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  #1  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:38 AM
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Default Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

New CITES II listings came into force January 2nd. For the first time, bubinga (Guibourtia demeussi, Guiboutia pellegriniana and Guiboutia tessmannii) is included on the listing, as well as all remaining dalbergia (rosewood) species, cocobolo, etc. As bubinga has been a commonly used species in recent years, it's the one big change that's more likely to affect a number of drummers. Additionally, until now, import / export controls primarily concerned raw timber (logs, boards, sheets, veneers), but now include all finished goods.

If you're thinking of buying new drums made of bubinga (supplied from or made overseas), or drums made from any CITES II listed species (yes, even veneers), I strongly advise you must insist on proof of a CITES re-export permit from your supplier before handing over any money. This is necessary to prove that the source is pre convention. Without it, the goods will almost certainly be seized, & you'll be fighting to get a refund from your supplier.

If you're thinking of buying drums concerned from within your own country, and are likely to travel with those drums outside of your own country, I suggest you still get the relevant documentation to avoid border issues / seizure.

If you own existing drums made from CITES II species, and you plan on travelling with them, I suggest you keep documentation to prove they were purchased prior to the relevant species convention inclusion (for some rosewoods, that can be as far back as 1992). That can be a receipt, or other forms of dated ownership proof.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

This is going to be a potential nightmare for guitarists, since rosewood is a massively common wood for fingerboards.

There are said to be local variations to these regulations as well, with some countries being more accepting about travelling with these woods (as opposed to shipping them), and some also have lower weight limits (e.g. if you ship less than a certain amount, they won't bother).

Disclaimer: I haven't looked into this myself, only read about these issues on other forums and sites, so don't take my word for any of this.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
This is going to be a potential nightmare for guitarists, since rosewood is a massively common wood for fingerboards.

There are said to be local variations to these regulations as well, with some countries being more accepting about travelling with these woods (as opposed to shipping them), and some also have lower weight limits (e.g. if you ship less than a certain amount, they won't bother).

Disclaimer: I haven't looked into this myself, only read about these issues on other forums and sites, so don't take my word for any of this.
Weight limits were usually only applied to raw materials, but the latest CITES updates have specifically included all finished goods, even if the construction of those goods only contains a small percentage of the listed species. Of course, some countries will apply the rules more rigidly than others, but I wouldn't want to take a gamble on that.

Sure, a nightmare for guitarists, not just because of the likely use of rosewoods, but also increased likelihood of travelling with their instrument. However, it's the inclusion of bubinga that's the potentially big one for drummers.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:40 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

my solid bubinga stave 12x6.5 cant be traveled with then :/ i was never given a receipt as it was a london drum show special :(
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:22 PM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Same problem will asically exist for many, who bought used drums that have some kind of bubinga in them.

What about other woods like wenge or kapur or mahagoni? Are they also affected?

First and foremost, this is a "problem" for manufacturers, I guess. They will need to document that their products are "legal". I cannot imagine that if you sell e.g. your old beat up buinga snare on ebay, that customs will show up at your house and want to see the receipt. They have better things to do.

Some people already said elsewhere that this is yet another bureaucratic monster that will die silently because it cannot be applied 100%. Intent is good, proper execution next to impossible.

Okay, next drums will be Yamaha Live Custom or Recording Cutom then. Birch and Oak are there in masses. ;-)
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

A friend of mine that builds guitars got caught up in one of these issues. I can't remember the species. Be careful, you don't want the hassle! Good advice Andy.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Sounds like my Canopus Bubinga stave and Dunnett Cocobolo snares just doubled in value! :)
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

I wonder if exotic wood drums will now be disguised with silver sparkle finish to keep them stealth like.
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2017, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

It's a good thing I like simple things. Maple, Birch and Walnut work great for me. I had a bubinga snare for about a month. I never liked the sound of it and traded it off.

