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  #1  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:12 PM
Drumlove65 Drumlove65 is offline
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Default My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

So many drummers who've enjoyed some success seem to rely on a whole lot of flash and little substance. I don't give a hoot if someone can play a million miles an hour with a 20 piece set. I would much rather listen to a drummer who with a basic 4 piece set up make the drums metaphorically come alive. I would watch Gergo Borlai with his Mapex bop kit before I would spend a considerable amount of time ferreting out the flash of a Mike Mangini or Mike Portnoy. I don't want to convey that people shouldn't have their own taste in drumming technique of course listen to Dream Theater till your ears bleed if you like but I guess in my older years I appreciate more what drummers do with less than with more.

I will of course invite contrary views.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

I think we've staggered down this alley many times before.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

I think there are also a lot of drummers with both a whole lot of flash and a whole lot of substance. :-) It really depends on what you are playing, right? It is very hard to play R&R and New Country covers without a fairly full kit. But if you are playing jazz or MOR stuff a small kit is perfect. I agree I would like to listen to a really good drummer with a small kit then one with a big kit that simply overplays. However, it the large flash kit is played tastefully, you will hear a lot of nice tones. The 2 best drummers I ever heard (live) were Gene Krupa (snare tom bass) and Carmine Appice (too many drums to count). Ok, this dates me I know. :-)
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Old 03-08-2014, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

My humble take is that I will of course invite using the search function.
Yes, this forum has seen a few similar threads before... sigh.
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  #5  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Ah, two birds with one stone. Chops vs groove and big kit vs small kits all rolled into one thread.

My humble opinion. A good drummer is not determined by the size of their kit or how many (or how little) notes they play. They are determined by what they say on that kit and how those notes place within the context of their music.

I get equal amounts of joy listening to Danny Carey or Nicko McBrain as I do listening to Steve Jordan or Steve Gadd. Just for different reasons........because of their different musical interpretations, rather than in spite of them.

Context is everything. Without it, the world gets tainted with a "one size fits all" broad stroke........and a "good" musician knows the world just doesn't work that way.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

I recently came back to the sport of drumming after a long long time of not playing.
I have been involved in open mic nights and jam nights for the last 9 months.
Of course I have been evaluating other drummers to find out where I fit in.

Frankly, I am sick and tired of evaluating and rating other drummers.
And I am sick and tired of rating myself.

Over the last few weeks I have been simply forgetting all of that stuff and I'm just having fun playing.


.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2014, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
Over the last few weeks I have been simply forgetting all of that stuff and I'm just having fun playing.
Sounds familiar to me - I'm noticing a similar process here. It's a feeling of relief, isn't it?
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2014, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
So many drummers who've enjoyed some success seem to rely on a whole lot of flash and little substance. I don't give a hoot if someone can play a million miles an hour with a 20 piece set.

I will of course invite contrary views.
I'll just throw a name here: Simon Phillips...

... and that would be my contrary view :)

It covers many topics at once, small vs big kits, open handed drumming, double bass kits, playing for the songs, chops vs groove, less is more, overplaying, how to be musical, odd time signatures, speed, control, techniques, versatility, consistency, polyrhythms, interdependence... many topics found on hundred of threads with just one guy.

Like PFOG said, context is everything and some drummers seems to master all contexts...
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
So many drummers who've enjoyed some success seem to rely on a whole lot of flash and little substance. I don't give a hoot if someone can play a million miles an hour with a 20 piece set. I would much rather listen to a drummer who with a basic 4 piece set up make the drums metaphorically come alive. I would watch Gergo Borlai with his Mapex bop kit before I would spend a considerable amount of time ferreting out the flash of a Mike Mangini or Mike Portnoy. I don't want to convey that people shouldn't have their own taste in drumming technique of course listen to Dream Theater till your ears bleed if you like but I guess in my older years I appreciate more what drummers do with less than with more.

