THE SINGLE STROKE ROLL THREAD

minishee07 · #1 08-08-2005, 07:56 AM

should i use fingers? which fingers? just middle? or all?

RudimentalDrummer · #2 08-08-2005, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minishee07

should i use fingers? which fingers? just middle? or all?

If I'm correct ... The stick should be high up, holding sticks with your thumb & 2nd finger with the remaining of the stick resting on your last 3 fingers ...then drop down (alternate R & L hands) and you must use your last 3 fingers to catch the stick during rebound, do it slowly at 1st .... speed is not so important initially as it will build up through time - just get the technique correct ... cause if you don't catch the stick ... you will notice that (If you are Right-handed) your left-stick most of the time would not be hitting consistenly on the exact same spot of the snare but swaying here and there .... I guess you have to look at the snare and see if your sticks is hitting on the same spot during practice .... Wonder if I'm correct here ... Bros here please give your valuable advice too...

Bro minishee07, I'm still learning too

finnhiggins · #3 08-08-2005, 11:01 AM

There's no one technique for singles, at least as far as I'm concerned. You need to be able to execute them from the wrist, from the fingers and also from the arms in some circumstances. At slow tempos sometimes finger control alone is too vague, but once bounce comes into play then fingers get extremely useful at low dynamics. If you're playing hard on a floor tom you're going to need to be able to play from your wrists at the very least.

The big thing is being able to control the rebound of the stick though. If you're fighting it or your sticks are not travelling in the shortest path possible (straight down and back up along the same line, no circles or funny angled rebounds) then you'll never be able to get the speed up in a clean way.

You can tell if you're fighting the stick - play on a practice pad, and watch the "arc" your stick moves through. If it looks like one long blur then you're doing well, all is good. If you can see a "stopped" stick for a fraction of a second at the bottom of the arc then you're stopping the stick and then picking it up again, and that's bad. Also if your sticks aren't going in a straight line - if they're coming in at a 45-degree angle from the head or whatever. That's also bad.

As for anything else in technique you'll need to learn a proper grip (trad or one of the various matched grips) properly, so that you are using all the fingers on your hand properly and not letting your fulcrum or wrist get tense. Teachers are really helpful for this!

After that it's all just work - there's a million and one good exercises for getting swift clean singles, pick any five and work them to death and you'll be fine.

Smoky_McPot · #4 08-08-2005, 11:29 AM

Hey I dont agree that there is no technique for single strokes.
No 1 is the "Free Stroke"
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/dr...mfamularo.html
Check out Dom's vid! Awesome drummer.

And No.2 is the Push Pull technique. Check out Dave Weckl's vid on this site, and check out the Sticky "One Handed Rolls". Basically your getting each hand to be as fast as possible by doing a sort of double stroke roll with each hand. Its a bit hard for me to explain, just check it out above you'll see what i mean.

finnhiggins · #5 08-08-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky_McPot

Hey I dont agree that there is no technique for single strokes.
No 1 is the "Free Stroke"

...

And No.2 is the Push Pull technique.

Well, I did say there was no *one* technique, so since you just named two I guess you agree with me :)

Smoky_McPot · #6 08-08-2005, 12:33 PM

Oops, sorry mate. Misread ur post. Still, check out the links, theyre good regardless!

finnhiggins · #7 08-08-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky_McPot

Oops, sorry mate. Misread ur post. Still, check out the links, theyre good regardless!

I am - thanks. My matched grip playing is pretty clean but I suspect there's at least some minor stuff technically wrong with my traditional grip so I'm downloading the videos on that to see if there's anything useful :)

toteman2 · #8 08-09-2005, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky_McPot

Hey I dont agree that there is no technique for single strokes.
No 1 is the "Free Stroke"
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/dr...mfamularo.html
Check out Dom's vid! Awesome drummer.

And No.2 is the Push Pull technique. Check out Dave Weckl's vid on this site, and check out the Sticky "One Handed Rolls". Basically your getting each hand to be as fast as possible by doing a sort of double stroke roll with each hand. Its a bit hard for me to explain, just check it out above you'll see what i mean.

While the "free stroke" will help one understand the technique behing the single stroke roll very well, the "push pull technique" has nothing to do with a single stroke roll...Single stroke rolls are played with 2 hands...

http://www.virgildonati.com/videos/h..._111304_02.wmv

This is a great example of the single stroke roll, played at low and high volume...Hope this helps...

drumzalicious · #9 08-09-2005, 03:06 AM

i find it easier to use a combination of all my fingers and my wrists to achieve good singles.

Smoky_McPot · #10 08-09-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumzalicious

i find it easier to use a combination of all my fingers and my wrists to achieve good singles.

