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  #1  
Old 04-11-2012, 03:36 AM
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Default DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

I'm gonna pick up the JoJo Mayers Secret weapons DVD. Could anyone recommend a DVD that covers the feet as well?

I know I can just take hand exercises and transfer them to the feet, but I am hoping for specific techniques, lessons to apply directly to the feet. I've been on a double pedal now for 3 months, and learned 2 years on a single pedal.

Also any good Youtube videos would be appreciated.

thanks in advance!
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Thomas Lang's Creative Coordination and Foot Technique

Tim Watterson(sp?) has a DVD on foot technique specifically.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Tim Waterson - "Techniques, Motions and Applications for Bass Drum Playing":
http://www.timwaterson.net/

It's da bomb for foot technique. Be prepared for some shocking experience, Tim's technique is out of this world! Great DVD as far as the material presented is concerned, but the visual quality is so-so - which isn't the most important factor.

Here's some short reviews:
http://www.twothreeonetwomusic.com/

And another review, plus some video samples if you scroll down:
http://www.dannybritt.com/TimWatersonDVD.htm

Tim has his own thread on DRUMMERWORLD:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=24644

Tim's DVD does show a few _patterns_, but overall it's more about _techniques_. Meaning you'll learn various motions while it's up to you how to apply this in your playing.

Now Thomas Lang's DVD is different: It demonstrates a myriad of (often complex) patterns but only briefly explaining the technique itself. "Technique" meaning that the foot techniques used are singles and doubles. In terms of technique Tim's DVD goes far beyond that while providing just a few patterns.

Another great tutorial on double bass drumming I can recommend is Virgil Donati's "Double Bass Drum Freedom" - but it's a book & CD, not a DVD. Again technique-wise you won't find any explanations except that the techniques used are... singles and doubles. But the great benefit of this tutorial is the plethora of patterns, with lots of left foot lead stuff (or patterns involving to lead with both feet at some time), lots of odd time signature patterns, lots of syncopated layering, and overall a lot of crazy stuff to digest. I've just been reading into that one, haven't actually started applying it to my playing (there's other stuff/DVDs I'm working on now - I need to get better at singles to really address Virgil's tutorial).

There's

--------

As for hands... There's everything on that JoJo Mayer DVD. Learn as many hand and foot techniques as you can and you'll have a lot of fun.

Last edited by Arky; 04-11-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Thanks Guys,

I'll have to check these out...

Just wanted to clarify that I use heel-toe, and don't want to change to another technique. I've tried going heel up, but just couldn't get it after months of trying. So hopefully these will give me practice strategies that I can combine with my hands.

My goal is to be able to do rolls, licks around the kit using the feet and hands at any time or a combination. My hands are OK, but I want to bring my feet up to their level.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Ok. Just let me tell you one thing ;-)
When learning something, some stuff happens fast, some stuff... may take a loooong time. I've learned heel-toe considerably quickly (fast singles also, BTW) but struggle with the full leg motion for months now. I'm not letting this discourage me though because I'm thinking of the future, telling myself I'll have this totally down in 1, 2,... whatever years.

Having doubles/heel-toe in one's arsenal is a great thing but I'd absolutely recommend learning heel-up, too. Practice some heel-up it if you have the time in your regular practice routine.

Maybe you'll give it a go after watching Tim's DVD, hehe. That DVD is terrifying first, then highly motivating... There's so much to explore, don't limit yourself ;-)
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
Thanks Guys,

I'll have to check these out...

Just wanted to clarify that I use heel-toe, and don't want to change to another technique. I've tried going heel up, but just couldn't get it after months of trying. So hopefully these will give me practice strategies that I can combine with my hands.

My goal is to be able to do rolls, licks around the kit using the feet and hands at any time or a combination. My hands are OK, but I want to bring my feet up to their level.
Definitely get Creative Coordination and Foot Technique book then. The exercises are all on PDFs (there are over 100 of them) and focus on limb independence and foot patterns underneath hi hat patterns with the hands.

Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWEVHrVImM
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Ok. Just let me tell you one thing ;-)
When learning something, some stuff happens fast, some stuff... may take a loooong time. I've learned heel-toe considerably quickly (fast singles also, BTW) but struggle with the full leg motion for months now. I'm not letting this discourage me though because I'm thinking of the future, telling myself I'll have this totally down in 1, 2,... whatever years.

