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  #1  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:48 PM
Skydog6653 Skydog6653 is offline
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Default Proper way to list drum sizes

I've always gone by H x D. Lately, I've seen sellers listing D x H. This can cause problems! Is there a "correct" way?
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

I've always go by WxH or D (height or depth, in this case). Since, you measure area by LxWxH. That's how I see it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

When I was a young drummer, 40+ years ago, I ALWAYS saw depth x diameter. Now, we didn't have the internet, and the only places I saw sizes listed were the occasional drum company catalogs, but that's how I remember it.

I didn't see diameter listed first until years later. So, I always thought the standard was depth x diameter, but I don't know if that's right.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

I have always done it with the width first then the depth. The width is always bigger and we buy heads by the width. There is a part of me that likes the look of the larger number first. I know that isn't scientific, but I've always listed them that way. Also the widths are more standard than depths. Snares can be 5.5, 6.5 deep etc, toms 7 deep 8 deep 9 deep, but widths will always be standard like the head sizes.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

The standard is depth then diameter.

I think the standard is backwards. I don't use the standard because it confuses me and I refuse to participate. A drums diameter....is the most important measurement by a long shot.

If it were up to me, I would change the standard to what makes the most sense, diameter then depth. Who was put in charge of THAT decision? Someone with little common sense IMO.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Gruntersdad gave a good argument for listing the width first. In Europe, as far as I can tell, everybody lists diameter first, depth second. For as long as I can remember...
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

I just went to Gretsch, Tama, and Yamaha web sites. Gretsch does D x W, Tama and Yamaha list W xD. I'm guessing there is no standard based on those three. I would only suggest that if you are buying or ordering to make sure how the company lists theirs. DW Drums does D xW, and Pearl does W x D. So with all of that info I'm guessing there is no standard. Just be careful buying those 6.5 drum heads.
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  #8  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

I prefer Diameter x Depth. I just wish people would use a Ø symbol!! That would clear up confusion.

(Alt+0216)
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  #9  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Yeah, this is a mess. When you see an ad without pictures, you can't tell if a 8x10 is an 8" tom, 10" deep from the 80s, or a 10" tom 8" deep from today. At least one thing good about the more fashionable shallower toms of late is regardless of the combination, a 10x7 or 7x10 and 9x12 or 12x9 are without a doubt 10 and 12" toms respectively.

Maybe that's why Dave Weckl prefers square sizes! LOL!
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Add Mapex, Ludwig and Sonor to the W x D group according to their website.
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

DepthXdiameter more a convention of manufactures and then the diameterXdepth the common man convention. I note Amazon uses the common man convention. So we need to start a #hashtag to change it lol. Oh, this is hilarious, look what I found-someone felt so strongly they wrote an essay on Wikipedia- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ing_drum_sizes
Ok fess up-who on here did it? You forgot peer-reviewed references hee,hee.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armor of Light View Post
I prefer Diameter x Depth. I just wish people would use a Ø symbol!! That would clear up confusion.

(Alt+0216)
That symbol is the phi symbol right? (phi = the golden ratio) I'm not understanding how it relates to drum sizes.

Edit: I found out that your symbol means diameter. It really resembles the symbol for phi, sorry.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Didn't really discover this difference until I started drumming.

My initial perception was that diameter x depth was our European way and Americans did it the other way around. Obviously people bring their habits with them wherever they move and magazines print adds they way they are told so it's a bit confusing now.

Happily, these days most of us don't go past square on the depth, so you mostly know.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
My initial perception was that diameter x depth was our European way and Americans did it the other way around.
This is how I always thought it came about.
It also seems more appropriate to use the diameter first.

If I mention a 12" tom I shouldn't have to use verbose descriptions to differentiate it from a 12" deep tom.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2017, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

In Britain it was always Dia x Depth. I think the US is different. Dia x Depth makes more sense to me as its the size of the head, so you say it first. If someone asks you what size BD you play you dont quote the depth. I play a 20", I also play a 14" snare. The depth is another issue, unless you say I play a 6.5" snare.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Regardless of who does what...and in the best accent of Arthur Spooner I can muster:

I WANT DIAMETER OF SHELL BY DEPTH OF SHELL!!!

Stop this insanity of depth x diameter NOW!

I believe I have some nomenclature somewhere from Rogers listing dia. X depth in the 60s... I will try and dig it out.

NOPE...strike that... Rogers used h x d (depth x dia.) too.

I swear I don't recall snare drums listed other than dia. X depth though. But being wrong has become pretty regular for me.
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

It just makes sense to go with WxH. I don't think there's any good argument for using HxW.
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  #18  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Regardless of who does what...and in the best accent of Arthur Spooner I can muster:

I WANT DIAMETER OF SHELL BY DEPTH OF SHELL!!!

Stop this insanity of depth x diameter NOW!

I believe I have some nomenclature somewhere from Rogers listing dia. X depth in the 60s... I will try and dig it out.

NOPE...strike that... Rogers used h x d (depth x dia.) too.

I swear I don't recall snare drums listed other than dia. X depth though. But being wrong has become pretty regular for me.
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/en-us/lu...s/black-beauty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DW-Drum-Work...4AAOSwo4pYeTK3

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  #19  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
It just makes sense to go with WxH. I don't think there's any good argument for using HxW.
Neither way makes more or less sense. It would be nice to have a standard convention.
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  #20  
Old 03-17-2017, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Skydog6653 View Post
Neither way makes more or less sense. It would be nice to have a standard convention.
Yes, one makes more sense in application. If I'm describing my kit's sizes in one number I'm going to say it's a 24, 13, 16, 18, not a 16, 8, 14, 14. A standard would be nice, and there's no argument for going with depth first as it tells you far less about the immediate, practical implementation of the drum than using the diameter.
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  #21  
Old 03-17-2017, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Depth × Diameter is the standard way to do it.
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2017, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Depth × Diameter is the standard way to do it.
Base on what? I just posted 6 or 7 manufacturers who do it both ways.
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

All I know is, when I was playing the drums in the 50's and 60's the standard was Depth (height) X Diameter.

