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Old 01-11-2014, 02:53 AM
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Default A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Quote:
Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar? (minnesota)

I get it, most venues for bands are bars. Bands want to/need to play at bars. Bars want to make money. Bars need to sell booze to make money. Selling booze requires people to come to the venue AND buy booze. Making more money means selling more booze to said persons on given night at given venue. This requires said persons to spend more time at given venue. This means said persons must be entertained enough or be having continuous fun....or investing money on others having fun....increasing the chance of some "after bar" fun.

Now, why exactly is it that, in order for said persons to be having fun, it requires an "at-best mediocre" band performing THE SAME 50 overplayed, over-rated, mondane TOP 40 tunes at an "at-best mediocre" caliber? There is often absolutely NO passion, NO groove, NO dynamics, and at-best mediocre talent resonating from the stage alongside their "at-best mediocre" gear labeled with profanity such as "Peavey", "First Act", "Line 6", "Peavey" and "Peavey". Why is it that in order for a band to be successful in the bar scene, it requires said persons to look like absolute morons out on the dance floor doing the hokey-pokey with each other like f*cking marionettes splashing their $4 cup of beer around? This is an absolute embarrassment to the human specie. The dance floor is for dancing...swing dance, slow dance, line dance, I don't give a f*ck, just don't populate it with some half-assed-cerebral-palsy version of "The Twist". Walt Junior would at least make this shameful form of expression seem acceptable.

Why is it so hard for a REAL BAND, a SOBER band, with REAL TALENT, REAL skill, actual dynamics, a captivating sound, REAL PROFESSIONAL GEAR, playing REAL music, awesome music, timeless, groovey, killer tunes and have a KILLER sound to draw said idiots and become successful at the bar scene?

Is REAL music not drinkable to? Not really. Most people would be more attentive to what is happening on stage than how many ounces are left in their cup.
Most people would fill the dance floor with fists pounding in the air for an entire set before realizing they are thirsty.

I think most people are musical idiots. They are inexperienced. They can't tell quality from crap, or sh*t from Shinolah. They can't get a dead horse to rot, much less pick out a REAL group of musicians with an actual product to offer.

If everyone in the world picked up an instrument, the music business would be where it should be.

So, is there hope for real music at the bar scene?

Please reply with venues if you are aware of any that are interested in offering patrons a worthwhile product, versus GLORIFIED BACKGROUND MUSIC!

AMEN.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cs...280152996.html

Response 1
Quote:
re: Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar?

Sorry bro. Many claim the Twin Cities is a progressive music market. That was true until about 1970. Now all you will hear in clubs is the same set list we played in 1980. If you want to hear music, head for South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida. Talented bands playing quality music.

The TC club scene is a toilet waiting for a good flush!
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ra...280945132.html

Response 2
Quote:
re: Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar? (poserville)

You need to find a different line of work. You refer to the public as 'idiots' several times and define groups by what equipment they use? So if somebody played 'Mustang Sally' on a Custom Shop Gibson through a Diezel amp, THAT would be OK?

When you play cover tunes in a bar, you are not being hired as an artist. You are being hired as a beer salesman. If you can't wrap your brain around that, step the hell back and leave the job to the professionals.

There's a big, wide wonderful world of music out there and there's plenty of room for all types and genres. Focus on what you can do and don't get hung up on everything else.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...281236392.html

Response 3
Quote:
RE: re: Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar? (TRUTH!)

I'm not on anyone's side here. . ..
I keep reading that the venues in MPLS "Twin Cities" want the bands to play for coffee and doughnuts.<-- (Metaphor!) and that the musicians need to bring their family and friend to fill the venue and the venue just sits back and racks in the cash!

And on the other side (The band) I keep reading that the "musician" have put in a Gazillion hours and they should get paid for that alone. And that it is the responsibility of the venue to promote the venue and the band!

Maybe by now you see the problem! And the FIRST band that gets it will start to make the cash!

In today's environment and the cheep marking tools out there "the venues and bands" could spend less then coffee and doughnuts to promote any show and bring it the crowds!!