Having doubles/heel-toe in one's arsenal is a great thing but I'd absolutely recommend learning heel-up, too. Practice some heel-up it if you have the time in your regular practice routine.

Maybe you'll give it a go after watching Tim's DVD, hehe. That DVD is terrifying first, then highly motivating... There's so much to explore, don't limit yourself ;-)
Thanks Arky, especially for your good point and advice. I do remember a prior post of yours mentioning your heel-toe technique. Guess I'll be adding some heel up to the practice mix.
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun2021 View Post
Thomas Lang's Creative Coordination and Foot Technique

Tim Watterson(sp?) has a DVD on foot technique specifically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun2021 View Post
Definitely get Creative Coordination and Foot Technique book then. The exercises are all on PDFs (there are over 100 of them) and focus on limb independence and foot patterns underneath hi hat patterns with the hands.

Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWEVHrVImM
Thanks Guys - this one here by Thomas Lang is INSANE! Sounds straight forward and efficient. I suppose that next snare is gonna have to wait.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Jojo Mayer hands down. Check out George kollias' extreme metal drumming just for the feet hAha. Even if you don't dig metal, the feet section is good
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  #10  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Thanks all,

Here's something that everyone's replies now has me thinking...and I thank you all for that!

So I've picked up the Jojo Mayer DVD pack for hands. But based on Arky's analysis, perhaps I should go more towards Tim Waterson's DVD? I'm sure it would have been helpful to let everyone know that while my heel toe technique is above average, my heel up technique really needs help. I've been frustrated trying to learn it (mainly for the double, triple beats). For some reason, my thigh muscles that connect to the hip area get really tired. It's probably my technique as I'm raising the leg so the ankle can act as a folcrum. So I just stayed heel toe.

If I pick up Thomas Lang's DVD, I may be trying to do complex patterns with weak heel up technique. So I'm thinking Waterson 1st, for heel up technique. Good decision anyone?
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Sorry I forgot to mention that on his DVD, Thomas Lang also uses heel-down as a variation. Basically he can do most of the single patterns either or (heel-up vs. heel-down).

Better get all of the DVDs mentioned. That would be a benefit in the longer run. If you choose to get 1 - I'd say get the Tim Waterson DVD. Because if you have those motions in your arsenal and worked out to good speed this would be a great start to get into specific patterns (Thomas Lang DVD). For example, I had no problem playing along the double patterns @ 220, 230 bpm because I was practicing this for months and put that time in _before_ getting the Thomas Lang DVD, haha. It would have been frustrating to watch that stuff, having a top speed of, say, 180 bpm/feet at that time.

PS: That 3-DVD Thomas Lang package is about 7 hours of material (including bonus, setup...)!!

Hmm, I don't have that thigh problem when doing the ankle motion. But it does become much harder when I'm switching to full leg motion (still learning process). I like to "relax" my legs from ankle motion or full leg motion by switching to heel-toe as the more economic one. You could try this also - practice heel-up until you feel some fatigue and then continue with heel-toe, or simply rest for some time. With more (a lot of) practice your muscles will adapt. At first when I tried to do full leg at full speed it seemed unbelievably hard (I thought I'd never learn that, and those who can do it are freaks of nature) - that was some 4 months back I think. Now it's noticeably easier but still not comfy. So whatever you're struggling with - keep at it and there will be progress.

You could try using ankle weights, but use the lighter versions (e.g. 2.2 lbs/1 kg per ankle). And not every practice but every one out of 2-3 or something, for additional workout. I should use them more often - they do have an effect!
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Hmm, I don't have that thigh problem when doing the ankle motion. But it does become much harder when I'm switching to full leg motion (still learning process).
Would the Waterson DVD discuss any of this type of technique? Things like "don't hold your entire leg up" or "bounce off the ball of your foot"? (just examples I'm throwing out here)
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
Would the Waterson DVD discuss any of this type of technique? Things like "don't hold your entire leg up" or "bounce off the ball of your foot"? (just examples I'm throwing out here)
Sure. Tim is giving infos like that all the time. He's talking (and simultaneously demonstrating) a lot... and it's a lot of great advice! Plus you'll get such goodies like finding the proper balance by using a Swiss ball (which has prompted me to start using such a ball, haha - it works!). Tim did an excellent job on that DVD.

