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  #1  
Old 05-12-2013, 09:14 AM
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Default Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Ok, this bugs me. Maybe I have a different perspective to many on this. Is it just me, or are most kits on display in exhibitions, & shops too, tuned like crap? Out of all the shops I've visited in the last year, only one shop had ONE KIT that was anything like tuned reasonably well. Much much worse than that, most kits I've seen on exhibition stands/booths are badly tuned too. Now the exhibition stand deal I really don't get. These are supposedly staffed by people who know what they're doing, & I'm talking "professionals" employed by the big companies here too. Not only is poor tuning very bad for their business, but I also think it's a bit insulting to drummers too. Would you find a badly tuned guitar on a trade stand? I think not.

I take a recent small scale exhibition we attended as an example. The night before the show opened, I spent about two hours tuning up all the drums. The following morning, I was in early to tweak them up again. There were several pro techs at the show, and all (unsolicited) pointed out how poor many of the other kits sounded. Not the drums themselves, the tuning, & I'm talking kits on display with unevenly crinkled heads here!!!!. I really don't get it. Why would you not put the effort in? Do you think your customers are that stupid? Maybe I'm wasting my time & drummers buy with their eyes after all? (well, actually, they mostly do, but you have to have some faith- eh!)

Here's our little Classic kit (20" x 12" bass drum) being played on our stand at the end of the day. Obviously, by then, it's not exactly as sweet as it was at the start of the exhibition. Please tell me I'm not deluding myself here, & it actually makes a difference.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ohdy...=youtu.be&hd=1


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Old 05-12-2013, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Basically Andy it comes down to this. People are lazy. They carry the drums into the show, they unbox them, they set them up and they consider their work done.
You on the other hand go the extra mile.
It is the same in the music stores. Drums are placed on the floor as they come from the box.
Drum Workshop ships their drums tuned because just like you they go the extra mile.
They want their products displayed in a standard that reflects their professional image.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Basically Andy it comes down to this. People are lazy. They carry the drums into the show, they unbox them, they set them up and they consider their work done.
You on the other hand go the extra mile.
It is the same in the music stores. Drums are placed on the floor as they come from the box.
Drum Workshop ships their drums tuned because just like you they go the extra mile.
They want their products displayed in a standard that reflects their professional image.
I think you're right, laziness is the key here Bob, but I just don't get it. Do they not want to sell drums? It's the same as having dirty vehicles on a car lot, but worse, because at least the car still drives.

I like the fact that DW bother to tune their drums, but TBH, that only goes some way towards getting it right. This is one area were I agree with DW. If you don't tune your drums at some stage prior to despatch, how do you fully check them for faults? By the time you've shipped those drums half way round the world, they're not going to be in the best state of tune. It's up to those displaying the kits to get their act together. I've seen examples of manufacturers displaying kits that are a tuning disgrace. I'm often left thinking, if you can't tune your drums, where is your design credibility? How can you optimise an instrument's design if you don't know how to tune the damn thing?

I'm not getting at people's tuning skills here. I realise it's a black art to some extent, but the simple fact is this, a manufacturer's exhibit at a show should be displaying the very best of their wares. Others rely on manufacturers to know what they're doing. If you're going to step out there as someone who advises others, you have a duty to carry out your profession with some depth & credibility, & being able to tune your product to a good standard, is surely first base stuff. Stores getting this wrong, or being lazy, is one thing, but manufacturers being lazy is a disgrace to themselves and insulting to their customers.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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The night before the show opened, I spent about two hours tuning up all the drums.
That's the difference right there. Some staff of big companies are right into it but some not so much. Meanwhile, partners in small business have to be gung ho to survive.

I get what you mean with the G1 heads. Nice.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I totally get where you are coming from Andy, and like was said above it's laziness.

Yeah it might be a pain to move and setup and tear down kits for these shows but that's the profession those people chose and knew what they would be doing. Another thing is the fact that most, unfortunately, are there for a paycheck they have no stake in the game if you will. They get paid whether something sells or not. Unlike a smaller company like yours where you take pride in your products and you have a stake in the game as you are the owner. Big difference.

