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  #1  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:00 PM
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Default Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/willia...b_5086820.html

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Why are search companies, like Google, so determined to maintain the status quo? The answer is simple. For all the claims about innovation and the power of the Internet to drive our ailing economy, the Internet is totally dependent upon content. Without it, they simply have warehouses filled with empty servers and endless bandwidth. The key to their explosive financial growth is dependent upon unlimited, cheap access to quality content.
  #2  
Old 04-12-2014, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Protection can't come too soon.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2014, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

http://vimeo.com/89327769
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/enter...=.5c24fabe9dc8

http://overyondr.com/
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

DSOP, you'd be interested in Jonathan Taplin's book Move Fast And Break Things.
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  #6  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

YouTube is probably the worlds biggest pirate. They profit from the ads they sell while you go watch someone else's copyrighted material. I would be happy to pay but there is no mechanism to do so.

Think of this ... if YouTube had a button on the bottom of the page where you could donate even 1¢ any time you watched or listened to anything I would be happy to do so. And even just a single penny would make a huge difference to the artists compared to making .00000nothing that Spotify and others pay.
  #7  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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DSOP, you'd be interested in Jonathan Taplin's book Move Fast And Break Things.
Thanks, but I guarantee you that I purchased and read it at least a few weeks before you even heard about it. And I got at least four friends of mine to do the same. Amazing, amazing book. A must read for EVERYONE.
  #8  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by dboomer View Post
YouTube is probably the worlds biggest pirate.
There is no "probably" about it. They (Google/Alphabet/YouTube) are indeed the biggest culprits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...fbf_story.html

Last edited by drumming sort of person; 08-15-2017 at 06:22 AM.
  #9  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Enough With the Legal Theories About Piracy

http://illusionofmore.com/enough-wit...-about-piracy/
  #10  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Copyright infringing videos must number in the millions, but if you try to flag them, you get this. Like, the only reason they're "unable" to accept third party notifications is because they made a policy that they won't.
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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if you try to flag them, you get this. Like, the only reason they're "unable" to accept third party notifications is because they made a policy that they won't.
Just ignore that and post the notice saying that you represent the artist. I do it all the time. The person who posted the content will take it down and then just post it again, or have someone else post it. But at least they'll get a ding on their account.
  #12  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:18 AM
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I wonder if it's too late to do anything about this? YouTube and Google are such a part of techno-society, with at least one generation of kids brought up thinking it's ok to just take copyrighted music works to have, that any laws passed would be like closing the barn doors after the horses have already gotten out. How do you suddenly stop people just taking what's out there?

I'm definitely not a "doomsday" kinda guy, but when you combine artists doing anything they can to get their name and product out there, including just giving it away, and established artists doing what they can to maintain any kind of notoriety they already have, and maybe giving things away (like U2 did), what kind of law would regulate that? Who wants a law to regulate?
  #13  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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what kind of law would regulate that? Who wants a law to regulate?
The laws already exist. They just need to be enforced and strengthened, and they will.
  #14  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

As a teacher, Iv'e become very good at scrounging what I need to make things work. If I see anything I can use in class for my students, I'll take it - Copyrights be damned!!
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:11 PM
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The laws already exist. They just need to be enforced and strengthened, and they will.
Like so many of our other laws. I get it, and I think in an ideal world it would work, but considering our track record of enforcing laws already on the books, one can only hope.
  #16  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
The laws already exist. They just need to be enforced and strengthened, and they will.
Can't agree, for if they were to be enforced, they already would be.

Only a handful of artists of late have taken steps to protect their work (Taylor Swift and her Apple Music issue comes to mind). Many others, like the aforementioned U2, know how the current market is with music, video & printed material. As such, they put out enough to get the next generation to love what they do & then charge them later.

So many "YouTube-to-mp3/mp4" converters exist now that anyone can rip a song or video posted on that site & keep it for themselves.
No artist paid, no royalties given...nothing.

Just free.

Yeah, you hear of the occasional kid getting investigated ala "Lars Ulrich & Napster", but no real follow up happens.
The Feds have their fingers in the hole, but the whole dam is crumbling around them.

