Bearing edge recommendations

So I have my old acoustic kit from the early 90's: my Tama Rockstar DX kit. Its a big kit with big power toms, long lugs, black wrap and all the late 80's glory a kit from that day had. Needless to say, its getting a bit dated and I'm looking to give it a refresh. Considering this kit has basically no re-sale on the used market, it makes a great project kit that I can tinker with and make a bit more "mine".

So besides aesthetic improvements like new wrap and staining the interiors of the drums, a couple of the drums have nicked up bearing edges. I definitely want to get these re-cut but I am looking for peoples thoughts on what kind of bearing edge would best suit this kit.

For starters, here is some detail about the shell construction of the Tama Rockstar from 1993. It is a 9 ply shell made up of Philippine Mahogany with the inner ply being basswood. It is 5/16" thick and is wrapped with a delmar wrap, which has surprisingly held up quite well. Its bearing edges look to be a 45 degree inner cut for the first 5 plies with a 45 degree outer cut to the outer 2 and a 2 ply sanded round over between. Overall, I find that the drums sound average.

Generally I find this kit to not have much tuning range to it. Its is great at low to mid low tunings, but if you tune a bit higher you get a tinny and choked sound. I have recently purchased some Evans G2 clears with Genera Resonants and it is helping to round out the tone of the drums and give a bit more range, but overall I don't think it can really offer much range in its current state.

What I would like to achieve is to have a nice round tone out of the drum, a bit softer attack, and less tinny overtones. I would like the drums to speak fully and not feel choked if they are tuned a bit tighter. I basically want a more open tone to the drums and a wider tuning range. Again, heads have helped a bit, but since I am going to the effort of re-cutting bearing edges, I might as well look in to finding the best edge to achieve this.

The sizes of drums that will get re-cut are 8x8, 10x10, 11x12, 12x13, 13x14, 16x16, 16x18. I have not decided if I want to change the bass drum bearing edges or not and the snare is steel shelled, so no new edges on that one.

Anyone have thoughts on an edge that could work well for this kit?

I think the 30-degree rounded edge they put on the Ludwig Club Dates would work to give you what you want. A bit warmer, and rounder - which was the domain of vintage drums. I know that bearing edge distinction works well on my Pearl Reference Pure kit - my 12" rack tom has the standard 45-degree cut bearing edge, and it's pretty cutting. My floor toms start to flatten out and they become thunderous. So maybe you should cut your bearing edges like that - keep the 45-degree edge on your smaller toms, and as you get bigger, flatten them out a bit.

I thought about that as well Bo. I guess I didnt want to over complicate the process by using multiple edges, but its certainly a possability.

The 30 degree you are thinking about is the shallow 30 degree like what Gretsch uses, right? Not the really steep 60 degree that is sometimes called a 30 degree?

Tommy_D said:

I thought about that as well Bo. I guess I didnt want to over complicate the process by using multiple edges, but its certainly a possability.

The 30 degree you are thinking about is the shallow 30 degree like what Gretsch uses, right? Not the really steep 60 degree that is sometimes called a 30 degree?

Click to expand...

Yeah, the fatter one. I just figured if you were going to take them to a guy who really knows how to cut the edges, maybe experimenting with different edges would be a cool thing

Hmm, since my edges are currently 45 degrees, I would have to have a lot of material removed to try and cut a 30 degree edge on the drums, no?

My current edges are basically this:



Anyway, I have been doing a lot of searching around on ghostnote and seeing what people are doing and its starting to sound like I may want a 45 degree inner edge with a roundover as the countercut. I am not sure exactly where the two should intersect within the width of the shell, but I'm thinking the roundover will give greater head/shell contact to reduce attack and add more shell body/tone in to the sound and in turn reduce overtones. The 45 degree inner cut will help the drum sound a bit more open than a 30 degree cut and should allow the head to sustain long enough without droning on and on. These drums can really drone on and on because they are so deep.

Something like this:


Its a bit of a vintage vibe without going overboard in to a full fledged vintage roundover cut.

