CYMBAL REPAIRS / MODS

BarryBuchanan · #1 07-30-2005, 02:10 PM

Hey all...i recently cracked one of my Paiste 2002 cymbals and i hav just bought two iron cobras so im a bit skint 4 cash!!! does n e 1 no if u can mend cymbals at all??? thanks all

NUTHA JASON · #2 07-30-2005, 04:24 PM

here is a diagram i drew.
i have also found that with a repaired cymbal it is a good idea to actually give it a small keyhole so that the repaired side is most likely to face away from your stick. with a radial repair like this, so long as the crack was small and not larger than 2cm then the sound of the cymbal will not be drastically changed.

j

RudimentalDrummer · #3 07-30-2005, 04:54 PM

Bro Nutha Jason

That was very great info for all of us...thks man !

Brent W · #4 07-30-2005, 05:34 PM

Dependent upon the type of crack it is, you might be able to get a replacement from the company, especially a larger company like Paiste. But they will only send you a replacement if the crack is a result of a manufacturing flaw. Generally, this is when a crack occurs on a lathing line or one of the hammer grooves. And in this case it usually takes very little toll on the sound of the cymbal. This happened with my friend's UFIP (I believe it was UFIP anyways) splash and the thing still rang out beautifully after getting a crack around the lathing line.

One thing I would not recommend trying to do, which about 75% of the drummers I know try first is to solder a cracked cymbal. First of all, the result will look messy and second of all, it will not do a single thing for the sound really (unless there was a buzz or vibration resulting from the crack), but this will not give the cymbal the sustain, volume, and depth it once had. When alloys and metals are cut and sculpted into a defined shape like a cymbal, one of the key factors in producing the sound is based around the concept of stress. It is kind of like a ticking time bomb because sometimes the right hit in the right place will cause all this stress to be released on one concentrated area across the cymbal's surface. The bright side is that the cymbal is 100% less likely to crack again once it is cracked. Thus, if you like the sound of the cymbal post-cracking, chances are you won't have to worry about being delicate with that cymbal and compromising the sound.

Also if the cymbal sounds nothing like it did initially and you hate the sound of it you have two other options. You can sell it. Surprisingly, there are a lot of guys out there in search of cracked cymbals for obscure projects. Like cutting them into weird shapes and using them to piggyback with other cymbals. I've seen some cracked cymbals go for as much as $50! The second option is probably a bit more useful. You can cut down the cymbal into a smaller splash or just use the bell and make your own ice bell (pending that the crack is not on the bell). This way no cracked cymbal goes to waste! If you have hook-ups with someone that works at a machine shop talk you could ask them to do it on their lunch break or if you can find the machinery to do it you can do it yourself. A guy my Dad worked with once made three ice bells out of three cracked cymbals I bought for $5. The result was awesome, The cut was perfectly circular and he even cleaned up the edge where the cut occurred. The cymbal looked like a brand new ice bell and it sounded awesome. This was a temporary fix for me until I saved up about $80 to buy a real Sabian Stage Ice Bell. The best part about this too is how I came up with the money. I ended up selling the three homemade ice bells (two smaller ones for $25 and the bigger one for $30). Thus, in the end I basically got an $80 bell for $5 (initial cost for the cracked cymbals).

Hence you can always profit of what you may think is old junk. All you need is the right skills and tools and sometimes the right perspective.

Best of luck with the cracked cymbal! You have lots of options and directions with it.

-Brent

BarryBuchanan · #5 07-30-2005, 05:53 PM

thank you all! that diagram is great!!!!!!!! i hope the cymbal lasts long enough 4 me to get some dosh in!!! thanks..... i beta become a lighter metal player!!!!!! other wise im gona go bust!!! haha thanks all!!!
check out my band web site 4 pics of me and the drums.... www.nochaa.tk

Stevis · #6 07-31-2005, 12:05 AM

Hmmmmm......Try drilling holes on each end of the crack to keep it from getting bigger. As for the crack itself theres really nothing you can do to fix it 100%.

