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  #81  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by steadypocket View Post
Somewhere north of the U.S./Canadian border, there is a former member of this forum grinning ear to ear.
Or not. Depends if anybody has called the whambulance for him lately.
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  #82  
Old 03-15-2017, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Just wait until you get into repair costs for that sort of thing... [snip]
Top, top post. That's why I like this forum - didn't read this thread expecting to discuss bassoons and oboes, but I'm loving the insight.
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  #83  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Just wait until you get into repair costs for that sort of thing.

I work with a lot of different instruments. A basic bassoon (a basic one) will set you back at least 2,000. A decent student oboe about 1,000 (if it's priced low). Clarinets and saxophones are generally a lot cheaper for decent student instruments, as are violins (under 500).

What it demonstrates to me is the cost reduction that we get as consumers from mass production. If an instrument has the demand for mass production, the price saving is enormous. Think of how many drummers you know (ten, fifteen in my case outside of here) and think of how many oboists you know (two - and I'm 'in those circles') and it really demonstrates directly how the popularity of an instrument dictates the price.

You can buy inexpensive plastic clarinets and you can buy inexpensive, Chinese-made saxophones that are mass-produced and will function well enough. The difference is that in non-'Rock' circles of music, you will generally only ever buy two instruments. The one you start on and one in five-ten years when you get a lot better, that will be your instrument 'for life'. That second instrument is an investment.

Getting into repair, for a basic clarinet service and repair (check the joints, re-pad, etc.) you're talking around 100-250 and the clarinet is one of the easier instruments to fix. Oboe? The sky is the limit - and they're fragile. Oboe reeds start at about 12 a go and go up to about 50 or 112 for synthetic.

So when you actually sit back and think about it, 10K for a kit is a lot of money but it's nothing compared to what you'd pay for a professional bassoon or double bass. Want a Selmer Mk. VI Tenor Saxophone? 5,000 for one that needs work.

For a professional-quality full set of drums, including cymbals and hardware, the cost is unbelievably inexpensive compared to some other instruments and we have mass manufacturing to thank for that.
Really interesting people on this forum. I love it. Thanks for putting things in context.
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  #84  
Old 03-15-2017, 04:12 AM
Push pull stroke Push pull stroke is offline
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

I just wish somebody had been clear with us in band class about which instruments had which pluses and minuses.

"Drums--you'll be moving drums til you're sick of it, but they're the most fun to play. People will make jokes about you being dumb, but you'll have the best rhythm"

"Oboe--you'll spend hours making reeds, and it's hard to find paying gigs. Oboes are easy to move, though."

"Bassoon--there's just no upside. Expensive, somewhat bulky to move, and gigs are nonexistent. Give up now."

"Trumpet--easy to move, but gigs aren't that common, and you will become more of a narcissist."

Etc.
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  #85  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
DW and others are producing drums not unlike the collectors plates you see on late night sales channels.
Look ,we have a limited number run of Elvis douche bag collector plates and when they run out ,that's it!
So invest your 401K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
In 1986 I bought an expensive set of Sonors. I used all my money that I saved for years. Every bit of money I had. I blew it all on a set of drums. I still play them.
$2300 for seven drums, and all the heavy duty hardware was included.
The list price was over $8000.
The value of $2300 from then to today, adjusting only for inflation is $6400.
That's a 10,12,13,14,16,22, snare and three cymbal stands, hihat stand and bass drum pedal with two tom stands.

$8000 in 1986 is worth $17,725.47.
Perfectly in line with the outrageous DW list price.

List price means absolutely nothing.



Which is how I judge the worth of a drum kit/gear. If Im buying a kit/gear I need to determine if I can sell it at, or more than what I paid for it (not adjusting for inflation) in the future.

Used is where you can win most of the time with this tactic if you keep the stuff up to snuff, in good shape. New, its got to be something special, or perceived as going to be- rare in the future.

Im just renting everything I own is how I look at it. So if I have a snare drum I paid $500 and 6 years later sell it for $450, that's not a bad rental fee (2.28 cents per day).