I do have a Honduran Rosewood snare shell (real rosewood) that I know I can't travel with, or sell, outside of the US because I don't have the paperwork to go with it. But that's okay though. I have no plans on ever doing either of those things.

So it sounds like Starclassic B/B kits will become too expensive to manufacture and likely be discontinued this year. I wonder what Tama will come up with as a replacement. They seem to be a very popular kit.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2017, 10:29 PM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

The B/B kits are still in their regular lineup for 2017. The catalogue is full of B/Bs and Starclassic/Star Bubingas. They will also launch a Bubinga/Walnut snare this year. If that's good is a different question.

I would not miss all the exotic woods. I still do have a birch Superstar and it sounds really good. And maple, oak and beech are good alternatives. Really, who needs all those special woods? When I got my Starclassics, I actually would have preferred them as 100% birch drums but they don't produce them anymore. A pity.
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by Tommy_D View Post
I had a bubinga snare for about a month. I never liked the sound of it and traded it off.
Initially, bubinga attracted me for it's deepness. But after a while I realized there's something about bubinga that annoys me. It's OK, but it's not for me. I have a Pork Pie cherry/bubinga that's just OK.

It seems crazy to me that I have to carry papers on a snare drum. It's kind of closing the barn door after the horses ran out, it's already done. This snare is already made.

The enforcer guys were too late.

It should only apply to raw wood being exported from here on out IMO.

People could still have substantial amounts of legal "grandfathered in" stocks of bubinga that they are entitled to use and transport without question IMO.
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

When travelling, rather than having all the relevant document documentation, I hope we can say, "I bought them off a dude on Craigslist".
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

It seems it should only apply to manufacturers to assure industries abide with efforts to maintain the renewable resource and manage those endangered but it seems insane that it would apply to the products they make afterwords. The Genie is already out of the bottle when the product is made. So when you travel you need to create fake badges and a stick on veneer to cover any offending endangered species so no one will notice. Hey a new market will be created-not just wraps but removable thin film veneer wraps with badges of choice too. So turn your Starclassic BB into a Ludwig maple or a Pearl birch kit and no one will notice wink, wink.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by mainframe View Post
When travelling, rather than having all the relevant document documentation, I hope we can say, "I bought them off a dude on Craigslist".
Well, when travelling, that excuse doesn't work for other contraband.

I too prefer basic woods. Kapur is common and not likely to be on the list for a long time. I'm hoping more drums are made of it.
But Bubinga is such a nice 'exotic' name.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:07 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

It's a good to protect the species. At the end of the day the problem are timber poachers, basically a dude with a chainsaw.

You can invest in tree plantations, it's one of the fastest growing investments. You can get in at any stage, first planting to buying harvestable stock yo take to the old growth stage. Unfortunately, many of the woods are so valuable that even if you wanted to invest in growing them, the dude with the chainsaw would cut it down while you aren't looking. Eventually, once the market is controlled people will invest in forests of these trees, and there will be a sustainable supply.

I think one of the interesting woods is Persimmon. Very common in the US, but it is essentially a variety of ebony, beautiful.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

To add some real world to this news:

1/ bubinga drums will still be available if suppliers have stocks harvested before January 2nd. The suppliers need only to obtain a re-export certificate for each batch shipped, & to get that, they pay a fee / batch, & show proof of obtaining the wood before January 2nd.

2/ If you buy bubinga drums in your own country, made by a reputable manufacturer, and from an appointed retailer, you can bet that supply chain had the relevant documentation in place. You should still ask for proof of compliance though, as you'll likely need it if you travel with the drums or seek to sell them on.

3/ If you bought your drums prior to January 2nd, a purchase receipt from the retailer should be all that's required.

4/ If you bought the drums privately prior to January 2nd, a datable photo showing the drums in your possession, a provable link to the dated advertisement, or any other reasonably provable evidence of supply prior to January 2nd should suffice.


It makes sense to control finished goods, just as it makes sense to control finished ivory items & similar. The idea is to encourage the use of alternative materials, & reduce consumer demand.

