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  #361  
Old 04-11-2014, 01:32 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHeelDrummer View Post
http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/dr...ictures-592964

From Link:

"NAMM 2014: Ludwig had a new range and plenty of awesome finishes to show at this year's NAMM.

Most eye-catching was the new Signet 105 range. An entry-level kit aiming to deliver plenty of higher end features. The name refers to Ludwig's 105 years of American drum crafting."


Music Radar review... thats where I saw it. I know it shouldnt matter... but it turned me off a little bit to see it listed there and I believed it to be an unfair label.



Seems fair, MR probably looking at the price first (like everyone else) 500-$1000 can easily be considered entry level. The drumming community has to date been conditioned to view hybrid composite lugs as an entry level thing. Less obvious entry level feature would be non adjustable BD spurs, altho pretty sure the next gen SIG105 will have adjustable spurs, every other $1000 kit has em.





Quote:
"...please accept my apology for my repeated attempts to educate you, that was completely my fault and must have been very frustrating for you."

Bermuda

No need to apologize, we can all comfortably assume everyone reading this forum is thankful for your knowledge and willingness to educate.
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  #362  
Old 04-11-2014, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by JosephDAqui View Post
Thanks man, that's what I thought, and I did play the 4pc signet at a local GC and I was floored - the attack of birch and the body of maple. I have a maple gretsch renown which is a reference point for me, and after playing that often, and a dw kit at my rehearsals, I'm starting to lose interest in birch. The SC's are good, to make mine better I upgraded the hoops, but there are things I noticed that still makes the SC's cheap:

1) 6 lugs on 14" floor tom
2) Cheap lugs on the whole kit
3) 8 lugs on the BD.
4) Mysterious birch - although crafted well, still questionable

So I agree, a Signet is a step up.
The Signet also has 8 lugs on the bass but for some reason I am a fan of fewer lugs. even on snares. I Have a ten lug snare that I love and I have an 8 lug snare that I love. But I find few lugs to be so much easier to tune. I also like 5 likes on a 12 inch tom instead of 6. I know most people think differently but for me I find them easier to tune although I do think that more lugs on toms make them have a better feel. But on a snare I like the feel of few lugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Seems fair, MR probably looking at the price first (like everyone else) 500-$1000 can easily be considered entry level. The drumming community has to date been conditioned to view hybrid composite lugs as an entry level thing. Less obvious entry level feature would be non adjustable BD spurs, altho pretty sure the next gen SIG105 will have adjustable spurs, every other $1000 kit has em.
My only knit-pick with this kit are the bass spurs. However my only complaint is that it raises the front end. I actually prefer that they are non adjustable I just wish the would have cut 2 inches off of them. Maybe in the next gen they will have different spurs on the 22 and 20.
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  #363  
Old 04-11-2014, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
My only knit-pick with this kit are the bass spurs. However my only complaint is that it raises the front end. I actually prefer that they are non adjustable I just wish the would have cut 2 inches off of them. Maybe in the next gen they will have different spurs on the 22 and 20.
You say 2, someone else says 3... WTH, just make them adjustable, its a $1000 drum kit.

Pretty sure LUDWIG will see those BD spurs as a feature easily improved upon.
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  #364  
Old 04-11-2014, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

The spurs are the same for both 20 & 22" drums, but are mounted in slightly different places on the shell so that the height in front stays about the same on each drum.

But the spur adjustment - or perhaps the ability to mount it at a choice of heights on thne shell - would be all that I would change about the Signets. I suppose I could just drill some new holes a little higher, so the drum would sit a little lower... I've already rendered them unoriginal by installing a tom mount plate on each!

Bermuda
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  #365  
Old 04-11-2014, 08:01 AM
harvestdrum harvestdrum is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by drummerjims View Post



My only knit-pick with this kit are the bass spurs. However my only complaint is that it raises the front end. I actually prefer that they are non adjustable I just wish the would have cut 2 inches off of them. Maybe in the next gen they will have different spurs on the 22 and 20.

My thoughts too regarding the spur. I really don't car if its adjustable. I love the sleek new look of this spur, it's really beautifly done. Like you, just shorten it a few....and that's all!




Signets vs Stage Customs? For me its simple, I like the fact that that I'm getting a real North American Maple shell made at Ludwig's factory. I like the simple design of the drums, as well as the looks. The hardware is well done with some new innovative features.
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  #366  
Old 04-16-2014, 05:31 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I may be the first drummer to take Signets into the studio, and here they are!