#7 08-08-2005, 11:33 PM

I was browsing ebay and I decided to buy a cracked 17" Paiste 2002 custom. From what I understand, the cymbal costs about 300 new.. I am fairly new to drums, but I bought it for $30 (inc shipping) considering I had some extra money to spend and i was curious, so i'm not too concerned if this small investment is a waste

anyway.. I am curious if anyone has used cracked cymbals because I hear depending on the crack size and location you can get a pretty cool sound that doesn't let you feel guilty about playing w/ a cracked cymbal. I also bought a new pair of Zildjian ZBT Plus high hats.. can't wait til i get 'em all!.. now i need a dbl bass pedal

Dill X · #8 08-08-2005, 11:40 PM

Since January I've cracked a ride cymbal (1.5 inch crack), a crash (two 5 or 6 inch cracks), and a splash (four .5 to 1.5 inch cracks), as well as warping the hell out of another crash.

This is all from me just beating the hell out of them I guess, so I guess I would know a bit about cracked cymbals from my experiences.

With cracked cymbals, depending on the size of the crack(s), you usually get a sizzly kind of sound. The cymbals will also become quietter and less sensitive, which is a pain for a crash or ride.

But if you can deal with that and you like the weird sounds you can get, then all the power to you.

Superlow · #9 08-09-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dill X

Since January I've cracked a ride cymbal (1.5 inch crack), a crash (two 5 or 6 inch cracks), and a splash (four .5 to 1.5 inch cracks), as well as warping the hell out of another crash.

This is all from me just beating the hell out of them I guess, so I guess I would know a bit about cracked cymbals from my experiences.

With cracked cymbals, depending on the size of the crack(s), you usually get a sizzly kind of sound. The cymbals will also become quietter and less sensitive, which is a pain for a crash or ride.

But if you can deal with that and you like the weird sounds you can get, then all the power to you.

Trust me, that gets old quick. Buy brand new cymbals with a one or two year warranty. I am pretty sure Sabian's HHX line gets a two year warranty. They are very good at honoring the warranty as well. There really isn't much you can do with a broken cymbal. I know people say they sound weird and cool but to me when a drummer plays live with a broken cymbal it sound like they are playing with a broken cymbal.

finnhiggins · #10 08-09-2005, 12:44 AM

Right. If you want trashy cheap noises you can buy little thin cooking bowls for about NZ$2 (so about a buck or less in the US) from cheapo bargain-basement stores. They sound about as good as a broken cymbal does, and they have the advantage that for US$30 you can buy... well.. thirty of them.

You do have to tolerate the odd looks from the shop owner when you insist on trying all of the ones in the store out in order to get a good range of pitches though. He was constantly reassuring me that they're all of high standard, I think he thought I was testing for manufacturing defects or something. I kept telling him - I just want a nice range of sounds!

nate · #11 08-09-2005, 01:01 AM

How the hell do you crack a cymbal?

I’ve broken sticks, skins, pedals (all down doing having s**** technique) and even bass amps and a couple of PA’s but I’ve never cracked a cymbal in over 16 years...am I lucky? I dunno....I’ve always been playing zildjians. I like the sound. I don't have a light touch...what the hell are you guys doing?

..and nutha jason have you really cut down a 16" to a 14"ever, it would be pretty hard to get right wouldn't it...I used to do a little bit of metal work - and using tin snips was hard - well at least I found it hard...(good theory/pic though).

NUTHA JASON · #12 08-09-2005, 01:15 AM

the splash in the bottom pic i made by cutting a 14'' bottom hat down using tin snips and sand paper.

sorry about the quality but these are old photos.

cymbal damage can occour in a variety of ways. my last damage came from setting my crash too low so that it hit on the wing nut of my splash stand (not on this kit above).
also cymbals can be damaged in transit. sudden temperature changes or minute imperfections in the cymbal that grow inside the metal invisibly and then appear suddenly. after all good technique or not we do hit 'em.

j

nate · #13 08-09-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON

the splash in the bottom pic i made by cutting a 14'' bottom hat down using tin snips and sand paper.