I don't think most of the big time company reps realize how many people wish they had their job and it's sad.

When I was shopping for a kit a few years ago the first thing I did was ask for a drum key when I walked into the store because as you have noted the kits aren't tuned worth a crap which is frustrating and sad.

Comes down to pride in what you do, which you have. Too bad many people lack that trait these days!
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I always had that problem. I go to the store and would like to try different things/change brand and I end up bring disappointed. Tuned like crap and got that 80's sound with .1 sec decay. Same goes with rehearsal studios.
I try to tune top head and something decent but next thing you know , 20 minutes went by .
Same thing happened to a guitar center drum off. Was the second guy. Between the 1st guy and I , we got the tons yo sound pretty decent. Bass drum was so lose that there was no rebound (it was harder to tune "down there")
I feel your pain. And that is one of the reasons I stick with yamaha. I know the got quality stuff.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I totally agree. These events should be a way for companies to show how good their drums sound. If they can't even tune the drums it just makes them/the company look bad.
nice sounding kit btw, ive only seen guru snare drums, are you guys making kits now?
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..

On the other hand. I think there is a trend here to have drums tuned up to higher, more resonant ranges where there are lots of drummers out there that love them dead and flat. Dare I say, the majority of drummers when you consider all the control ring/gaffer/duct tape kids you see out there on you tube? I think a lot of people just dont know. How long would most of us have gone with crappy tuning abilities without this place?

Personally, I think that Guru kit was tuned too high and would sound better with some wrinkles in the tom batters. I love that sound :).
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Having seen Andy tune drums very quickly, I have to say it's impressive just how skilled you are mate!

The last time I saw you was probably in about January, at the Amedia exhibition. Sitting there on the floor of the studio with a pair of keys on the high tom of the little Guru kit, swearing.

I'm absolutely with you though. I don't understand why companies would show off kits that aren't tuned. Or indeed music shops. It hurts their bottom line and it's not like it costs any more to do - provided the stock heads at least function - which they usually do.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Face it mate, most people have low standards and a "who gives a crap" work ethic. It confounds me too. Why do all that work and stop before it's done? They either don't know any better or are lazy. I don't know which is worse.

That's better for you though. Look on it as a blessing.

That said, it gets under my skin too. I just have no patience for people with a lazy work ethic. I am totally with you in your feelings here. The best you can do is to raise the bar. F the rest, they don't deserve anything if they don't even realize there's more work to do. Things like this separate the chaff from the wheat.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..
Funnily enough, my exceptions to this rule were all at Guitar Center. There was a great guy working there who actually replaced all the heads on the high-end kits, so I got to play a Renown, a Performance, and a Performer B/B with great tuning and real heads. I've never really had that to be the case anywhere else (especially other guitar centers).
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I know I feel like going to Guitar Center corporate and have them hire me to keep their kits within tune in a 50 mile radius from me. I could justify my expense to them by convincing them that they would sell twice the amount of kits. Which I believe they would.

People go into a GC and say, I tried a (insert brand name here) set of drums and didn't like them, but I liked the (insert another brand name here) kit much better. If I were in charge at corporate, I would insist that all drum kits out on the floor were tuned to a certain standard, of which I would dictate precisely, in a form of a written protocol, how to achieve that.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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I get what you mean with the G1 heads. Nice.
Thanks Grea :) I like the kit at that tuning, kind of nearly jazz mode ;) Some G1's, & it's happy, but it can rock low with clears on too.

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Originally Posted by konaboy View Post
I don't think most of the big time company reps realize how many people wish they had their job and it's sad.
The business certainly has a habit of jading you, I get that, but like anything else, the difference between those who choose to shine & those who don't, is passion.

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Originally Posted by drum4fun27302 View Post
I feel your pain. And that is one of the reasons I stick with yamaha. I know the got quality stuff.
& isn't it a shame that your experiences force you to rely on one manufacturer. Don'y get me wrong, Yamaha make great stuff, but it would be nice if you could make that decision based on positive experiences.

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Originally Posted by TomPlaysDrums View Post
nice sounding kit btw, ive only seen guru snare drums, are you guys making kits now?
Thanks, & yes, we've been making kits for about 5 years now, & the very advanced designs for a little over two years.

