote:
adding two more toms does to me what it does to any person confronted by too many drums: the desire to play them all to justify why they're there. The last couple of days I've been feeling like I can't just there and groove time without incorporating the toms in there.

So I think the only course to take is to go back to four drums only. My body had learned a certain dance to using the venerable four-piece, and having six-pieces seriously alters that dance for me. My time didn't feel as solid because my mind is on overdrive thinking of where to incorporate the toms.
I guess this pretty much nails it what all of us, who play a 4-pc set, experienced. When I played bigger drumsets, I also always thought "You have to incorporate this tom, that cymbal, that cowbell into the song" ... which is sooner or later "every song".

I prefer the 1 up 1 down setup. It feels "natural" for me. It is ergonomic, compact but still allows me to play everything I want - even "In the Air Tonight", if I want to. And I do think that you learn to include more dynamics in your playing in order to create many different voices on such a small drumset. Ever since I heard Joe Morello playing his drums, I knew that you basically never ever need more than a 4-pc set. More drums might be convenient for some people, but IMO you don't need all those drums and double/triple bassdrums and myriad of cymbals that some people have at their set.

Oh, and you don't have to haul around a ton of equipment from gig to gig. That's almost the best part of it. ;-)
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

That's a real nice kit, MBE! Are you playing a 22" kick?

What about a one-up and two-down setup? What's your take on a double floor tom arrangement?
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post

The one thing I really like about one rack tom is the fact that I can lower it to a comfortable position in front of the snare. In this picture, it's still a little high. I could stand to drop it another inch or so.

I like to have the rack tom low as well. I like to hit it with a downward motion as opposed to a forward motion (if that makes sense). I have pretty much switched to a 20" kick, and I absolutely LOVE how low I can get the rack tom now! If I wanted, I could probably have it about as low as my snare, but I like it being a little above. Check out the picture:



In addition, if I was going for a vintage vibe with those Pearls with the flat stands and wrap, I'd get this reso head. I love the look of it:




Currently, I'm stripping away the rack tom and crash. These days, when I'm playing with the band, I play with a kick, snare, floor tom, hats, and one crash/ride. I'm loving the smaller set up!
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:01 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I like to have the rack tom low as well. I like to hit it with a downward motion as opposed to a forward motion (if that makes sense). I have pretty much switched to a 20" kick, and I absolutely LOVE how low I can get the rack tom now! If I wanted, I could probably have it about as low as my snare, but I like it being a little above. Check out the picture:



In addition, if I was going for a vintage vibe with those Pearls with the flat stands and wrap, I'd get this reso head. I love the look of it:




Currently, I'm stripping away the rack tom and crash. These days, when I'm playing with the band, I play with a kick, snare, floor tom, hats, and one crash/ride. I'm loving the smaller set up!
I have seen the retro Pearl decals and I'm debating doing that too. That would be cool. One more thing to add to my vibe list ;)
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:04 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by Stroker View Post
That's a real nice kit, MBE! Are you playing a 22" kick?

What about a one-up and two-down setup? What's your take on a double floor tom arrangement?
Yep - it's a 16x22. I was going to go 14x22 with this kit but the added 2 inches made sense. Ironically I think 18x22 is too deep and hard to fit on tiny bandstands.

Two floor toms is ok, but to haul around an additional sideways bass drum (mine is a 16x18) and not use it 90% of the time isn't real efficient for me.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

This reminds me, I don't think most people, even drummers, necessarily realize the amount of toms you have if they can't see your drum set, unless they are specifically focusing on figuring it out. I remember reading that Billy Cobham played a four-piece on the first Mahavishnu album. I couldn't believe it, until I listened to the album again and paid close attention. I do still think there may have been another tom involved on one or two parts, but it was clearly a single bass drum and the vast majority of tom sounds came from only two pitched drums.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
This reminds me, I don't think most people, even drummers, necessarily realize the amount of toms you have if they can't see your drum set, unless they are specifically focusing on figuring it out. I remember reading that Billy Cobham played a four-piece on the first Mahavishnu album. I couldn't believe it, until I listened to the album again and paid close attention. I do still think there may have been another tom involved on one or two parts, but it was clearly a single bass drum and the vast majority of tom sounds came from only two pitched drums.
When I was super young and impressionable, especially after staring at Ludwig's 1975 catalog too long and devouring KISS's Alive album, I thought all big touring bands had huge drum sets (remember, I was 8 at the time). Imagine my head exploding when I first saw Buddy Rich, or Led Zeppelin, or Paul McCartneys Wings back in 1976! I was devastated! Luckily it had a positive effect - I didn't really desire a big kit and knew I had to play really well on anything to be good.

