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  #1  
Old 11-26-2013, 05:49 PM
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Default The death of Rock n Roll?

Rock and roll ain't nothing but jazz with a hard backbeat.” “The rock's easy, but the roll is another thing...
― Keith Richards, Life

There was a time when this was true.
I think that since the eighties happened, Rock lost it's roll thanks to machines.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
I think that since the eighties happened,
I tend to think of the eighties in those terms as well. Like a natural disaster or major tragedy that should be looked back upon with remorse.

Machines are a means to an end. The goal of the music business is to make money. Machines, in all their forms, aid in cutting down on the costs of making and performing music. Pop music, and lets face it thats what the Stones were, a pop band with distorted guitars, has gone away from traditional instruments and toward machine made music due simply to profit margins. If you want rock that rolls, move away from the music designed to make money and find the bands that are doing for the joy of making music. Great rock bands are still out there, you just have to look a little harder for them.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
Pop music, and lets face it thats what the Stones were, a pop band with distorted guitars, has gone away from traditional instruments and toward machine made music due simply to profit margins.
Is that really true? Isn't it more because new technology has allowed new and exciting possibilities that perhaps couldn't even have been conceived of before, and pop music reflects that? I bet Rihanna's record company can afford to record an acoustic drum kit, or a string quartet, if that was what they were going for.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Obviously rock's heyday was the 70s and since then it's started the usual process of fading back in the mix, destined to become just one more building block of music history ...
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

There still are and there will always be great pure rock bands. But certainly most of what gets generated today is just product, like Twinkies. It's hard to ignore all that crap, though. And it's irritating to me that most people can't tell the shit from the shinola.

Just remember what Neil Young said. He's a survivor if ever there was one, and he's still making great music: "Hey hey, my my... rock n roll will never die!"
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

People have been saying this is the death of rock n roll since at least the early 70's.

I do often wonder if it's run it course though.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Maybe mainstream music is moving full circle- back to where the 'band' and instrumentation is just background, and what is featured (or these days packaged) is the singer. I don't know, think Vera Lynn, Bing Crosby..hell even Enrico Caruso.
Hopefully even this will not lose its "roll'
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

There's so much great new music out there, it does the human race's creative efforts a disservice to judge them based only on the most aggressively promoted output of a handful of large corporations.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
There was a time when this was true.
I think that since the eighties happened, Rock lost it's roll thanks to machines.
I disagree... granted, it's different nowadays, but there's still some genuine rock'n'roll out here today... but I guess it's on the ears of the beholder, always has and always will be... there's nothing new under the sun, but perhaps the Stones should stop rolling....
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

There's great stuff going on in metal in the last decade, and even now, if only people would look. As for machines.... drummers are becoming the machines. Listen to Gene Hoglan, Thomas Haake, Danny Walker, Ed the dude who plays for Ayreon, Cult of Luna's two drummers, the list goes on and on. The stuff that you don't hear on the radio is where all the action is.
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

I think there are long cycles of "rock". It gets overindulged with itself (70s), then the Sex Pistols come along and flatten it.
It builds back up again and gets fat and bloated (80s) ... then grunge comes along.

Perhaps we are due again now? hhhmmm ... maybe overdue.

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Old 11-28-2013, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by radman View Post
I think there are long cycles of "rock". It gets overindulged with itself (70s), then the Sex Pistols come along and flatten it.
It builds back up again and gets fat and bloated (80s) ... then grunge comes along.

Perhaps we are due again now? hhhmmm ... maybe overdue.

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I think this is spot on.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by CreeplyTuna View Post
There's great stuff going on in metal in the last decade, and even now, if only people would look. As for machines.... drummers are becoming the machines. Listen to Gene Hoglan, Thomas Haake, Danny Walker, Ed the dude who plays for Ayreon, Cult of Luna's two drummers, the list goes on and on. The stuff that you don't hear on the radio is where all the action is.
I have to second this. This is where all the creativity lies as far as I am concerned. While I don't like ALL of it, I do like a whole lot of it. The drumming is almost beyond what seems humanly possible, the guitars are wandering all over the place and using things like sweeps as normal everyday fodder, the vocals have come to a point to where they can be from clean to Cookie monster and everything in between. The music takes paths that remind me of classical music. There are no limits, just like Rock used to be. Here is your new Rock n Roll.