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Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
I think there is a trend here to have drums tuned up to higher, more resonant ranges where there are lots of drummers out there that love them dead and flat.

Personally, I think that Guru kit was tuned too high and would sound better with some wrinkles in the tom batters. I love that sound :).
In this instance, it's on the stand as a compact classic kit, so deliberately tuned higher medium. That gets it into the small quality vintage vibe. This thread isn't anything to do with tuning choices, it's bothering to tune at all. I don't mind low & wrinkled, but tuned low & wrinkled as opposed to "I haven't even bothered to get my tuning key out!. :)

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Having seen Andy tune drums very quickly --------

Sitting there on the floor of the studio with a pair of keys on the high tom of the little Guru kit, swearing.
I sit on the floor & swear a lot at drums Duncan ;) ;) ;) if they don't behave instantly, they get a good telling off!!!! If I remember correctly, that was a very small & dead room. I hate those with passion, & so do our drums (well, all drums, actually).

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Face it mate, most people have low standards
I can only conclude that many do Larry, but I also must be mindful that I'm not getting too anal too. I set high standards of myself, & get quite pissed (on behalf of the industry) when others take a very lazy path. I'm now laughing at myself, as clearly, I don't apply the same standards to my playing.

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
Funnily enough, my exceptions to this rule were all at Guitar Center. There was a great guy working there who actually replaced all the heads on the high-end kits, so I got to play a Renown, a Performance, and a Performer B/B with great tuning and real heads. I've never really had that to be the case anywhere else (especially other guitar centers).
It's great to hear of good practice. Clearly, that guy had pride in his work, despite his lack of control over the environment. Good on him!!!



BTW, as an aside, does anyone like the tuning on this video?
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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I am often amazed at how many people say they "tried a kit in a muxic store and loved it". I have never seen anything but the worst heads and a total lack of tuning on kits in stores..
This is why I Never leave my home without a drum key. The employees at the shops I visit know me and know what I do and have no problems with me touching up some of their kit that I'm interested in. This does include Guitar Center.

Dennis
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I would say that a good standard protocol for store display tuning would be medium tuning tension.
That way the drum would be producing a full round tone.
They could simply use a tune bot or a drum dial to set the drums close enough so that a good demonstration could be had by a shopper.

I was selling a kit a few years ago. I tuned the drums medium tension with both heads on the toms matching in pitch to give a full sound. I figured that when someone came to see the kit they would get a good idea of how the kit sounded with it tuned in that manor.
A buyer came and he sat behind the drums. I explained to him that the drums were tuned in the middle of their range so he could go up or down with the tuning as he liked. He hit the toms for a while and he took a key from his pocket. He then detuned one lug of the batter head on each of the toms until they sounded like crap.
I asked him why he did that. He said that he likes to tune his drums that way because he likes that sound. He bought the kit so all was good but I never understood his logic.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post


BTW, as an aside, does anyone like the tuning on this video?
I thought they sounded nice. I would call that a medium tuning. I thought the kick needed a little more tweaking though, I'm guessing a tighter kick reso. Was there a felt beater that day?

I'm partial to the clear head sound and a hard beater. I'm all about the attack. Coated heads and felt beaters soften the attack for me.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I was just kidding about the tuning of your kit and liking wrinkled heads. Again proving that I should not attempt sarcasm here. They sound incredible, as always. Going to stop talking now haha.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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I thought they sounded nice. I would call that a medium tuning. I thought the kick needed a little more tweaking though, I'm guessing a tighter kick reso. Was there a felt beater that day?

I'm partial to the clear head sound and a hard beater. I'm all about the attack. Coated heads and felt beaters soften the attack for me.
Yes Larry, felt beater, coated heads all round. When I select heads & tune kits for an exhibition stand, I have to think in terms of showing variety, & also a bias towards each kit's strengths. In this case, the 6 piece custom kit had G2 over G1 clear, & was tuned "studio style", the 5 piece padauk performance kit had progressively thicker single ply clear heads, & was tuned big & open. The little Classic kit (video) had coated heads, & was tuned in the classic style - full, fairly short, medium, with plenty of warm tone. Also tuned in recognition of it's small sizes. A hand held cam doesn't exactly capture everything that's going on. The bass drum was delivering plenty of low end, & the reso was medium tight. Listen through good phones, & you should pick that up, but not the same as being in the room.

