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  #81  
Old 08-17-2017, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
More complete and total nonsense. But I forget who I'm talking to... The guy who already solved digital piracy! Perhaps home inkjet printers are part of that master plan, too?
It's almost as if DSOP has no idea what he's talking about. It's really strange.
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  #82  
Old 08-17-2017, 08:54 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

For me, the notion that we would apply property rights to an intellectual/imaginary creation, to be bought/sold for imaginary money, and accuse nonparticipants of maritime violations....

The whole thing just reeks of moo doo.

Note: I think I might be the only one here that has had my 2" master reels 'literally' stolen by a record company.
  #83  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by Mike Stand View Post
Despite the childish one-upmanship going on between Todd Bishop and DrWatso, I think the the two of them are making good points.
I'm debating with myself if I should continue, but at this point it seems like we're repeating ourselves. I didn't find his commentary childish, unlike the OP. Heated at times maybe, but at least no name calling or mud slinging.

Quote:
DrWatso may be right about things changing and people must adapt. I do feel however that his embracing of the "new" is a little too naive and even leans towards a kind of resignation in the face of changes that aren't necessarily all good. You do have to adapt to change, but that doesn't mean you have to accept all of it unquestioningly and take it lying down. Like the saying goes "be the change you want to see". It would be equally valid to say "don't be the change you don't want to see (fight back!)".
See, like I said, it's fine to "fight back" when it's truly worthy, and I respect that other people feel that way, the issue is I just can't identify with that mind-set. Right now, the internet is completely turning retail on it's head. The way of life for a lot more people than just artists or musicians is changing, and I'm sorry guys, but unless we decide to give the government more power and ability to meddle with the markets and commerce to a very invasive level, this won't change. The guy who worked his ass off to own his own retail shop only to later have it be an invalid business model because literally everyone has the ability to shop the entire world for his products at the very lowest price and nobody can control the spread of that information. It sucks for a lot of people who can't adapt to new ways of making money, but they will be left behind.

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Platform providers (big tech companies) are clearly profiteering on a grand scale from the use of content created by others.
Of course. They created a platform everyone wants to use. They are profiting from the act of providing the content platform and it's monetary workings. Such open platforms are beautiful free things for humanity and the fact that people steal stuff is not google's fault or responsibility, in my opinion. I feel google should not be enabling individual users to collect checks from the content, but don't begrudge them profit from this ridiculous huge creative media sharing platform. For most of youtube's existence, it wasn't so easy to just upload someone else's work and then personally profit.

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We all know who these companies are, and we know how much they are worth. I may not be tech savvy, but I've got enough common sense to know that when a person or company or other entity becomes so rich and powerful, it creates imbalances. An imbalance favourable to them and unfavourable to some others.
I keep trying to figure out if this is an anti-monopoly/anti-free-market thread or anti piracy thread. Personally, I think the very nature of our capitalist system as we've built it is what creates these power spheres. We actively encourage cut-throat competition until one day we decide that it's gone too far and we need some regulations to fix it.

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And I certainly don't accept that the companies in question are powerless to do anything. Rather, it would seem obvious that it's not in their interest to change things.
Both points are true the way I see it. First, as the system is, any realistic method for "doing anything" so that no copyrighted content was ever shared would literally break the very idea of an open content upload and sharing site. As I said, every minute, there's 300 new hours of content uploaded and damn near none of it fits into nice little category boxes of who owns what let alone how to track that or keep the records straight for this much data. How can you possibly analyze that content in a meaningful way to prevent sharing data that shouldn't be shared? Keep in mind, as you're trying to work out how to do that, there's a ton more people working out how to beat your idea.

Quote:
Also, the idea that a company can profit immensely from a business based in "virtual reality" but at the same time not be held responsible for what happens on this "virtual platform" is completely abhorrent. Take the money = take the responsibility.
You expect google to take responsibility for all the content they host? So if non-copyrighted pro-suicide material is uploaded, google knows nothing about it, and someone kills themselves are they responsible? Where does this slippery slope end? That's just a minor suggestion. There's shit on youtube and related type content sites that shouldn't even exist in reality, buy people are messed up. It's not google's fault, they really do make huge attempts to clean the content and even have platforms designed with licensing in mind. Heck, I pay google about $120 a year for my streaming services with them. Money makes it back to publishing companies managing the copyrights and hopefully eventually artists, but as I said, I think the idea of an artist getting significant monetary pay simply for someone hearing or seeing their stuff is not going to work much longer. The business models have to change because the content management companies and copyright firms do not control the spread of the data. The internet has taken that control for nearly all intents and purposes.

