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  #1  
Old 01-06-2014, 07:58 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Default STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED
Location: NY/NJ area
Contact: pfriman@gmail.com


List of stolen items:

Ludwig Vistalite blue:
14x22 kick #1817672
8x12 tom #1816566
9x13 tom #1852665
16x16 tom #1818078

Ludwig Supraphonic chrome:
5x14 snare #1817237

3 Remo Roto-Toms with Full Trimline Reflector Shells (6" 8" & 10") on Pearl stand

3 lacquered wooden naval ammo cases, lined with foam, containing Ludwig Hercules hardware (snare stand, boom cymbal stand, 3 straight cymbal stands, hi hat stand, throne stand, and Ludwig Speed King pedal)

Ludwig Canister Throne silver sparkle #202773

Anvil cases:
5x14 #E1944
8x12 #E20527

Generic fiber cases lined with foam and stenciled with my id:
14x17, 18x22 & 18x26

Latin Percussion:
solid bar chimes
5" black beauty cowbell
7" woodblock

Neary drum torque wrench

Rogers:
Dual Matic Hi Hat clutch
"Super X" external muffler

D'Aleo's Stick Caddy with assorted mallets, sticks, and brushes

Miscellaneous accessories
Attached Images
 
  #2  
Old 01-06-2014, 08:01 PM
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Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Sorry to hear about this. If the drums match the photo, it should be a little easier to spot than normal since there's no bottom hoops on the toms. It's good that you have the serial numbers as well. Really hope you get them back soon!
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2014, 08:04 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Thank you, Jeremy. They are the drums in the photo; however the bottom hoops were removed from the toms just for that recording session.
  #4  
Old 01-06-2014, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

where are you from?

ny or nj?

im from ny, ill keep my eyes open. copying the serial numbers to my phone incase i run into them.
  #5  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:03 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Thank you, v.zarate. I'm from NY; however, the drumset was stolen while enroute to NY from NJ so it could be anywhere. Copying the serial numbers to your phone is a great suggestion. I hope others will follow your lead.
  #6  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:16 PM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Really very sorry to read this, what a crappy way to start the new year,

You have some very detailed info about the missing gear, can I suggest you use a couple of these websites to spread the word:

https://www.gear-track.com/

http://www.screamingstone.com/

http://www.acousticmusic.org/Links-S...ies-sp-70.html

might also be worthwhile notifying local Guitar Center, Sam Ash and LIDC stores.

Hope you get them back.

Last edited by HMNY; 01-06-2014 at 10:16 PM. Reason: spelling
  #7  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Notify local pawn shops. You have the serial numbers. Give that info to every pawn shop you possibly can.

Also look in local pawn shops, everywhere that will buy used drums.
  #8  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:33 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfriman View Post
Thank you, v.zarate. I'm from NY; however, the drumset was stolen while enroute to NY from NJ so it could be anywhere. Copying the serial numbers to your phone is a great suggestion. I hope others will follow your lead.
Sorry to hear this....when were they stolen,and how were they stolen in route?Vintage or reissue vistalites,as the drums in the pic appear to be vintage.

Steve B
  #9  
Old 01-06-2014, 11:39 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Thank you, HMNY. I am now registered on those websites.

Thank you, kyle. I will notify and look in as many pawn shops in the NY/NJ metro area as I can.

You are correct, tamadrm. They are vintage. The family who was storing and transporting them for me sold them without my authorization.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
  #10  
Old 01-06-2014, 11:55 PM
TheDrumster TheDrumster is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfriman View Post
You are correct, tamadrm. They are vintage. The family who was storing and transporting them for me sold them without my authorization.
FYI...if the family sold them to a person that is unaware they are stolen, and they paid fair market value, then your only recourse may be against the family. At least that's Massachusetts law....

Bummer. BTW, I used to own a similar kit (the blue vistalites) from the 70's.... My first real kit.
  #11  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:18 AM
MPortnoy MPortnoy is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfriman View Post
You are correct, tamadrm. They are vintage. The family who was storing and transporting them for me sold them without my authorization.
Sorry to hear this......If the family you're talking about has any contact number of the person they sold them to, I guess your best bet is trying to obtain it from them (as well as the money) and talk to the person who bought them.

Good luck
  #12  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:47 AM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

"The family who was storing and transporting them for me sold them without my authorization."