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This is why I Never leave my home without a drum key.

Dennis
Even better - two! :)

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I would say that a good standard protocol for store display tuning would be medium tuning tension.
That way the drum would be producing a full round tone.
They could simply use a tune bot or a drum dial to set the drums close enough so that a good demonstration could be had by a shopper.

I was selling a kit a few years ago. I tuned the drums medium tension with both heads on the toms matching in pitch to give a full sound. I figured that when someone came to see the kit they would get a good idea of how the kit sounded with it tuned in that manor.
A buyer came and he sat behind the drums. I explained to him that the drums were tuned in the middle of their range so he could go up or down with the tuning as he liked. He hit the toms for a while and he took a key from his pocket. He then detuned one lug of the batter head on each of the toms until they sounded like crap.
I asked him why he did that. He said that he likes to tune his drums that way because he likes that sound. He bought the kit so all was good but I never understood his logic.
Your default tuning suggestion for a shop is spot on Bob. If only they'd do that. clearly, there's a world of difference between how a kit is likely to be tuned in, say, a Guitar Centre environment, compared to the likes of Steve Maxwells.
My rant is aimed more towards the "professionals" representing manufacturers in an exhibition setting.

I really don't get what your kit buyer did either, but at least he had the opportunity to hear the drums working nicely. Of course, his tuning choice is exactly that, his choice.

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I was just kidding about the tuning of your kit and liking wrinkled heads. Again proving that I should not attempt sarcasm here. They sound incredible, as always. Going to stop talking now haha.
All's cool, I did get that ;) ;) ;) Please carry on with the sarcasm!
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Firstly I think that "good enough" and the lowest common denominator ,have become the new standard on which product is made and sold.

To you my mate, this is even more upsetting,because you go the extra mile,or two,or whatever it takes, as is evident in all aspects of your personal life I think,as well as in the absolutely wonderful drums you make.

Good enough has never been a standard,and not even in your vocabulary,so seeing the lowest common denominator principle in action(or actually in non-action) is upsetting.

I've always been the same way too.My work ethic is just completey different than a lot of people I know.I guess I owe it to a German immigrant Grandfather who taught me to do any job with the A to Z approach.

Do it right,do it all and it's not done till you finish ALL the steps the right way.

Secondly.....that kit ..........that bass drum.The tone and depth are just amazing.In a blindfold test,I would bet the ranch on those being much larger drums,let alone the 12" depth of the bass drum.

Well done,kudos again mate.:)

Steve B
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:49 PM
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Good enough has never been a standard,and not even in your vocabulary,so seeing the lowest common denominator principle in action(or actually in non-action) is upsetting.
Yes, that's me all over, but I have to be careful. Letting stuff get under your skin can pull you away from looking at the bigger picture. I've got all day for players who struggle with tuning. hell, I struggle myself sometimes (especially in small dead rooms = yuk!). It's the "professionals" who should damn well know better, but just can't be bothered, that irk me something terrible. I just want to slap them, in the same way I want to slap the occasional drummer who acts out the drummer stereotype.


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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Secondly.....that kit ..........that bass drum.The tone and depth are just amazing.In a blindfold test,I would bet the ranch on those being much larger drums,let alone the 12" depth of the bass drum.

Well done,kudos again mate.:)

Steve B
Thanks Steve, & yes, that little baby punches well above it's weight. I had one very well know industry pro tech approach me. In passing, he said "I should bring every drummer here who tells me the shells don't make a difference". I was pretty pleased with that unsolicited remark.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:34 PM
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Thanks Grea :) I like the kit at that tuning, kind of nearly jazz mode ;) Some G1's, & it's happy, but it can rock low with clears on too.
First recording of the Gurus (with Drouyn snare) is now in Your Playing in my home recordings thread. Maniacal, as usual :)

My feeling is that staff get jaded. They could tune everything up nicely and then someone comes in and beats the daylights out of the kit and puts out the tuning again. Day after day after day ...
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

BTW, as an aside, does anyone like the tuning on this video?
I want that kit now. I admitedly dont like the look (I'm sort of obsessed with sparkle finishes) but that kit sounds amazing and i'll be saving up for a bit.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Yes, this also drives me crazy and I see it all the time. Kits on display, snare drums (expensive ones with wrinkles in the snare side head is OK?)
New and used, it sure doesn't help sell anything.