Oh but my illusion was smashed!
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

For some reason I lately seem to be buying kits with more toms than I traditionally use with the somewhat optimistic view that I might use them, someday.

Most of the time I gig with one up, one down- I should probably save myself some money and just buy kits in that configuration, although I did just buy this today:



I should probably change my username here as I own twice the number of DW kits than I do Gretsch now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:14 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by gwetschdwummer View Post
For some reason I lately seem to be buying kits with more toms than I traditionally use with the somewhat optimistic view that I might use them, someday.

Most of the time I gig with one up, one down- I should probably save myself some money and just buy kits in that configuration, although I did just buy this today:



I should probably change my username here as I own twice the number of DW kits than I do Gretsch now.
That's really pretty! Post a video - I'd love to hear them!
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

It is a lovely kit- I'll post a video next time I am recording.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by gwetschdwummer View Post
I should probably change my username here as I own twice the number of DW kits than I do Gretsch now.
Gretsch vs. DW - interesting. New preference?
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

I think it depends entirely on what you are playing. If you are playing original music then you can decide how you want to play and use the drum setup that fits that style. For me, strictly a cover band, I use the setup I need to play the music.As Bo said he played the In The Air Tonight fill with just two toms and everyone loved it. I couldn't do that. The sound of the smaller toms is just too important to the song and I don't feel like I am cheating the song when I use the small toms. In the end, whatever works for you.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Yep - it's a 16x22. I was going to go 14x22 with this kit but the added 2 inches made sense. Ironically I think 18x22 is too deep and hard to fit on tiny bandstands.

Two floor toms is ok, but to haul around an additional sideways bass drum (mine is a 16x18) and not use it 90% of the time isn't real efficient for me.
Great stuff. I've never played a 16" depth kick before, but my next kit will surely have a 16.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by gwetschdwummer View Post
For some reason I lately seem to be buying kits with more toms than I traditionally use with the somewhat optimistic view that I might use them, someday.

Most of the time I gig with one up, one down- I should probably save myself some money and just buy kits in that configuration, although I did just buy this today:



I should probably change my username here as I own twice the number of DW kits than I do Gretsch now.
Whoa, beautiful kit, GD!
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:20 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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I did, but my micro journey on this absolutely picks up on so many experiences related here.

I've always moved fairly seamlessly between 4 piece & 6 piece (never a 2 up 5 piece - I just don't go there), but after so long doing this gig down to a 4 piece, the move back to a 6 felt awkward, almost "ungainly" by comparison.

The key here however is "gig". It only felt awkward in this gig, & only for a short while. If I was moving from 4 piece to 6 piece in my drum room, I wouldn't think about it for a second. The approach to the gig itself is influenced more by muscle memory than you'd think, & that demands a little adjustment time just as any change does.

After one gig & a few rehearsals, I'm now totally back on song, & I'm convinced the move was the right choice. My bandmates certainly do too.

Here's a clip I posted here last week of my first gig back using the 6 piece. On listening back to the full video footage, I was surprised by just how much I now use the range of toms, even during standard rock & roll stuff. My bandmates notice & appreciate the extra flavours / cheese too, so all is good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgmJ...ature=youtu.be

Even in this very short clip, I'm using the tom range 3 times.
I may be at a physical limitation too. Andy can switch between 4 and 6 easily, but I'm not the same physical height. When I'm at a 4, the rack tom is much lower and comfortable. As soon as I do two-up, both toms are much higher (even though I can still perform that way). It's just that little bit of uncomfortable-ness due to being only 5' 1".

