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  #1  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:55 PM
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SgtThump SgtThump is offline
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Default Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

I've been using guitar mics in my bass drum for videos and finally decided to break down and get a real bass drum mic. What a difference! LOL

Anyway, I have both of these mics in my possession now and just made this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdC1gEtAHM0

My goal is to decide which microphone I want to keep out of these two. Gotta admit, I'm having a heck of a time deciding after only a few hours with them.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

The D112 was a touch deeper sounding on your bass drum. The Beta 52 sounds good on smaller bass drums, but it had a little more click in the sound, which some people like.
On my bass drum, I like a D112 the best. The Beta 52 sounds a little 'boofy' on my bass drum, for the tuning I use, the small amount of muffling, and size of it.

On your D112 and overheads section, it seemed to sound fuller overall. Not saying the 52 can't sound the same, but if you didn't change any settings between them, the D112 just sounded a touch fuller, even if by a slight margin.

You'd do well with either. No wrong choice.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Thanks Karl. Im leaning towards keeping both. LOL I can use either on the bass drum depending on my mood, then use the other for my 16" floor tom. I havent tried that yet, but it soundslike a good idea.

This was my Yamaha Live Custom (oak) 14"x22" bass drum with srock PS3 on batter side and coated Ambassador on front with 5" hole. Also an Evans EQ pillow inside.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
The D112 was a touch deeper sounding on your bass drum. The Beta 52 sounds good on smaller bass drums, but it had a little more click in the sound, which some people like.
On my bass drum, I like a D112 the best. The Beta 52 sounds a little 'boofy' on my bass drum, for the tuning I use, the small amount of muffling, and size of it.

On your D112 and overheads section, it seemed to sound fuller overall. Not saying the 52 can't sound the same, but if you didn't change any settings between them, the D112 just sounded a touch fuller, even if by a slight margin.

You'd do well with either. No wrong choice.
Hey Karl, I know you play big bass drums, but I'm not sure if you have a microphone hole in the bass drum head? How do you position your D112?

This is my first time actually owning REAL bass drum microphones and since I don't mess around, I picked them both up to try. LOL

Most of my previous videos were using a Shure SM57 in the bass drum. Just recently, I started trying my Sennheiser e609 and it was getting more lows. But when I hooked up these REAL bass drum mics, I was pretty shocked at the depth of the tone. The low end is captured in ways those other mics couldn't for obvious reasons (design.)

Anyway, it turns out that I do like the bass drum mics inside the bass drum setup a "typical" way with it being 4-5" from the batter head and pointing slightly towards where the beater impacts the batter head.

I'm curious of your mic positions (or anyone else too?)
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

That Live Custom 14x22 sounds HUGE in person.
LOTS of low end. That's a great kit you picked up. They have a Dark Brown to medium Red-ish Brown burst kit at the shop, and man is it pretty!
The Live Custom line should be a big hit for Yamaha.

I have a hole in the deeper shells (20" depth), just a 4" with a HOLZ thing. I like the HOLZ because it's a solid unit and kinda mutes the front head a touch. I wouldn't EVER go more than 4" on a mic hole, but that's a personal preference.

I place the D112 at the hole, with just the nose of it sticking in a little. Maybe a half inch of it in. It's actually kind of far from the batter, but there's no sound lag.
The nose is pointed to face the head at the 9:00 position. It's not pointed at the impact spot. The reason for that is, I HATE a click sound (another personal preference).
For some reason, I like the sound of the mic at 9:00, instead of the 3:00 spot.

On the 16" deep shell, there is sometimes a hole, sometimes not. It doesn't seem to matter on that drum. I do like the feel, & sound of it with a hole, but the drum mics up easily and sounds cool either way. One venue FOH guy we've had several times doesn't mic in the hole of any bass drum, and it always sounds great for everyone.

The mic is in the same spot, just off the head an inch (or where ever the stand sits) if it's a solid head.