I'm not saying anther word on this! You both need to figure the rest out on your own.
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...281416747.html

Response 4
Quote:
re: re: Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar? (poserville) (TC attitudes)

"You are being hired as a beer salesman. If you can't wrap your brain around that, step the hell back and leave the job to the professionals."

Ergo, perhaps CL needs a section for musicians and a separate one for "beer salesmen".

I would agree that "idiots" is probably the wrong term to describe bar patrons. Perhaps ignorant would be an applicable term applied to some and at the same time I might suggest that many in the audience have better and wider tastes than the majority of "professional beer salesmen"; but they are merely too polite or too busy socializing to even be listening to "...the same set list we played in 1980."

Personally, I would rather hear a clean iTunes version of the original song playing through the house system than a cover band version that amounts to little more than live karaoke for the impression it leaves (but I digress...).

Without knowing the original poster's set list and definition of "real" music, it is hard to respond as to whether the TC is being deprived of hearing something other than "GLORIFIED BACKGROUND MUSIC" for his group not to be able to get bookings he feels are deserved...

Of course if bar business is down in general and live clubs are closing their doors it just might be due in part to audiences not wanting to hear "...the same set list we played in 1980." Patrons have no other way of telling the players that the music is stale other than to quit wasting their time and money at clubs not offering what they want to hear...

Clubs come and go; local music scenes come and go... and "real" musicians leave their home if that's what it takes to truly pursue the Muse...

At this point in time the TC isn't on any cutting edge... There is a lot of musical talent here, but it seems to be talent related to technique vs originality: Adding up to the plethora of cover bands and "demand" from so many posters that a band must be established and gigs must pay.

I don't know about the South today. I left there long ago because it was either blues, Southern rock or Athens, GA "college-alt" rock... The music I've heard recently from a couple of young bands each having 'Cherry' in their names don't make me think anything down South has changed too much. There is talent to be sure but related to a style or genre vs originality.

I saw some good creative local bands in Denver not too long ago... maybe legal weed might change things here...?
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...281635942.html

Response 5
Quote:
Blah, Blah, Blah...
It's so hilarious to read some of the posts in here. "original vs. cover", "old vs. young", "Bands vs. bar owners",

Some young people telling the older people to just give up playing because their "to old".

Older people telling younger ones there to young to know what their talking about.

Bands complain about "not getting paid" by some of the bars.

Bitch bitch bitch......

I can honestly say that I have been all over and "this" market is just plain silly!! Why is everyone against everyone else here? Its so much better when people "musicians" come together for the common good.

Ripping someone apart just because their older, younger, less experienced, or because the play a different style than you do doesn't make you look better to anyone but yourself ...... But it does make you look childish, inexperienced, and arrogant to everyone everyone else "except you".

Get over yourselves... You people complaining about everything and everyone do not only look better to your peers.....

You will never learn anything if you keep slamming every door you come to just because it's not the same as your door.......

If someone wants to play for nothing big fucking deal. If you don't want to play for free ... Then don't play there.

Do you really think that a band playing at a bar for free is hurting your band? Do you really think its the bars fault for asking? Its no ones fault. Give it a rest go complain about something that really matters..... blah blah blah
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/da...281787635.html

Thought it was worth sharing.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2014, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Hahahaha, good stuff! I love how Mustang Sally is typically summoned up when discussing cover bands vs artistry.

I treasure those who don't get it - they're the main reason I work as much as I do! Seriously, if all musicians behaved and played at a pro level, freelancing would be even tougher than it already is.

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  #3  
Old 01-11-2014, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

What are these, Youtube comments? It's easy to mistake due to the rampant idiots. And does no one know the difference between to and too?
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Nevermind........................
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Last edited by MrPockets; 01-11-2014 at 03:16 AM. Reason: Redacted post comment
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Old 01-11-2014, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

So to the originally offered thesis: Is there ANY HOPE FOR REAL MUSIC at the bar? (minnesota). Yes and no.

Yes there are numerous "bar/club" scenes around the country. Think Nashville, San Antonio...

