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  #1  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:59 PM
Bastille Bastille is offline
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Default Please help me identify this technique!

So, after watching this video... many, many times... I have yet to figure out exactly what technique Lyle is using for his right handed blast beats. Google and forum search haven't helped me whatsoever, unfortunately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jLXxqj8pso

It's what he is doing around 3:00. The closest I can get is that it is maybe push-pull but it still doesn't seem correct... he's one of my drumming idols and I'd really love to identify and practice whatever technique seems to be working for him.

His left hand technique seems to be a little different... flying fingers maybe?

P.S., this is my first post on this account. Last time I was on the site and posted something was several months ago and the account seems to have disintegrated into the depths of the internet at this point. I know you guys are wary of first posts but I am desperate to know what he's doing...

Thank you for any and all (constructive) comments!
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2013, 11:04 PM
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Arky Arky is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Looks the same to me - R hand does push-pull, L hand flying fingers (some prefer the term finger control/French/timpani grip, but in the end it's the same).

He might be your hero but this doesn't mean that whatever technique works best for him works best for you, too. Also - just as a general remark that refers to that part at around 3.00 minutes - he's using various grips/techniques as he's playing different drum elements having different rebound and also wants to get different sounds out of those surfaces.

(I've seen that video before - the man has some mad skills!)
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2013, 11:24 PM
Bastille Bastille is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

Thank you, Arky!

Glad to see that you were seeing the same thing I was. I definitely get you on the "what works for him" part but I have always been a predominately wrist-based player and feel like push-pull is one of the only options that I'd be comfortable with.

It is a great video! I have literally watched that video 150+ times in the last few months. It's just so inspirational... but the fact that he was like 21 at the time makes me want to quit. Hahaha.

Thanks again for the helpful response!
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2013, 03:31 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

I hear what you mean about primarily being a wrist player.

But I have a suggestion.

Put the work into learning to play with fingers using French grip. It was a real struggle for me, but it has improved my OVERALL technique and made me a much better drummer. I think it took about 3 months of daily, consistent practise following the starting exercises in 'Technique Patterns' by Gary Chaffee, but really what it boils down to is isolating each finger and working on them both independently and separately.

It was surprisingly difficult with my left hand, I just couldn't coordinate my fingers and them to activate the stick in the right plane of motion, but I got there in the end. Now after years of crappy matched grip technique, my left hand especially no longer feels like it is stuck behind a permanent plateau due to poor technique.

Even if you don't use it in practise (which I do, but extremely rarely), you might just find that it will improve things for you in general, I know it did for me.

I still can't do push pull though :)
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2013, 02:22 PM
DustinB DustinB is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

I think arky is right.

Looking at this now, when I play blasts I kind of play the same way. I can't get that shaking motion with my left hand, but I can get the same speed with just that finger motion/french grip. I'm sure I could fix this, but I've been moving away from blast beats so of and more towards blake richardsons style from between the buried and me's last 2 or 3 albums. Just really enjoy his playing. I've always loved the faceless though, especially planetary duality.

I think part of it is i could never get push pull with my left comfortably, or the moeller even. I can do it as fast as I want to almost with my right, but it just never feels right. I think part of this is due to drumming for 8 or 9 years and having a lazy left hand. I used to rest my left hand on my leg lol. Also think it might be why the french grip was so easy to me.

But practicing isolating fingers with french grip should get you there in no time. I especially liked jojo mayers way of holding your pointer finger with the other hand to help keep it steady. Really helped me gain a lot of control, I've actually forgotten about this until just now, I need to practice this again >.>

<3 Lyle's facial expressions :P and the fact he humps his drums when he plays double bass. Dudes a beast.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:57 PM
Bastille Bastille is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

So the general consensus is to learn french grip, whether I think I'll like it or not? That's a pretty valid suggestion... I guess the idea is to have all the tools under your belt just in case.

What drew me to push-pull was that it could be used on any surface... I hate the idea of learning flying fingers because it almost seems gimmicky to me. I can only use it on the snare while push/pull can be transferred to just about anything.

And yeah, I watch Secret Weapons all the time but sometimes the video still leaves me with question and I'm terrified of practicing something incorrectly.

Lyle Cooper rules. I stopped listening to the band when he left... he was the only part I really listened to most of the time. Hahaha. His live videos are so entertaining.

EDIT: Also, thanks for all the suggestions, guys!

Last edited by Bastille; 07-22-2013 at 11:57 PM. Reason: added end
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2013, 07:38 PM
DustinB DustinB is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastille View Post
So the general consensus is to learn french grip, whether I think I'll like it or not? That's a pretty valid suggestion... I guess the idea is to have all the tools under your belt just in case.

What drew me to push-pull was that it could be used on any surface... I hate the idea of learning flying fingers because it almost seems gimmicky to me. I can only use it on the snare while push/pull can be transferred to just about anything.

And yeah, I watch Secret Weapons all the time but sometimes the video still leaves me with question and I'm terrified of practicing something incorrectly.

Lyle Cooper rules. I stopped listening to the band when he left... he was the only part I really listened to most of the time. Hahaha. His live videos are so entertaining.

EDIT: Also, thanks for all the suggestions, guys!
I don't see a reason to not practice french grip...and when you practice it, try to get the stick to rebound up to 12", over time you should be able to play on any surface, and if not, it will probably help you in the push pull, it will strengthen your fingers.

I think it can relate to working out. Look at bodybuilders/athletes. They are always doing different exercises. Keep the muscles guessing.

Also you don't like Alex Rudinger? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuPYJ0bzOdM
He's got a million drum covers from like all my favorite bands lol. I think the dude is way good, and fairly excited to find out he was the new drummer.

Came across this yesterday somehow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEhdHLDg9dQ
He calls it the hybrid technique. Makes sense to me.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:56 PM
shadowlorde shadowlorde is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

left hand looks like all finger .. but I can't tell if the right hand is doing push pull or 2-stroke moeller.

it looks like he's getting decent height and power which makes me lean more towards moeller ..
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2013, 10:35 PM
Bastille Bastille is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

2 stroke moeller... it's certainly possible. I did notice how high the stick was getting which really seemed uncharacteristic of faster push-pull...

I do like Alex, he's an amazing drummer and he's only 21ish which is nuts. But The Faceless has become The Michael Keene Show and I guess Lyle "leaving" was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Thanks for that link, by the way! I'm definitely interested in his technique... I'm always interested in hybrids but everyone's advice ends at "just mix the techniques together", as if that's helpful at all. Haha.
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:52 AM
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Sjogras Sjogras is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

Be sure to practice using your fingers only. As mentioned, practicing each finger individually is great.

I noticed in the video how he sits so far back that he has to lean forward while playing, that will result in back problems eventually.
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  #11  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:05 AM
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John Lamb John Lamb is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

another vote for Arky's response. I think the thing that makes it look strange is the frame rate + shutter speed. The shutter speed is fast enough that the images don't really blend together well, making it seem like he's moving faster than you can see.
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2013, 07:22 PM
Bastille Bastille is offline
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Default Re: Please help me identify this technique!

Thanks for the tip... working fingers individually has definitely caused remarkable progress in a few short days!

That's true about the shutter speed... I wish Lyle was a little less camera shy and would do some hi-def drum videos so we could really see what he was doing... because whatever it is, it's working. Haha.
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