Thoughts anyone?

The bottom pic is similar to my meridian maples. Love those drums, sound great even with my mediocre tuning. I'd say that edge can do it all. It's warm, little punchy, round, and with a fairly good tuning range.

45 degree/30 degree/60 degree inner cuts = irrelevant. Don't believe the marketing hype as the inner cut angle makes absolutely no difference to the drum's performance. The only portions of the bearing edge that matter are the areas actually interfacing with the head. 30 degree/45 degree, etc, have morphed into a designation that generically refers to peak sharpness, & has it's roots in a time when there was little control over peak radii.

Keep your 45 degree inner cut, go for a near half round over for the outside cut, then on the batter edge, graduate the radii from sharper to more rounded as the drums become bigger. On the reso head side, use the same form, but keep the radii fairly sharp across all sizes with the exception of the bass drum. On the bass drum, I suggest very generous radii both sides & shoot for as unmuffled as you can with head selection.

TBH, appropriate bearing edges will help, but the biggest choke contributors & higher overtone culprits are the drum depths & shell construction. The deeper the drum, the further away the resultant tone becomes from a default fundamental. That's fine if the shell construction can "manage" those overtones, but unfortunately, your shells can't. That said, correct edge forms aligned with good heads & appropriate tuning will improve the situation considerably.

Good luck!

What Andy says about the inner cut is fact. How many ways can you market the same old stuff. Edges may help bring those old tubs to life, but you also may be disappointed. The edges are only but a small piece of the puzzle. Usually either a shell has good qualities or it doesn't, case in point. My Mahogany kit I recently built is a short stack 10,12,14,15 tom kit. They all sound great but the 14 if I had to criticize is the weaker of the 4 toms, the 15 is god like, so I thought I would re check my edges. To my surprise, the 14 was crisp and clean and basically flawless. The 15 however, the best sounding drum of the bunch, had a couple little bumps on the inner cut and was overall not my best edge ever. I posted this elsewhere on my builders forum, and that was the consensus also, the drum either has it or it doesn't.

To be fair though, a drum is a combination of wood selection, thickness of the shell makes a difference, re-ringed or not, size of the ring, species of the ring, depth of the shell, is all the wood from the kit from the same tree or even is it closely matched with density, cut, grain openness etc. hoop choice and heads ......so many things can vary your sound and changing one thing in relation to another gives us a huge number of variations. So my point being, don't stress too much on the edges only, cause if your starting with a weaker shell composition, it could just end of in a futile effort anyhow. But a good clean up on the edges, a fresh cut, at least, it can't hurt and may help, so go for it. I also like the 45 inner and a quarter round outer as Andy suggested.

So I tinkered around in CAD to get the most accuracy I could for the shape of the edges and here is what I came up with based on Andy's suggestions:



So basically its a 3/16" radius roundover back cut that will vary in its depth based on the size of the drum shell and if its a batter vs. a resonant head. The 45 degree inner cut is made to work best with the roundover depending on the shell size and batter vs resonant. The apex of the bearing edge will be as sharp as it can be for the resonant head and will be slightly broader for batter of the rack toms and will be sanded round for the floor toms and bass drum. The Bass drum resonant is a double roundover or "bassball bat" edge to maximize head to shell contact.

Thoughts? Yay or Nay?

uniongoon said:

Edges may help bring those old tubs to life, but you also may be disappointed.

To be fair though, a drum is a combination of wood selection, thickness of the shell makes a difference, re-ringed or not, size of the ring, species of the ring, depth of the shell, is all the wood from the kit from the same tree or even is it closely matched with density, cut, grain openness etc. hoop choice and heads ......so many things can vary your sound and changing one thing in relation to another gives us a huge number of variations. So my point being, don't stress too much on the edges only, cause if your starting with a weaker shell composition, it could just end of in a futile effort anyhow. But a good clean up on the edges, a fresh cut, at least, it can't hurt and may help, so go for it. I also like the 45 inner and a quarter round outer as Andy suggested.

Click to expand...