So it really boils down to personal integrity. If you're against it, don't copy or rip it.
If you're not, then enjoy the free material as no one is really doing anything about it.
  #17  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

I suspect that the big guys don't crack down on the thieves, because the big guys are thieves themselves.

MTV stole from one of my bands, Noodle Muffin, twice. Here is one of the instances.

When they were contacted, they replied with the message that "we are big, you are small, you should be grateful we picked your song, and you have bragging rights."

No band name or recognition on the screen. Bragging rights? Those don't pay bills. Sure, it was a small clip, but theft is theft.

I've seen them note the name of the songs on some more modern shows today, such as "Catfish." Back then, nothing.

It was odd that they stole from us, especially after refusing to play one of our music videos. Not good enough to play on MTV, but good enough to steal from.

Today, we're at least two generations deep into a culture that does not see why they should pay for music. There's a misconception that it does not cost anything.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2017, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

If copyright violations were criminal and enforced, every single person I've ever known would be in jail.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:53 PM
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What a huge waste of time and unfair burden on content sites.

There's literally no possible way for them to ever, ever keep up on policing everyone's rights to digital, easily distributed content.

Give it up already and make a living selling something physical or do it performance wise. You aren't going to stop the internet, and you aren't going to stop people's consumption of what they want on the internet.

If they want to actually control and sell digital content that's easy to re-produce and pirate, then they need to get with the program, make the access extremely easy and at a price point where most people will be willing to part with the dollars for something they could get free with some effort.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:49 PM
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What a huge waste of time and unfair burden on content sites.

There's literally no possible way for them to ever, ever keep up on policing everyone's rights to digital, easily distributed content.

Give it up already and make a living selling something physical or do it performance wise. You aren't going to stop the internet, and you aren't going to stop people's consumption of what they want on the internet.

If they want to actually control and sell digital content that's easy to re-produce and pirate, then they need to get with the program, make the access extremely easy and at a price point where most people will be willing to part with the dollars for something they could get free with some effort.
You know absolutely NOTHING of which you write. Please do some research before spouting out nonsense. Google is making BILLIONS of dollars exploiting the creations of others. The solution is simple. They need to be forced, via legislation, to distribute their stolen revenue, and then prosecuted for their monopolistic ways. The European Union has already begun.

A huge part of the problem is the nonsensical arguments flouted by anonymous clowns like YOU who wish for things to stay as they are. What you don't realize is that YOUR livelihood is next.

Once these monopolies are forced to change their ways, the money will start getting to the creators.
  #21  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:52 PM
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Can't agree, for if they were to be enforced, they already would be.
Not true. Enforcement requires personnel, and most of that part of the government has either been gutted, or taken over by Google's people.

https://artistrightswatch.com/2016/1...yright-office/

Once again, please do some research before saying the same old thing that IS NOT TRUE.

https://thetrichordist.com/2013/02/0...doing-exposed/
  #22  
Old 08-15-2017, 06:55 PM
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enjoy the free material as no one is really doing anything about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JSrrxb85FY
  #23  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.c...mic-literally/
  #24  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
You know absolutely NOTHING of which you write. Please do some research before spouting out nonsense.
Many posters here have done research and what we've discovered is it'll never be enforced to the level YOU want it to be. I'm sorry this is a sore subject for you, but once Napster & sites like theirs were created, the snowball just got bigger.

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
A huge part of the problem is the nonsensical arguments flouted by anonymous clowns like YOU who wish for things to stay as they are.
And spewing inflammatory rhetoric like this is a quick way to get banned from here. I've been on enough forums like this to know if you're going to personally attack people, there are consequences.
Make your point & be done with it. Start name calling like you are and soon there will be one less person on the rolls.
No need for hate speech like this especially after what's been going on lately.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
What a huge waste of time and unfair burden on content sites.
That's ridiculous. It's only an unfair burden because their business model relies on copyright infringing content. It's a specific business decision YouTube made which gave them an advantage over non-infringing competitors early on.

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There's literally no possible way for them to ever, ever keep up on policing everyone's rights to digital, easily distributed content.
Sure, they can go after the big, gross offenders, which are primarily for-profit businesses. Revisit the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and eliminate/update safe harbor policies.