While I am a firm believer with taking the time to properly tune a drum set to its environment...it really doesn't take very long to take an untuned drum to a state of 'reasonably acceptable'. Sometimes there just isn't enough time, I get that.
I am meticulous as anyone when it comes to tuning and like to take my time...I like to experiment and I'm always tweaking the tuning - when rehearsing, gigging, whenever I play. Before /during sound check, between songs slightly touching up here and there. I leave them alone when they are dialled in.

To quantify this on a scale of 1 to 10 :
A new , wrinkled head, untuned drum on display: 1
Heads tightened up - wrinkles out, but not tuned :3
5 minutes spent tuning (the whole set) by someone who knows what they are doing: 7-8
1-2 hours spent by someone who knows what they are doing : 9-10

As with almost anything, the last 10-20% requires the most effort.
But I think that Andy would agree, even a minimal effort in this regard should be the absolute minimum and is better than nothing. 5 minutes. It's a 'pit crew' mentality to getting it done but it is possible.

This reminds me , how many of you have seen the Craigslist ads that say "drums have been professionally tuned" ? And they mean six months ago, in a different room and before the heads looked like the surface of the moon.
Sigh. It ain't rocket science ...or is it?

Neal
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Guru is most definitely raising the bar high with drum building. If these concepts ever catch fire with the public at large, every other drum company would likely have to yield to customer "trends", eventually. It's only appropriate that you would feel a bit disgusted by your peers. Your standards are so far above everyone else's. Right down to (duh) making sure the drums are tuned well for the conditions. ESPECIALLY at a drum show, epic duh.

It's so good to know that one drum company exists that is intelligent enough, and whose standards are so high, as to lead the pack to further the evolution of the construction of acoustic drums. I can't say that about any other existing company. Status quo all the way baby, that's everyone else's motto. To heck with any innovation.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

I love the sound of that kit, Andy.

I can't imagine why anyone would put a set of drums out for demo purposes and not tune them. I don't get around to many trade shows or things like that, so I didn't realize this was such a common problem. It seems really stupid to me to ignore such an important thing.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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I want that kit now. I admitedly dont like the look (I'm sort of obsessed with sparkle finishes) but that kit sounds amazing and i'll be saving up for a bit.
Thank you, but sparkle isn't an option I'm afraid. We offer the same kit without wooden hoops though. That will take away some of the woody look, & also some of the woody sound. It'll brighten it up too, & sharpen attack.

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Originally Posted by evilg99 View Post

But I think that Andy would agree, even a minimal effort in this regard should be the absolute minimum and is better than nothing. 5 minutes. It's a 'pit crew' mentality to getting it done but it is possible.
Neal
Entirely possible Neal. OK, time can be tight when setting up exhibitions. It's a lot of work, but you can always find time to get the tuning at least somewhere close. If they tuned the kits before they even got to the exhibition, then came in early each show day to tweak them, that would be a much better situation than is currently the case.

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Status quo all the way baby, that's everyone else's motto.
not everyone Larry, but many, & it's typically the big companies and/or their distributors/reps that are commonly the worst offenders. At LDS last year, there were three bigger companies who's drums sounded disgracefully bad - & I mean cardboard box bad. High range stuff too. They were majoring on the latest finish options. In the refreshment area, I even heard two drummers discussing one of the kits mentioned (a nice glossy veneer). One said to the other that he didn't think it sounded that great, the other responded "I don't care, They sound great on (insert brand's) videos, & they look cool. It's all in the mic's anyhow".

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I love the sound of that kit, Andy.

