DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-27-2013, 06:58 PM
BlueSky's Avatar
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Middleburg, FL (a little south of Jacksonville)
Posts: 50
Default Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Okay, as I have previously stated, I am new, only had my kit for officially 7 days and never hit anything with a stick before that....so please bear that in mind when I ask these questions.
( I was supposed to have my first lesson on Wednesday, but my instructor is horribly sick, and I don't know when we will be able to reschedule. In the meantime, I am using a book with CD to try to get the rudiments.)

1. My kit has a crash/ride cymbal. I am not at the point where I am using it as a crash, so how do I set it up as a ride only - meaning how tight should it be and should it be at a certain angle? I don't know if this makes any difference, but its 13 inches. Right now it tends to resonate like a crash, even if I tap it lightly. (It doesn't sound like the example on the CD)

2. Having trouble playing the a basic combo at 4/4 with 1/8 on the ride, with the snare and bass added in. I can easily do combos at 4/4 with quarters only, its once those 1/8 are added in that the trouble begins. I used Uncle Larry's suggestion (thanks, by the way) about practicing at 40 BPM quarters for 20 minutes. Not easy, I found that if I counted 1-2-3-4 I was okay, but if I tried counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 I was screwed. Kept at it for 45 minutes until I wanted to throw the sticks. Every time I got into a solid rhythm for more than a few bars I would start dropping beats. Is this something all beginners face, or am I that untalented?

3. On that note, can anyone suggest websites with (printable) timing drills or a good book?

4. Also on that subject, I have been using a metronome app on a tablet, and It doesn't get nearly loud enough, and I don't like using headphones while practicing (4 young kids, they would tear up the house if I couldn't hear what they were doing) SO, any suggestions for a relatively inexpensive metronome? Preferable digital, I don't think a traditional one would last long in my house.

5. Is there a thread on here with a glossary of drummer lingo or shorthands used in posts? (Sometimes there are words or abbreviations I just can't figure out...)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-27-2013, 07:35 PM
Midnite Zephyr's Avatar
Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Surf City, USA
Posts: 6,242
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Welcome to the world of drumming. It is a tough thing getting started. It can take awhile to get proficient enough to jam with other people, but there are many people here who are/were in your exact position as far as drumming goes. I think it's an awesome hobby and therapeutic also much like Tai Chi or meditation if you take it to a spiritual level. But, as for now, you gotta learn some of the basics and that can take a little time. This isn't a microwave environment and unless you're superhuman, you're just gonna have to realize that will be frustrating and it will take some time to master the skills. A teacher will help you reach your goals quicker, but it's not absolutely necessary. There's a lot of stuff you can do on your own, especially now with the internet. I am a self-taught drummer (been playing 30+ years), but I did take music in grade school and high school, so the understanding of music theory was already there. But that's not really where your questions lie, so I'll try my best (with my limited knowledge) to answer your questions.

1. 13" is hardly a crash/ride, but whatever they say, huh? Typically a crash can be used as a ride, but generally a crash/ride is 18" and up. They contain more ride than crash in them. Think of them as a ride that can be used as a crash more than a crash that can be used as a ride. You'd wanna used that 13" cymbal as a ride during highly dynamic parts of a song. Anyway, it's just semantics.

Usually it is placed right over the outer edge of the floor tom with maybe a 10 degree angle toward you. Some like them flat too. Make sure the bell of the cymbal is within a comfortable arms' reach. They shouldn't be too tight or too loose either. Better looser than tighter. You don't want to crash your cymbals on the edge at 45 degrees, you want you sweep across them and tap them with the tip or the shank of the stick.

2. I am not a teacher, so i don't know what you are referring to when you say combo. If you play you bass drum on the quarters while you do the eighths on your snare, remember the "&"s are when you raise your leg. Maybe that will help you count. You can use the hi-hats on the quarters too, Many people use the high hats for their "timekeeper" tool.

No, you're not untalented, you're just like all of us when we started.

3. The "Stick Control" book (the classic answer to the classic question).

4. I don't use a metronome, so I don't know.

5. Haven't seen that thread yet....can't help you there.
__________________
Drumming for fun.

Last edited by Midnite Zephyr; 07-27-2013 at 08:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-27-2013, 08:20 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,285
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

One of the best beginner's method books I ever saw was the "Elementary Drum Method" written by Roy Burns (I think he wrote back in the 50s and it's still a standard today - now he owns Aquarian products, but he's quite a drummer).