Right now, the 18x26 has a solid front head, and just a tiny touch of muffling on the batter (with my foam inside at the bottom of the shell) with my beater patch taped to the head, and 2 slivers of Moongel.
It's basically wide open, but it sounds great. Awesome punch, tone, and a controlled note length. Must have hit some magic tensioning! The front head has a vinyl band logo that's a decent size, so that mutes the reso a bit too. I'm afraid to change anything on it haha!

Even though that drum is 18" deep, I have mic'd it live without a hole without any trouble before. The 20" deep shells do need a hole for me to get the best out of that size drum though.

I also play off the head, and never into it, so that may make some difference in how a mic reacts to the heads.

Since the beater isn't resting on, or into the head, there isn't going to be any noticeable difference in the head pressure when it's struck, & then the film being pushed into, and kept there till the next hit, it may make some difference.
I'd think you'd have more of a chance of things being "the same" more by playing off the head than into it, and having the film stretch the same each time (without causing any pitch change).

TBH, on the bass drum you have, I don't think you'd need a hole at all. Especially since its 14" deep. Just nice tensioning, and, a consistent foot on the drum--paying attention to dynamics if needed in a song, but as long as it's a solid hit, your mic will pick it up just fine.

I'd try a solid head, and start just off center, and go out towards the edge to see what you like.

Keeping both mics is a great option to have!!
Have fun!!!
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2013, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Wow Karl, thanks for all the info!

I tried both mics just peeking in the front hole (like I see alot during live performances) and while it sounded okay, it just didn't seem to get the punch I wanted. I had to put it inside to really get that punch when listening over headphones. That method may work just fine for me in a live setting, but I'm not sure about recording. Just preferences, of course.

Cool you got a chance to hear the Live Custom kits. I really love the features, hardware, color (I got the black wood), SIZED, and of course, the tone!

Thanks again!

Anyone else have input on the tone in this clip, mic preferences, etc...?
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2013, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Hang in a sec... I experimented a little last night on my 18"20" bass drum. It has a kickport installed, so I tried a few mic positions that werent inside the drum. The D112 sounded fantastic around 3" from the kickport hole!

I have alot of experimenting to do now, so dont hold me to a certain mic position just yet. lol
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2013, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

The 52 was more compressed and thicker sounding and the D112 was more open and natural. I can see how it would make it difficult to choose just one. In fact depending on the sound you are after both could be kept and used when needed.

If I had to choose just one and based on your settings I'd probably go with the 52. I like a more solid and compressed thud with a mic'd bass drum. Not dead but little resonance. If I wanted a more open sound I would just record in a small room and just use overheads and a snare mic. Though my opinions may change based on your next test lol.

Nice comparison vid, thanks.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2013, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by XplosiveDrummer View Post
The 52 was more compressed and thicker sounding and the D112 was more open and natural. I can see how it would make it difficult to choose just one. In fact depending on the sound you are after both could be kept and used when needed.

If I had to choose just one and based on your settings I'd probably go with the 52. I like a more solid and compressed thud with a mic'd bass drum. Not dead but little resonance. If I wanted a more open sound I would just record in a small room and just use overheads and a snare mic. Though my opinions may change based on your next test lol.

Nice comparison vid, thanks.
Thanks man. I'm wondering if the D112 sounds more "open", because of it's cardioid pattern than isn't as focused on where it's pointed like the 52 (super cardioid?) Probably has alot to do with it, as well as the voicing of course.

I can dial in a nice tone on the 52 and really dig it. Then I switch over to the D112 without changing anything and the volume is perceived as being much louder. The D112 has a "punch" that is just ridiculous. It cuts through like nobody's business!

At this point, I'm leaning towards liking the D112 more. But yeah, both mics seem fantastic for different tones.