On a personal & professional note, I think there are many more plentiful woods that sound just as good as, if not better than bubinga, within a similar sound palate - IMHO.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
On a personal & professional note, I think there are many more plentiful woods that sound just as good as, if not better than bubinga, within a similar sound palate - IMHO.
Andy, what woods would you pick as better than bubinga for snare builds?
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Much is made of the hardness of woods (Janka scale) but I know there is variation even in a given species and you can find hard to soft species of oak or maples. I live around lots of live oaks a very hard wood that I've always wondered what kind of drum it would make? There are other biomechanical differences between woods too such as elastic modulus, compression and shear forces (http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/pdfs/des...es_Updated.pdf) and that has to account for differences in woods and their acoustic properties also?? I've often wondered what has driven the wood choices over time for drums and wondered if the build is more important than the wood in reality.
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by Vintage Old School View Post
Andy, what woods would you pick as better than bubinga for snare builds?
Of course, there's no such thing as "better", only opinion. In my personal opinion, & considering species in roughly the same sonic space, I think ovangkol has bubinga beat hands down. It has a bright top end, but not as harsh as bubinga. It's midrange is more present, & it's lows are just as full. In other words, a slightly better balanced species.

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Much is made of the hardness of woods (Janka scale) but I know there is variation even in a given species and you can find hard to soft species of oak or maples.
Hardness is only one aspect that contributes to the species sound. Much of it's character is based in it's structure (that's why you reduce some of it's signature tones when you slice it into thin sheets).

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I've often wondered what has driven the wood choices over time for drums and wondered if the build is more important than the wood in reality.
Outside of bespoke builders, wood choices are historically driven more by availability & fashion than any other considerations. Maple has been a standard of the US drum industry for decades, mainly because it was plentiful. Birch has been popular in many countries, mainly because birch is the western world "go to" for decorative finishing sheet on construction ply boards (90%+ of the worlds birch production goes into that industry, & most drum companies pull sheets from the same supply). Sonor were well known for beech - primarily because they had an economical local source for it.

50 years ago, nobody even asked what wood their drums were made of. Some companies even used any old piece of crap sheet, painted the inside of the shell with silver fence paint to harmonise the appearance, then built a marketing campaign around it. Runs for cover ;)

In modern times, wood species choices are mostly still made on availability & fashion, but other drivers feed into it too. Some builders (both large & small) actually choose wood species based on their sonic properties, many based on physical appearance, & a few based on the "kudos of owning an exotic species drum" demands of select customers. Because of cost, most "exotic" requirements these days are met by using veneers. This gives the "finish" that satisfies most, but of course, doesn't deliver the signature species sound, as the shell is still primarily constructed of common species varieties.

A growing number of manufacturers are using "engineered" outer plies such as Alpi brand to satisfy the exotic finish demand. Ok, they don't have the depth of visual offered by the real thing, but it's a trend I fully approve of. I just wish that manufacturers using it would proudly stand behind it & promote it's ecological advantages rather than passing it off as the real thing.

As for construction, yes, it has a far greater impact on the instrument's resultant characteristics, but the wood species still feeds into the mix if the construction allows it to shine through.
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Does that mean it's okay to transport my mammoth ivory snare but the elephant ivory snare I got last month has to stay home?
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

They'll have to pry my bubinga drums from my cold dead hands. I seriously doubt this new classification will pose any problems for owners of existing drums, even those who travel with their gear. No bubinga police. This ruling will however cause major problems for Tama, and any other manufacturer dependent on that species when their existing supplies run out. Look for Tama to unveil a completely new lineup at NAMM 2018 that touts the new species they gravitate towards as the greatest yet. Sadly the day of bubinga is over.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:23 PM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Not only Tama. Sonor, Gretsch, Ludwig, DW/PDP, Sakae,... also use Bubinga for some of their products.
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2017, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by Wave Deckel View Post
Not only Tama. Sonor, Gretsch, Ludwig, DW/PDP, Sakae,... also use Bubinga for some of their products.
Trust me - there will still be "bubinga" drums, even after the pre convention stock runs dry. Certain sectors of the drum industry will do what they've always done - they'll generously "rename" a close related species as bubinga, in the same way they did with mahogany, rosewoods, etc. Either that, or they'll resurrect the old "select hardwoods" thing (= code for "whatever we can buy cheaply enough & get away with).
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

