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  #1  
Old 01-30-2014, 05:05 PM
All Seeing Eye All Seeing Eye is offline
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Default Backing tracks and metronome.

Hi everyone, new here so sorry if this has been asked before!

Looking to put some backing tracks and samples etc into my bands songs. From a live view point obviously the best way to do this properly is to make sure I play to mentronome so the band doesnt go out and thus render the backing track useless.Obviously needs to be synced with the backing track... Im not overly tech savvy, electronics are pretty much witch craft to me. I do trigger however... "Blah blah blah triggers are cheating etc etc". Get that out the way, I dont care if thats your opinion ;o) .

Whats the best way to do it with the audience only able to hear the backing track and not the mwtronome?? Obviously I want to maintain control of both the metronome and backing track as I dont trust anyone else to sync it . Software available?? or is there an easier less techy way to do it??

Cheers,

Rich.
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2014, 06:26 PM
jornthedrummer jornthedrummer is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Use an iPad, phone or any mp3 player. Pan a click track to one side, backing track to the other side. Send the backing track to the bands mixer and get a mix back together with the other instruments or vocal you want to hear. Send the click track directly to your own headphone amp. Blend with the monitor mix from your mixer.
A Rolls 351 is a nice little headphone amp that can do the above. You can purchase a bracket so it can be mounted on your drum hardware.

I find it important to be in control of the click volume - so have your own headphone amp at a place within reach.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2014, 07:34 PM
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BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

I used to get all worried about having the click then decided "I don't need no steenking click" and began developing to the "minus one" tracks sans click track. It gets me way deeper into the movement of the music and as a result my perception of time is way more spot-on.

I had a soundguy the other night say "Usually I have to reset the tap delay every chorus because drummers usually wander of the tempo a little bit but I've not had to do that once with you".

(Tap delay is when the soundguy sets the delay rate by tapping on a pad, like grabbing a tempo on a rhythm watch)

I'd be lying if I said that didn't feel awesome to hear. :D
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2014, 11:13 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

I have a great way to do this but, it will cost you $800 up front.

1. Get a Roland SPD-SX

2. Learn to use some kind of recording program

3. Record your backing tracks and break them into segments which may or may not be looped.

4. Use E drum pads and the available 4 external triggers on the right hand side of your kit and place the SPD on the left side. When you need more than four pads, you will have to hit the smaller pads on the SPD.

The reason you should break the backing tracks into segments instead of trying to play the entire song is to avoid the inevitable train wreck. If something goes wrong on a whole song backing track, you are screwed. There is no way to reset it.

If they are segmented, the worst case is A) someone gets off tempo or B) you forget or mis cue something. All you have to do is hit the kill switch and come back in in the next segment.

With the music I play, I can generally add a tambourine, closed HH or some other kind of click that is audible but fits in with the song in order to help everyone stay in tempo. It's only necessary in some segments that don't have a "built it" tempo to it (like extended, drawn out string or horn notes)

You will have to train your band to play in tempo. The SPD is a tempo GOD. You follow it, no matter what. It is very stubborn but it is always right.

If it's something you want to pursue, send me a PM and I can pass along everything I've picked up over the last two years. It's completely awesome and I'm surprised that I never see anyone else doing it. Sure, I'd rather have keys, horns, two guitarists etc but I do not have that luxury. I play in a couple of 3 piece bands and try to keep the backing minimal.
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2014, 03:38 PM
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Autopilot Autopilot is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jornthedrummer View Post
Use an iPad, phone or any mp3 player. Pan a click track to one side, backing track to the other side. Send the backing track to the bands mixer and get a mix back together with the other instruments or vocal you want to hear. Send the click track directly to your own headphone amp. Blend with the monitor mix from your mixer.
A Rolls 351 is a nice little headphone amp that can do the above. You can purchase a bracket so it can be mounted on your drum hardware.

I find it important to be in control of the click volume - so have your own headphone amp at a place within reach.

This is pretty much what I do with my Ipad. I have a small table that clamps to my hi hat stand. I actually have all of the tracks on a playlist in the order we play them live.I just stop and start is as I go. Ive never had a problem with it.
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2017, 04:25 PM
shreedhan shreedhan is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Seeing Eye View Post
Hi everyone, new here so sorry if this has been asked before!

Looking to put some backing tracks and samples etc into my bands songs. From a live view point obviously the best way to do this properly is to make sure I play to mentronome so the band doesnt go out and thus render the backing track useless.Obviously needs to be synced with the backing track... Im not overly tech savvy, electronics are pretty much witch craft to me. I do trigger however... "Blah blah blah triggers are cheating etc etc". Get that out the way, I dont care if thats your opinion ;o) .

Whats the best way to do it with the audience only able to hear the backing track and not the mwtronome?? Obviously I want to maintain control of both the metronome and backing track as I dont trust anyone else to sync it . Software available?? or is there an easier less techy way to do it??

Cheers,

Rich.
Hey Rich

Sounds like you want a set-up similar to mine, I wrote a guide about it on my blog if you want to check it out.

http://ghostnotesblog.com/live-backing-track-drummers/


Here's the basic setup of what I use though:
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:08 PM
TimZimm TimZimm is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

I've had success with a metronome which is fed to the mixer and then back to the drummers headphone mix. The Korg MA-1 which I found here is my weapon of choice. Reliable.
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:45 PM
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sticksnstonesrus sticksnstonesrus is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Abelton Live. More magic than you'll know what to do with.
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:30 AM
Midiglitch Midiglitch is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
I used to get all worried about having the click then decided "I don't need no steenking click" and began developing to the "minus one" tracks sans click track. It gets me way deeper into the movement of the music and as a result my perception of time is way more spot-on.