For the most part owner's don't want us honing our craft at their expense. They want a player(s) who can cover the top 20 bar songs and keep patrons in their seats. Live it, or leave it. And the top100 bar songs have changed very little in 30 years.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Quote:
When you play cover tunes in a bar, you are not being hired as an artist. You are being hired as a beer salesman.
That made me laugh.

Although it is essentially true.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

I posted this:

Quote:
re: blah blah blah
The only thing bad about people accepting to pay for nothing, is that eventually places to play will expect musicians to accept low payments. I don't think many people want to spend hours of practice only to barely cover the gas it took to get to the gig.

Now, some bars understand that paying more brings better music, and there are some of us who like to make a little money via music along with day jobs.

Just read this

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113005
Which was responded by this:

Quote:
RE: Re: blah, blah, blah (everywhere)




You're absolutely right!!!!! I figure the only thing that can be done is for 'good' musicians to just refuse to play for the cheesy bastards' gigs unless they sign a legal contract we can use to take them to court if they screw with us. Yeah, I want to make some money for performing, too. But, it seems to me that if buyers insist on hiring the '$66 dollar bands' eventually their revenues will go down because, their customers will get tired of the shitty bands..... unless they only want to get DRUNK and "to hell with the music". Yeah, it seems like the music biz is going down the crapper.
Then this was posted:

Quote:
RE RE RE Blah, Blah, Blah... -

You are ALL missing the point U dumb F_erz ;)
Over the last few years the economy went in the shitterr! No one was going out to "SEE BAND"!
There are LESS people around that go out anyway; (the baby boom was over 20 years ago!)
In order to FIX the problem The Bar AND Bands need to WORK TOGETHER to BUILD up or say TRAIN the people to want to go see bands again! I think that people want to go out to see good bands but there are none! All they see is 70s-90s cover bands! OR Fuked UP MPLS SAPPY crybaby, winning BS Bands!
You want to get people to love you? Write some songs that ROCK that you can dance too! NO techno! NO disco! NO M F-ing Slap happy Hiphoppy, rap SHIiiiiT! No screaming growling hair bands!
Just good old Modern ROCK SONGS!
The girls control the guy, if it's GOOD dancing rock that is not filled with BS! They will go out to hear and DANCE to it! The guys will follow the girls!

SIT DOWN WITH THE BARS! WORK WITH THE BARS! Make a PLAN that is fair to BOTH sides! It will take a few years but IT CAN BE DONE! nothing else is left! its the ONLY way!

AND STOP PISSING about it on CL!
Now this:

Quote:
re: bla bla bla

ok... here is the real deal. I am 100% sure for as long as there have been instruments, and there have been people playing instruments, and singing songs.. on this planet... in all of history ..... Everyone of them HAVE PLAYED FOR FREE AT SOME POINT!!

Everyone has played music for free! Mozart, Keith Richards, Prince .... and anybody else you can think of that plays music has played for free at some point!!

If you say you have never played a gig for free there can only be only a couple of reasons for it..... either you have never played in front of people, or you can't play an instrument.....

So get off your high horse and shut the fuuuuuuck up!! Everyone here knows your not the only person in all of history that has always been paid for every fucking gig you have ever played...You are an idiot. So stop embarrassing yourself. And like I said before... if someone wants to play for free food, and a couple of drinks... there is no way in hell it will hurt "your" band.

"If" you have a good band you will make money with it "if" your band is is worth paying. And even if you have the best band in the world... YOU WILL BE PLAYING FOR FREE AT SOME POINT!!

It is NOT the guy thats playing at some restaurant for free fault. It is nor the restaurants fault for asking......... Really dude?
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

The whole tale is priceless....very entertaining. The folks that get caught up in these details are very amusing....it's like a free comedy show in writing. Meanwhile, folks that are enjoying playing their instrument and music will continue to do so and eek out their little avenues.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Guys, guys, guys:
Quote:
re blah blah


There's only one person to call to fix a problem this big
This was also posted:

Quote:
Regarding All of the Bla(h)s: (Twin Cities)

I'd like to think that you all have a better grasp on music than you do on the English language, but I'm not holding out any hope. There are PLENTY of great bands and venues in this city. End of story.
Quote:
Re: Booze salesmen vs. musicians and blah blah blah (All along the muddy mississippi)

I play with an "originals" band and I'm a live, and let live, kind of musician. I believe in encouraging any and all musicians on their own path they have chosen, even playing for free if they feel that's the course they must take. We are responsible to each other for development of an esprit de corps atmosphere in the music community.