I echo your thoughts on Alpi, Andy. I really wish that more manufacturers were using it and discussing it rather than brushing the fact that they use it (if they do) under the carpet. It's a great compromise. Not quite as aesthetically pleasing as the 'real thing' but the environmental impact is so much lower than cutting down figured and endangered woods for the sake of vanity. If they can extoll the virtues of Apli to their consumer base, then the demand for figured wood may eventually reduce and there be less pressure to cut down these rare trees in the first place.

Part of the reason I started really following what you do in the beginning was because of the 'prototype' floating kit being made out of reclaimed mahogany. I thought that was a brilliant idea - utterly brilliant. It makes me wonder how much perfectly good (and very high-quality, utterly seasoned) wood we throw away like that.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:56 AM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Trust me - there will still be "bubinga" drums, even after the pre convention stock runs dry.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I am sure that we will see bubinga and other exotic woods in instruments in the future. But probably there will be less of them (at a higher pricetag) and manufacturers might look out for other (cheaper, less prolematic, but still exotic) woods. Those will be marketed as the "real deal" then, I guess.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:47 AM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Trust me - there will still be "bubinga" drums, even after the pre convention stock runs dry. Certain sectors of the drum industry will do what they've always done - they'll generously "rename" a close related species as bubinga, in the same way they did with mahogany, rosewoods, etc. Either that, or they'll resurrect the old "select hardwoods" thing (= code for "whatever we can buy cheaply enough & get away with).
Yeah, I think the manufacture is driven more by the cheap labor than the wood qualities. People think ooh exotic must be desirable, but really just in expensive to acquire and manufacture.

There are many species of "exotic", musical or otherwise desirable lumber in the US, it mostly gets burned for firewood cause some bodi'ed haf'ta stack an' dry it. Mostly, people just don't know about persimmon, Osage orange, hornbeam, black locust etc. or they have not bothered to figure out what the properties of it are, because it's too hard...
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:28 AM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Hornbeam is great for sticks. ;-)

On a side-note: I just played with my all-birch Superstars yesterday (after roughly one month of not playing them) and, man, they do sound really good. Basically, birch, beech, oak and maple should cover all the needs of drummers. But as long as people want to be "different", to distinguish themselves from the masses *cough* there will be a market for "exotic wood" drumsets.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Somehow I question the relevance of this news to most drummers on here.

If i was to buy a boutique kit (I never will, it's like buying a ferrari - completely impractical and over-priced for day-to-day use) then I would only buy from a company like Guru anyway.

If I was buying mainstream then I'm sure Tama are a reputable company too.

As others have said, it will affect guitar builders, not guitarists.

Why don't we see more rosewood drums? Years ago I played a rosewood KD snare in Stockport and it was epic. For years, I've said that if I was to get a custom snare, I was rosewood. Not just for it's sound but also it's amazing look.

Is rosewood just too expensive and rare these days?
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Somehow I question the relevance of this news to most drummers on here.
I believe it is relevant to many drummers on here, that's why I put it here. Many major manufacturers are using bubinga in their builds. It's not just about checking if the wood is legal if bought after January 2nd, it's potentially having to prove that it was supplied pre convention date if you were to ever travel across borders with it. That's something that's relevant information to anyone who currently owns a drum made (either wholly or in parts) of bubinga, or indeed any CITES II listed species.