I will of course invite contrary views.

Troll alert.



.....................................
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Alright guys, this is just my opinion...but I think it's a good idea to drive on the left hand side of the road.


I will of course invite contrary views.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Alright guys, this is just my opinion...but I think it's a good idea to drive on the left hand side of the road.


I will of course invite contrary views.
We could have a lengthy discussion on this very important topic Ben...

Which is better?

Driving on the left in a right handed steering wheel car?

Driving on the left in a left handed steering wheel car?

Driving on the right in a right handed steering wheel car?

Driving on the right in a left handed steering wheel car?

Should we have a car with two steering wheels and six pedals?

How does this affect us when riding a motorbike?

How does this affect us when driving outside the UK?
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Should we have a car with two steering wheels and six pedals?
This would confuse all Americans. In your scenario, it's only four pedals. They have no idea what a clutch pedal is.

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How does this affect us when driving outside the UK?
Or India, Japan, China, Australia & other similarly enlightened countries ;)
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2014, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

No offense but why should we care about your personal taste in music and drummers?

Also, you sound out of touch. If you think that Dream Theater "makes your ears bleed", then you should listen to Meshuggah.
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

The clutch is that pedal on the left that most Euro's ride all of the time wearing out the clutch plate. The ones with out the clutch rest their foot on the brake constantly leaving the brake light on. This is mostly the Canadians that visit our lovely state .
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Old 03-08-2014, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
So many drummers who've enjoyed some success seem to rely on a whole lot of flash and little substance. I don't give a hoot if someone can play a million miles an hour with a 20 piece set. I would much rather listen to a drummer who with a basic 4 piece set up make the drums metaphorically come alive. I would watch Gergo Borlai with his Mapex bop kit before I would spend a considerable amount of time ferreting out the flash of a Mike Mangini or Mike Portnoy. I don't want to convey that people shouldn't have their own taste in drumming technique of course listen to Dream Theater till your ears bleed if you like but I guess in my older years I appreciate more what drummers do with less than with more.

I will of course invite contrary views.
I assume you also think the Mona Lisa would look much better if it was just a black and white sketch on the back of a cocktail napkin. Within the context and style of music you play, more drums, cymbals, etc. are just added colors available for the drummer to paint his art with.
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Old 03-08-2014, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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The clutch is that pedal on the left that most Euro's ride all of the time wearing out the clutch plate.
you have a point ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loki03xlh View Post
I assume you also think the Mona Lisa would look much better if it was just a black and white sketch on the back of a cocktail napkin.
TBH, yes. Always thought she was a bit of a minger! ;)
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Old 03-08-2014, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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TBH, yes. Always thought she was a bit of a minger! ;)
She owes me 50 bucks!
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2014, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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you have a point ;)

TBH, yes. Always thought she was a bit of a minger! ;)
My first two cars had a clutch,and NYPD 3 wheel scooters have a clutch as well.I drove a Triumph TR-4 for around a year,and a Chevy Malibu 4 speed for two years.

I've actually been to the Louve and saw the Mona Lisa.It's a lot smaller than most think.Still,an impressive piece of work.

Steve B
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

I'd just like to point out that resting the left foot on the clutch pedal will only wear out the clutch plate (friction disc) if the clutch is partially disengaged.

More likely is that the clutch release bearing will get worn.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:31 PM
Drumlove65 Drumlove65 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
No offense but why should we care about your personal taste in music and drummers?

Also, you sound out of touch. If you think that Dream Theater "makes your ears bleed", then you should listen to Meshuggah.
Well I thought this forum invited all views not just ones with which you agree. I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin

Quote:
Originally Posted by loki03xlh View Post
I assume you also think the Mona Lisa would look much better if it was just a black and white sketch on the back of a cocktail napkin. Within the context and style of music you play, more drums, cymbals, etc. are just added colors available for the drummer to paint his art with.
You've missed my point completely. I think Gergo Borlai with 4 drums is the real Mona Lisa and the rest are glam posers

Last edited by Arky; 03-08-2014 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Well I thought this forum invited all views not just ones with which you agree. I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin
Joining a forum is a lot like arriving at a barbecue. There are many conversations going on, and everybody is having a good time. Your presence is welcomed (especially when you make the fine distinction between you're and your).