Quote:
I am a little taken aback at suggestions that artists have to adapt and find new ways of earning their keep. What does that mean? That their art is no longer a valid way of earning money? It's simply a perversion when a musician has to sell "merchandise" because the actual art they are producing no longer has any meaningful value and can't be protected.
This is not going to be a popular comment, but as an abstract idea, I think the very attitude towards these types of things has changed. All the fault of the evil internet, again. Using music as the example, in the past, being a musician, learning the craft, getting the stuff, producing the songs and recording them well, making media for consumption of these productions, then distributing that nation or world wide was difficult...... Here's the thing, though... It's not anymore.

The net have given these powers to almost everyone and a lot of the "magic" the recording industry once held is not so magical anymore. The value of these end-creations actually has gone down, because the knowledge, equipment, access and distribution is all a completely different, much much more easily breached thing. As another analogy, imagine I'm a decent knife maker who spent my whole life honing the craft and until recently, I've been paid handsomely for my fine skills and productions. But last week I started losing customers. I come to find out that there are tons of outlets online who are using advanced 3d print technologies to define, create, and distribute the product much cheaper, quicker, with very little effort and at a high rate of precision.

As a knife maker in this hypothetical, the value of my beloved craft was just decreased and I had absolutely no say in the matter, and it didn't matter how upset it made me or how unfair it felt. It was (hypothetical) reality. I might even be better at making knives, (or music) but that's often largely irrelevant to what consumers equate with "value".

I think part of the disconnect is that most people don't believe the end result of our efforts has as much value as we believe it has, and without the recording industry controlling all the power anymore, they can't effectively force their own idea of value for the product. The transfer of our arrangement of 1's and 0's simply will not hold as much value for today's consumer as a t-shirt, or CD, or live show.

Hopefully that made sense... To me that last idea is a bit of an abstraction from the issue of piracy and digital sharing platforms, but obviously related to the attitudes involved.
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  #84  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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You expect google to take responsibility for all the content they host?
Yes, I do. Aren't newspapers liable for what they print? If Google doesn't have the resources to vet their content, they should just close up shop.
  #85  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I'm debating with myself if I should continue,
Please don't. It's obvious that you feel that musicians are lazy and deserve to be taken advantage of.
  #86  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
As I thought, you can't even start to explain it to me. Just the fact you think piracy of data can be dealt with in any sort of simple fashion honestly leads me back to thinking you don't really understand this.
I do understand it. I've been developing software for over two decades. I have worked for the largest record company on Earth as a software developer. I have worked as a recording engineer back when tape was the only storage medium. I have been a member of bands signed to major and independent record labels. I have toured across North America, both as a drummer and also as a stage technician. I have released self produced recordings. I have just today accepted a position as a software developer for the newest global Performing Rights Organization.

My background speaks for itself.

Although the solution is simple, its implementation requires the participation and buy-in of MANY industries. Therein lies the rub.

Regardless, more music is being listened to than at any time in history. More money is being generated from the enjoyment of music than at any time in history. Less of that money is going to the people responsible for that music than at any time in history. More information is controlled by fewer entities than at any time in history. This last point is H U G E, and needs to be addressed ASAP. As for the wealth from art, its fair distribution to creators can be achieved in a heartbeat.
  #87  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
Yes, I do. Aren't newspapers liable for what they print?
You have a hard time comprehending the differences between news journalism and user-fed content platforms, eh?

Quote:
If Google doesn't have the resources to vet their content, they should just close up shop.
Or you could just sell them your magic software that everyone here is very sure actually exists and then google wouldn't have to "close up shop".
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  #88  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
I do understand it. I've been developing software for over two decades. I have worked for the largest record company on Earth as a software developer. I have worked as a recording engineer back when tape was the only storage medium. I have been a member of bands signed to major and independent record labels. I have toured across North America, both as a drummer and also as a stage technician. I have released self produced recordings. I have just today accepted a position as a software developer for the newest global Performing Rights Organization.