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
If copyright violations were criminal and enforced, every single person I've ever known would be in jail.
It's not about individual behavior. People are going to take whatever free stuff is offered to them, of course. It's about government doing its job and regulating the internet rationally, and enforcing anti-trust law. They need to revisit/reverse a lot of decisions made in the 90s which really serve no one but a few hyper-wealthy tech corporations.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
You know absolutely NOTHING of which you write. Please do some research before spouting out nonsense. Google is making BILLIONS of dollars exploiting the creations of others. The solution is simple. They need to be forced, via legislation, to distribute their stolen revenue, and then prosecuted for their monopolistic ways. The European Union has already begun.

A huge part of the problem is the nonsensical arguments flouted by anonymous clowns like YOU who wish for things to stay as they are. What you don't realize is that YOUR livelihood is next.

Once these monopolies are forced to change their ways, the money will start getting to the creators.
None of this will ever happen. EVER! And yes my livelihood is next, and so is yours and so is everybody else's. The flood gates are already opened, and there is no stopping it. The consumer drives the market, simple economic fact. If streaming went away tomorrow the consumers would just find another way to get the content for free. For about 40 years the record companies made music a commodity and controlled the distribution of that commodity. In about half of the typical American lifespan the record industry went from nonexistent, to a billion dollar industry, to irrelevance. Not really a great legacy, and not something that I feel is worth saving.

Maybe music isn't supposed to be bought and sold like groceries or hardware. Maybe its supposed to be created and shared. Maybe we will return to the days when the performance was as integral to music as the sound. Maybe we don't need producers and studios and worldwide distribution. Maybe we just need people with passion and instruments and a place to play. Google cant make billions of dollars from a group on a stage making great music together.

As for the EU, their attempts to combat piracy are nothing more than standing on their lawn in their underwear and shaking their fists at the clouds.
  #27  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
The consumer drives the market, simple economic fact. If streaming went away tomorrow the consumers would just find another way to get the content for free.
No, some unscrupulous for-profit businesses will try to find another way to get it to them. Big difference.

Quote:
For about 40 years the record companies made music a commodity and controlled the distribution of that commodity. In about half of the typical American lifespan the record industry went from nonexistent, to a billion dollar industry, to irrelevance. Not really a great legacy, and not something that I feel is worth saving.
The phonograph was invented in 1877. The destruction of the music business began... the creation of Napster in 1999 is a convenient date. The music business had its problems, but people did get employed and paid, and new talent was developed and promoted. Now all we have is a few legacy superstars, some momentary YouTube sensations, and a catalog of whatever recordings became popular over a decade ago.

Quote:
Maybe music isn't supposed to be bought and sold like groceries or hardware. Maybe its supposed to be created and shared. Maybe we will return to the days when the performance was as integral to music as the sound. Maybe we don't need producers and studios and worldwide distribution. Maybe we just need people with passion and instruments and a place to play.
An apt summary of Google et al's corporate doctrine / religious dogma, yes.
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  #28  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CommanderRoss View Post
No need for hate speech like this especially after what's been going on lately.
What hate speech? Do you know what that even means?
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2017, 07:47 PM
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What hate speech? Do you know what that even means?
Don't be obtuse, Todd. I'm talking about the name calling in the past threads. You read it too & if you feel that speaking to other drummers like that is ok, then I feel you're wrong as well.

Basic respect for each other is paramount on here & any attempt to bring another down by schoolyard level name calling is just not the way to be.

I've said all I'm going to about this. If youse want to keep up this topic & bash me, that's fine. I won't be here to see it.
I won't associate myself with those looking to berate another. I've had enough of that in my lifetime to know when to walk away.
  #30  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

He got a little emotional. It happens, no point in being thin-skinned about it. Hate speech is something different, and you should know what it means before accusing people of it.
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
You know absolutely NOTHING of which you write. Please do some research before spouting out nonsense. Google is making BILLIONS of dollars exploiting the creations of others. The solution is simple. They need to be forced, via legislation, to distribute their stolen revenue, and then prosecuted for their monopolistic ways. The European Union has already begun.
Incorrect. Google makes money off all their content in similar ways, it does not intentionally make money from copyright, and has no realistic way of keeping track of or policing content in a literally un-winnable battle because of folks who want to sit around getting checks since someone heard their song.

