DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-07-2017, 03:59 AM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Should I complete this stave shell?

Hi,

I've got a couple stave shells I've been waiting to shave down and promised myself I'd set up a better method than my previous router table jig, so I built a simple lathe for it. The first shell is a really thick,heavy red oak 7x14 (initially around an inch thick). I got a bit overzealous on the rounding and managed to shave off way too much. It now has an OD of about 13&5/8". It's also not even consistent from side to side, and is about 13&3/4" diameter on the other side. So all around the perimeter, I'm either a sixteenth or an eighth short of where the head should land depending on what side you're on.

Does anybody have any ideas on what one might expect from that before I waste more time on it? It seems like a double 45 bearing edge on a correctly sized shell (13&7/8"OD) would have a similar effect to a single 45 on something slightly smaller if the peak non-beveled part was about the same thickness. Is 13&5/8 pushing it too far, or should I go ahead and finish it? If I should, what will the eighth inch difference between the two sides do to it (I can always shave the larger side down to 13&5/8")?

Much thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-07-2017, 07:26 AM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,861
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

The out of round element isn't great, & nor is the undersize element. The two together are quite a way short of ideal. Depending on the source wood, the likelihood is, it will shrink a little further, & being of uneven thickness, the shrink rate will vary around the shell further contributing to your woes. As oak is fairly inexpensive, I'd opt for the firewood route. Even if you do finish it, with your new turning facility, you're always going to be disappointed in it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-2017, 07:50 AM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Thanks keep it simple!

To be clear, the shell actually is perfectly round, it's just too small in diameter. It's not however a perfect cylinder, as the diameter of one side is about an eighth inch smaller than the other, but it wouldn't be difficult to shave the larger side down until it was even. The inside of the shell hasn't yet been milled.

George
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-07-2017, 03:10 PM
Morrisman's Avatar
Morrisman Morrisman is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: South Australia
Posts: 1,432
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

I have a jarrah stave snare that's at least a half inch undersize. The bearing edge curves in to a peak mid shell. No issues with this drum sound wise. The tube lugs are on 6mm spacers to line up with the rims. The builder did it this way so the heads would have 'breathing space' on the outside of the shell.

I say finish the drum but don't lacquer/polish it yet - play it and see what you think. Worse case would be to build a new shell and transfer the hardware across. Best case - it might sound great!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-07-2017, 03:20 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,511
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Turn it down even more to make a 12 or 13 inch tom. That would also make it a thinner shell.
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-07-2017, 05:57 PM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Yeah, I thought about taking it down to a 13" snare, but I wouldn't want a tom unless I was willing to build a full kit (not really equipped to do that). I think I might do as Morrisman suggests and go ahead and try it before tossing it, but I'll probably kill the taper and make the whole thing 13&5/8" first. I hadn't even considered the lug shimming, but I might make the lugs, so it shouldn't be too difficult. I had wondered whether the displaced "pull" on the head could damage it, but it sounds like that hasn't been a problem for him.

Sad part is, after all this work on the lathe, I'm now thinking of mounting a rail attachment over it, and going right back to the router. I'd still use it for sanding and stuff, but would initially rout off the corners. I'm also not looking forward to trying to rig up a one-sided setup for turning the inside, so I may build a more elaborate router rig and do that the old way too.

Thanks again!

PS- That tapered cylinder thing had me wondering what effect that would have on the internal waves, as similar techniques are often used in studio building to prevent echoes and such. I wonder if it would do anything to deaden it or cut back on ringing, and/or how much difference in diameter there would need to be between the sides for that to happen.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:39 PM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Well I put a support ticket in to Remo on that issue out of curiosity and got a reply. I don't guess there'd be any reason it was confidential.

Quote:
The head needs to fit the counter-hoop in order to tune up. Changing the bearing edge dimensions can affect the deflection point which can modify the tone, resonance and tunability. Ideally, contact of the bearing edge should be met at the drumheads collar for best performance. I'd offer a custom-sized drumhead to better fit that now odd size shell, but then it won't fit the hoop properly. Unless you customize/reduce the counter-hoop size, there's not much you can do here to better the performance. I'd maybe say go with 2-ply heads or at least an underlay-ring which has more material at the collar, that might help the contact point between the shell and head for better performance.
good luck and happy drumming!
It still seems like non-standard bevels end up in the same place though. As drastic as it sounds to trim a shell down to 13&5/8", the contact point is still only an eighth from where it would normally be. You could almost shave that far in by hand with a sanding block. I'd imagine a double 45 on even a moderately thick shell brings you in farther than that.

I guess I'm just trying to convince myself that it's OK to keep messing with it. ;)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:24 PM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Cut it and add another stave and put it back in the jig again. Might just work? Probably after to add a few smaller staves opposite eachother than one if you follow (3 small staves at 120* to eachother).

Made a few stave drums and it's tricky! If you accept that it's probably trash already then what do you have to lose?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:40 PM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
Cut it and add another stave
Funny you should mention that, as it actually started life as a 20-segment shell. I was having some tooling issues and wasn't happy with the joints, but it was already the right size, so I changed the angles and added four staves.

The more I read up on double cut bearing edges, the more I think an eighth inch inward isn't that big of a deal, so I'll probably see what it does. The only other concern is the aforementioned lug depth, but that's easily correctable.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:54 PM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

I guess but the finishing is the hardest part for me and I would hate to have to do that for nothing
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-13-2017, 12:11 AM
Jidis Jidis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 23
Default Re: Should I complete this stave shell?

I'll probably be crucified for this, but my plan on that was actually to do a wrap with plain mill finish aluminum. This particular drum is kind of an experiment and I'm not really looking for something that sings. I read a bunch of threads on it and think I might be OK if I don't rigidly affix the wrap, and maybe use the hardware to hold it on for the most part.

Take Care
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com