If this is the case, have you at least approached this family for an explanation?

What lead up to them having possession of your drums, I imagine you must have felt comfortable previously leaving the drums with them?
  #13  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:51 AM
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GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Were you behind on your storage fees and they sold them to recoup the fees?
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2014, 09:35 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Thank you, M. Portnoy. The family I'm talking about refuses to give me the contact information of who bought them.

Thank you, HMNY, the family refuses to give me an explanation. They were being stored in their house in NJ as a favor to me.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
  #15  
Old 01-07-2014, 09:41 PM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

This all sounds rather unfortunate, however, if you have no already done so, I would consider involving the police, this might provide some leverage in terms of an explanation, and or the ID of the purchaser.
  #16  
Old 01-07-2014, 09:44 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Thank you, GRUNTERSDAD. There were no storage fees. They offered to store them at their residence as a favor to me, then sold them without my knowledge or authorization.

Thank you, HMNY. I have already involved the police, but also posted the serial numbers here so my fellow drummers can crosscheck them against any blue vistalite drumkit they may happen to come across.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
  #17  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:05 PM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

What I don't understand, unless there is more to this story than meets the eye, is that you essentially know who the thieves are, and instead of directly approaching them, or getting the authorities involved to actively pursue this family, you have chosen to issue serial numbers in the hope the drums may be located, even though, you have a much better chance of locating the drums by finding out who the family sold the drums on to, something that the police should be able to do in short order.
  #18  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:31 PM
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Zickos Zickos is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

It doesn't sound like the party with the drums is the thief. It sounds like the party who SOLD the drums is the thief. IMHO, they should be held accountable unless there is more to the story to which we are not privy.
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:54 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

I wonder where the law sits on this situation. Someone agreed to let pfriman store his drums at their house. Does that give them any rights at all to the property? Was there supposed to be something in writing for an arrangement like this? Did pfriman relinquish any rights when he agreed to this without anything written down? Sounds like it's best to get any agreement like this in writing, judging from hindsight. From a moral POV, the guy should not have sold your drums, assuming it is as cut and dried as it sounds.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:09 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Thank you, HMNY. I know who the thieves are and have directly approached them and gotten the authorities involved, but the family refuses to divulge to anyone who they sold the drums to. The police are unwilling to compel them to do so.

Thank you, Zickos. I agree. I am more interested, however, in recovering my property than in who should be held legally accountable.

Thank you, larryace. I agree. Hindsight is 20/20 and the guy should not have sold my drums.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
  #21  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:24 PM
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Roy E. Munson Roy E. Munson is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

ya this sounds legit. "I know who had the drums last, who sold the drums illegally (allegedly), I involved the authorities and they cant help me (allegedly), so I'm going to post details, pics, and serial #'s so I can track down the drums on my own and get these bad guys!" good luck with that.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:26 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfriman View Post
Thank you, larryace. I agree. Hindsight is 20/20 and the guy should not have sold my drums.
Wouldn't the guy who sold your drums be the thief? You entrusted your kit to (assuming) him and he sells it? That can't be OK, I hope.
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

If you lost the drums because someone sold them, good luck. The person who bought them probably plan on playing them, and unless they're like Bo they're probably not going to get rid of them anytime soon.
  #24  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:34 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfriman View Post
Thank you, HMNY. I know who the thieves are and have directly approached them and gotten the authorities involved, but the family refuses to divulge to anyone who they sold the drums to. The police are unwilling to compel them to do so.
This is a civil court matter,with the burden of proof on the plantiff(you),against the defendant(the people that sold your drums.You have to prove,by a preponderance of the evidence,that these people were in possession of your drums,and sold then without your concent or knowledge,to a person or persons unknown.A judge,being so convinced by your evidence,can by judicial order,compell them to disclose then name of the individual,who they sold the drums to.

The police don't get involved in civil matters.They also can't force information out of an individual.That's TV

Your going to have to produce paperwork,signed by poth parties,that your drums were being stored that this residence.Your going to have to prove,that you had an agreement or contract.Signed documents.You're going to need proof of ownership,and value,usually with written and photo documantation,as well as wittnesses.

All you need to do,is go to small claims court,and file a complaint,and have a summons to appear issued to the defendant.As a civilian,you can represent yourself,without an attorney,but if you know any lawyers,nows the time to call in a favor.