Oh, I know I may be underwhelmed, or very disappointed, with the end result, but what do I have to lose? This kit, while it may be "cherished" as my fist kit, is not really that good. I know it was made with economy in mind out of some of the cheapest wood money can buy. Honestly, I could put it up for sale and maybe get $200 for all of it if I'm lucky.

One thing I do know is that I have had the kit for 20 years and it has never fully made me happy with its sound. They are harsh and brutish sounding drums. Maybe that's the power tom sizes, maybe its the shell construction, maybe its the bearing edges, head choice, the hardware on the kit, or all of it combined to make this sound. Right now, I have the chance to try to make a change in this kit to remove that brutish and harsh sound. I know I don't want to cut the shells down because that would require me buying new hardware (this kit has one piece long lugs). Its not worth it for this kit. I don't want to buy new rims because again, its not worth it for this kit (thats a lot of rims to buy). So that leaves me with bearing edges and heads to try to make this kit a bit warmer and more rounded in its tone. If it doesn't work, I still have a kit that I'm not fully happy with its sound, and I can always put it up for sale and hopefully get $200 for. If anything, I can call this a learning experience and maybe it will give me more incite in to what to look for in the next kit I buy.

I owned one of these kits for a while (1 inner ply beech and 8 ply mahogany)
and they are great kits for the money. When I mounted the rack toms on cymbal stands i found the toms sounded way more open than mounting on the bass drum they just sounded more open. Furthermore, I liked the way they sounded with remo coated ambassador/g1 coated etc. I had a 10,13,16,22.

Before you recut any edges,try just changing the heads to coated ambassadors for the batter and clears for the reso,or G 1's..Tune them up ,and just listen.Rockstars with the 9 ply laun /beech ply layup are pretty decent sounding drums,and that steel snare,punches way above it's weight class.BTW...that wrap isn't Delmar if it's a solid color.Those wraps come in roll form,as oppose to sheets 24x54 in size.

Steve B

Tommy_D said:

Oh, I know I may be underwhelmed, or very disappointed, with the end result, but what do I have to lose? This kit, while it may be "cherished" as my fist kit, is not really that good. I know it was made with economy in mind out of some of the cheapest wood money can buy. Honestly, I could put it up for sale and maybe get $200 for all of it if I'm lucky.

One thing I do know is that I have had the kit for 20 years and it has never fully made me happy with its sound. They are harsh and brutish sounding drums. Maybe that's the power tom sizes, maybe its the shell construction, maybe its the bearing edges, head choice, the hardware on the kit, or all of it combined to make this sound. Right now, I have the chance to try to make a change in this kit to remove that brutish and harsh sound. I know I don't want to cut the shells down because that would require me buying new hardware (this kit has one piece long lugs). Its not worth it for this kit. I don't want to buy new rims because again, its not worth it for this kit (thats a lot of rims to buy). So that leaves me with bearing edges and heads to try to make this kit a bit warmer and more rounded in its tone. If it doesn't work, I still have a kit that I'm not fully happy with its sound, and I can always put it up for sale and hopefully get $200 for. If anything, I can call this a learning experience and maybe it will give me more incite in to what to look for in the next kit I buy.

Click to expand...

I agree with you. You have the right attitude and the right idea.

.

Tama's catalogs are a bit goofy with one year saying they used basswood and the next saying they use beech on the interiors. In the end I don't think it matters much to the drum's sound. Mine are most definitely basswood interiors. I only have two of the drums on hand at the moment and they have been sanded, stained, and tung oiled on the interiors. Both need re-cut bearing edges as the previous owner dented the hell out of them with their sticks. So new edges are happening no matter what.

I have some samples coming my way for new wraps. I'm not sure when they may arrive, but I'm excited to put a different finish on the exterior of this kit. The all black look really dates the kit. The long lugs do as well, but again, its not worth it to swap out hardware so that stays.