My background speaks for itself.

Although the solution is simple, its implementation requires the participation and buy-in of MANY industries. Therein lies the rub.

Regardless, more music is being listened to than at any time in history. More money is being generated from the enjoyment of music than at any time in history. Less of that money is going to the people responsible for that music than at any time in history. More information is controlled by fewer entities than at any time in history. This last point is H U G E, and needs to be addressed ASAP. As for the wealth from art, its fair distribution to creators can be achieved in a heartbeat.
Still waiting for any sort of substance regarding your magic software. Vague statements like "it requires the buy in from a lot of industries" don't help, nor do they actually hint at any validity to your claim. You keep saying it's super simple, so just lay out the frame-work.
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  #89  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
It doesn't matter how you dress it, that statement was still the statement of a dickhead.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Might be wrong, but I took that exchange as having a joking tone. Hard to read sarcasm sometimes.
My statement was pure sarcasm, fueled by exhaustion and self loathing as I realized trying to bring up that some people are already raised in these norms of piracy and what not, would ultimately either fall on deaf ears, or end up at the same point that always gets brought up outside the forum in real life.

I apologize that I am not capable of properly expressing sarcasm online. And I apologize I was arguing with myself. After waking up, I realized how dumb I sounded.
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  #90  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Still waiting for any sort of substance regarding your magic software. Vague statements like "it requires the buy in from a lot of industries" don't help, nor do they actually hint at any validity to your claim. You keep saying it's super simple, so just lay out the frame-work.
As someone that works in digital commerce, I can state without a doubt that it is complete and utter bullocks.

But hey, my opinion is worthless, having already sold out in 2006.
  #91  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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just lay out the frame-work.
No point in that. The amount of money and resources that are behind keeping things as they are would prevent it from ever happening. It would require changes to ALL hardware that is used to play audio files. Remember when Digital Audio Tape recorders were first introduced? Well, that didn't go far enough.

The easier approach is to get the money that is already being generated from music to its rightful creators.
  #92  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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No point in that.
Riiiiiight. I'm very certain you're totally full of it at this point.

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The amount of money and resources that are behind keeping things as they are would prevent it from ever happening.
Wrong. The lack of actual power by the old recording and distro industry to control any of this is what will prevent that from ever happening. They can't strong arm us anymore because if they get out of line we just cut them from the picture.

Quote:
It would require changes to ALL hardware that is used to play audio files.
Lucky for consumers, thanks to our new-found power of information exchange, there is no way in hell idiot organizations could ever force something like this on us now. Literally impossible. Also, you're completely dreaming if you think that would actually stop ANYONE. You sound like those keurig idiots encoding their capsules to only work on their similarly encoded machines. Not only was that a dumb idea, consumers refused to support it, and the market beat the technology extremely quickly. Just. like. it. always. will.

We're not going to support systems that put the recording industry idiots back in control. It was a shit system that pushed it's own selection of crap music as they pleased and was pretty much just as bad about paying artists, especially smaller ones who weren't as high on their corporate sales radar. This system can and would be used for unfair promotion and censorship as well as lock outs for anyone who wants to have media that doesn't fit the system or works with other systems.

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The easier approach is to get the money that is already being generated from music to its rightful creators.
There's nothing easy about it. It's the largest game of whack-a-mole ever and it cannot be won. Every millisecond new music and art and content is created, as soon as it exists, there exists the possibility that it will be pirated or copied or performed. There's no system in the world that can watch this much information in this type of micro-scale required to pay every creator for their creations consumption. At best, your ideas might give the recording industry back some power to push their own bullshit and ignore whatever else they like. Just like keurig was trying to do.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...coffee-pod-drm

https://smallbiztrends.com/2015/01/d...2-0-hacks.html

You're wasting your time developing another hardware style drm like that. We won't get on board, and you have absolutely no way of forcing it, because if you get out of line like they did, you'll suffer and we will still get the content we want with or without you.
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  #93  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
As someone that works in digital commerce, I can state without a doubt that it is complete and utter bullocks.

But hey, my opinion is worthless, having already sold out in 2006.
Being the simpleton that I am, I'm going to have to rely on my intuition again.