These are 22/12/16, and they sounded like Ludwigs, as they should! The guys and engineer have heard a lot of Ludwig kits from me, and they loved these, as do I. They'll appear on Al's new album, due... um, er... someday. Soon. :)

As with my 20" kick, the tom mount is not stock, I installed it (I don't hang toms from cymbal stands.) Also dig the old 1400 stands! Old school is how I roll (so to speak.)

Bermuda
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  #367  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I may be the first drummer to take Signets into the studio, and here they are!



These are 22/12/16, and they sounded like Ludwigs, as they should! The guys and engineer have heard a lot of Ludwig kits from me, and they loved these, as do I. They'll appear on Al's new album, due... um, er... someday. Soon. :)

As with my 20" kick, the tom mount is not stock, I installed it (I don't hang toms from cymbal stands.) Also dig the old 1400 stands! Old school is how I roll (so to speak.)

Bermuda

You beat me to it, my band is going to the studio on Saturday where I will be laying down the last few tracks for our album with my signets.

Also I don't think I mentioned it before but That antler mount looks killer on those drums. I have always been into those mounts, and wish that ludwig would still offer them.
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  #368  
Old 04-16-2014, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

They still offer the mounting plate, but we're on our own for the 1781 holder. In good shape they fetch $75 on ebay.

Bermuda
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  #369  
Old 04-19-2014, 12:09 PM
daniboun daniboun is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Hummm

That Zebrawood finish makes me remind me my Tamburo Opera (made in Italy)....


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  #370  
Old 04-28-2014, 07:53 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quick question regarding the mounting of the Terabeat rack toms on the crash stands.

Do I need to get heavy-duty stands (Atlas Pro), or will mediocre stands suffice (Atlas Standard)?

Are the Tom holders (that tie the tom to the cymbal stand) included in the shell kit, or does "hardware not included" mean I need two of these?
TIA
-kamak

Last edited by KamaK; 04-28-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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  #371  
Old 04-28-2014, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

The clamp-on holders are supposed to be included with the kit, and as long as you align the hanging tom over a leg on the stand (in the same way you should position a cymbal boom arm over a leg...) it should be plenty sturdy.

Bermuda
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  #372  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:19 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The clamp-on holders are supposed to be included with the kit, and as long as you align the hanging tom over a leg on the stand (in the same way you should position a cymbal boom arm over a leg...) it should be plenty sturdy.

Bermuda
Excellent and thanks for the fast reply.

When I order a Terabeat kit, how do I go about ordering an extra (Gigabeat style) 14x14 floor tom in a matching finish? I do not see this 'option' on any of the dealer websites. Do I just tell the salesperson/dealer and make them figure it out?

I'd really prefer to get all 5 pieces up-front, as I imagine I'll have a hell of a time getting the 5th piece (in a matching finish) a decade from now.
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  #373  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Yep, your dealer can order the extra piece, there are catalog #s for them. There's also an 8" tom available.
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  #374  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:30 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Yep, your dealer can order the extra piece, there are catalog #s for them. There's also an 8" tom available.
Excellent. I've added it to my worksheet.

As a former professional guitarist and someone fairly new to the world of percussion, I have to say that I am surprised by the difficulty (and potential expense) that I've encountered procuring a full kit from a single vendor. If it looks like I'm going about this incorrectly, please ping me via PM before I blow a year's worth of my happy-fun-time budget.

Thanx again for the advice.
-KamaK
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  #375  
Old 05-01-2014, 05:11 AM
tclem tclem is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The clamp-on holders are supposed to be included with the kit, and as long as you align the hanging tom over a leg on the stand (in the same way you should position a cymbal boom arm over a leg...) it should be plenty sturdy.

Bermuda
Wait, are the clamp-on holders supposed to be included with the gigabeat kit as well? I didn't receive any for my 12" tom with my kit.
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  #376  
Old 05-01-2014, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I believe they are included. It would be like a floor tom not coming with the legs required to hold it up. If the store claims they're not... make them give you one anyway, and make sure it has the correct 12mm post.