j

looks good - nice one....

rockzilla · #14 08-09-2005, 12:41 PM

nutha ???

so you can setup your cymbals wrong

but wat is de good setup??? at what kind of degree must the stick hit and thing like that

rockzilla

NUTHA JASON · #15 08-09-2005, 12:53 PM

well it was just the bell and a bit of bow from an old hihat so it was very tough. i inverted it and hammered down the edge a bit so it was like a china in a way. sounded like a pang. very, VERY loud.

j

ps: this photo was also taken 10 years ago. my cymbal set up has advanced since then.

Stu_Strib · #16 08-09-2005, 03:35 PM

I've never cracked a cymbal, so I don't have a solution.

Oh wait, yes I do. Here is my diagram on how to mend a broken cymbal:

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(j/k nutha, nice work)

#17 08-12-2005, 11:29 PM

no wonder i didn't get any replies.. 'cracked cymbals' was already a topic! wow took me 4 days to figure that one out :x

Jaymasta · #18 08-13-2005, 03:45 AM

Want to see my first and cracked cymbal I'll post up a pic but It's a very cheap cymbal It's the first cymbal I've ever owned......

NUTHA JASON · #19 08-13-2005, 11:05 AM

post it and also if poss show your repair job. i'll also do one later.

j

NUTHA JASON · #20 08-13-2005, 11:27 AM

...and here it is:

NUTHA JASON · #21 08-14-2005, 07:01 PM

i was aiming to make a splash but there is no way of denying it this cymbal is a ride!
i took an old cracked paiste 2002 top hi hat and cut it down to 8and a half inches. gave it a good polishing and then took it to the gig last night. it barks like a china pang when hit like you would hit a splash or crash but to my surprise the bell competes with the bell of my 22'' ride and even the bow is loud enough to cut through. it is a unique sound. quite dry and low toned for such a small cymbal and as you can imagine there is no wash but loads of ring. the metal is quite thick and so the sound is a ride.
when i got home this morining i buffed her up and gave her a paint job and now she will be a permanent feature on my kit.
j

DogBreath · #22 08-14-2005, 07:23 PM

Very nice, and that's a great paint job!

Dill X · #23 08-14-2005, 07:23 PM

...decadent. Just decadent...

aahznightsky · #24 08-15-2005, 03:22 AM

wow ... thats amazing! I would love to do something like that ... seems everyone loves to make new things from their paiste cymbals. Sweet idea!

drumzalicious · #25 08-15-2005, 07:00 AM

that would be kinda neat to use on a kit.

NUTHA JASON · #26 08-15-2005, 12:04 PM

yeah i'm putting it just to the left and above my hihat. that way i can do p[aterrns between the hat and the miniride as well as using it as an EFX splash in the funk songs we do. it is so loud that when i hit it and my 16'' crash in a flam you can hear it clearly. it's also so thick that it is fairly unlikely to break so this is going to be part of my personal sonic signature for a loooong time i reckon.

j

somedrummer · #27 08-15-2005, 09:30 PM

Hey well done Jason.

I thought I'd try the same type of thing with one of my old hihats and tried some tinsnips on it, but couldn't get anywhere. So I'm asking, what did you use to cut that? thanks,

ROb

Drumkill · #28 08-15-2005, 10:47 PM

Thats a funky ride!!!! Might be appropriate for someone who is height challenged such as my self!!!

NUTHA JASON · #29 08-16-2005, 02:48 AM

hi rob. they were tinsnips but it was a pig of a job. i had to cut in a spiral and
also had to cut radial snips just to get the jaws into position each time. plus, because of the angles and pressures only about 1cm per cut was possible so it took hundreds of cuts to do the lot. i did it on the carpet and leaned my weight onto the cutters each time especially near the end when they were getting blunt. they only cost me £6 so they lasted just long enough to do the job.

j
ps i just found the ebay pic of them when i bought them (the top one is the one i kept. the bottom is the one i cut):

RudimentalDrummer · #30 09-07-2005, 11:31 AM

Yes ... I remember now. Zombie has 2 crack Paiste Crash Cymbals (that's why I loan them my 2 Crash - It's been 5 weeks now)...I'm taking back my 2 cymbals by end of this month...at the same time ... TRY MY LUCK...and see if they will give me the 2 Crack Paiste Cymbals, then go down to my Father-In-Law Hardware Shop and get him to (Mend it & Trim/Cut it using Machine)......