Alright, maybe it isn't for everyone. So I see it like this: My dad doesn't like my music (metal), my grandfather didn't like my dads music (60's-70's rock), my great grandfather I never knew, but I would be willing to bet he didn't like my grandfathers music (polka). Now the funny thing about it is the younger generation does like the older generations music in my case.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

When it comes to new music, I don't think there is anything wrong with any of it...there is lots of variety, some styles being far more prominent and kinda like the zeitgeist. Personally, I don't care for any of the pop or mainstream pop country, rap and its variants, etc etc....but I still see the artistic value and talent. Don't mean I gotta listen though. Something like Nickleback is where I draw the line though....they are talented but that is pure formulaic pablum.

Amon Amarth is interesting....I check out all kinds of new bands online that I would call rock and roll, they are there....just not mainstream. I mean, it's never gonna die in my circle because I decide what to listen to and what bands to play in.

And I really despise these three name phrase bands.....Pierce The Veil....come on man, dumb!! Cage The Elephant?? These are actionable phrases.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
...
And I really despise these three name phrase bands.....Pierce The Veil....come on man, dumb!! Cage The Elephant?? These are actionable phrases.
Should we get off your lawn?
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

I cut it two ways to make sure it is even and has a nice pattern to it....now get your soccer ball and stay off my grass, kid. Next time I'll let my dog have it ;-)

Someone has to speak out against this three-name actionable phrase band naming blasphemy!


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Should we get off your lawn?
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Stone Temple Pilots is NOT an actionable phrase, therefor still cool.

I like a little fuzz in my music, but I'm just tired of hearing distorted guitars playing power chords. I listened to Metallica and Slayers for 25 freakin' years, man. I do hear some cool Metal here and there and I like some of it for the creativity factor much in the same way one would look at a Dali painting. But my band is trying to be just as creative in a different sort of way by pushing the boundaries of our own playing and searching for a sound that we can call our own using mostly clean amps and a positive vibe to the music. But that's just us. We're hippies! I think rock will survive. Teenage angst will always manifest its way into music, and I don't think it's gonna be all lollipops and flowers. I know, I was a teenager once. Tool will be coming out with a new album hopefully next year and it will once again give rock n' roll that shot in the arm it needs in this generation.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Someone has to speak out against this three-name actionable phrase band naming blasphemy!
You're right.

Let's bring back sensible names like they used in the good ole days.





Say, whatever happened to Mott the Hoople?
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Never was a fan of the band or the name....terrible name. Should also be expurgated. Although I'm not privy to English meanings, i never did take that as an actionable phrase....I think Mott is a person and hoople is a descriptive term for his avolition.....so, in terms of your reference I would call it an abject fail..

But keep trying....im sure we will find a popular band name from the classic rock annals that describes the act of painful fornication or the act of taking a large earth roving beast and containing it.

Now, Ian Hunter on his own....that's a different story....he and mick ronson....cleveland rocks baby!

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You're right.

Let's bring back sensible names like they used in the good ole days.





Say, whatever happened to Mott the Hoople?
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

The internet has killed band names. In the 90's when I was first starting bands we could name ourselves whatever we wanted (we in fact named ourselves "The Wanted") and not worry if anybody else outside our town had the same name. Now with the internet I can see immediately if any other band has our name. So instead of "The Wanted", of which I am sure there were hundreds, we would have to come up with something completely original that no other band on the planet has.

Hence we get bands like, iwrestledabearonce and Five Finger Death Punch. Although I still say Korn is the worst band name in history.
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Old 11-30-2013, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
...iwrestledabearonce and Five Finger Death Punch...
Both great bands. I can't comment on band name ridiculousness. My solo project that never seems to get anywhere because no one else is on the same page as me is Zombie Hooker Tea Party. Don't ask, I have no idea...
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
And I really despise these three name phrase bands.....Pierce The Veil....come on man, dumb!! Cage The Elephant?? These are actionable phrases.
Lots of opportunities for self deprecating 3-word band names here!