Will the said DW's in the future be able to command $10K? Doubtful, as more and more DW's are cranked out each year.
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  #86  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

The DW used market has bee at 50% of original for years, but that's based on the standard collectors or performance series. A tricked out 23k kit may bring 23k at a later date, or 1k. Tough to tell. I remember Pearts Time Machine was priced at 25k. Now that he's retired on a high note, in another 10 years...who knows..it may be worth 50k or 1k. I don't think you can lose with a standard DW, unless they did something obnoxious. Can't hardly lose with most quality high-end drums these days, until we go back to the super deep toms or something crazy, making today's drums undesirable.
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  #87  
Old 03-15-2017, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

Oh! That's the other thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post. Instruments like bassoons and oboes tend to hold their value second-hand. New instruments are not significantly more expensive than old instruments which means that there is no way of getting a 'cheap' one...

And thanks guys.
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  #88  
Old 03-15-2017, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I'm curious to see how much Neil Peart pays for his DW kits?
Ummm.... Zero! Just my guess since he's a full endorser.
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  #89  
Old 03-16-2017, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
I just wish somebody had been clear with us in band class about which instruments had which pluses and minuses.

"Drums--you'll be moving drums til you're sick of it, but they're the most fun to play. People will make jokes about you being dumb, but you'll have the best rhythm"

"Oboe--you'll spend hours making reeds, and it's hard to find paying gigs. Oboes are easy to move, though."

"Bassoon--there's just no upside. Expensive, somewhat bulky to move, and gigs are nonexistent. Give up now."

"Trumpet--easy to move, but gigs aren't that common, and you will become more of a narcissist."

Etc.
Piccolo. I always make the joke about wishing I played the piccolo whenever I'm hauling gear around...

What's the difference between a trombonist and a horse? The horse might be pulling a regular gig...
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  #90  
Old 03-16-2017, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Defender View Post
Ummm.... Zero! Just my guess since he's a full endorser.
Oh, smart answer. Ok, let me re-phrase. I wonder how much his kit is worth if one was to pay for it. I always forget about these bums always getting endorsements.
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  #91  
Old 03-16-2017, 01:35 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
I'll post a photo next time I get over to the store.
It's a DW exotic of some sorts.
I am assuming its the DW Collector's Exotic Stradivarius 45th Anniversary. (After posting I saw the picture posted by the OP)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...bDBBoCOATw_wcB
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  #92  
Old 03-16-2017, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Moejo View Post
I am assuming its the DW Collector's Exotic Stradivarius 45th Anniversary. (After posting I saw the picture posted by the OP)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...bDBBoCOATw_wcB
Nope ,some kind of maple veneer.
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  #93  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

i think DW has a good strategy: build some of the best drums and hardware in the world and then give nice sets to all the great drummers. the rest of us pay full price to belong to the DW club. a Steinway concert grand piano goes for 80K. i guess 10K for a drum kit is peanuts to the lucky few.
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  #94  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:10 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
Oh, smart answer. Ok, let me re-phrase. I wonder how much his kit is worth if one was to pay for it. I always forget about these bums always getting endorsements.
About $50,000 to $80,000 if you got every detail of Neil's kit
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  #95  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Piccolo. I always make the joke about wishing I played the piccolo whenever I'm hauling gear around...

What's the difference between a trombonist and a horse? The horse might be pulling a regular gig...
Piccolo destroys your hearing. Flute is better, but there's no gigs.
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  #96  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
Piccolo destroys your hearing. Flute is better, but there's no gigs.
Band camp?

silly 20 char rule
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  #97  
Old 03-16-2017, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Push pull stroke View Post
Piccolo destroys your hearing. Flute is better, but there's no gigs.
Recorded some material with a flautist the other week that I'm in the process of editing into an album. There are gigs!

Actually, the most important thing I learned from him (professional player of 40+ years) is how important branding yourself is. He passed on an anecdote about how most of the professional musicians that he'd met with significant album sales had studied or understood graphic design...
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  #98  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Recorded some material with a flautist the other week that I'm in the process of editing into an album. There are gigs!

Actually, the most important thing I learned from him (professional player of 40+ years) is how important branding yourself is. He passed on an anecdote about how most of the professional musicians that he'd met with significant album sales had studied or understood graphic design...
Yes, I spent tens of thousands of dollars on a music degree and thousands of hours practicing so I could learn graphic design. No thanks. This profession sucks, and I'm glad I figured that out before I wasted any more years of my life trying to make a living at it.
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  #99  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

Having personally owned a DW, I can safely say they are one of the best manufactured and made ply kits on the market. They have great attention to detail and everything is very neatly done. However I hugely disagree that they are the best sounding ply kits on the market. There is a reason I sold mine, they are mid line at best. Your paying a premium for american labour and great craftsmanship, not great sound.
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  #100  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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I hugely disagree that they are the best sounding ply kits on the market. There is a reason I sold mine, they are mid line at best. Your paying a premium for american labour and great craftsmanship, not great sound.
Wow, that's quite a claim!