But I'm guessing that in an offline social situation you'd listen to the established conversations before mouthing off. So why then would you behave differently online?
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:12 PM
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The clutch is that pedal on the left that most Euro's ride all of the time wearing out the clutch plate.
Isn't a clutch the thing for the top cymbal of a hi-hat? :-)
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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I drove a Triumph TR-4
Steve, if you weren't already very high in my estimation, you certainly would be after admitting this ;) Was it the IRS version? Wire wheels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin
I shouldn't rise to this, but I will, as ignoring you is a bigger deal. It's you who just reacted to a counter view. Ok, so your POV wasn't taken so seriously, or picked up with relish, but perhaps that has more to do with the initial presentation than your intention.

Political snipes aren't welcome here, & especially by me, when directed at someone I respect & regard as a friend. Stick around though, because something tells me you have much to offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
Joining a forum is a lot like arriving at a barbecue. There are many conversations going on, and everybody is having a good time. Your presence is welcomed (especially when you make the fine distinction between you're and your).

But I'm guessing that in an offline social situation you'd listen to the established conversations before mouthing off. So why then would you behave differently online?
Eloquently put :)
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

Here's a hi hat clutch...

Name:  hi hat clutch.png
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2014, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Well I thought this forum invited all views not just ones with which you agree. I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin



You've missed my point completely. I think Gergo Borlai with 4 drums is the real Mona Lisa and the rest are glam posers

Absolute rubbish. You are trolling. Your entire question is designed to cause disputes. Your mistake is believing we are naive enough not to notice and then fall into your trap. Well it did not work. And then you accuse us of being totalitarian???

You're dreaming buddy. What happened, did Pearl kick you out?

Please.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:47 PM
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Here's a hi hat clutch...

Attachment 61823
Must be German design. WAY overbuilt ;-)
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Well I thought this forum invited all views not just ones with which you agree. I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin
That's right, because I don't care about your taste in music I must be "on side with Putin", as you so eloquently put it.

Troll.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:07 AM
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Does Putin play a Mapex bop kit? Or does he slog away at a million miles an hour on 20 piece set? Or is he just too busy wrestling bears with his shirt off to care?

Perhaps if he had a passionate view on the big kit/small kit/chops/groove debate, he wouldn't feel the need to be running around and posturing away with his military?


But I digress. More importantly, what do totalitarians think about the trad. grip/matched grip conundrum?
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
So many drummers who've enjoyed some success seem to rely on a whole lot of flash and little substance. I don't give a hoot if someone can play a million miles an hour with a 20 piece set. I would much rather listen to a drummer who with a basic 4 piece set up make the drums metaphorically come alive. I would watch Gergo Borlai with his Mapex bop kit before I would spend a considerable amount of time ferreting out the flash of a Mike Mangini or Mike Portnoy. I don't want to convey that people shouldn't have their own taste in drumming technique of course listen to Dream Theater till your ears bleed if you like but I guess in my older years I appreciate more what drummers do with less than with more.

I will of course invite contrary views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
Well I thought this forum invited all views not just ones with which you agree. I guess you're worldview would best belong in some totalitarian state. I guess you're on side with Putin



You've missed my point completely. I think Gergo Borlai with 4 drums is the real Mona Lisa and the rest are glam posers
So you start off by insulting and discrediting name drummers, and then you insult and discredit the member base for not following your lead in bashing name drummers. Not very drum love of you.