That particular book takes you through the basics of reading, hand positioning (from what I remember) and basic music theory. That in conjunction with a good teacher should set you on the right path (although check with your teacher if he has a better recommendation).

For simple rock beats, I'd check out Realistic Rock by Carmine Appice (another old standard from the 60s). It doesn't stay simple for long, but it's one of the best books out there for beginning drumset stuff.

As far as metronomes go, I have no cheap recommendations. I use the old Boss DB66 Dr. Beat which is digital and loud enough for you to hear, plus you can plug in headphones to it (if you have to). I've had mine for about 20 years now, and when I bought it it was $90.

Welcome to our world and remember to keep it fun!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-28-2013, 01:40 AM
bromasi bromasi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 233
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

no question is Ignorant ,if you don't know, ask, only way to learn.We are glad to pass on what knowledge we have,hopefully it will be good advice
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-28-2013, 03:49 PM
Jeff Almeyda's Avatar
Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
Senior Consultant
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,709
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

For a total beginner I would actually say 40 bpm is too slow. There is a lot of space between those notes.

I would play med slow like 80 bpm on basic beats to get them flowing a little.
__________________
Either you have a purpose behind your expression... or you don't.
JoJo Mayer
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-28-2013, 06:46 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,461
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
For a total beginner I would actually say 40 bpm is too slow. There is a lot of space between those notes.

I would play med slow like 80 bpm on basic beats to get them flowing a little.
Agree with this. When you are just starting, there's bigger fish to fry. Basic 3 way coordination/separation comes before 40 BPM practice. You have to get a good technique down first and basic 3 way coordination. But I do suggest practicing to the metronome, so you learn even meter. Just not too slow yet.

Also, try not to get to the point where you want to throw sticks. Getting mad only inflames the negative, it does nothing to enhance the positive. A big part of learning to drum is having the right mental attitude. It's supposed to be fun and challenging, not frustrating and negative emotion inducing. That needs to be eliminated straight away. So it's OK if you can't do stuff. When you are able to do it, you will appreciate it that much more. So lighten up.

Think of drumming as a giant 1 million pound boulder that you have to chip away at with a small hammer and chisel until it weighs about 10 lbs. It's friggin hard and it takes a long time. So get comfy, pull up a chair, put a smile on your face and laugh at yourself when you instruct your limbs to do something....and they don't. Everything you are experiencing....we all went through it too. So you are not untalented. You simply don't have the hours in yet.
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-29-2013, 04:58 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Think I went a couple months before I could get my R hand and R foot to play something different. Ya, you are ok.

Protect your ears, get a comfy seat, teacher and a practice pad. 13" cymbal is fine for practice but it is def not a ride.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:25 AM
picodon's Avatar
picodon picodon is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: France
Posts: 659
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Re 2, remember Homer Simpson: if something is hard to do, then it's not worth doing ! :p

There are plenty of free metronome apps
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:24 PM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

With regards to the metronome situation, unfortunately it is going to really boil down to what you are playing the metronome through. If you are using an Android phone, I currently use the free version of one called "Mobile Metronome" by Gabriel Simoes. While I haven't played it through a hifi system, the sound effects he uses are quite good and clear, but you won't get enough volume out of the phone on its own, most likely.

Another solution is to play with one earbud in, and use that to listen to the metronome. It's not ideal, but it might work for you. Unfortunately, you might cause hearing damage in order to get it loud enough to hear over the drums. It really is best to use earplugs and wear headphones over the top, and eventually in-ear monitors (I made my own using model silicon putty, not as good as professionally made ones, but they work great). But as you've stated, this isn't an option, so you might need to be a little creative :).