(Just the visual quality... as said. On his 1st DVD he did everything himself. Now he's working on his 2nd DVD which will be edited professionally and up to the usual visual/audio quality.)
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Sure. Tim is giving infos like that all the time. He's talking (and simultaneously demonstrating) a lot... and it's a lot of great advice! Plus you'll get such goodies like finding the proper balance by using a Swiss ball (which has prompted me to start using such a ball, haha - it works!). Tim did an excellent job on that DVD.

(Just the visual quality... as said. On his 1st DVD he did everything himself. Now he's working on his 2nd DVD which will be edited professionally and up to the usual visual/audio quality.)
Right on brother...much appreciation!
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Being a single kick player, I have been steered toward Dom Famularo's "Pedal Control". I can't vouch for it personally, but I have heard some really good stuff about his approach to teaching and the video that comes with it, showing multiple techniques and practice patterns for each...maybe worth a try?
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Hi
A little late to answer, but new coming on this forum...
Playing from almost 41 years, I never found anything about feet technique up to last year I discovered "Unburying The Beater" from Matt Ritter, astounding of cleverness : detailed, logical, pragmatic, ending the endless controversy about heel-toe ! You should absolutly check that precoius work ! buy it on his site http://www.unburyingthebeater.com/ (it is rather difficult to find for purchase outside it) I put this DVD from the two most important to possess with the Jo Jo Mayer secret weapons !
Tim Waterson - Techniques Motions and Applications for Bass Drum is also great but forget about any Thomas "Swartzy"Lang DVD, aside by making your fear, it give no information at all !
regards
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

I think that Dom's "Pedal Control" is excellent, but for video, the best I've found (at the beginner, maybe intermediate, level) is the Mike Packer's series of videos on DrumChannel.com.
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

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Originally Posted by Greybrother View Post
Hi
A little late to answer, but new coming on this forum...
Playing from almost 41 years, I never found anything about feet technique up to last year I discovered "Unburying The Beater" from Matt Ritter, astounding of cleverness : detailed, logical, pragmatic, ending the endless controversy about heel-toe ! You should absolutly check that precoius work ! buy it on his site http://www.unburyingthebeater.com/
I agree, I have benefited a lot from Mat Ritter's DVD.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

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Originally Posted by whitecatcafe View Post
I agree, I have benefited a lot from Mat Ritter's DVD.
I agree. One of the best, if not the best, DVDs out there for foot technique.

Pair that with Tommy Igoe's Great Hands For A Lifetime for the hands or Steve Smith's Drumset Technique/History of the U.S. Beat DVD (with some hands and feet technique) and you will be busy for quite a while.

Jojo's DVD is nice too. I picked up some nice tips from that one. I just liked Igoe's a little better.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Someone on this forum uploaded this PDF (I attached it), I think it's a great place to start. Reminds me I need to add some more stuff that this doesn't cover.

As for DVD's; I don't know if there are any good dvds. There's speed metal ones but I don't want to play that ultra fast stuff or use triggers, I think patterns are where it's at. Matt Ritters looks cool but from the preview it looks like all single stuff?
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

That PDF has nice exercises! (I downloaded it from that thread where it was brought up.)

Yes, Matt Ritter's DVD is all about single pedal technique. But what he discusses can be implemented on double pedals as well, it's the same thing. He said that he regretted not touching the double pedal on his DVD a bit but it looks he's working on his 2nd DVD - or gathering ideas/concepts or whatever so there might be a follow-up tutorial. And then, Matt's DVD was about _technique/motions_, not about patterns. But once you optimize the motion learning any pattern will become easier of course. I didn't learn a ton from his DVD but what I learned made a big difference, cleared things up for me.

For overall foot technique I'd recommend Tim Waterson's DVD. The techniques he's demonstrating are quite shocking in their abundance/variation and easily cover 99.9% of what can be reasonably done on a single/double pedal.

As for hands, Todd Sucherman's 1st DVD (Methods & Mechanics) has a superb rudiments/stickings section of some 30 minutes that has helped me a lot. I keep coming back to that section every few months to check progress.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: DVD recommendation for feet and hand work please...

Colin Bailey's Bass Drum Control Book. It was the 1st. Good mixer of hand and feet combinations. Denis
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