I had a soundguy the other night say "Usually I have to reset the tap delay every chorus because drummers usually wander of the tempo a little bit but I've not had to do that once with you".

(Tap delay is when the soundguy sets the delay rate by tapping on a pad, like grabbing a tempo on a rhythm watch)

I'd be lying if I said that didn't feel awesome to hear. :D
I'm new here so I'm not sure if you're joking or referencing a previous post...??
But, if not, could you elaborate on the "minus one" tracks and playing without a click part?
Cheers
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:36 AM
KamaK KamaK is online now
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midiglitch View Post
I'm new here so I'm not sure if you're joking or referencing a previous post...??
But, if not, could you elaborate on the "minus one" tracks and playing without a click part?
Cheers
A "Minus One" track is a track that contains an accompaniment... It's called a "Minus One" track because there was a company called "Music Minus One" that produced bajillions of them. They typically were associated with Karaoke (minus the vocals) but then came out with playalongs and band oriented stuff (Scratch track, harmonies, strings, ambients, etc).

At best, they're an extremely powerful tool and give a sparsely instrumented cover band a full, tight, and rich sound with very little ramp-up time.
At worst, they're a crutch that results in all cover bands sounding exactly the same and stifles musicianship and creative expression.

Last edited by KamaK; 01-21-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2018, 09:32 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
I have a great way to do this but, it will cost you $800 up front.

1. Get a Roland SPD-SX
Agreed, it's the most straight-forward way to go, with the least amount of extra gear and bringing a laptop onstage.

The super simple way to go is create a stereo file with a click/sequence (whatever you like to listen to) on one side, and the house feed (track) on the other (of course, each will be mono.) So the house gets the track, and you get the click, plus however much track you want by way of a mixer.

There is a way to get the Roland to play a stereo house track, and send a click on another output, but it's somewhat inelegant. It has to do with sub-sounds, sub output, and linking pads. (I've talked to Roland about why a pad will make 2 stereo sounds, and there are two stereo outputs, yet both sounds have to go out only one output or the other. They completely ignored me.)

Quote:
3. Record your backing tracks and break them into segments which may or may not be looped.

The reason you should break the backing tracks into segments instead of trying to play the entire song is to avoid the inevitable train wreck. If something goes wrong on a whole song backing track, you are screwed. There is no way to reset it.

If they are segmented, the worst case is A) someone gets off tempo or B) you forget or mis cue something. All you have to do is hit the kill switch and come back in in the next segment.
Yes, however, there shouldn't be train wrecks on the part of you or the other players. If there's a problem staying on the click, you have to work on that... not devise a fail-safe that can further jeopardize the vibe of the song if not implemented correctly.

I've been performing with a click & tracks since as early as 1985, and have never ever had a problem staying with the track. I'm not amazing, I just know how to work with a click (hint: the mix is the most important thing for success.) That's not to say there haven't been train wrecks, but the occasional ones have been due to technically inadequate (read: inexpensive) equipment failure, and was always out of our control.

The Roland is pretty decent with no moving parts, I've been beating one up since 2011 and no problems. It has 2g of ram, which is 3 hours of stereo content at CD quality (16/44.1) That means you won't run out of memory unless you're playing more than 3 hours of tracks without a few minutes to load new content.

Bermuda
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2018, 12:55 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
there shouldn't be train wrecks on the part of you or the other players
You are absolutely right. The original post was from 4 years ago and I have moved on to playing with people who are able to follow my lead. Playing the tracks straight through is WAY easier and I can pay more attention to the drums.

I also switched to a computer because the SX had limited storage and mine wouldn't hold more than about 17 songs. I recently learned that you can open up the SX and simply install a larger flash drive so I may be going back to it.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2018, 03:08 AM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
I also switched to a computer because the SX had limited storage and mine wouldn't hold more than about 17 songs. I recently learned that you can open up the SX and simply install a larger flash drive so I may be going back to it.
2gb isn't enough ram? Wow... that's certainly more than 17 songs, unless they're each longer than 10 minutes!

I also didn't know the ram was expandable, but I've never come close to the limit anyway.

Bermuda
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2018, 06:31 AM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Backing tracks and metronome.

I have a hard time understanding the whole byte measurements and sampling rate thing and I never took the time to analyze it.

I just looked at a WAV folder with 40 songs and it was only 1.67 GB so I'm not sure what the issue is. Maybe just a bad card?


I know for a fact that I couldn't get more than about 17 to load until I got the "not enough memory" message. And that was after I erased all the factory files. It also took a full 15 minutes to download a new set of files and that was cutting it to close for a gig situation.

From what I know now, it was probably a bad card. Roland customer support was of no help with tech issues. I remember having a problem with the tempo of looped files. There wouldn't keep the real tempo and wishing a few measures, they'd start being out of sync.

I finally gave up and went to a computer. It was a shame because the machine had so much potential.

One of these days I will revisit it......or not

And, West Plaza Rocked! So did chocolate milk from Cowbell :)
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