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Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post
Is rosewood just too expensive and rare these days?
True rosewoods are very rare, and trade in them has absolutely been illegal for decades. There are many rosewood related species still available, often touted as true rosewoods, that you can still have drums built from, but even those are beyond the pricing acceptable to major drum brands. Quite honestly, there's species out there that sound just as good, & I would seriously question the sonic benefit of building any multiple ply drum from a true rosewood, or even a related species for that matter.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I believe it is relevant to many drummers on here, that's why I put it here. Many major manufacturers are using bubinga in their builds. It's not just about checking if the wood is legal if bought after January 2nd, it's potentially having to prove that it was supplied pre convention date if you were to ever travel across borders with it. That's something that's relevant information to anyone who currently owns a drum made (either wholly or in parts) of bubinga, or indeed any CITES II listed species.

There's so much bad information in this thread I have no idea where to begin...

Frankly I'm shocked that a guy who's building custom drums, let alone ones made out of solid exotic woods is so uneducated... misguided on CITES.

For starters... people traveling across borders with their personal drums... no reason to worry. There's a "personal use" exception for instruments containing & weighing up to/under 11kg or roughly 25 pounds of protected species.

Also touring acts crossing international borders have little need to worry about instruments they already own. As long as the instrument in question is hand carried, not shipped separately they can cross international borders without paperwork or permits.

If the instruments are traveling on their own its easy enough to apply for papers, basically a "passport" for your gear. Already shipping in trailers? Just another declaration form.

No "receipt of purchase" is going to be enough... nor does it matter when the builders stock was procured or how many decades its spent curing on the rack. Also doesn't matter when the drum/guitar/bagpipes were built. Supplying a photo?! Seriously? WTF??

As a drum builder, and retailer you need to apply for a "Master File" and permits or have your shipments seized. Likewise people who do a lot of wheeling & dealing across borders need to apply for the same permits. Cost is low. Wait is long.

Many people in the guitar universe are already well aware of what's happening and the laws. As of Jan 2 Warmoth has stopped international shipments on some woods until the paperwork clears. Ishibashi in Tokyo has done the same thing. Should be back to normal soon enough but they both applied several months ago.

FWIW the vast majority of this international law & treaty isn't aimed at the MI industry, but more towards both furniture and perfume industries. World wide between guitars, drums, musical instruments in general account for maybe 5% of what's cut down and processed into a finished project.

Woods affected are way more then bubinga. Blackwood, cocobolo, ebony, kingwood, basically ALL rosewoods... Indian (even already protected plantation!); santos etc. Brazilian has been schedule I since 1992. Many other woods are affected as well.

Also worth noting... NONE of this matters unless your crossing an international border. And not all countries recognize CITES regulations.

I'm simply blown away... hopefully you can get educated, circle the wagons and protect your drum building business.

Last edited by jmoose; 01-10-2017 at 04:56 AM. Reason: typos
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  #31  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Frankly I'm shocked that a guy who's building custom drums, let alone ones made out of solid exotic woods is so uneducated... misguided on CITES.
I apologise to all for my lack of understanding / research on this matter. I should have got into the detail before raising it here - my bad. Thank you to jmoose for calling me out on this.

For the record, we don't build custom drums, & have no intention of using any of the highlighted species in our instruments. If we used such species, then of course, we would be way better informed about our responsibilities.

Edit: Mod's, please feel free to delete this thread on the basis of inaccurate information.

Last edited by keep it simple; 01-10-2017 at 12:03 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I apologise to all for my lack of understanding / research on this matter. I should have got into the detail before raising it here - my bad. Thank you to jmoose for calling me out on this.

For the record, we don't build custom drums, & have no intention of using any of the highlighted species in our instruments. If we used such species, then of course, we would be way better informed about our responsibilities.

Edit: Mod's, please feel free to delete this thread on the basis of inaccurate information.
Why delete it? What good does that do anyone? Unless its a favoritism thing here... hoof in mouth so delete?