That is basically what the Push Pull technique is, when you use your wrist for one stroke and your fingers for another and repeat. This is *another* way to achieve blistering speeds. I said it was sortof a double stroke because your wrist only moves once per 2 strokes. Virgil is using the Free Stroke technique that Dom Famularo demonstrates.
Check out Dave Weckl's video on this site. He shows the technique. And another link somewhere in the Sticky "One handed rolls" demonstrates using the technique as singles. So you have R L R L but the 1st R L is made with a wrist movement and the next R L with the fingers of each hand. Hope you get what im talking about!

#11 08-10-2005, 02:06 AM

All 3. And you should do some research and learn the Gladstone and Moeller methods. They are hard work, but they are essential and more than worth the effort.

toteman2 · #12 08-10-2005, 02:14 AM

Quote:

So you have R L R L but the 1st R L is made with a wrist movement and the next R L with the fingers of each hand.

Again this is exactly what Dom shows in his "free stoke" technique, but it has nothing to do with the "push pull" technique...You can't play singles with the push pull because it's a double stroke by nature...To play a single stroke roll you have to be a free stroke master...

RudimentalDrummer · #13 08-10-2005, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky_McPot

you have R L R L but the 1st R L is made with a wrist movement and the next R L with the fingers of each hand. Hope you get what im talking about!

What does this means bro Smoky? ...The 2nd RL with fingers of each hands means - an Accent? if we are doing that ....right? ???????

hotsauce3n · #14 08-10-2005, 05:47 AM

If you are talking about single handed rolls, then i would go with the freehand technique, i now have that completely down now, im still trying to get down the push pull technique...this one is much harder

Smoky_McPot · #15 08-10-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudimentalDrummer

What does this means bro Smoky? ...The 2nd RL with fingers of each hands means - an Accent? if we are doing that ....right? ???????

Your not doing an accent. Ok, the Free Hand technique uses the force of the stroke to bounce the stick back up to the start position and repeat. This is an extension of that where the 1st stroke on each hand is made by a free stroke, and the 2nd stroke is made by the fingers pulling the base of the stick into your palm creating another stroke, but with 1/2 the wrist movement / effort.

Go to http://www.paiste.com/artists/ and go to Gordy Knudtson Open/Close technique. About 1/2 way down the page. I think this will finally put to rest any of your worries.Thanks to jammaster for posting it in the One Handed Rolls sticky.

toteman, of course you can do single stroke rolls with the Push pull! It is a double stroke by nature yes, and you could play it RRLLRRLLRRLL but if you "chase" one hand with the other you can still play RLRL!
Watch this video before you say you cant do single stroke rolls with the Push Pull technique!!!

toteman2 · #16 08-10-2005, 11:45 PM

Now the name of the thread is "single stroke rolls", we've gone from explaining that, to the "push pull", to "open close"...IN the intrest of acurate information the "open close" technnique is not the "push pull techinque", they are 2 different animals...If you notice in Gordy's video, he never plays a single stoke roll, only pretty fast 16ths...You can't play a one handed roll using Gordy's meathod, but the "push pull" can acheive this...To play single stroke rolls you have to use the "free stoke", and that only...I've never sceen ANYONE play a single stroke rolls anyother way, and if someone has please show me, because i would love to indulge in new meathods...

vince · #17 09-02-2005, 10:28 PM

Hi !
I worked a lot on my my double-stroke roll and now I need your expierence to work my single-stroke roll. If you have some exercises i could practice on the pad it would be nice !!!
Thanx !

NUTHA JASON · #18 09-03-2005, 12:24 AM

have a look at this thread.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=1933

j

RXFDRUMS · #19 09-04-2005, 02:58 AM

Check out Jeff Queen new book. It seems to have some really good stuff and explains the Moeller stroke very nicely.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/je...o-lessons.html

drumbig · #20 09-15-2005, 11:46 PM

Can any of you explain to me the proper technique for a single stroke roll, is it like the drop pick up technique used in doublestrokes?

centralzeke · #21 09-16-2005, 01:17 AM

It's all about the rebound... bounce of the stick. Think of like dribbing a basketball.

drumbig · #22 09-16-2005, 01:28 AM

right on, i have aready been plaing around with that but cant seem to get any meat behind it especially on the toms. i have been using mor e of my hands an fingers for this technique though, should i get the wrist more involved.

somedrummer · #23 09-16-2005, 02:56 AM

From what I understand, the speed all comes from the fingers. It is physically impossible to make your wrist go fast enough to actually have a true single stroke "roll" using mostly wrist. SO yes, work on your fingers.