Sounds like you just want an argument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

I like all kinds of drummers. I don't see the point in calling others names just because they play a different style of drumming than someone else.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:38 AM
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I guess this opinion is reasonable (and typical enough) but it's probably more of a thing that you'd post in response to a question, not start a thread and say "this is what I think, disagree with me". You're assuming everyone is going to be surprised by what you think and care but no, you haven't groomed the senior members enough to expect support.

You've broken the rules of the Internet.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

So many of those drummers who have enjoyed success have done a great deal of entertaining. Some of their flash may be over the top, but they are still entertaining and fans of music may like or dislike at their will. That Rolling Stones drummer, I forget his name, has achieved much success with his four piece set, being very stoic and robot like. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:19 AM
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Does Putin play a Mapex bop kit? Or does he slog away at a million miles an hour on 20 piece set? Or is he just too busy wrestling bears with his shirt off to care?

Perhaps if he had a passionate view on the big kit/small kit/chops/groove debate, he wouldn't feel the need to be running around and posturing away with his military?


But I digress. More importantly, what do totalitarians think about the trad. grip/matched grip conundrum?
ROFL!!!

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Old 03-09-2014, 01:39 AM
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But I digress. More importantly, what do totalitarians think about the trad. grip/matched grip conundrum?
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
I guess this opinion is reasonable (and typical enough) but it's probably more of a thing that you'd post in response to a question, not start a thread and say "this is what I think, disagree with me". You're assuming everyone is going to be surprised by what you think and care but no, you haven't groomed the senior members enough to expect support.

You've broken the rules of the Internet.
Rules of the internet? Please give me a break

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Does Putin play a Mapex bop kit? Or does he slog away at a million miles an hour on 20 piece set? Or is he just too busy wrestling bears with his shirt off to care?

Perhaps if he had a passionate view on the big kit/small kit/chops/groove debate, he wouldn't feel the need to be running around and posturing away with his military?


But I digress. More importantly, what do totalitarians think about the trad. grip/matched grip conundrum?
Actually I think Putin plays bass

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Actually I think Putin plays bass
OK I QUIT I GUESS DRUMMERS AREN'T THE MOST OPEN-MINDED MEMBERS OF THE BAND AFTER ALL.

Last edited by Arky; 03-09-2014 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:15 PM
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Actually I think Putin plays bass
.
With his shirt on or off?

What about if it were a 5 string bass? Given the less is more approach, that extra string does little more than provide ample opportunity for ferreting the flash. Would that just make him indulgent given good bass players should be able to say all they need with 4 strings?

But why stop there? Why not a one string bass? Or a solitary snare drum? Surely that's all we need? If 4 drums automatically equates to a more tasteful and musical approach, imagine how much more expression would be there to enjoy via a snare drum alone. :-)

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I GUESS DRUMMERS AREN'T THE MOST OPEN-MINDED MEMBERS OF THE BAND AFTER ALL.
Pot, meet kettle.

You invited this discussion remember mate.

I recall you saying something like...........

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Originally Posted by Drumlove65 View Post
I will of course invite contrary views.
Well, you're getting 'em. Given your initial line of thought, surely you knew at least some of us were gonna flip the coin?
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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But why stop there? Why not a one string bass? ?
I'm pretty sure a balalaika only has 3 strings. Putin probably plays a bass balalaika.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

What this thread is about again?

Ah, yes... drummers vs drummers... and I thought drummers were a brotherhood... sorry, my bad :(
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:31 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Ah, yes... drummers vs drummers... and I thought drummers were a brotherhood... sorry, my bad :(
Hey, if warmongering is good enough for Putin, then it's good enough for drummers.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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Old 03-10-2014, 05:16 AM
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Default Re: My humble take on good drummers and OK drummers

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What this thread is about again?
We were discussing how the English are strange because they drive of the wrong side of the road. Don't even get me started on the weird spelling of words like "colour".

This guy is pretty good, I tried to troll a thread by badmouthing jazz and vintage gear and no one bit. I suck at trolling.
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