As it happens, I pay google 10 bucks a month for "legal" access to huge pools of music. This is easier than stealing it, and at a price point where I can feel it's worth my while. I say this as an artist and musician who sells my own music, plays my own shows, and gets on with the reality of life. Does my payment for the service change anything about the piracy going on? Not in the least.

Quote:
A huge part of the problem is the nonsensical arguments flouted by anonymous clowns like YOU who wish for things to stay as they are. What you don't realize is that YOUR livelihood is next.
First of all, knock it off with the childish name-calling. If you're older than 7, you should be able to control yourself without slinging names. It's not adding gravity to your statements, nor making you look at all intelligent. I understand that we have differing viewpoints and I can converse without calling you a clown. Take an example.

Secondly, my argument is actually based on reality and yours is fantasy. You cannot stop piracy of 1's and 0's arranged in certain ways. It's NOT POSSIBLE. Our world is different than a lot of folks imagined it would be and the folks who came up with the idea of "copyright" didn't have a clue what it would be up against. There is more "content" now than there ever has been and it will not slow, or be controlled, or be "fair" if you want to take a hard-line about getting paid when your song enters people's ears.

Quote:
Once these monopolies are forced to change their ways, the money will start getting to the creators.
Nope. It will just give more money back to the guys supporting Justin Beber and whatever they want to push. It won't help you or any of the other billions of content creators who really need to do their own work if they want to operate on the fantasy that they can control who downloads what 1's and 0's and in what order.

Creating more laws and government oversight won't change anything other than where some of the money goes, and guess who's going to benefit in large scale from that? Probably the little guy producing his own music, right?
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Last edited by Dr_Watso; 08-15-2017 at 08:23 PM.
  #32  
Old 08-15-2017, 08:31 PM
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Napster was interesting for a few reasons, one being that I could get the things that were not for sale. For example, Marilyn Manson demos. Another was Eminem and looking up "the underground sh*t he did with Scam," as referenced in one of his songs. Not for sale. Downloaded that. As a result, I've since purchased everything Eminem has done. Probably wouldn't have without Napster.

The other thing was reminders of music that I used to like. I'd get these files, and inevitably they'd have false starts and ends, weird artifacts, be of lower quality, etc., After encounters like that, I'd go out and buy it.

I don't recall downloading something available for purchase, and then finding it to be acceptable to the point that my activity stopped there. Most of what I found on Napster that wasn't demos or not-for-sale items was crap quality.

It might be a cultural thing for me, coming from an age when I'd purchase music. I owned The White Album on 8-track, vinyl, cassette, and CD. Bought it each time. Now everything is on a MicroSD card.
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Last edited by DrumWild; 08-15-2017 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Punctuation
  #33  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by CommanderRoss View Post
No need for hate speech like this especially after what's been going on lately.
Don't feed the resident copyright enthusiast. You're arguing with a man that literally wants you thrown in prison for letting your kid watch "Potty Time With Elmo" on youtube.

FWIW, I think Prince had it right. You bought a concert ticket, you were handed a CD when you went to see the show. Each concert ticket was counted as a CD sale. He had some of the best selling albums ever as a result.

Prince also had it wrong, demanding take-downs of videos of children dancing to his songs.

Perry Ferrell had it it even more right when he said, "There ain't no wrong, there ain't no right"
  #34  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
folks who want to sit around getting checks since someone heard their song.
If you go on pro-piracy sites this kind of hatred of artists is right up front every time the question of rights comes up. Very strange coming from people who claim to be artists themselves.

Quote:
Creating more laws and government oversight won't change anything
What do you think so-called free enterprise is? It's nothing if not a collection of laws and regulations enforced by government. Everything being discussed here is the result of decisions being made in government, and in business.