Funkydew · #24 09-16-2005, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somedrummer

From what I understand, the speed all comes from the fingers. It is physically impossible to make your wrist go fast enough to actually have a true single stroke "roll" using mostly wrist. SO yes, work on your fingers.

That is not entirely accurate. Buddy played a deadly single stroke roll from his wrists (see the biography, Traps). Fingers are fast, but can only take you to a certain volume level. After that, you must employ the wrists. On the toms, this becomes even clearer. You are well advised to learn the free stroke. A thousand good things will come from that. Promise!

FD

neil drummer · #25 09-16-2005, 07:08 AM

It`s Like anything you do that`s physical,you use bigger muscles for more power.I`ve found that when you close the roll it`s a combination of wrists & finger.Just start it SLOW and concentrate on being relaxed and precise,speed will come naturally.GOOD LUCK

noVIce LegENd · #26 10-06-2005, 06:28 PM

Currently i am practising one hand single stroke roll... can anyone give me an update of the fastest one hand roll... the one i know of will be WFD's 2 hands single stroke roll of 1199 bpm. that means approx... 600 bpm... but i m sure there are many talented fast fingers out there.

BboyShifty1 · #27 10-06-2005, 08:47 PM

Heh but those speed drummers are not in the single stroke for practical reasons. At 1000 BPM, you can hear a pindrop over them playing. Fingers are the best way to go fast, but for dynamics you'll need to learn how to use both wrists and fingers as everyone said.

davodi74 · #28 10-07-2005, 05:42 AM

One handed roll should help a bit with that. It's hard to get though, but you can get some insane speed if you are even with it.

toteman2 · #29 10-07-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noVIce LegENd

Currently i am practising one hand single stroke roll... can anyone give me an update of the fastest one hand roll... the one i know of will be WFD's 2 hands single stroke roll of 1199 bpm. that means approx... 600 bpm... but i m sure there are many talented fast fingers out there.

"one handed single stroke roll"? I've heard of a one handed roll but never a "one handed single stroke roll"...the record you refer to is 1199 single strokes per minute not "bpm", which is just under 300BPM not "600" BPM...The worlds fastest singles is now at 1247...I don't know what the record is for the fastest one handed roll...

I didn't post this to bust balls, just in the intrest of acurate information...I see alot of people get confused with the stokes and BPM concept...

#30 10-07-2005, 11:13 PM

I think you should play single strokes with both fingers and wrist. It is true that you could play a lot faster with just your fingers but you can's play as loud as you can with the wrist. You should check out Buddy Rich single storkes and learn from him.

Here is a practise that should help you boost up your single strokes. I think it is called the Stone Killer.

RRRR LLLL 1min

RRRR RRRR LLLL LLLL 2min

RRRR RRRR RRRR LLLL LLLL LLLL 3min

RRRR RRRR RRRR RRRR LLLL LLLL LLLL LLLL 4min

- practice to a metronome

green earings · #31 10-09-2005, 12:03 AM

can some one show me the fingering for the free stroke roll, ive checked vic firth, couldnt find it, be a great help, chars

toteman2 · #32 10-09-2005, 01:07 AM

The free stoke has nothing to do with the single stroke roll...

finnhiggins · #33 10-09-2005, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toteman2

The free stoke has nothing to do with the single stroke roll...

Yes it does, actually. Quite a lot. The "Freehand technique" as described by Johnny Rabb doesn't - it's an off-the-rim one-handed roll. But the "Free stroke" as described by Dom Famularo (for one, but he's the first guy I heard using the term) is a single full high-to-high rebound stroke. When you play single strokes you should be playing these strokes, hand-to-hand. That's what a good, well-executed single stroke roll is - each hand playing a consistent series of rebound strokes to the same height with even execution between hands, dynamics, tone and timing.

toteman2 · #34 10-09-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnhiggins

Yes it does, actually. Quite a lot. The "Freehand technique" as described by Johnny Rabb doesn't - it's an off-the-rim one-handed roll. But the "Free stroke" as described by Dom Famularo (for one, but he's the first guy I heard using the term) is a single full high-to-high rebound stroke. When you play single strokes you should be playing these strokes, hand-to-hand. That's what a good, well-executed single stroke roll is - each hand playing a consistent series of rebound strokes to the same height with even execution between hands, dynamics, tone and timing.

Right you are sir...And i was thinking of the "freehand techinque" that Rabb demonstrates...The "freestoke" is the exact technique one should use to approach the single stroke roll...mixed up the 2..My mistake...

jonescrusher · #35 10-09-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toteman2

"one handed single stroke roll"? I've heard of a one handed roll but never a "one handed single stroke roll"...the record you refer to is 1199 single strokes per minute not "bpm", which is just under 300BPM not "600" BPM...The worlds fastest singles is now at 1247...I don't know what the record is for the fastest one handed roll...