I can't imagine why anyone would put a set of drums out for demo purposes and not tune them. I don't get around to many trade shows or things like that, so I didn't realize this was such a common problem. It seems really stupid to me to ignore such an important thing.
Thanks :) & yes, nor can I. I can only assume they've lost their passion & have corporate expenses to burn. At another show last year, I played a kit on a very big stand (large manufacturer). I remarked to the rep that it sounded like crap. He knew I was an exhibitor. I said "it just needs a tune up". He replied "nobody cares. It's got the right brand, a great finish, & it's the right price". That made me pretty sad.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:22 AM
5678...procrastinate 5678...procrastinate is offline
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

It occurs to me that everything they don't do,
That you do do,
Is plus one to you/ Guru.

I think you're on a winner !

The worse they sound, the better you do.

Quid pro quo. Or something like that.
Oh no, hang on.............
Vive le difference ! Yeah, that's that ticket.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
At another show last year, I played a kit on a very big stand (large manufacturer). I remarked to the rep that it sounded like crap. He knew I was an exhibitor. I said "it just needs a tune up". He replied "nobody cares. It's got the right brand, a great finish, & it's the right price". That made me pretty sad.


Ewww. Honestly, remarks like this deflate my faith in people. Not all people don't care. Even if 10% of the people cared, that's enough. I would have loved to tell him exactly, in great detail, how pathetic that attitude is. Loser.

Long live high standards. Long live Guru.

I so wish I could work for your company Andy. YOU restore my faith in people. Please don't ever lose what you have right now.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Best kit I ever played was at London Drum Show. Was Guru stand and the bloke honored me by letting me play on the free floating kit.... My dream kit and always will be but I will never be able to afford that.... Tuned perfect, looked amazing. Not only that but the owner complimented my playing and actually gave me a nice chat. Went out of his way actually, incredible. If only I could afford a guru kit, any kit.... Sucks having around 600 as a limit for next kit...
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Originally Posted by 5678...procrastinate View Post
The worse they sound, the better you do.
To an extent, yes, but I'd much prefer all drums at exhibitions to be well tuned. That way, not only can players make an informed 1 - 1 comparison, but it presents a much more stimulating & worthwhile atmosphere for visitors.

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Not all people don't care.
Thankfully larry, this is true. For every lazy b*^%d in the business, there's some real passionate people too. I just wish some of that passion would rub off on the others. By means of inspiration preferably, but if not, then by means of shame.

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Best kit I ever played was at London Drum Show. Was Guru stand and the bloke honored me by letting me play on the free floating kit.... My dream kit and always will be but I will never be able to afford that.... Tuned perfect, looked amazing. Not only that but the owner complimented my playing and actually gave me a nice chat. Went out of his way actually, incredible. If only I could afford a guru kit, any kit.... Sucks having around 600 as a limit for next kit...
This is great to hear :) I'm fairly certain that was me, but please excuse me if I don't remember specifically. Alternatively, it might have been Dean. I'm 20 years older than Dean.

Either way, it tells me something about you. You must have approached us in a way that gave us the confidence to let you play that precious kit, actually, my kit. We restricted playing on that kit for good reason. As you're aware, there's a lot of visitors who just want to thrash any kit they can find. It doesn't matter what it sounds like, because they mostly want to "impress" their friends.

As an aside, you've played probably one of the rarest kits on the planet in modern times. It is the very genesis of the Origin series drums, & crafted from 300 year old mahogany. There will only ever be one prototype kit, despite numerous requests to build more. If we ever become successful enough to have a Guru museum, that will take pride of place. Thank you so much for your kind words. It makes our struggles that bit easier to work through :)
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  #31  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:02 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

One of my fav pics is me on that set :) I think it was the fact I wasn't in a metal band shirt and talked to you first. I knew your works and couldn't get enough of it. I distinctly remember you saying you wanted me at 1:30 to play some jazz on it as we were in quiet down time (which really didn't work). I can't say I have ever looked so scared!
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  #32  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

Hey Andy,

I listened with some good headphones and that kit sounds very good. Nice deep bass (especially considering how shallow it is) and great sounding toms. And it looks fabulous.