Tommy_D said:

So I tinkered around in CAD to get the most accuracy I could for the shape of the edges and here is what I came up with based on Andy's suggestions:

So basically its a 3/16" radius roundover back cut that will vary in its depth based on the size of the drum shell and if its a batter vs. a resonant head. The 45 degree inner cut is made to work best with the roundover depending on the shell size and batter vs resonant. The apex of the bearing edge will be as sharp as it can be for the resonant head and will be slightly broader for batter of the rack toms and will be sanded round for the floor toms and bass drum. The Bass drum resonant is a double roundover or "bassball bat" edge to maximize head to shell contact.

Thoughts? Yay or Nay?

Click to expand...

I think you have it about right, except maybe the bass drum edges. Full round over is fine if you want to really dry out the drum. For most modern music forms, a degree of "wetness" is desirable. Personally, I'd go for a half round over but with a radius on the peak of about 2mm (that's fairly rounded).

Driving a lot of shell vibration into your shells is a good thing if the shells can respond by resonating. Especially with your full length lugs, aligned to the shell construction plus very short note afforded by basswood, the best you can hope for is to iron out some of those errant high overtones. Keeping existing depth, plus the construction type, your drums will always feature a diminished fundamental, so warming up the attack & featuring the natural excess of lower overtones is your best shot at getting a more pleasing tone from the drums. I'd shoot for coated heads too. Anything decent - 14mil two ply batter over 10mil single ply redo should tame things nicely without killing them completely. Avoid fancy pre muffled heads with "control rings" or whatever if you're cutting the edges as described.

keep it simple said:

I think you have it about right, except maybe the bass drum edges. Full round over is fine if you want to really dry out the drum. For most modern music forms, a degree of "wetness" is desirable. Personally, I'd go for a half round over but with a radius on the peak of about 2mm (that's fairly rounded).

Click to expand...

So, for the resonant side of the bass drum you are thinking I should go with something similar to the batter side of the bass drum/floor toms? Or are you saying I should go with something like the resonant side for the toms, but sand off the sharp edge over two plys (2mm).

Tommy_D said:

So, for the resonant side of the bass drum you are thinking I should go with something similar to the batter side of the bass drum/floor toms? Or are you saying I should go with something like the resonant side for the toms, but sand off the sharp edge over two plys (2mm).

Click to expand...

More the form of the batter side of the larger toms/floor toms, & yes, round off to R2. Personally, I'd do that for both batter & resonant side of the bass drum, but that's your call.

keep it simple said:

More the form of the batter side of the larger toms/floor toms, & yes, round off to R2. Personally, I'd do that for both batter & resonant side of the bass drum, but that's your call.

Click to expand...

I'm just spit balling here, so a drum builder's advise is far better than what I could come up with. I don't run any internal muffling in my bass drums, but I do use Powerstroke 3's on both sides of the drum. There isn't much ring to them, but it doesn't sound like a lot of thump either. I could always "wet" the sound on the bass drum with a different beater material as well. I currently use felt beaters, but a rubber or wood beater could add a bit more click to the attack.

I had just read a lot of positive reviews of bassball bat edges for bass drum reso sides and thought I would pitch the idea.

Tommy_D said:

I'm just spit balling here, so a drum builder's advise is far better than what I could come up with. I don't run any internal muffling in my bass drums, but I do use Powerstroke 3's on both sides of the drum. There isn't much ring to them, but it doesn't sound like a lot of thump either. I could always "wet" the sound on the bass drum with a different beater material as well. I currently use felt beaters, but a rubber or wood beater could add a bit more click to the attack.

I had just read a lot of positive reviews of bassball bat edges for bass drum reso sides and thought I would pitch the idea.

Click to expand...

Baseball bat edges work well when the shell is of a more resonant form, but on a shell that's geared more towards projection, a bit more "edge" will give you options. I'd certainly consider a much lighter/less muffled head for the bass drum reso. Having a dead redo head only really starts to work at higher tunings on a deep bass drum. With deeper drums, you're already moving a lot of air mass. Better to allow the reso to respond more readily with a lighter head, but not too light. Evans EQ3 is a nice compromise. Tune up a fair bit higher than the batter for good bottom end response.