I didn't post this to bust balls, just in the intrest of acurate information...I see alot of people get confused with the stokes and BPM concept...

Dont want to be the pedant either, but it really isn't set in stone that BPM has to refer to the quarter note pulse to which sixteenths are played. Given that BPM stands for beats per minute, there is no reason why this cant refer to the total number of beats played in the minute on the pad. Each to their own, as londg as it's clarified. Look at Nutha Jason's post on WFD - he's quoting bpm as a minim pulse (sorry, don't know what the american equivalent of minim is....)

noVIce LegENd · #36 10-09-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toteman2

"one handed single stroke roll"? I've heard of a one handed roll but never a "one handed single stroke roll"...the record you refer to is 1199 single strokes per minute not "bpm", which is just under 300BPM not "600" BPM...The worlds fastest singles is now at 1247...I don't know what the record is for the fastest one handed roll...

Hey! Thanks for enlightening me! Haha... I jus realise ppl can only do singles with one hand so it is a bit redundant to put single to the <one hand "single" stroke roll>. Wow!!! 1247single strokes per minute. I really have to put in extra effort to beat it.
I want to train up my speed while i am still young and growing... I am currently training with finger weights on my left index finger and right middle finger ( i assume u all know Y only these 2 fingers)... & i am slowly gaining speed and control each day... anyone got better way of trainning up finger speed???

jonescrusher · #37 10-09-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noVIce LegENd

Hey! Thanks for enlightening me! Haha... I jus realise ppl can only do singles with one hand so it is a bit redundant to put single to the <one hand "single" stroke roll>. Wow!!! 1247single strokes per minute. I really have to put in extra effort to beat it.
I want to train up my speed while i am still young and growing... I am currently training with finger weights on my left index finger and right middle finger ( i assume u all know Y only these 2 fingers)... & i am slowly gaining speed and control each day... anyone got better way of trainning up finger speed???

But you say you've got yourr 'sentididle' to 1300 bpm? Whats the prob with 1247? :)
And why are you only training those two fingers? Did you lose your right index finger in a freak cymbal choking accident? lol (sorry if that's what actually happened...)

toteman2 · #38 10-10-2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonescrusher

Dont want to be the pedant either, but it really isn't set in stone that BPM has to refer to the quarter note pulse to which sixteenths are played. Given that BPM stands for beats per minute, there is no reason why this cant refer to the total number of beats played in the minute on the pad. Each to their own, as londg as it's clarified. Look at Nutha Jason's post on WFD - he's quoting bpm as a minim pulse (sorry, don't know what the american equivalent of minim is....)

I guess it's not set in stone but it would really do no good to say i played 1000 BPM while taking it at 250 BPM...That would confuse most people...It would make sense to say that i played 1000 stokes in a minute at 250 BPM...That makes more sense to me...

jonescrusher · #39 10-10-2005, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toteman2

I guess it's not set in stone but it would really do no good to say i played 1000 BPM while taking it at 250 BPM...That would confuse most people...It would make sense to say that i played 1000 stokes in a minute at 250 BPM...That makes more sense to me...

Agreed :)

...........

NUTHA JASON · #40 10-10-2005, 11:19 AM

Nutha Jason’s routine for fast acceleration and maintenance of single strokes.

Step one – bench marking.

Spend a good half hour with a metronome discovering your current speed ability. Do this by playing 8 strokes for each metronome count. Slowly increase the metronome from 60b/min by an order of 10b/min each time (play each run for at least 20 seconds to be sure) until you can hear errors creeping in(uneven strokes or arms start cramping). At this point drop the speed by 5b/min and write it down.

Step two

Everyday, once you have done some other drumming and are warmed up, set your metronome at your benchmark speed and follow through the list of exercises below. Then simply add 3b/min to the benchmark every day. If you find after a few weeks that you are getting really fast but errors are creeping in again, only increase the setting by 1b/min, or hold the same setting for a few days. Use your best judgement in these cases. If it still seems to be locking up and erroneous, drop the speed by 10b/min for a few weeks.

Follow this sequence of 28 exercises through without stopping:

ex1 | ex2 | ex3 | ex3 |

ex4 | ex4 | ex4 | ex4 |

ex5 | ex5 | ex5 | ex5 |

ex3 | ex6 | ex6 | ex6 |

ex7 | ex7 | ex7 | ex7 |

ex2 | ex3 | ex8 | ex8 |

ex8 | ex 8| ex3 | ex9 |

here are the exercises tabbed. remember the metronome in 4/4 falls on the numbered beats. you fill out the space in between with seven strokes.

This will produce excellent results and meets drummers of all skills wherever they are. So give it a try.

j