I've taken Todd's and DSOP's side in this but I'll admit that I'm being slightly swayed by the arguments of people who seem to have actual intricate knowledge of how all this stuff works.

I understand the principle of "internet freedom" and that it is apparently more than challenging to regulate this sphere, and also a difficuly legal conundrum.

I can only defer to greater minds when it comes to this and accept their insight. However, I think that this thread has descended into trivial (to a simpleton like me) techno-babble about what is and what is not currently possible in terms of software, hardware, mild-ware, here a ware, there a ware, everywhere a ware ware.

Can we try and get to the fundamental principle of what we seem to be discussing instead of the tit-for-tat "I have been a spaceship photon torpedo launch software programmer since before the Titanic sank, so I'm right".

In my mind, the root issue we are adressing, or should be, as a starting point, is this:

Is it right that some companies, through clever and advanced technological developements, should be able to capitalise in an extremely disproportinately manner on the content created by others whilst many of the actual creative forces have little to no control of how they can achieve any sort of gratification?

If indeed music is being "consumed" as a commodity more than ever and more money than ever is being generated by this consumption, this would certainly justify the above question.

I think when adressing any debate, it's important to agree on the guiding principle that the eventual outcome must respect. The technical process of establishing that outcome comes afterwards. In this case, I think it's a question of fairplay.

There has been some suggestions that the two opposing views in this thread are "go back to how it was before" versus "it"s great right now". I think this deadlock is solved simply by "let's move into the future". The solution to challenges created by change is simply more change, some tweaks here and there. Improvements.

Certainly asking for large tech companies to fold because part of their business appears morally questionable is not a realistic aspiration. At the same time, using technicalities to argue that we have no choice but to tolerate the continuation of this situation is not credible either. The guiding principle must be respected. If there's exploitation going on through legal but nonetheless "dodgy" means, this is not acceptable.

So while change has to be accepted, this is also valid for those who are "in the crosshairs". They will have to accept that their business model will be scrutinised and they will have to adapt if changes are made to rebalance the way intellectual property is protected.
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  #94  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:12 PM
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I apologize that I am not capable of properly expressing sarcasm online. And I apologize I was arguing with myself. After waking up, I realized how dumb I sounded.
No problem at all. I came across a bit strong there, apologies. It was a poor example of character from me.
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  #95  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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I'm very certain you're totally full of it at this point.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
you're completely dreaming
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
You sound like those keurig idiots
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
recording industry idiots
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
It was a shit system that pushed it's own selection of crap music as they pleased
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
push their own bullshit
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
You're wasting your time
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
if you get out of line like they did, you'll suffer
Wow! And people wonder why I get heated...

I think it's fairly obvious now why you've taken this position. You were unable to get anywhere as a musician and have a huge chip on your shoulder. You now feel that every other musician should suffer and LOVE how Google/Apple/Spotify et al are raping musicians.

You can spout all you want. I am confident that the RIGHT people will conspire to enact changes to the benefit of artists. You can go ahead and work in your server room (actually, you are clearly spending more time on this forum than doing any work. Tough job you have) while REAL musicians are in the trenches fighting for their rights.
  #96  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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So while change has to be accepted, this is also valid for those who are "in the crosshairs". They will have to accept that their business model will be scrutinised and they will have to adapt if changes are made to rebalance the way intellectual property is protected.
This is where I think independent outlets and true artist control are most important. Artists can now take a much bigger cut of any album sales because of the more direct process of sales. Taking Bandcamp as an example (again), there are three parties that get paid: Bandcamp take a cut, PayPal take a cut (if that service is used, it's optional) and the artist. 20 years ago, it was the artist, the artist's management, the record label, the publisher, the distributor, the lawyer and if there was some left over, the artist.

Radiohead's release of 'In Rainbows' ten years ago was a bit of a watershed moment. 'Pay what you like' pricing was novel and nobody was quite sure how it went down - in the end they made more money than anybody could have imagined through the fact that they took the vast majority of the cut from a bestselling album. They even had physical sales with scarcity value. For context, my copy of 'In Rainbows' cost me 40 on vinyl. Discogs tell me it's now worth 150 top price, with a median of 120 because it's the first edition.