That being said, personally I feel a little let down that somehow, when I hear a number (number...because I don't know how many exactly) of musicians say our product we're producing somehow does not merit asking for a reasonable (and this would need to be qualified on a band by band basis) fee for it. That we just magically continue to crank out music and do it for....well...nothing. The product cannot possibly avoid being de-valued over time.

The music business is a business both on the venue side and the musicians' side. So how is it good business to play for free on the musician side? I suppose it could be said that "a band" may make an executive decision to say, "look...we will play just a few times to get "made" by the public, sell CDs etc. and then crunch numbers. Seems innocent, but there's a problem. We have to apply the old adage, "what's good for the bee is good for the swarm" mentality. What if ALL band's operated this way? We can easily see the concept of "play for free" breaks down under this kind of scrutiny. Sure, in the past many big names may have "at some point" played for free, but... just because it "happened", does that make it ethical or the right thing to do? I hardly think so.

As I mentioned before...Behind the scenes, if a band agrees to play for a doughnut and coffee (or less) and I hear about it, I won't protest or run down that band. Mind you, it is not a good policy but...I'm not going to call someone out on it. HOWEVER, to go on CL publically and suggest that this be an acceptable practice is a whole different matter, that causes a lot of concern over the direction live music will take. It is hard to give a "right" answer on a discussion like this that everyone will like. But I personally have to come down hard on "not settling for free" for the sake of the product we're laboring to produce.

We musicians offer a quality product, if there's any question regarding this, the band/musician owes it to the venue and the audience to "work it" full tilt until it is quality.

I'll end this with a story, actually a sign, I saw once in a print shop that applies here and to a lot of things. It reads, "Paying a fair price for a fair product is a lot like buying Oats. If you want quality oats you must pay a decent price. If, however you are willing to settle for Oats that have already gone through the horse...well then, that will cost you less."
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Last edited by MrPockets; 01-12-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Yep, this argument comes up on the local CL once a month or so in my neck of the woods as well. It comes up on most forums I'm on pretty frequently as well. It is the age old problem for which there is no solution. Artists verses venue owners is a fight as old as time.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

A town near enough to me to consider commuting for gigs has a similar flame war going in its CL musicians' community. Reason enough that I would never audition for any band there.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Why is it so hard for a REAL BAND, a SOBER band, with REAL TALENT, REAL skill, actual dynamics, a captivating sound, REAL PROFESSIONAL GEAR, playing REAL music, awesome music, timeless, groovey, killer tunes and have a KILLER sound to draw said idiots and become successful at the bar scene?


Probably b/c in reality they have nothing to offer except what 'they' think is good music.



You don't understand the bar scene, its all about drawing a crowd, the bar doesn't care how you do it.

If a band is frustrated with the bar scene and thinks its putting out great music (awesome music, timeless, groovey, killer tunes and have a KILLER sound), they should rent a theater, hall, concert venue etc. and try to put on a show there, see what happens... and then do it again and see what happens.

If you don't have a hit (charted) song (new, or old) pretty much you're going to be playing some kind of bar scene.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: A Craigslist fight broke out over original content bar bands,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Hahahaha, good stuff! I love how Mustang Sally is typically summoned up when discussing cover bands vs artistry.
Hah! great thread. I recently went to New Orleans for my honeymoon. My wife and I wanted to keep the touristy stuff to a minimum and opted for the dingy bars where the locals went to hear live music. However we had to see Bourbon street once. Our first and only night wandering Bourbon we heard Mustang Sally not once but twice and Sweet Home Alabama. It was like some bad joke with beads and hurricanes.

The rest of the trip was a blast though.
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