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  #1  
Old 05-22-2014, 08:30 PM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Sonor Designer tuning

Hi all, starting to get used to the super shallow 10 & 12 rack toms.

Heres a video of the 8", 10", 12" 14" and 16" toms from behind the kit and in front of the kit. I didn't have the 15" set up as I was changing the head. Shells tuned by ear then with a tunebot to their recommended intervals / max resonance frequencies.

Comments / opinions welcome. Looking for feedback as to what you think

Thanks!

http://vimeo.com/96100608

http://vimeo.com/96100609
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Last edited by Power Tom; 05-22-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

I just have my krappy laptop speakers..... but those are defnitely coming through in a good way, which is surprising as I don't get great quality through these.

This dude below did only an overhead I believe and has them cranked ( in a good way ), .. but demonstrates the sensitivity and potential IMO .... I think I showed you this before :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0RVRn-Ks4
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

The rack toms sound great but I would tweak the floor toms up just a bit to get away from that growl sound they're making. I know it's nice to have them low but you'll prefer the cleanness soon enough. I tune the reso a bit tighter than the batter.
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
The rack toms sound great but I would tweak the floor toms up just a bit to get away from that growl sound they're making. I know it's nice to have them low but you'll prefer the cleanness soon enough. I tune the reso a bit tighter than the batter.
Yes, I agree. Racks= excellent. Floors= Bring 'em up!
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:08 PM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

lol, thanks guys. Are you all jazz boppers or something?;)

Funny cos standing next to the 14, it's sounds high to me. The 16 is a bit low because I also have a 15 to contend with which is on the left currently.

100% consistent feedback this far - bring up those floors!

I shall do it and post the results for further critique

Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

first, get rid of the Sonor generic heads. Then throw away the tunebot. If the tunebot tells you that your drums, especially the floor toms are tuned, well, they are not. you could buy 6, $15.00 drum heads with what the tunebot costs. I believe in using my ears and those videos just reinforce my opinion of tunebot. sorry to be so brash but I hate those things and all of the iPhone drum tuners as well. You have a great set of drums and it's a shame to have them sound like that.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by Power Tom View Post
lol, thanks guys. Are you all jazz boppers or something?;)
I'm hearing everything I expect to hear. The difference in fundamental delivery between the standard depth 8" & the shallow depth 10". Also the same difference between the shallow 12" & deeper floor toms. The kit isn't singing as a kit. There's 3 different flavours going on there, & you'll do well to manage them into a coherent tom set.

The 10" & 12" are sounding pretty good. The 8" is just being a normal 8" that struggles with shell resonance. The two floors sound horrible. Sorry to be harsh, but I just say it as I hear it. For deep floors, the tuning is all wrong. Forget the advice from Tunebot. It's a handy tool to check even lug tuning & remembering preferred tunings, but it's ears that rule the day.

When Tunebot offers tuning for "maximum resonance", what they're actually offering is tuning for maximum head sustain. Two very different things. Certainly with floor toms, maximum head sustain rarely delivers a rich tone. The heads may ring for days, but the tone of the drum isn't very satisfying. There's no body.

Without changing the pitch you prefer, try bringing the reso heads up in tension whilst lowering the top head tension. Sometimes, even up to 1 octave apart gets the job done, but it depends on how the drum reacts. You'll reach a point where the drum is excited by the input, & at that point, the drum will deliver so much more. Low is good - flat & flappy isn't.

Good luck, & I hope you take my advice in the spirit it's offered :)
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

Andy, I think the main problem is the floor tom batters are extremely loose. You can see them wave when hit. They need to be tightened as well for my taste. Thats why I say tune the drum to the drum and not to a electronic gimmick
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Andy, I think the main problem is the floor tom batters are extremely loose. You can see them wave when hit. They need to be tightened as well for my taste. Thats why I say tune the drum to the drum and not to a electronic gimmick
I agree Grunt, they are loose, but that can work well with a much tighter reso. There's just no body in the sound. You can keep super low tuning by cranking the reso right up, but with both batter & reso at the same pitch, the heads are just flapping around, & there's no energy exciting the drum.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

I bet those floor toms sound good in person, but they may start lacking in tone as you get further away. If you intend to play this kit at home, you should obviously tune it for optimal sound behind the kit. Also, don't worry about having the 15" match with the 14" and 16", it's not going to work very well anyway.