Nobody knew if that would work particularly well in 2007. Turns out, they nailed the business model first time. In 2007, the major difference was that the social media networks were nowhere near as pervasive and it was much harder to promote yourself to a mass audience. Now, it's much easier. I'm not suggesting that anybody can repeat 'In Rainbows' in terms of success - not at all - but at a basic level artists can make good money if they use that business model and offer an appealing product, presenting it professionally and treating the business professionally.

That's the future. That and streaming on Spotify and sales on Apple Music if you've got the backing of a major label. There's a place for the traditional music industry but quite frankly, I hope that it dies. It's a horrible industry.
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  #97  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:31 PM
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No problem at all. I came across a bit strong there, apologies. It was a poor example of character from me.
I would offer a handshake, but that is also difficult on line.

As for the thread, it does seem to have derailed to a "who's is bigger" contest. I'm out.
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  #98  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:35 PM
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Wow! And people wonder why I get heated...

I think it's fairly obvious now why you've taken this position. You were unable to get anywhere as a musician and have a huge chip on your shoulder. You now feel that every other musician should suffer and LOVE how Google/Apple/Spotify et al are raping musicians.

You can spout all you want. I am confident that the RIGHT people will conspire to enact changes to the benefit of artists. You can go ahead and work in your server room (actually, you are clearly spending more time on this forum than doing any work. Tough job you have) while REAL musicians are in the trenches fighting for their rights.
Hi. I'm a real musician. I've also had some musical writing published in a real, hardback book - albeit a very minor article in a niche publication. I think that you're wrong and I think you're trying to grasp hold of a World that doesn't exist any more.

It reminds me of the coal miners that worry about losing their jobs. It's sad in a way and I can understand why they're upset if that's all they know. The World is moving on though and either they adapt or they get left behind. Coal is the past. Renewables are the future. In the same way, non-digital sales and 20th Century copyright are the past and the new future is digital, independent publishing, streaming and legal online sales.

Move with the times, adapt or become a dinosaur.
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  #99  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:43 PM
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In the same way, non-digital sales and 20th Century copyright are the past and the new future is digital, independent publishing, streaming and legal online sales.
And back in to say, this was why I posted about my current generation. We grew up with computers and the digital age. A lot of us don't need to adapt because that is the norm. It happens to everything. It's what we know as "right" and we already have ways to make things work.

Some people adapt to stay with what is new, others don't, and we end up with clashes between everybody that's on either side.

I'm terrible at putting thoughts to words, so I hope you understand.
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  #100  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

This has been a great debate, I think. I've been reading with rapt attention.

I don't have enough technical knowledge to contribute to that side of the discussion, but I notice there seems to be another difference in thinking, too.

Even in the heyday of the recording industry, there seemed to be acknowledged value to an artist's creations. Not just the products, the collectibles, as BFY puts it, but in the music itself. The same was true of writing. I mean, that is the fundamental agreement that created copyright and intellectual property laws, isn't it?

I kind of see that idea drifting away. I meet a lot of people who don't think that has inherent value. I usually hear that stated explicitly from people who work in the tech industry, interestingly enough. I get the feeling that the content doesn't matter much - it's the distribution that matters. That's where the money is.

In fact, I have talked to people who are offended by the thought that an artist would get paid just because their song got played. They're ok with paying the artist to PLAY the song, but they don't find value in the song itself. They'll pay a performer, but don't want to pay a songwriter. At least, that's how it seems.

I don't know. I have opinions, but they're mine. I wouldn't expect them to carry weight with anyone else.

Carry on! Fascinating topic to this old drummer.
  #101  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:09 AM
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Wow! And people wonder why I get heated...
That was clever how you ignored all the actual content of the posts and snipped weird sections, none of which were insults towards you.

Quote:
I think it's fairly obvious now why you've taken this position. You were unable to get anywhere as a musician and have a huge chip on your shoulder. You now feel that every other musician should suffer and LOVE how Google/Apple/Spotify et al are raping musicians.
I know, you'd rather we go back to recording giants raping musicians. It's also clear your reading comprehension could use some work. I've consistently advocated other, much more realistic ways for artists to make money in the new economy and reality.

Quote:
You can spout all you want. I am confident that the RIGHT people will conspire to enact changes to the benefit of artists.
Your confidence is not based on the reality we're in. You'll fail just as hard as kuerig did. Just as hard as secuROM did, just as hard as all the other attempts to control people's media on their own devices. It will fail and basically already has. It's invasive to privacy, won't work, We don't want, or need it, and it won't be accepted or adopted anywhere near enough for it to matter.