Tell 'em Bermuda sez so.
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  #377  
Old 05-01-2014, 08:38 AM
harvestdrum harvestdrum is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I never received any sort of rack tom bracket with mine. Fresh out of the factory box too. Didnt bother me though, not to many kits ever did.
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  #378  
Old 05-01-2014, 08:44 AM
harvestdrum harvestdrum is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Excellent. I've added it to my worksheet.

As a former professional guitarist and someone fairly new to the world of percussion, I have to say that I am surprised by the difficulty (and potential expense) that I've encountered procuring a full kit from a single vendor. If it looks like I'm going about this incorrectly, please ping me via PM before I blow a year's worth of my happy-fun-time budget.

Thanx again for the advice.
-KamaK

That's quite the list! I can understand wanting an all Atlas hardware kit but you could save a few dollars and some heft with some other options.

I had a decent pile of DW 9000 and Pearl 2000 hardware but started getting tired of all that weight. Slowly sold off and replaced with lighter hardware.
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  #379  
Old 05-01-2014, 03:01 PM
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drummerjims drummerjims is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I did not received anything other than the triad mounts with mine and they were fresh out of the box. However I had intended to mount it on a snare stand from the beginning.
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  #380  
Old 05-01-2014, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Well then, let me verify it with Ludwig.
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  #381  
Old 05-01-2014, 04:12 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by harvestdrum View Post
That's quite the list! I can understand wanting an all Atlas hardware kit but you could save a few dollars and some heft with some other options.

I had a decent pile of DW 9000 and Pearl 2000 hardware but started getting tired of all that weight. Slowly sold off and replaced with lighter hardware.
I hear you, and agree with your two points (price and weight). I have found that the long term benefits of the single-vendor philosophy typically outweigh the short term gains of multi-vendor packages. I'm well-enought to understand that it's an entirely personal choice/quirk of mine, and that neither philosophy is really any better than the other.

I'll ask the dealer about the tom mounts. I'd be disconcerted if someone allowed me to buy $4k worth of kit from them and didn't include a way to mount the toms. I'm really surprised that Ludwig doesn't offer fully kitted packages, or a web-based BOM 'configurator' application that does this work for the customer.

Thanx again for all the assistance.
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  #382  
Old 05-01-2014, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
I'll ask the dealer about the tom mounts. I'd be disconcerted if someone allowed me to buy $4k worth of kit from them and didn't include a way to mount the toms. I'm really surprised that Ludwig doesn't offer fully kitted packages...
I'd be surprised too, that's why I have a call in to them right now.

Bermuda
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  #383  
Old 05-01-2014, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Ludwig's dealer price sheet on the Signets says they come with tom holders, 1 for the Gigabeat, and 2 for the Terabeat. But I'll still confirm directly with Ludwig.

Bermuda
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  #384  
Old 05-01-2014, 07:38 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Looking at the Signet Brochure, I think I see a double holder on the left of the 'teak' kit and an Elite Tom Holder on the right.

I'll probably just add two doubles to my BOM if they're not included.
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  #385  
Old 05-02-2014, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Well, contrary to what Ludwig's price sheet says, one of the Ludwig gentleman in the know tells me that they do not come with the mounts.

As promised, I am surprised!

Bermuda
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  #386  
Old 05-02-2014, 03:15 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Well, contrary to what Ludwig's price sheet says, one of the Ludwig gentleman in the know tells me that they do not come with the mounts.

As promised, I am surprised!

Bermuda
Like me, you probably read "Triad 3-point tom suspension mounts" and didn't realize that this only handles to the tom-side of the mounting equation. It's market slang for "You can mount this mountable rack tom on a rack tom mount, cause we put a mount on it, and only used 3 screws.", but sounds waaaaaaaay cooler. This possibly explains my desire to own one.
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  #387  
Old 05-02-2014, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I think most companies provide the accessory clamp, no? And it does say so on their price sheet! Oh well, sorry guys, that's not what I expected.

But if you have a good relationship with the dealer, I hope they'll throw one in. If they're selling at MAP, there's enough wiggle room to cough it up. :)

Actually, even if you have a bad - or no - relationship with them, they should throw it in to encourage the sale.