I'm not saying you're wrong though.
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  #101  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Yes, I spent tens of thousands of dollars on a music degree and thousands of hours practicing so I could learn graphic design. No thanks. This profession sucks, and I'm glad I figured that out before I wasted any more years of my life trying to make a living at it.
Well, the point I'm making is that branding is important...
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  #102  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Well, the point I'm making is that branding is important...
Of course it is otherwise how would one know how to recognise who to to tear down.
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  #103  
Old 03-16-2017, 10:54 PM
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Of course it is otherwise how would one know how to recognise who to to tear down.
Exactly! How else would I know who to throw the rotten tomatoes at?
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  #104  
Old 03-16-2017, 11:06 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Moejo View Post
I am assuming its the DW Collector's Exotic Stradivarius 45th Anniversary. (After posting I saw the picture posted by the OP)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...bDBBoCOATw_wcB
That really is much cheaper than I expected that kit to be.

Wish they made them in difference finishes; don't really like the fade.
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  #105  
Old 03-16-2017, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by Defender View Post
Ummm.... Zero! Just my guess since he's a full endorser.
Peart is a big deal and all and certainly added to the advertising roster for DW, but would DW give him the drums free of charge? I'd actually like to hear from forum members who are endorsers. Can a big enough name pay zero for a kit?
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  #106  
Old 03-17-2017, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

Quality of sound is relevant to the listener. I've heard some guitar and drums tones that I hated beyond imagine. But the guy playing it liked it, it's what he was happy with. So who is to say these drums sound better than those?

American made instruments (not just drum or DW specifically) are more expensive because of the manufacturing costs and restrictions in place by the EPA. You can buy a Black Beauty snare made in the USA by Ludwig for $600, or you can by the EXACT SAME drum made in Asia for $2-$400. That's why Ludwig started outsourcing Black on Brass shells to China a few years back. So everyone could have that type of snare without it being too expensive.

I have a drum student that uses Paiste PST5 Cymbals. He's used them for years, because he likes the sound. They are student model cymbals, and to my hears don't sound great.
He wants a new crash, and I offered to get him a nice one at a low price through a deal I have. He said no.
I suggested getting something a little nicer, a PST8 or Alpha, or even save a little extra and get a nice pro quality used cymbal.
NOPE! He is dead set on getting a new PST5 because he likes the sound.

See the point I'm getting at?

Price has nothing to do with it. It's whats right for your ears.
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  #107  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
Nope ,some kind of maple veneer.
Nope. Figured sycamore with an inlay. FWIW DW doesn't veneer their drums (except wraps obviously). It's not a DW six ply shell with an exotic veneer. The exotic wood is the outer ply.

Last edited by The SunDog; 03-17-2017 at 04:42 AM.
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  #108  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Exactly! How else would I know who to throw the rotten tomatoes at?
May i suggest a Rotten Tomato Meter! Just type in the Brand Name and simply allocate how many Tomatoes anyone would like to throw at said Brand . No Mess No Fuss.
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  #109  
Old 03-17-2017, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by incrementalg View Post
Peart is a big deal and all and certainly added to the advertising roster for DW, but would DW give him the drums free of charge? I'd actually like to hear from forum members who are endorsers. Can a big enough name pay zero for a kit?
I'd imagine that for those big kits for tours, like NPs, or Nicko McBrain's Sonor kit, they're run as a production cost, in the same way that lights and PA are.

Though Nicko's Premier was the same kit repainted for different tours as I recall.
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  #110  
Old 03-17-2017, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: DW for $23K?

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Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
I'd imagine that for those big kits for tours, like NPs, or Nicko McBrain's Sonor kit, they're run as a production cost, in the same way that lights and PA are.

Though Nicko's Premier was the same kit repainted for different tours as I recall.
I agree with this. Plus, what we all have to keep in mind is that although they may spend thousands on their drums, it's probably just a drop in the bucket compared to what they make on tour. Also, if they wanted to, they could always sell their drums at a premium if they want because that specific set was used on XYZ tour. I see beat-to-crap, semi-famous drum sets fetching fair prices every once in a while.
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