Off My Lawn
Damn You Kids
Cage the Dinosaurs
....

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
I have to second this. This is where all the creativity lies as far as I am concerned. While I don't like ALL of it, I do like a whole lot of it. The drumming is almost beyond what seems humanly possible, the guitars are wandering all over the place and using things like sweeps as normal everyday fodder, the vocals have come to a point to where they can be from clean to Cookie monster and everything in between. The music takes paths that remind me of classical music. There are no limits, just like Rock used to be. Here is your new Rock n Roll.
True. Today's metal reminds me of 70s classic rock ... loud, fast, flashy, aggressive, exciting, grating ... mainly aimed at teenagers and early 20s.

What I have noticed is today's rock bands tend to be less eclectic - once you get a critical mass of things they start to specialise - be it job structures in workplaces, TV stations, hive animals, etc.

It's happened with bands too - I'm not seeing the eclecticism of The Beatles, The Stones, Hendrix, The Doors, The Who, Zappa, early Tubes, Led Zep, Bowie, Lou Reed, Pink Floyd, Joni Mitchell, King Crimson, Queen, Eno, ELP, Hawkwind, Roxy Music, Radiohead, Gong, etc.

Get off my lawn!

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Alright, maybe it isn't for everyone. So I see it like this: My dad doesn't like my music (metal), my grandfather didn't like my dads music (60's-70's rock), my great grandfather I never knew, but I would be willing to bet he didn't like my grandfathers music (polka). Now the funny thing about it is the younger generation does like the older generations music in my case.
Very true. I don't think I've seen as much interest in older forms by the younger generation before. Don't know what to make of that.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Very good! I love the SDing band names....those are great. If I may, I will make a simple mod to your last suggestion....although I liked it in its original form, I can more accurately mirror my mindset with the following:

"Unleash" The Dinosaurs

And for those who like the sublimely stupid long band names...

"Unleash the dinosaurs so they may trample and eradicate bands having actionable phrases as names"

Lol....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Lots of opportunities for self deprecating 3-word band names here!

Off My Lawn
Damn You Kids
Cage the Dinosaurs
....



True. Today's metal reminds me of 70s classic rock ... loud, fast, flashy, aggressive, exciting, grating ... mainly aimed at teenagers and early 20s.

What I have noticed is today's rock bands tend to be less eclectic - once you get a critical mass of things they start to specialise - be it job structures in workplaces, TV stations, hive animals, etc.

It's happened with bands too - I'm not seeing the eclecticism of The Beatles, The Stones, Hendrix, The Doors, The Who, Zappa, early Tubes, Led Zep, Bowie, Lou Reed, Pink Floyd, Joni Mitchell, King Crimson, Queen, Eno, ELP, Hawkwind, Roxy Music, Radiohead, Gong, etc.

Get off my lawn!



Very true. I don't think I've seen as much interest in older forms by the younger generation before. Don't know what to make of that.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Nice ... Unleash the Dinosaurs rocks :)
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
You're right.

Let's bring back sensible names like they used in the good ole days.





Say, whatever happened to Mott the Hoople?
LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
The internet has killed band names. In the 90's when I was first starting bands we could name ourselves whatever we wanted (we in fact named ourselves "The Wanted") and not worry if anybody else outside our town had the same name. Now with the internet I can see immediately if any other band has our name. So instead of "The Wanted", of which I am sure there were hundreds, we would have to come up with something completely original that no other band on the planet has.
.
And even weirder is now see 101 bands online using your bands name from the 90's before everyone had net access.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Very true. I don't think I've seen as much interest in older forms by the younger generation before. Don't know what to make of that.
I grew up listening to everything. The only music that I really had to discover for myself was rap and metal. I don't discard a type of music when it becomes outdated or uncool, I will still listen to it. Disco even has a somewhat regular rotation in the car, just put the mp3 player on random and off we go!
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Rock n Roll