Hopefully I can get to hear some INNOVATIVE sounds comming out after whatever being repair. ...Whahahahaha...yes...yes I'll try to convince them to give me the broken Paiste 502 Crash Cymbals.

#31 09-07-2005, 06:19 PM

When I cracked one of my cymbals (Zildjian 16" medium thin crash) I had it replaced. The cymbal had a thin spot in one of the grooves during it's spin on the lathe. The thin groove ran all around the cymbal and it cracked in the same groove in three different locations.

CartersChops · #32 09-12-2005, 04:17 AM

haha reading this has inspired me to mess around with my two broken cymbals. i at first had them stacked up on top of one another and it was awesome, i messed that up real bad by trying to bend the edges into a china, but wat the hell

#33 09-16-2005, 07:34 PM

hey nutha jason
i was wondering if you had any advice or input on what to do with a crack on a china.
i own a 18" Zildjian China "Trash" which recently has developed a crack in the bend that runs around the cymbal giving it the china look. it is exaclty 2" from the the rim and runs around the cymbal roughly 3". it is not a very bad crack, u can hardly see it unless u are lookin for it, so i was figuring i would just drill 2 holes on each ends of the crack...is that a good idea? haha. any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated. thanx

NUTHA JASON · #34 09-18-2005, 10:58 PM

yes two 3 -5 mm holes on the ends of the crack should stop it from growing. i would also purposefully keyhole the center cymbal hole slightly so that the crack is always at the top or side of the cymbal where it is least likely to be struck by a stick.

unfortunately a bow crack is the hardest to fix and obviously cutting down a china would make it, well, not a china anymore. i hope the holes work.

j

Stone Cold · #35 09-21-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

How the hell do you crack a cymbal?

I’ve broken sticks, skins, pedals (all down doing having s**** technique) and even bass amps and a couple of PA’s but I’ve never cracked a cymbal in over 16 years...am I lucky?

..and nutha jason have you really cut down a 16" to a 14"ever, it would be pretty hard to get right wouldn't it...I used to do a little bit of metal work - and using tin snips was hard - well at least I found it hard...(good theory/pic though).

well I don't think you're lucky...you destroyed more than I ever will...and I have one cracked cymbal :)

untilitsleeps · #36 09-26-2005, 07:31 AM

i got a question what are tin snips?

DogBreath · #37 10-01-2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untilitsleeps

i got a question what are tin snips?

Tin snips.

NUTHA JASON · #38 10-01-2005, 12:05 PM

or

basically man sized nail clippers.

j

#39 10-01-2005, 01:42 PM

I should mention that if you do decide to drill a hole at the end of the crack, make sure you take a magnifying glass and check to see where the crack REALLY ends. You may be only able to see a part of it without getting a closer look. I had a Sabian AA Medium-Thin crash that cracked and my dad drilled a hole in it, but he must not have seen the actual end of the crack because the hole didn't stop it from cracking further.

mr_hayward_99 · #40 10-05-2005, 08:03 PM

I have recently bought a new HHX evolution ride cymbal. It is really loud and when i practice in my room it is too loud because of the acoustics.

so what i have done is got my old ride cymbal and duck taped 3 peices of pizza box, the plastic base,the bottom of the cymbal so it is much quiter. Now i can play with the pads on my drum kit and have a quite cymbal as well. i could have bout some pads for my cymbals but i dont have any money.

does anyone have any other things/modifications they have made to their cymbals. i know some people have cut down their existing cracked cymbals. but what about putting rivits in old cymbals, or hanging chains on them.

any ideas.