Also, and this goes against alot of things I've read from people more knowledgeable than me, the D112 seems more tweakable. The Shure 52 seems to have it's sound, which is fantastic. But the D112 seems to respond quite a bit to changing the channel EQ, mic position, etc... I've read that the D112 does one thing and one thing only, but I dunno.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Yup it seems like that's the reason for it's focused sound and from the description on the Shure website. Look forward to more results Sgt, thanks for the reply. :)
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Some very useful information in this thread. I just posted a thread relating to a D112 and a ported reso here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=110364

FYI: Sgt Thump, I'm also in the St. Louis (more like St. Charles) region as well. Hello neighbor!
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2013, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

The reason I went with the D112 was because of Larrie Londin. He talked about this mic with me at a master class he did, and I heard the results on some of his recordings.
There's the punch, but it has (like you guy's pointed out too), an open, clearer sound that has ALL the tones of the drum. That can be good, or bad, depending on how well someone prepares their bass drum though :-)
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

I think the reason the 112 sounds more "open" is because is has a somewhat flatter frequency response. The 52 has a more pre-EQd contoured response curve.

In fact, the 112 SHOULD be more tweakable because it gives you more even frequencies to start with. My D6 is even more contoured than the 52, and while I like it fine, it is pretty much a one trick pony. You can't easily add frequencies in that the mic doesn't pick up to start with, but you can cut out the ones you don't want.

If I had it to do over, I'd buy the 112. But since I live on a shoestring, I'll make do with what I have.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by AxisDrummer View Post
Some very useful information in this thread. I just posted a thread relating to a D112 and a ported reso here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=110364

FYI: Sgt Thump, I'm also in the St. Louis (more like St. Charles) region as well. Hello neighbor!
Hey neighbor! What band are you in? I'm in an original band named "Revence" out of O'Fallon, MO (even though I live like 45 minutes away from there.)
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
I think the reason the 112 sounds more "open" is because is has a somewhat flatter frequency response. The 52 has a more pre-EQd contoured response curve.

In fact, the 112 SHOULD be more tweakable because it gives you more even frequencies to start with. My D6 is even more contoured than the 52, and while I like it fine, it is pretty much a one trick pony. You can't easily add frequencies in that the mic doesn't pick up to start with, but you can cut out the ones you don't want.

If I had it to do over, I'd buy the 112. But since I live on a shoestring, I'll make do with what I have.
That's a good point. I actually scooped the mids a bit on these recordings and I probably shouldn't have done that on the Beta 52. Next time, I'll keep the mids more flat on the board to see how that works.

Everyone - Thanks again for the input. Listening back to my video on anything other than a setup with a sub sounds really clicky. Listen with a sub or nice headphones that can represent low freq's and you'll hear what I heard when I made the video. Both mics THUMP when you listen back with a nice system.
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Hey neighbor! What band are you in? I'm in an original band named "Revence" out of O'Fallon, MO (even though I live like 45 minutes away from there.)
My band is "Axis". www.facebook.com/AxisStL

Basically an upstart 4 piece cover band although 3 of us have some history together. I'll admit we're probably a basement band just lucky to have had some gigs and a good response at them. Been playing the small dive bar scene since March: Red Fish Blue Fish in St. Charles, Parrot's and Misty Nights in St. Peters off Hwy 94, Handlebars in Florissant, Gameday in Maryland Heights.

We played 20 yrs ago as teenagers at bars but took a long break due to military service/families/etc....Got back together January 2012. I bought a mixer/PA and took a crash course in sound at "Google University". Basically I just mike the bass drum. Only thing coming out of the PA is bass drum and vocals. Guitar/bass amps are just as is. Yeah so the sound isn't exactly professional but all we can muster up right now.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by AxisDrummer View Post
My band is "Axis". www.facebook.com/AxisStL

Basically an upstart 4 piece cover band although 3 of us have some history together. I'll admit we're probably a basement band just lucky to have had some gigs and a good response at them. Been playing the small dive bar scene since March: Red Fish Blue Fish in St. Charles, Parrot's and Misty Nights in St. Peters off Hwy 94, Handlebars in Florissant, Gameday in Maryland Heights.