That and the fact I grew up with the Buddy Rich mantra that a 4-piece is just the "perfect" set of drums, you can see my train of thought.

And an update: I took away the two crash cymbals, put my non-ported BD reso head back on, and am picking up some coated Ambassadors later today. Maybe I'm just at that age where experimentation is done and I just shut up and play now?
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:24 PM
Matt Bo Eder
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Great stuff. I've never played a 16" depth kick before, but my next kit will surely have a 16.
TBH, I like the look. Some people will say there is a true sonic difference but those are the same people who would cut a hole in the bass drum and stick a pillow in there. A 16x22 gives the same look as a 14x20 (another favorite size), and is still easy to get through a car door ;)
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwetschdwummer View Post
For some reason I lately seem to be buying kits with more toms than I traditionally use with the somewhat optimistic view that I might use them, someday.

Most of the time I gig with one up, one down- I should probably save myself some money and just buy kits in that configuration, although I did just buy this today:



I should probably change my username here as I own twice the number of DW kits than I do Gretsch now.
Yes but since DW owns some rights to Gretsch you are keeping it in the family.
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2017, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
I may be at a physical limitation too. Andy can switch between 4 and 6 easily, but I'm not the same physical height. When I'm at a 4, the rack tom is much lower and comfortable. As soon as I do two-up, both toms are much higher (even though I can still perform that way). It's just that little bit of uncomfortable-ness due to being only 5' 1".

That and the fact I grew up with the Buddy Rich mantra that a 4-piece is just the "perfect" set of drums, you can see my train of thought.

And an update: I took away the two crash cymbals, put my non-ported BD reso head back on, and am picking up some coated Ambassadors later today. Maybe I'm just at that age where experimentation is done and I just shut up and play now?
You'll be playing a 15 piece Neil Peart setup by this time next month. :)
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:43 AM
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You'll be playing a 15 piece Neil Peart setup by this time next month. :)
Be wary if I start touting the usefulness of the 23" bass drum ;)
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  #37  
Old 03-23-2017, 03:48 AM
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Stroker Stroker is offline
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
TBH, I like the look. Some people will say there is a true sonic difference but those are the same people who would cut a hole in the bass drum and stick a pillow in there. A 16x22 gives the same look as a 14x20 (another favorite size), and is still easy to get through a car door ;)
I've been watching as many Youtube videos on different kits as I can, paying close attention to kick sizes, and it's going to be an easy sell for me choosing a 16x22! Always great chatting with you and getting your insight on topics such as this, MBE!
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:44 AM
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BenjaminCamelot BenjaminCamelot is offline
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by Jimi Rashidi View Post
You'll be playing a 15 piece Neil Peart setup by this time next month. :)
I had a good laugh at that but is he going to be playing the Moving Pictures kit or his R30 kit?
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:01 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by BenjaminCamelot View Post
I had a good laugh at that but is he going to be playing the Moving Pictures kit or his R30 kit?
As a true Rush fan, it would have to be the Slingerland kit made famous on A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres ;)

I played Slingerland back then too, thanks to mom and dad.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:04 AM
Matt Bo Eder
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Default Re: Before and After!

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Originally Posted by Stroker View Post
I've been watching as many Youtube videos on different kits as I can, paying close attention to kick sizes, and it's going to be an easy sell for me choosing a 16x22! Always great chatting with you and getting your insight on topics such as this, MBE!
You're welcome. I'm always trying to be a bit helpful. I do know that my wide open 16x22 (with PS3's on both sides) can literally keep up with the 14x24 crowd. Not sure if it's the size or this particular Pearl Reference Pure bass drum, but I like a big sound - it's easier for me to tone down my technique than it is to deal with muffling, and then unmuffling bass drums.

I do consider it a shame when they started making 18" deep bass drums, and then 20" (that was crazy). The size is just too wide and you don't gain much. Whereas the 16" gives you a bit more visual depth without looking silly.
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