I came back to playing in 2013 and it was all messed up. I want to know who screwed it up?


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  #24  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
.
I came back to playing in 2013 and it was all messed up. I want to know who screwed it up?
.
We did. :-)




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  #25  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Believe it or not, there is actually a Wikipedia page on this topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ing_drum_sizes
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  #26  
Old 03-17-2017, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

I just look at the bigger number and know it's the diameter. Other than Sonor back in the 80's, I can't think of any major manufacturer who has made drums deeper than their diameter. Diameter x depth, depth x diameter, doesn't really matter. Just look for the bigger number and 99% of the time you know its the diameter (octobans, deccabons, rocket toms, rata toms excluded).
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Superman View Post
Believe it or not, there is actually a Wikipedia page on this topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...ing_drum_sizes
Interesting. Listed as an essay. I'd like to see more on the history, because like Hollywood Jim, everything I used to see was depth x diameter. It never made any sense to me, but that's how it was. Makes me wonder about why they ever did it that way.
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Next thing you know, the industry will start selling automobile tires backward as well. A nice set of MichellinSize: 225/60R18 will be sold as 60R18/225. That should be fun and make about as much sense..
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
We did. :-)
.
Am I going to be driving on the left side of the road any time soon?


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Old 03-17-2017, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Next thing you know, the industry will start selling automobile tires bakward as well. A nice set of MichellinSize: 225/60R18 will be sold as 60R18/225. That should be fun and make about as much sense..
I'm actually surprised that never caught on. When I was in high school, we'd say we were rolling on 60s or 50s, or 50 and 60 series tires, so 60R18/225 would have made sense. Now, we're only concerned about Rim diameter so starting with 18 would seem to make more sense. You'd at least know if I rolled up in a Corolla with 20s on it, the 225 part would at least tell you they are as thick as rubber bands. The 60 piece gets totally lost in the 2xx part. Before you know it, our drum sizes will be 10x16x8x10x8x7 (10" diameter, 1.6mm hoops, 8" deep, 10 lug, 8ply 7mm thick) and we'll be debating the standard for that mess!
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by TheElectricCompany View Post
If I'm describing my kit's sizes in one number I'm going to say it's a 24, 13, 16, 18, not a 16, 8, 14, 14.
Exactly.
20202020202020
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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I'm actually surprised that never caught on. When I was in high school, we'd say we were rolling on 60s or 50s, or 50 and 60 series tires, so 60R18/225 would have made sense. Now, we're only concerned about Rim diameter so starting with 18 would seem to make more sense. You'd at least know if I rolled up in a Corolla with 20s on it, the 225 part would at least tell you they are as thick as rubber bands. The 60 piece gets totally lost in the 2xx part. Before you know it, our drum sizes will be 10x16x8x10x8x7 (10" diameter, 1.6mm hoops, 8" deep, 10 lug, 8ply 7mm thick) and we'll be debating the standard for that mess!
Well I won't guess your age but this sounds like a time when lower profile tires were newish and faddish as well. If you were on 70 profile tires you weren't cool, so saying that you were on 60's etc. was a cool thing. Also at that time almost all cars had 14 inch diameter tires so saying what the diameter really wasn't necessary.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Quote:
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Am I going to be driving on the left side of the road any time soon?


.
Nah.

List of countries with left hand traffic in Europe

Cyprus
Guernsey (Crown dependency of the United Kingdom)
Ireland
Isle of Man (Crown dependency of the United Kingdom)
Jersey (Crown dependency of the United Kingdom)
Malta
United Kingdom
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So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

When I list drums, I list only the diameter in the summary (10/12/16/22). In the I put the depth in the details. Since they already have the diameter, they are able to discern the ordering of the detailed measurements.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

At a risk of divulging my age, when I was in high school, the gear heads rode on Mickey Thompson N50's!
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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At a risk of divulging my age, when I was in high school, the gear heads rode on Mickey Thompson N50's!
Different kind of gear head!! lol
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

Diameter first is the proper way.
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  #38  
Old 03-18-2017, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

DiamxDepth is the obvious intuitive relationship when sizing up drums and inferring what they will sound like, proper or not. Premier and Sonor had it right in their catalogs all along, but it took them so long to embrace square tension rods. Weird.

BTW, why does Zildjian and Sabian ink metric markings on cymbals when I've never heard a drummer in any conversation, drum forum or article refer to sizes other than in inches. After many years, I've never seen this usage.

...
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

The 'American' standard is depth then diameter. Not the rest of the world. Same thing happens with metric weights, length, volume, temperature, dates, etc.

By comparison, tyres are always named size first, then depth. You don't say a car has 205 profile rims, you'd say it has 17" rims, then add details if needed. Same should apply for drums, and it does in most of the world.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: Proper way to list drum sizes

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Originally Posted by Skydog6653 View Post
Neither way makes more or less sense.
"I'd like to buy a 22" head for my 14" deep bass drum please."

Seems most nonsensical to me mate. I'd argue one way makes far more sense than the other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydog6653 View Post
It would be nice to have a standard convention.
We always did out here in the colonies. I never knew depth x diam. existed until I joined an international drum forum and realised great swathes of the world are backwards. :-)
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