Well, my opinion is that everything needs to come up at LEAST a full note.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2014, 11:44 PM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
first, get rid of the Sonor generic heads. Then throw away the tunebot. If the tunebot tells you that your drums, especially the floor toms are tuned, well, they are not. you could buy 6, $15.00 drum heads with what the tunebot costs. I believe in using my ears and those videos just reinforce my opinion of tunebot. sorry to be so brash but I hate those things and all of the iPhone drum tuners as well. You have a great set of drums and it's a shame to have them sound like that.
Not sure why you say ditch the generic heads? They are only on the 8" and everyone knows that 8" toms dont resonate, so single plus are common. Plus the genetics ARE Remo ambassadors. Se look, weight, feel and the factory confirmed it.

As for tuning, perhaps you misunderstood or I didn't clarify what I was up to. The tunebot was only for consistency as I experimented with different heads, i.e. getting the lugs and not the same each time and QUICKLY. I have 6 toms!! I also only used the tunebot for intervals to get consistency between the 6. I seat and initially tune by ear. Interestingly, when I got the bot and checked my lug turnings, they were all equal with each other. I don't need the filter function, so I'm happy with my ability to tune. Once a head is resonating equally and consistently, the rest is personal preference. Or are you saying you think they are OUT of tune?

I tuned all if them evenly as a starting point. From here I will experiment with different flavours
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

No I'm not commenting on the tuning other than your first post to me sounded as if you were confused on the sound and what it would take to get it better. Most brand heads may be Remo or Evans but to me far from the normal fare. I did go back and listen again and I would take more time getting the three rack toms more in tune with each other.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

That 8" sounds great to me ! The 10 and 12 I thought would be a bitch to get to sing..... but those are sounding really good.
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Old 05-24-2014, 12:03 AM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I'm hearing everything I expect to hear. The difference in fundamental delivery between the standard depth 8" & the shallow depth 10". Also the same difference between the shallow 12" & deeper floor toms. The kit isn't singing as a kit. There's 3 different flavours going on there, & you'll do well to manage them into a coherent tom set.

The 10" & 12" are sounding pretty good. The 8" is just being a normal 8" that struggles with shell resonance. The two floors sound horrible. Sorry to be harsh, but I just say it as I hear it. For deep floors, the tuning is all wrong. Forget the advice from Tunebot. It's a handy tool to check even lug tuning & remembering preferred tunings, but it's ears that rule the day.

When Tunebot offers tuning for "maximum resonance", what they're actually offering is tuning for maximum head sustain. Two very different things. Certainly with floor toms, maximum head sustain rarely delivers a rich tone. The heads may ring for days, but the tone of the drum isn't very satisfying. There's no body.

Without changing the pitch you prefer, try bringing the reso heads up in tension whilst lowering the top head tension. Sometimes, even up to 1 octave apart gets the job done, but it depends on how the drum reacts. You'll reach a point where the drum is excited by the input, & at that point, the drum will deliver so much more. Low is good - flat & flappy isn't.

Good luck, & I hope you take my advice in the spirit it's offered :)
Pretty much what I expected and what I was thinking. I know you can tune well, Ive heard your toms:)

Again, I probably didn't position the point of the tunebot. I have 6 toms that I wanted to try with Evans & Remo, clear and coated single and double ply heads. I changed out over 30 heads in a couple of days, so I needed a consistent baseline. I agree with you they are good to check what you have done and to remember your settings.

I think the iPhone might be defeating the purpose of the exercise. The floors aren't coming across well at all. However, at least everyone agrees they need to come up. Ill bring the resos up first and see what that does (BY EAR GRUNTERSDAD:) )
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Old 05-24-2014, 12:05 AM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by Artstar View Post
That 8" sounds great to me ! The 10 and 12 I thought would be a bitch to get to sing..... but those are sounding really good.
Yeah, took some effort. You were spot on about the issues with those. I dropped the 8" like you suggested and it fits with the other two a bit better now. It will be interesting to see how coated heads will affect the coercion of the whole kit. Im thinking it will improve it.
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  #16  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:54 PM
Power Tom Power Tom is offline
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

OK, do the floor toms sound any better to you guys now? Headed in the right direction?

Stil a crappy iphone. Lots more bowww and harmonic distortion than in real life https://vimeo.com/96576252
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  #17  
Old 05-27-2014, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Sonor Designer tuning

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Originally Posted by Power Tom View Post
OK, do the floor toms sound any better to you guys now? Headed in the right direction?

Stil a crappy iphone. Lots more bowww and harmonic distortion than in real life https://vimeo.com/96576252
I like them more now! Would be nice to hear the whole kit.
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