Quote:
You can go ahead and work in your server room (actually, you are clearly spending more time on this forum than doing any work. Tough job you have) while REAL musicians are in the trenches fighting for their rights.
Sounds good. You can go back to your pretend effective DRM software delusion.

https://www.defectivebydesign.org/
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  #102  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:50 AM
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Hi. I'm a real musician.

Move with the times, adapt or become a dickhead..
ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!... sorry i stole some of your content.. "Googles Vision Statement" is to organise and provide the worlds information in one click. World Poverty and Hunger is not mentioned. But hey we are all moving past that ? Move on!
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Last edited by paradiddle pete; 08-18-2017 at 01:09 AM.
  #103  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:22 AM
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ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!... sorry i stole some of your content.. "Googles Vision Statement" is to organise and provide the worlds information in one click. World Poverty and Hunger is not mentioned. But hey we are all moving past that ? Move on!
Cocaine is one Hell of a drug.
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  #104  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:23 AM
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ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!...
Sorry, I cannot see your attachment, as I have a prototype of DSOP's TPM module in my laptop and it has been blocked by Universal Studios.
  #105  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:32 AM
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Sorry, I cannot see your attachment, as I have a prototype of DSOP's TPM module in my laptop and it has been blocked by Universal Studios.
What did you say? I think all of those individual words were blocked by the magical DRM.
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  #106  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:45 AM
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Cocaine is one Hell of a drug.
I Don't do Drugs.....but you sound like you have experience . A modicum of Snuff can be most Efficacious..no?
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  #107  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:47 AM
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I Don't do Drugs.....but you sound like you have experience . A modicum of Snuff can be most Efficacious..no?
Not my scene at all. You misjudge me.
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  #108  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:49 AM
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Not my scene at all. You misjudge me.
and you me! Now back to catching Pirates, you young folk have all the answers, off you go then..Move with the times..
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  #109  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:51 AM
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Never sure what to do with these threads. They tend to have the same theme, even if the topic is interesting.

1st party: I feel really strongly about a topic. The world should be commissioned to stop x immediately.

2nd party: Not sure that would work, because x...

1st party: your an idiot for not thinking like I do, because I'm superior and have superior brain powers and have a critical job that makes me an expert, even though I keep replying and wasting my employers resources, who by the way is a big bad conglomerate and steals my valuable ideas, but I don't care, because my thinking is superior and you have small testicles.

Never know if I should laugh or cry! Before someone gets their thong wodded up, it's a general statement and how things seem to go with these type threads. Just saying....
  #110  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:53 AM
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What did you say? I think all of those individual words were blocked by the magical DRM.
Not to fear, if that magic DRM doesn't work, per the OP's suggestions, we can simply convert the forum to an approval only platform. That way before any post becomes public it can be checked against a useless, way-behind database/list of copyrighted content and we can be sure (well, not really) that by the time it's finally reviewed and posted, there will be no infringement and no "artists" will be "harmed" by someone seeing their work without permission or money. The last thing a "real artist" would want is people checking out their work without permission. I know this because I was told by an "expert" who informed me what a "real artist is" (not me) and further informed me how all "real artists" feel about this subject.
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  #111  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Humans are a useless / way behind database, wait till the robots get all Arty on your Ass!
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  #112  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:16 AM
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Humans are a useless / way behind database, wait till the robots get all Arty on your Ass!
Actually, I'm hoping to see the sheer Armageddon that's impending from stuff like 3d printers and the related tech. Imagine being able to copy a physical patented device to perfection in your home away from the prying eyes of any restrictions, just as easily as we can now copy a song. The technology will take a frighteningly short amount of time until it can reproduce physical characteristics of say a Guru drum's perfection in design. No doubt at all that many governing bodies will attempt to manage rights to the designs that can be "printed/fabricated", but as I've demonstrated here, that's an exercise in futility unless the platform and costs are actually realistic of the true value those object have when they are so easily copied with so little effort.

What will society and capitalism look like at that point?
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  #113  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:23 AM
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Actually, I'm hoping to see the sheer Armageddon that's impending from stuff like 3d printers and the related tech.