Remember,it's not about what you can say.......it's about what you can PROVE.Good luck

Steve B
  #25  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:35 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Thank you, Roy E. Munson, for your efforts on my behalf.

Thank you, larryace, I agree.

Thank you, kyle, I agree. That is why I am asking everyone to keep their eyes peeled.

Thank you, tamadrm, but small claims court is only empowered to award at best a money judgment for a fraction of the value of the drums, not compel the recovery of the drums themselves.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
  #26  
Old 01-08-2014, 12:29 AM
HMNY HMNY is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Pfriman,

When were these drums stolen, it seems you posted a similar tale of woe back in February 2012?

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/...d/#entry926427
  #27  
Old 01-08-2014, 12:45 AM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMNY View Post
Pfriman,

When were these drums stolen, it seems you posted a similar tale of woe back in February 2012?

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/...d/#entry926427
Thanks,nice catch. The story was different the last time,and I didn't recognize the handle.Same guy..same scam. A case, if real is CLOSED,at this time,since the statute of limitations on everything except Homicide,runs out after 5 years in NY state.The original date of occurance was in 1987

I recall the circumstance of the hiest ,being different also.They weren't in transit,during the last tale,they were "stolen" from a residence.This is BS and a scam,and after over 20 years in the NYPD,this is NOT how they do business

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 01-08-2014 at 12:55 AM.
  #28  
Old 01-08-2014, 01:30 AM
CCdrummer CCdrummer is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Its the end of a long day, and I am probably missing out on the obvious (wouldn't be the first time) but what is the point of this if it is a scam? Whats the gain?
  #29  
Old 01-08-2014, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCdrummer View Post
Its the end of a long day, and I am probably missing out on the obvious (wouldn't be the first time) but what is the point of this if it is a scam? Whats the gain?
He's really hard up for a set of Vistas I guess lol

Great catch HMNY.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Wow, intriguing.
(a) there's another drum forum?
(b) somebody had something stolen in 1987, 25 years ago, and is hoping to still find them?
(I thought the picture looked 'dated' to the 80's...the hair)

My guess is they have been sold, bought and re-sold a few times since then. Maybe even parted out on ebay. Time to give up.
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  #31  
Old 01-08-2014, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Ok, this thread officially stinks.

If another mod wants to delete it (and the total of pfriman's posts along with it,) feel free.

Bermuda
  #32  
Old 01-08-2014, 06:10 PM
pfriman pfriman is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Thank you, HMNY, tamadrm, CCdrummer, larryace, opentune, and bermuda. These drums were stolen in 1987. They were in transit from a residence in NJ to my place in NY. NYPD Sgt. Murray is handling the matter. I appreciate everyone wants to be Columbo, but please focus on my original request to keep your eyes peeled for the serial numbers I posted. I would do the same for you, no matter when your drums were stolen.
  #33  
Old 01-08-2014, 06:16 PM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

You really think you're going to recover these drums? I was born in 1988. I have enough time recovering myself.
  #34  
Old 01-08-2014, 06:35 PM
The Old Hyde
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

who even reads the serial numbers on their drums? I don't, and never have. well, once to date my supraphonic but i didn't take the number after and try to tie into some stolen drum database to see if was ever stolen.
  #35  
Old 01-08-2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Set up a Google Alert. When it shows up online (chances are it's gonna) then you'll be alerted. http://google.com/alerts
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2014, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

So they were stolen at least 26 years ago. If you recover anything it would be a miracle. Maybe it's time to let go and accept the likelihood that they are gone forever.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

pfriman,
did you notice that your previous thread was closed by an admin?
So what's your reaction, to simply ignore this and go on creating a new thread?

- - - -

EDIT
I can't believe it - Bermuda closed the thread, the OP went on and created a 2nd one.
Gruntersdad closes that one, the OP went on to create a 3rd one. -> My reaction: BAN.
Then I merged the posts from the 2nd thread into the existing one. End of story.

Last edited by Arky; 01-08-2014 at 09:35 PM.
  #38  
Old 01-08-2014, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If you recover anything it would be a miracle. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOl4oeHZnBk
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2014, 07:45 PM
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GRUNTERSDAD GRUNTERSDAD is offline
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Default Re: STOLEN Ludwig Vistalite Blue Drum Kit REWARD OFFERED

Enough is enough............
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