Oh, and with regards to a metronome, when I stop being lazy, I'm planning on developing a metronome app for Android (and hopefully portable to other platforms) that will incorporate a few advanced features that I haven't found in metronomes before. I will of course, make it known to everyone here as I'm sure people would appreciate what I have in mind :)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-02-2013, 03:31 AM
dakdroid dakdroid is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Give Drummer's Metronome (Android/free) a try. Why? Because I made it :-)
Jokes aside. If you choose the 'Beep Micro' sample, you should be able to hear it, but you should really get comfortable with using headphones. Get a pair of sound isolating ones like Shure SE215 and don't put the volume too high.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-02-2013, 04:20 AM
BlueSky's Avatar
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Middleburg, FL (a little south of Jacksonville)
Posts: 50
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakdroid View Post
Give Drummer's Metronome (Android/free) a try. Why? Because I made it :-)
Jokes aside. If you choose the 'Beep Micro' sample, you should be able to hear it, but you should really get comfortable with using headphones. Get a pair of sound isolating ones like Shure SE215 and don't put the volume too high.
I would love to, but it isn't compatible with my phone. Its actually the first one I tried to download. I like to say that I don't have a smart phone, I have a relatively intelligent phone.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-02-2013, 04:33 AM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,741
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by picodon View Post
Re 2, remember Homer Simpson: if something is hard to do, then it's not worth doing ! :p

There are plenty of free metronome apps
...some of which suck.

I tried one that sped up and slowed down more than I did when I first started playing.

It took me a while to realise that in addition to my playing problems, a metronome that couldn't keep time was not the most useful thing on the planet.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-02-2013, 07:13 AM
Brian Brian is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 1,424
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
For a total beginner I would actually say 40 bpm is too slow. There is a lot of space between those notes.

I would play med slow like 80 bpm on basic beats to get them flowing a little.
Good point.

Also I'd say that as sort of a math and stat type, there's always a valid "range" and really, it's a good idea to explore different tempos, especially as a beginner. At first, there are going to be exercises easy to play at 60bpm and impossible at 120, but reverse on others - 60bpm will scare.

Find what you can do or are good at, make a mental note (or write it down if you're a nerd like me) and move on; find what you can't do and make it right.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:28 PM
Namaan Namaan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSky View Post
Okay, as I have previously stated, I am new, only had my kit for officially 7 days and never hit anything with a stick before that....so please bear that in mind when I ask these questions.
( I was supposed to have my first lesson on Wednesday, but my instructor is horribly sick, and I don't know when we will be able to reschedule. In the meantime, I am using a book with CD to try to get the rudiments.)

1. My kit has a crash/ride cymbal. I am not at the point where I am using it as a crash, so how do I set it up as a ride only - meaning how tight should it be and should it be at a certain angle? I don't know if this makes any difference, but its 13 inches. Right now it tends to resonate like a crash, even if I tap it lightly. (It doesn't sound like the example on the CD)

2. Having trouble playing the a basic combo at 4/4 with 1/8 on the ride, with the snare and bass added in. I can easily do combos at 4/4 with quarters only, its once those 1/8 are added in that the trouble begins. I used Uncle Larry's suggestion (thanks, by the way) about practicing at 40 BPM quarters for 20 minutes. Not easy, I found that if I counted 1-2-3-4 I was okay, but if I tried counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 I was screwed. Kept at it for 45 minutes until I wanted to throw the sticks. Every time I got into a solid rhythm for more than a few bars I would start dropping beats. Is this something all beginners face, or am I that untalented?

3. On that note, can anyone suggest websites with (printable) timing drills or a good book?

4. Also on that subject, I have been using a metronome app on a tablet, and It doesn't get nearly loud enough, and I don't like using headphones while practicing (4 young kids, they would tear up the house if I couldn't hear what they were doing) SO, any suggestions for a relatively inexpensive metronome? Preferable digital, I don't think a traditional one would last long in my house.

5. Is there a thread on here with a glossary of drummer lingo or shorthands used in posts? (Sometimes there are words or abbreviations I just can't figure out...)
Firstly, welcome of the world/art/science of drumming

1. several others have already answered this one, so I'll leave it as is.

2. you sound just like me when i started, and even today after a fair amount of playing, i still meet things that i can't do straight off the bat, you're not alone in facing difficulty behind the kit.

3. there are many places on the web that will help you, some have already been mentioned, also, Youtube can be helpful for most drum related stuff.

4 i use a korg MA-30 metronome...take a look at one, may be suitable.

5. I'm sure there's one somewhere. a quick Google will probably turn up dozens.

all the best,

N
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:33 AM
Bastille Bastille is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 59
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

What I did when I was having trouble subdividing is count the stroke as the 1 lifting it back as the &. The trick is getting it into terms your mind can grasp... the sooner you make counting and subdividing the beat a habit, the faster your limbs become independent.

Also, a great metronome is the Boss DB-30 Dr. Beat metronome. $40 at Guitar Center and it has all kinds of beat patterns to help you.