The death ? Not possible. I totally agree regarding the roots -- jazz--I have taught kids -- especially in cars--musical history and how to"hear". What I am talking about is--there is first, no worse torture than cruising in your car-with its great sound system and having screaming kids ruin the ride...I have used the music ( which speaks even to savage beasts-gotta love em) to put a end to little people , ruining my ride.. This works with them throughout their life--

A car of teenage boys--turn on the tunes....Ask them Who is playing-when it was written--name the drummer--what makes the tune great---etc., then I fire a jazz tune at em--so they hear-the licks--My kids and --crap--who knows how many others who got stuck driving with me ---all got a Rock n Roll education.( and still do)( we play the newer stuff and talk about it)

I teach em all--then--bring them to see and hear live---This is where some changes have taken place---Yeah--Jazz Fests--seated at Big Band concerts--anywhere live.Soul--Blues--
I think changes that have affected Rock--are the too available electronic listening devices- and adults discouraging the arts in general---here kid, you can sit up this is your first video game--what happened to kids banging away on pots and pans and percussion--tunes playing in the background ??

Live music-----nothing better--the closer the better--A lot of stuff going on discourages the
attendance at live performances. I am sick to hear most kids in high school do not
have a clue what it is like to have live bands play at their dances even----

Too many interference's---local bands instead of getting paid for gigs--are expected to play
at what I call "teasers". They pay, to be allowed to play for about a hour--just when things
start to get comfortable--then they scramble to haul off their gear--so the next band does its thing---What is this ?? Who even remembers who they came to hear ?

The other thing--these kids later encounter is too many cops --on route to venues--at the gigs--they are scared off. ( some people think Rockers are evil and are a bad influence-well we have heard all that before...)

Nope--Rock n Roll will never die as long as we keep playing and teaching these little people to hear -- and play--and we will listen..and pull out our instruments and play ......

Last edited by A human; 12-01-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Rock n Roll

The death ? Not possible. I totally agree regarding the roots -- jazz--I have taught kids -- especially in cars--musical history and how to"hear". What I am talking about is--there is first, no worse torture than cruising in your car-with its great sound system and having screaming kids ruin the ride...I have used the music ( which speaks even to savage beasts-gotta love em) to put a end to little people , ruining my ride.. This works with them throughout their life--
A car of teenage boys--turn on the tunes....Ask them Who is playing-when it was written--name the drummer--what makes the tune great---etc., them I fire a jazz tune at em--so they hear-the licks--My kids and --crap--who knows how many others who got stuck driving
with me ---all got a Rock n Roll education.( and still do)

I teach em all--then--bring them to see and hear live---This is where some changes have
have taken place---Yeah--Jazz Fests--seated at Big Band concerts--anywhere live.

The changes that have affected Rock--are the too available electronic listening devices-

Live music-----nothing better--the closer the better--A lot of stuff going on discourages the
attendance at live performances. I am sick to hear most kids in high school do not
have a clue what it is like to have live bands play at their dances even----

Too many interference's---local bands instead of getting paid for gigs--are expected to play
at what I call "teasers". They pay, to be allowed to play for about a hour--just when things
start to get comfortable--then they scramble to haul off their gear--so the next band does its thing---What is this ?? Who even remembers who they came to hear ?

The other thing--these kids later encounter is too many cops --on route to venues--at the gigs--they are scared off. ( some people think Rockers are evil and are a bad influence-well we have heard all that before...)

Nope--Rock n Roll will never die as long as we keep playing and teaching these little people to hear -- and play--and we will listen..
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

On discovering that somebody else is using your band's name...

(Actionable phrase content warning)

I discovered that the name that I chose for my band (ok, "band") is already in use.

There are at least two bands on the planet calling themselves "Jump the Shark".

We may have to change our name.

I wonder if there's another band out there called "Actionable Phrase"?
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

I find the death of rock and roll to be a myth. Like the death of opera (a topic they've been talking about since at least opera's 2nd decade.) Well, that form is now over 400 years old and still going strong.Or the death of the American Theatre (the fabulous invalid) Rock has splintered into sub genres like hip hop and the like but it is obviously still alive and well and has only been around as rock and roll for a little over 60 years. It's a very young form of music which drew on the pop music of the 100 years before it's "advent"(someone coming up with the new name of pop so a new generation would identify it as their own when it's still basically the same harmonic/melodic material they were using 300 years ago.)
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Lol. Now that is good and ironic! Naming the band Actionable Phrase is very funny and clever

Not that you need it, but you would get the old guy seal of approval..






Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
On discovering that somebody else is using your band's name...

(Actionable phrase content warning)

I discovered that the name that I chose for my band (ok, "band") is already in use.

There are at least two bands on the planet calling themselves "Jump the Shark".

We may have to change our name.

I wonder if there's another band out there called "Actionable Phrase"?
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

Action That Phrase :)

Nice historical perspective, MJ. I guess it depends on what you mean by rock n roll, which could be anything from Bill Haley to Foo Fighters.

Jeremy, I think you could be right that there is less "roll" in current music, though it's hard for music to roll when compressed to smithereens. The shuffle seems to be out of favour.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:18 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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On discovering that somebody else is using your band's name...

(Actionable phrase content warning)

I discovered that the name that I chose for my band (ok, "band") is already in use.

There are at least two bands on the planet calling themselves "Jump the Shark".

We may have to change our name.

I wonder if there's another band out there called "Actionable Phrase"?
No,you don't.Band names aren't protected under the trademark law,and as such,can't be copyrighted.Logos are something different altogether.There was a case back in the late 60's,where the Chicago Transit Authority,threatened to sue the band Chicago Transit Authority(now known as Chicago) for use of their name.The band capitulated,because,they didn't want the negative publicity,so they just became "Chicago" with their own logo,by the second album.

They would have won the case in court.

http://www.alankorn.com/articles/band_trademark.html

Steve B
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:47 PM
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RickVandeven RickVandeven is offline
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

As long as some kid in a garage is plucking away on his/her First Act guitar/amp combo they bought at Goodwill for $10; rock n' roll will never die.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

To paraphrase Mark Twain, the reports of rock's death are greatly exaggerated.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:37 AM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

I think country music brought rock and roll back to life.

Most of the current country music songs sound like rock and roll to me.


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Old 12-04-2013, 12:39 PM
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PQleyR PQleyR is offline
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post

Jeremy, I think you could be right that there is less "roll" in current music, though it's hard for music to roll when compressed to smithereens. The shuffle seems to be out of favour.
Didn't rock 'n' roll start by straightening out shuffle patterns and accenting on 2 and 4? Also, compression affects dynamics, not timing.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:34 PM
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Didn't rock 'n' roll start by straightening out shuffle patterns and accenting on 2 and 4? Also, compression affects dynamics, not timing.
Very good, but I spoke of two different aspects - the reduced dynamics and fewer shuffles. Just my impression from the outside. I have almost no connection with rock n roll these days.
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Last edited by Anon La Ply; 12-04-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:23 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The death of Rock n Roll?

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Rock and roll ain't nothing but jazz with a hard backbeat.” “The rock's easy, but the roll is another thing...
― Keith Richards, Life

There was a time when this was true.
I think that since the eighties happened, Rock lost it's roll thanks to machines.
I dont think it was the machines. It was an age and a time that passed, and the culture of that age mutated into other things, despite furious efforts to bottle the magic with phrases like " rock & roll will never die".

I think rock & roll was a voice of a generation ( a couple of generations maybe ), and at the center of it all was long suppressed and unapologetic self expression.

I think the spirit remains, because there is something universal and everlasting about it,but the music has now mutated into other things, not the least of it being a different set of values.


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Old 12-04-2013, 05:45 PM
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I think the spirit remains, because there is something universal and everlasting about it,but the music has now mutated into other things, not the least of it being a different set of values.
Abe, what spirit remains? I don't see a cohesive spirit of rock n' roll. It's just youth culture an the fact that every generation gripes about their descendants' music. And values. And they are all probably making a good point.

But tech has always been a huge driver. One day The Machine will shape arts, politics, laws, foods ... everything to suit their needs over ours. The more entwined humans become with tech the more we will reflect it.
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