What will society and capitalism look like at that point?
Well My Good Doctor, I would say Erosion.. The Hippies basically kept the world from being at each others throats, but now moving on into the Dawn of Aquarius. Knowledge is Power!
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  #114  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:26 AM
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It reminds me of the coal miners that worry about losing their jobs. It's sad in a way and I can understand why they're upset if that's all they know. The World is moving on though and either they adapt or they get left behind. Coal is the past. Renewables are the future.
Not quite. It would be the same if the coal miners were losing their jobs and more coal was being sold now than ever.
  #115  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:28 AM
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20 years ago, it was the artist, the artist's management, the record label, the publisher, the distributor, the lawyer and if there was some left over, the artist.
Wrong again. 20 years ago the artist got whatever he was able to negotiate with a CONTRACT.
  #116  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:33 AM
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I've consistently advocated other, much more realistic ways for artists to make money in the new economy and reality.
Artists develop art. They spend many years honing their craft. They shouldn't be forced to sell t-shirts or use a virtual begging bowl to get paid. Plenty of money is changing hands due to their art. Most of that money belongs to them.
  #117  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:43 AM
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I don't like the ad based society paradigm. Why do we have to pay for our content by paying for physical things. This is essentially what Google et al. advocate, but you kind of have to understand the cycle of business.

Microsoft was in the camp of copyright enforcement. This software is ours you pay for the content, but they were dinks about it and wouldn't let anyone else distribute content on their platform, so begat Google. Google does everything through the cloud, they develop all of their software in house, and don't distribute it, if you want to use their software you have to use their site, they routinely fight with Google trying to get a foot hold in the OS market and failed.

I feel like we've kind of eclipsed these two and are in an era of Amazon and iTunes. No need for advertising. One stop shopping. They've made it easy to purchase and subscribe for all of these great services. So, things do come around. I've been buying more reasonably priced CDs these days, especially of international music.

I think it is worth noting, that I feel like the people who made it big just before the digital wave were pretty lucky, because they had an advantage in an expanding market, and people now have to have huge leverage to get a foothold.
  #118  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean-Michel Jarre
We are facing a surreal situation where the creative industries have never made so much money more than the car industry, the fashion industry and all these other sectors in society, in terms of growth and jobs. So you could say everything is great. The problem is that the nucleus of these creative industries -- the creators and authors -- have never got so little.

And this is not just a problem for a niche sector of society. It's a huge problem for every family in the world. For every individual on the planet. Because in every family you have one kid dreaming of becoming a graphic artist, filmmaker or musician and [unless something changes] tomorrow they will have to forget their dream.

We need to change the system worldwide and that change could come from Africa, Washington. Europe or China; somebody has to push the green light to protect artists and protect intellectual property. It's not only a financial problem. It's also a moral problem. It's a problem of ethics.

Intellectual property should be considered part of our human rights. If we don't create a decent business model for the 21st century, for all these sectors of society, we may not have the next Stanley Kubrick, the next Coldplay, or the next Picasso.
http://www.billboard.com/biz/article...nt-jean-michel
  #119  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by The Trichordist
despite the predictions of legions of corporate false prophets there has been no emergence of a new independent professional middle class of musicians. In fact, the complete opposite has happened, there are 45% less professional musicians (according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics) from 2002 2011.
https://thetrichordist.com/2012/11/2...ars-was-right/
  #120  
Old 08-18-2017, 05:06 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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"Googles Vision Statement" is to organise and provide the worlds information in one click. World Poverty and Hunger is not mentioned. But hey we are all moving past that ? Move on!
Hey, as long as we're having pointless arguments ... so what?

Why should Google mention "poverty and hunger"? They're a company. Their existence as a corporate entity doesn't _cause_ poverty and hunger. And they end poverty and hunger for millions every day: the people the directly pay, and all the people they pay, and so on.

I mean, I hate Google too, but not because they aren't out trying to solve charity problems (I hate them because they have a weird and culty and condescending culture [which is smugly shared by the employees of just about every other company like them], and because they don't make anything real, they're just life-sucking middle-men).

Am I taking crazy pills? Corporations don't need to reflect my beliefs or try to browbeat me with their "values" and "mission statements". Just make the thing, pay your workers, and maybe I'll buy it.
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