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
You're arguing with a man that literally wants you thrown in prison for letting your kid watch "Potty Time With Elmo" on youtube.
Who ever said that?
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  #35  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Before this thread gets locked, shouldn't this have been started in the Off-topic section?
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  #36  
Old 08-15-2017, 10:10 PM
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Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
If you go on pro-piracy sites this kind of hatred of artists is right up front every time the question of rights comes up. Very strange coming from people who claim to be artists themselves.
How do you figure I'm hating artists? By my view I'm simply being realistic and adapting to the world as it is rather than try and force an impossibility with more government regulation on top of already existing regulation, all for literally nothing since the goal is un-attainable. I want those artists to stop worrying that someone ingested their music without handing over cash, and hit the road to earn money from the fans they're obviously garnering. I know of lots of acts here in the bay area doing this exactly. They offer up the music to enjoy knowing they can't control it anyway. As a result, if people like that music, they come see the shows, buy the shirts, purchase physical CDs, support online, be fans and grow your craft's influence. The days of sitting on your butt while a record company promotes and gives you little checks made of a tiny percentage are gone and should stay gone. Other more flexible, better business models are already happening. Artists and musicians could be looking at the positive side of this, which is how easy it is to share and gain exposure over the digital media you're producing.

Music and musicians existed long before copyright laws were around to "protect" them. It's a part of humanity, and it will persist regardless what our society does or thinks about intellectual property rights and copying rather than stealing or depriving someone of something. It's a fact of today that we cannot control the spread of information on the internet without acting like China and monitoring/censoring to the point of absurdity. Even then, you STILL can't control people on such a system.

Quote:
What do you think so-called free enterprise is?
The same thing I was always taught it was.

free en·ter·prise
ˌfrē ˈen(t)ərˌprīz
noun
an economic system in which private business operates in competition and largely free of state control.

Quote:
It's nothing if not a collection of laws and regulations enforced by government. Everything being discussed here is the result of decisions being made in government, and in business.
I think we're just not agreeing on the terminology or ideology of "free enterprise". For that matter, I don't support fully free enterprise. I think minimal but careful regulation is required especially where smaller consumers or entities are involved.

Quote:
Who ever said that?
An obvious exaggeration however, there was a time and still exists plenty of direct against the end user litigation, which is beyond petty, does nothing to help the situation and makes people hate those organizations even more.
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  #37  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:08 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Who ever said that?
DSOP did, in the last locked copyright sperg thread, where he pulled the exact same all-caps "YOU KNOW NOTHING!" tantrum he did here.

It's really not worth arguing about, just interesting to see that this belief (That copyright infringement should = prison) exists.
  #38  
Old 08-16-2017, 01:55 AM
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drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

The only people who say "it's different now" or "you can't stop the Internet" or "too late, the flood gates are open" are either A: Afraid of the gatekeepers who used to decide which artist and which music got released or B: Sadly ignorant as far as how digital music and the Internet works.

As soon as the collective will has decided that this has to change, it will change. It's not difficult to control the distribution and playability of digital files. It just requires legislation to force the parties involved to play by the rules.

As for artists making money from their concerts, you may not be aware that people are going to concerts and either live streaming the event from their mobile devices, or capturing the content from several angles/devices and then making the concert available as a video on demand after the fact. And these scumbags are using YouTube to promote this. As an example, search for "Herbie Hancock live stream" on YouTube and one of the results is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN7q3zEwlGI

If you click on the URL in the description you are taken to a site that requires you to enter your credit card info for a "free trial" after which your card is charged every month. Good luck with your credit card and personal info on that server.

If I have offended anyone, I'm sorry, but you need a wakeup call. You should be ashamed of yourselves for not standing up to these despicable corporations.
  #39  
Old 08-16-2017, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

From now on, I will just quote articles and post links which you can read or ignore. No sense in complaining to people who are set in their ways and love seeing their heroes struggle financially.
  #40  
Old 08-16-2017, 02:49 AM
crispycritters crispycritters is offline
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Default Re: Online Piracy Finally In the Crosshairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
From now on, I will just quote articles and post links which you can read or ignore. No sense in complaining to people who are set in their ways and love seeing their heroes struggle financially.
Probably a good idea. Also a good idea if you drop the abusive tantrums, that way you'll probably have a better chance of discussing a subject you obviously feel strongly about instead of turning your own thread into a monkey shit throwing contest.

I loved the phrase 'no sense in complaining to people who are set in their ways and love seeing their heroes struggle financially'.... Seriously?
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