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  #1  
Old 05-29-2013, 10:01 PM
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ba dum tish ba dum tish is offline
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Default Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Here's the song for those unfamiliar

I can play the shuffle on the hi-hat at slower speeds no problem, but playing it at this song's tempo is hard for me to keep going. This makes me think that my technique may need some tweaking in order to play it faster with more ease. Right now, I'm doing the whipping motion where I hit the shoulder of the stick on the side of the hi-hat on every quarter note, and I hit the tip of the stick on the top of the hi-hat every third 8th note triplet. This gives it that accented/unaccented dynamic.

Does anyone have any tips? For instance, do you find French/German/American grip works the better than the rest for something like this? Do you use fingers to make any strokes, and if so the down-stroke or the upstroke? As of now I'm not really using fingers deliberately to make strokes, as it more comes from the wrist whip motion. Would you recommend trying to play it all on the top of the hi-hat to get the speed in?

Any tips at all would be appreciated. I know there's no one "best" way to anything, but I'm sure many of you have figured out a few tips and tricks that have helped you get better at the hi-hat shuffle pattern over the years that could very well help me too!
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:07 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

I play quick shuffles using a wrist generated downstroke that pushes my fingers out and an upstroke using the fingers and wrist to return to the beginning. It's essentially a double stroke. I use a similar technique in both a French and American sort of position.

It's not unlike John Riley's "drop stroke" where the first stroke is essentially dropped onto the surface for the downbeat and then the stick is collected on the way back up to create the shuffled note.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:31 PM
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opentune opentune is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Well there are faster shuffle tempos than this one (about 90 bpm). I'm afraid you're just going to have to work that hand up to that speed. I think with enough practice its do-able. Believe me I am no great shuffle player but from scratch worked up Tush (ZZ Top, 140 bpm)...took a couple months to be comfortable with it.

Not sure how much you're using your fingers? Another suggestion is maybe not to play every stroke on hihat, but have it come off the hat on the downbeat (ala Charlie Watts). That will save you some strokes. I'm sure others on here have better ideas.

Good luck, its a great song.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Not sure how much you're using your fingers? Another suggestion is maybe not to play every stroke on hihat, but have it come off the hat on the downbeat (ala Charlie Watts). That will save you some strokes. I'm sure others on here have better ideas.
Well the interesting thing is that in Santeria he actually omits the hi-hat notes on the 2 and 4 (I found this out by watching the music video and confirmed it by listening closely). I never considered that this would actually make it easier to play, but I guess it makes sense since you get to take those little breaks. When I cover this song I will do it that way, but I'd still like to have the option of playing on the hi-hat all the way through and not being limited by my technique.

Also, I'm not really using my fingers. Do you?
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:24 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

That drummer wasnt the best but what he did, he did really well. Such great music too. Dirty, grungy, funky as anything, crude, and swingin rock and roll all the way. I love it in case you couldnt tell.

He plays other songs as fast and plays all the notes of the shuffle and I think you (we) just have to work up to it.
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:58 AM
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bosman bosman is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

I think this is that drummer. Pretty cool

http://youtu.be/LODRRDStIUA
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:21 AM
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ba dum tish ba dum tish is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

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Originally Posted by bosman View Post
I think this is that drummer. Pretty cool

http://youtu.be/LODRRDStIUA
It is that drummer! This is an awesome resource to have, thank you very much!
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:07 AM
Duracell Duracell is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Like others said. He omits the 2 and 4, often other notes as well. The pattern is more broken. Note that I don't think this is just for speed reasons alone. It helps with those off-beat accents he puts in (which are quite essential for the feel).
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:10 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

It's not a hard part to pick out, but you might enjoy this anyway. :)

Bermuda
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 santeria.mp3 (2.80 MB, 132 views)
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  #10  
Old 05-30-2013, 07:05 PM
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ba dum tish ba dum tish is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It's not a hard part to pick out, but you might enjoy this anyway. :)

Bermuda
Very helpful, thanks!
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2013, 10:04 PM
EvilDrummer EvilDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

I had the same problem but after getting some lessons from bill bachman I can play it up to speed. We didn't even exercise that technique. However I did a ton of free stroke exercises.

I think it was the irish spring exercise with all free strokes that helped me 1,42 in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQDPqybzdo

But don't play it like he does, the starting and ending position of the stick should be at 90 degrees. It should be the same height as the stick goes up to which will be lower the faster you play.

I think because the first stroke bounces up freely now it's much easier to play the second stroke and it's all effortless.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:02 PM
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ba dum tish ba dum tish is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDrummer View Post
I had the same problem but after getting some lessons from bill bachman I can play it up to speed. We didn't even exercise that technique. However I did a ton of free stroke exercises.

I think it was the irish spring exercise with all free strokes that helped me 1,42 in the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFQDPqybzdo

But don't play it like he does, the starting and ending position of the stick should be at 90 degrees. It should be the same height as the stick goes up to which will be lower the faster you play.

I think because the first stroke bounces up freely now it's much easier to play the second stroke and it's all effortless.
So when you play the shuffle using this technique, are you playing all stroke on the top of the hi-hat? Or do you play the accents on the side of the hi-hat? I'm just trying to think of how exactly you would incorporate the free strokes to achieve the da-DA da-DA da-DA pattern. If you did a free stroke for the DA (the accented hit), then you would be in position to drop the stick from the same height for the da (unaccented hit). Wouldn't that give you the same volume as the first hit?
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:10 PM
EvilDrummer EvilDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Need help with shuffle technique on hi-hat for Sublime's Santeria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ba dum tish View Post
So when you play the shuffle using this technique, are you playing all stroke on the top of the hi-hat? Or do you play the accents on the side of the hi-hat? I'm just trying to think of how exactly you would incorporate the free strokes to achieve the da-DA da-DA da-DA pattern. If you did a free stroke for the DA (the accented hit), then you would be in position to drop the stick from the same height for the da (unaccented hit). Wouldn't that give you the same volume as the first hit?
I not playing shuffle using this technique but learning the exercise with all free strokes that bounce back by them selves was a gateway into playing fast shuffle like I was previously playing it only now my hands are much more loose and not in the way of the natural motion of the stick.

I'm playing it kind of like a whip stroke and an upstroke but my hands are almost not in contact of the stick, they are only guiding it. Before I was forcing the strokes more I guess.

An easy way to practice this is to play double strokes as free strokes. Just play two free strokes and as you get faster your hands will automatically learn to play the first free stroke using mostly wrist and the second mostly fingers. The irish spring exercise is excellent for this but it's important that both strokes really bounce back up by them selves.

When you learn to do this up to speed if you try the same technique you are trying to play now you will be able to play it I think.

Take a look at these videos on free strokes first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPAO0TSp594

I think there are 4 videos, watch them all, they might change your technique completely as they did for me.
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