We played 20 yrs ago as teenagers at bars but took a long break due to military service/families/etc....Got back together January 2012. I bought a mixer/PA and took a crash course in sound at "Google University". Basically I just mike the bass drum. Only thing coming out of the PA is bass drum and vocals. Guitar/bass amps are just as is. Yeah so the sound isn't exactly professional but all we can muster up right now.
Given your username, I thought that could be your band name. But then I thought, maybe he likes Axis pedals? LOL

Cool man. My band doesn't get out as much as I'd like, but I do enjoy our originals and playing with the guys. Sounds like you guys are having a good time!
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Everyone - Thanks again for the input. Listening back to my video on anything other than a setup with a sub sounds really clicky. Listen with a sub or nice headphones that can represent low freq's and you'll hear what I heard when I made the video. Both mics THUMP when you listen back with a nice system.
I have two tower speakers with a 12" woofer, 5" mid and 3" tweeter, along with 4 12" Kenwood car subwoofers with two each in a dual sealed box on each side of me getting power from an XLS1000 Crown amp in bridge mode. Trust me when I say, I can hear the difference in thump between the 52 and 112 LOL! ;) :)

They both have thump but the 52 is more solid and direct and the 112 is less focused but more open sounding through the tone spectrum.
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Yup, Beta 52 and D112 are pretty much standard issue bass drum mics...I prefer the 52.
If you can, try getting a Beta 91 too and putting that inside and then combine with other mics...
Another suggestion though....far and away my favourite bass drum mic - a Sennheiser MD 421. Mega fat punch; not as much waayy down low response as a 52, but just a beautiful low frequency envelope with this mic. With just a touch of EQ, it can do anything. The integrated mic clip sucks but can be helped with an elastic band. Amazing on toms and floor toms too.
Find a used one!!

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  #20  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Also yes I agree, especially if you have editing or tweaking tools to get the desired sound. It would be best to have a mic you can work with instead of one you can barely or not at all work with.

I recently read a product review from a drummer about drums and he said it's better to have more resonance to work with than less as you can't add more but you can take away if needed. He was refering to drums with a lot of contact surface regarding edges and that is where 45 degree edges are nice to have sometimes, especially on toms.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Given your username, I thought that could be your band name. But then I thought, maybe he likes Axis pedals?
After I selected my username, I figured most people WOULD assume I named myself after Axis pedals. Lol. Old DW 5000 user here!
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

I'm still leaning towards keeping both at this time. I already said this, but that would give me the option of which mic to use on the bass drum, then just use the other for a floor tom mic.

My mics currently consists of:

- 2 Sterling Audio Large Condensers for overheads
- Shure SM57 for snare
- Sennheiser e609 for rack tom
- Shure Beta 52 for floor tom
- AKG D112 for bass drum

I also just realized I've had a Peavey PVM 480 pencil condenser that someone left at my house MANY years ago. I figured it was a cheap mic and it's been in a box being stored since then. However, I just read that they're pretty good. I'll have to break that one out and test it! Assuming it works, I can get in touch with the original owner and he doesn't want it back, that would be good for either hi-hats or ride, depending on where I wanted a little more volume.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

Also, these mics can be used for a full live or recording drum setup (original intention), but the mics are also versatile and can be used for vocals, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, bass guitar cabs, etc... I used to do alot of home recording and I have the itch to get back into that. (I play other instruments as well)

Seems like a pretty versatile setup!
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Shure Beta 52a and AKG D112 - Video

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Originally Posted by SgtThump View Post
Also, these mics can be used for a full live or recording drum setup (original intention), but the mics are also versatile and can be used for vocals, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, bass guitar cabs, etc... I used to do alot of home recording and I have the itch to get back into that. (I play other instruments as well)

Seems like a pretty versatile setup!
Yup. The B52 is also very popular for micing bass guitar cabinets, and the D112 is my favorite tuba mic (for whatever that's worth). One big usability difference between the two is the B52 is very sensitive to mechanical noise (vibration from floor through stand, etc.), where the D112 has good mechanical isolation.
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