Bermuda
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  #388  
Old 05-08-2014, 06:24 PM
Michael Madio Michael Madio is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I've had my Signet's for a little while now, been loving them ... they sound great. I recently ran into a bit of an issue and am looking for ideas. I'm considering using it as my gigging kit, my current setup for the kick drum is to mount an internal mic using a Kelly Shu and use a DIY sub-kick in front. The Shu mount requires leather straps that are installed under the screw/bolt of the lugs but these lugs have no screws/bolts so there's no place to mount the straps. Any ideas on mounting a Kelly Shu in the Signet kick drum?
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  #389  
Old 05-09-2014, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Kelly Shu... yeah, that requires a bit of a workaround.

You could easily mount the leather loops on the leg mount screws, but you're limited to that position, and would need a pillow to help support the piece (since it can't be attached from above.) The only other solution I can think of is to drill the shell and mount screws where you want to affix the leather loops, but that means a real commitment to the drums, and the positioning. Personally, I wouldn't do that.

I'd simply lay the mic inside on a pillow, or mount it on a short stand pointed through the hole.

Bermuda
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  #390  
Old 05-09-2014, 12:59 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by Michael Madio View Post
I've had my Signet's for a little while now, been loving them ... they sound great. I recently ran into a bit of an issue and am looking for ideas. I'm considering using it as my gigging kit, my current setup for the kick drum is to mount an internal mic using a Kelly Shu and use a DIY sub-kick in front. The Shu mount requires leather straps that are installed under the screw/bolt of the lugs but these lugs have no screws/bolts so there's no place to mount the straps. Any ideas on mounting a Kelly Shu in the Signet kick drum?
I took a look at a signet kits today, and was looking for things that I would have to deal with after-purchase. Not only is there no place to secure a suspension-mount for internal microphones, there's no breather hole to run the cable/clip through. You'd basically have to drill a hole, which would likely change the sound of the toms.

While this isn't necessarily a reason not to buy this series, it's definitely a pre-purchase consideration you'll need to work out.

On a semi-related note.

I had a look at an Alpine Blue kit today. Aside from the internal-mic mounting challenge, my thoughts were.

Nice looking kit. Really good sounding kit. I had 2 complaints that may or may not matter to anyone else.

If you're going to be playing under colored lighting, go for the teak or ebony. If you're going to be under white or natural lighting, the blue should be fine. The blue may be an ordeal for your lighting guy. It's also going to be an issue for your wardrobe guy if you're a stage performer and your producer uses terms like "your visual dynamic". You might have to retire that Boston hockey jersey you've worn for the last 10 years on stage.

I didn't like the finish. It felt like unfinished wood with a 300 grit sanding and a spray coat of Deft. I had expected a satin-like finish, and fear that a misplaced cup of coffee, sports-drink, or porter could be the end of an otherwise nice looking shell.
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  #391  
Old 05-09-2014, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
Not only is there no place to secure a suspension-mount for internal microphones, there's no breather hole to run the cable/clip through. You'd basically have to drill a hole, which would likely change the sound of the toms.

While this isn't necessarily a reason not to buy this series, it's definitely a pre-purchase consideration you'll need to work out.
Agreed, and honestly, I wouldn't modify the drums any more than necessary... said the guy who installed a tom mount plate on the kick. :)

But holes for cables wouldn't result in a perceivable difference in sound, and you could certainly install a traditional grommet or screw-type air vent for a more "factory" look.

Bermuda
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  #392  
Old 05-09-2014, 05:34 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Hope I'm not breaking any forum rules. If anyone was wondering about the price of the option toms, here is what I was told today by a dealer.

Quote:
Signet 105 14" Floor Tom (4-6 week backorder): List Price $460, Our Price $299.99 (Part Number LSF440
SLA)

Signet 105 8" Tom (4-6 week backorder): List Price $306, Our Price $199.99 (Part Number LST780SLA)
Just delete this post if it's a violation.
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  #393  
Old 05-09-2014, 06:59 PM
harvestdrum harvestdrum is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
I took a look at a signet kits today, and was looking for things that I would have to deal with after-purchase. Not only is there no place to secure a suspension-mount for internal microphones, there's no breather hole to run the cable/clip through. You'd basically have to drill a hole, which would likely change the sound of the toms.

While this isn't necessarily a reason not to buy this series, it's definitely a pre-purchase consideration you'll need to work out.

On a semi-related note.

I had a look at an Alpine Blue kit today. Aside from the internal-mic mounting challenge, my thoughts were.

Nice looking kit. Really good sounding kit. I had 2 complaints that may or may not matter to anyone else.