Not that I want to hassle you, but this is your drum company right?

http://www.gurudrums.co.uk/shell-construction

Scrolling down to the wood choices there's easily at least a dozen types listed that are currently on CITES. Four rosewoods, blackwood, kingwood, macassar ebony, pau rosa (offshoot of Brazilian rosewood), Muhuhu and a few others.

For example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniba_rosaeodora

Quote:
A. rosodora is an endangered species. Populations have declined rapidly due to the destructive harvesting methods. Areas previously logged have not seen much regrowth.[4] It might even be critically endangered.[8] Wild populations exist in remote locations, which are hence unlikely to be exploited.[4]

The Brazilian government has enacted regulations to help conserve the species. There have been difficulties with enforcement. Early experiments in artificial cultivation and propagation were failures. More recent attempts have been more successful.[3] It, or rather its wood and essential oil, is on Appendix II of CITES.[9] If the leaves could be used as a source, it would help conserve the species.[3] It has been suggested that production methods be altered to ensure a sustainable supply.[10] It is also listed on the Official list of endangered flora of Brazil.[11]

And again, it doesn't matter if you cut the tree and built the drum 5 or even 15 years ago. CITES is enforced worldwide about what's happening today. If your building with these materials you need to be on top of the regulations and apply for permits.

The little guitar corner of the interknot I hang in sometimes, guys like John Suhr & the crew at Warmoth were talking about this stuff as early as last summer. Not a surprise.

Even Kilberry bagpipes has a notice on the front page of their website...

https://kilberrybagpipes.com/
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  #33  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

jmoose - I'm quite sure Andy's intentions were not bad with this thread, and I feel like you're going at him in a sort of aggressive way. I understand the want to re-educate us, and appreciate it, just wanted to mention that your tone came off a bit negative.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

Gentlemen let's re-group and catch our breath. I have known Andy for quite some time and his integrity has never been questioned. He has apologized, admitted to making a mistake, so let's m move on. Jmoose made his point, and I don't think with any malice intended, so we will leave this where it is and if anyone has questions about the sale, use or procurement of exotic woods I would assume these two gentlemen would be happy to offer assistance. Mistakes were made, no one has been injured, so let's move on. Those that PM'ed me with concerns, I hope my explanation is sufficient. If not let me know privately. Have a great day.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

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Why delete it? What good does that do anyone? Unless its a favoritism thing here... hoof in mouth so delete?
No favouritism applied here, or expected. I certainly don't want anything deleted to save my embarrassment. I got it wrong, I thanked you for calling me out on it. I have no issues admitting a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoose View Post
Not that I want to hassle you, but this is your drum company right?

http://www.gurudrums.co.uk/shell-construction

Scrolling down to the wood choices there's easily at least a dozen types listed that are currently on CITES.
Of course, you're correct. That example list from our supplier should have been removed a good while ago - again, my bad. The site is due for a refresh according to a number of changes, I just haven't got around to it. Anyhow, I've deleted it. It's been a long time since we built from any of the species you highlighted, & even back then, maybe only 1 or 2 examples.


Edit: Just seen Grunt's post after I posted mine. I'm completely fine with everything, & for the record, I had no concerns whatsoever - PM'd or otherwise.
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2017, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Bubinga (& other species) - a warning

To add.

I spoke to the International Sales Department of Ishibashi and they informed me some more regarding the CITES list (this was regarding a vintage bass with a Rosewood neck, I wanted to buy off their shop):
Quote:
In general, the CITES regulation is what you say. However, in Japan, the authorities decided to take it one step further by prohibiting items bought this year to be granted the permit. This means that we have to prove when we bought the item and if it was bought this year, it will not qualify. I am truly sorry about that. You are also correct that this has diminished international sales of guitars but perhaps not with as much as 50% but a large percentage, nevertheless.

For qualifying instruments, we can only send the application once it has sold. The reason for this being that the permit will be tied to the name and billing address of the buyer.
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