Good luck! The people on this forum are definitely willing to help with any questions you have... just always make sure you search first. Haha.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:47 AM
rhumbagirl's Avatar
rhumbagirl rhumbagirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 255
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
...some of which suck.

I tried one that sped up and slowed down more than I did when I first started playing.

It took me a while to realise that in addition to my playing problems, a metronome that couldn't keep time was not the most useful thing on the planet.
I'm probably one of the few that don't practice with a metronome. I do practice to mp3s, which is like a metronome I suppose, but that's more to "maintain" technique, not actually "learn" it, which is about trying to control the stick in some new way. When I'm practicing controlling the stick in some new way, the stick is going to be bouncing with different heights, angles, speeds, and doing so in a sporadic fashion. I find forcing myself to lock into a bpm from a metronome means I have to stop and restart to realign, or more likely sacrifice technique to STAY aligned. Why not allow yourself to slow down with the difficult parts of your playing?

Another view of technique is that you know you've got it when your stick height is consistent. And if your stick height is consistent, then aren't you automatically playing within some resonant frequency (assuming you're also playing efficiently)?

Metronomes, rubber pads, books... just grab some wood baby!!!!

Peace :-)

Steph
__________________
Right handed, traditional grip, jazz player
Pearl Reference kit with Pearl rack
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-06-2013, 01:11 AM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,741
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhumbagirl View Post

... just grab some wood baby!!!!

Steph
Best advice ever given on DW.

Or anywhere else for that matter.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-06-2013, 02:07 AM
rhumbagirl's Avatar
rhumbagirl rhumbagirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 255
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
Best advice ever given on DW.

Or anywhere else for that matter.
Well thanks! I don't know where I come up with this "stuff". Does DW draw it out of me? I suppose to some extent. LOL But putting thoughts into words is a large part of the experience here too. And that is a challenge I find, especially when I consider myself a "playing member", in at least that I'm regularly practicing (and sometimes playing), and some days find myself typing more than playing.

I mean did the jazz greats practice to a metronome, or did they just get thrown into gigs and learn on the spot? And what is this "resonant frequency"? Is it just "stuff" or does it allude to something tangible and real? My use of this physics term was to allude to a natural movement, using rebound and proper (ie "efficient") technique... maximizing rebound results in attaining resonance, if that makes any sense.

Can someone with a physics degree come in and wade in here please?

Yeah, I think if one plays enough then all these things sort of work themselves out. So...

Just grab some wood babyyyy!!!! LOL

Thanks again!

Steph
__________________
Right handed, traditional grip, jazz player
Pearl Reference kit with Pearl rack
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:17 AM
BlueSky's Avatar
BlueSky BlueSky is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Middleburg, FL (a little south of Jacksonville)
Posts: 50
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhumbagirl View Post

Yeah, I think if one plays enough then all these things sort of work themselves out. So...

Just grab some wood babyyyy!!!! LOL
Funny you should say that...

I finally found a teacher, and within 30 minutes he had me using my limbs in concert, something I had struggled with for weeks.
I was also still struggling with timing, so he told me find my favorite song, or one I wanted to learn how to play. Stripped down it has the classic bass-snare 4/4 groove. He has me playing it over and over again. No fills, and no stopping even when the song is nothing but a vocal track. My timing has improved a hundred fold. Playing those bars where there is no drum beat to "follow" and being on the right beat when they do come back in is immensely satisfying.

Guess I just needed to grab some wood!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-06-2013, 06:51 AM
leanneislearningtodrum's Avatar
leanneislearningtodrum leanneislearningtodrum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 78
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhumbagirl View Post
...just grab some wood baby!!!!

Peace :-)

Steph
I usually tell myself "just play"- an effective but boring phrase.
Now I've got a much better one to replace it with!

PS. In my head, I'm hearing this in the voice of Austin Powers. Is it just me?
__________________
www.leanneislearningtodrum.com (a blog about drumming, from a beginner's point of view)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-06-2013, 09:45 AM
Magenta's Avatar
Magenta Magenta is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gwlad Cymru
Posts: 3,178
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

JAMES! You should be ashamed of yourself!
__________________
Thinly veiled angel

Ladies & gentlemen, I've suffered for my art. Now it's your turn (Neil Innes)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-06-2013, 09:52 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Default Re: Ridiculously Ignorant Newbie Questions

I'm more thinking along the lines of, the comma is missing, so you're telling me to grab some random wooden baby :P
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com