If you're going to be playing under colored lighting, go for the teak or ebony. If you're going to be under white or natural lighting, the blue should be fine. The blue may be an ordeal for your lighting guy. It's also going to be an issue for your wardrobe guy if you're a stage performer and your producer uses terms like "your visual dynamic". You might have to retire that Boston hockey jersey you've worn for the last 10 years on stage.

I didn't like the finish. It felt like unfinished wood with a 300 grit sanding and a spray coat of Deft. I had expected a satin-like finish, and fear that a misplaced cup of coffee, sports-drink, or porter could be the end of an otherwise nice looking shell.


It does feel like an unfinished shell but Ludwig does claim that there is a satin like (a new process) spray on the shell. How durable? Who knows at this point. I guess Bermuda will know first lol as his probably is the first one in play.

I've yet to play mine in a gig :(
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  #394  
Old 05-09-2014, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I've been gigging mine exclusively since late-January, an d no problems. But, I'm also very careful about liquids, scrapes, etc around any of my drums, so I can't vouch for the resilience of the Signet finish. Judging by the feel of it, I'd be cautious with them.

Tung oil might be an easy, effective, and nice-looking method for better protecting the finish. Fortunately, the hardware removes and replaces MUCH faster than standard lugs, so you'd save time as well!

Bermuda
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  #395  
Old 05-11-2014, 05:34 AM
Michael Madio Michael Madio is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Agreed, and honestly, I wouldn't modify the drums any more than necessary... said the guy who installed a tom mount plate on the kick. :)

But holes for cables wouldn't result in a perceivable difference in sound, and you could certainly install a traditional grommet or screw-type air vent for a more "factory" look.

Bermuda
I'm committed to mine already so no concern there ... I did the same thing and installed a tom mount as well. As for vent holes, not a big deal either as I typically install an XLR jack directly in the shell. I'll probably just end up installing some small bolts for the Shu.
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  #396  
Old 06-01-2014, 02:35 AM
rob42771 rob42771 is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

I went to Guitar Center today just to have a look around. The Signet drums were out for demo'ing. I had a few minutes to play them and was really impressed! GC did change the heads on them to clear Emperor's on the toms and an EMAD on the bass. Surprisingly enough, the GC employee actually advised against buying the kit (not that I was going to buy it anyway)...just very surprised that an actual employee of GC would go out of his way to advise not buying it.
Anyway, this kit sounds really good...I was very impressed.
-Rob
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  #397  
Old 06-01-2014, 02:44 AM
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GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

Did he give reasons for not buying?
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  #398  
Old 06-01-2014, 03:46 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Did he give reasons for not buying?
I'm curious as well.

As someone who was inches away from buying one of these.... The competition at this price range (950 for a bop, 1100 for a rock) is fierce. You can buy a really really nice kit for $1100 if you're willing to compromise on the entire "Made in The USA, with hardware made in APAC) thing. In my case, I ended up with a Renown + a Ludwig snare.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:11 AM
rob42771 rob42771 is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Did he give reasons for not buying?
Let me state that I do not agree nor disagree with what he said. Again, I was hugely surprised by how good the drums sounded.

He had expressed his lack of confidence in the drop in lugs. He believes that over time the lugs would disrupt their placement in the shell and loosen with head changes and the like. Like others have stated, he also disliked the bass drum spurs. He also brought up points of frustration he had experienced with set up, but I failed to see his point on that.

Anyway...I am more surprised that someone who is suppose to sell drums is advising against buying them.

Rob
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:57 AM
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bermuda bermuda is online now
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Default Re: Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

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Originally Posted by rob42771 View Post
Anyway...I am more surprised that someone who is suppose to sell drums is advising against buying them.
It's good to know that a salesperson cares enough to discuss a product's pros and cons, and isn't just trying to make a sale... any sale. That's especially surprising coming from a GC guy! But it's a huge disservice to the customer when they don't know what they're talking about! I don't know what (if any) kind of info was given to the people in the stores when the drums came out in January, or if those people that got the info are even there anymore. Opinions about certain aspects of the drums are fine, IF they're based on his or various customers' experience. But I guarantee that the salesperson has no actual experience using the drums, and it's very unlikely at this early point since they're release, that there's feedback of any kind at the retail level for him to assess anything about them.

Bermuda
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