BTW: next time tell the other drummers to stop playing while a Guru kit is being recorded ;-).

About badly tuned drums: I remember when I was shopping for my first acoustic kit I visited several shops and almost started thinking drums were supposed to sound that bad without any other instruments. Until I finally heard a properly tuned drumkit and it sounded so much better, even though it wasn't a high end kit.

Not to offend anyone but the employees I met in the shops weren't exactly very busy so I would say they would have some time to tune every drumkit once in a while. I would make them if it was my store, that should bump up sales a lot. An untuned or badly tuned drumkit sounds like crap. How are you ever gonna sell it?
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  #33  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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Hey Andy,

I listened with some good headphones and that kit sounds very good. Nice deep bass (especially considering how shallow it is) and great sounding toms. And it looks fabulous.

BTW: next time tell the other drummers to stop playing while a Guru kit is being recorded ;-).

About badly tuned drums: I remember when I was shopping for my first acoustic kit I visited several shops and almost started thinking drums were supposed to sound that bad without any other instruments. Until I finally heard a properly tuned drumkit and it sounded so much better, even though it wasn't a high end kit.

Not to offend anyone but the employees I met in the shops weren't exactly very busy so I would say they would have some time to tune every drumkit once in a while. I would make them if it was my store, that should bump up sales a lot. An untuned or badly tuned drumkit sounds like crap. How are you ever gonna sell it?

If you want bad mate, don't go to Tonika, Groningen. Not only was no snare or kit tuned (they had a tama metalworks with o rings and just said its an automatic tuning system, and had a dennis chambers snare that sounded like turd.... And to add insult to injury actually told me not to buy the fibreskyn heads I was buying because "they are for old people and sound crap"
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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If you want bad mate, don't go to Tonika, Groningen. Not only was no snare or kit tuned (they had a tama metalworks with o rings and just said its an automatic tuning system, and had a dennis chambers snare that sounded like turd.... And to add insult to injury actually told me not to buy the fibreskyn heads I was buying because "they are for old people and sound crap"
OK, thanks. Any thoughts about Adams in Ittervoort?
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  #35  
Old 05-13-2013, 05:39 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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OK, thanks. Any thoughts about Adams in Ittervoort?
Can't say I have been there, but Rock Palace and Feedback Muziek Rotterdam are both really good though!
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  #36  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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One of my fav pics is me on that set :)
Ah yes, now I remember you, & you did play well :) I'm glad we left a good impression of how a customer should be treated. TBH, it's difficult to get it right every time at a very busy exhibition. As you know, we don't just talk to people we believe are going to buy something. We're happy to talk with anyone who shows some genuine interest.

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Originally Posted by eric_B View Post
Hey Andy,

I listened with some good headphones and that kit sounds very good. Nice deep bass (especially considering how shallow it is) and great sounding toms. And it looks fabulous.

BTW: next time tell the other drummers to stop playing while a Guru kit is being recorded ;-).

An untuned or badly tuned drumkit sounds like crap. How are you ever gonna sell it?
Thank you, & yes, the others should shut TFU ;) ;) ;)

Your last point really is the bottom line here. I'm specifically pissed about tuning standards within major company reps at shows, but that malaise extends to stores too. We hear about failing stores all the time. That's a huge shame, & a loss for us all, but how many of those would have benefitted if they'd just bothered to tune up their drums? I suppose we'll never know.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

You are too kind sir, I only did take 5, it's a standard. But yes, you, Natal and the drum tuna were the two stands that left the most lasting impression at that show. The rest didn't care. The sound attak store just ended up annoying people.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

The kit sounds incredible- helped even more by the very tasty playing I guess.

I think you should stop feeling down about this Andy and embrace it. Lets face it, if people buy drums with their ears, you'll never be short of a sale! World domination here you come!
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Tuning on display kits - mini rant - video

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You are too kind sir, I only did take 5, it's a standard.
Yes, but I love Take 5!!!!!

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The kit sounds incredible- helped even more by the very tasty playing I guess.
Thanks Ian, & yes, Matt is a superb player, & general all round very cool Guru artist :) Matt will be featuring on our next instalment of "The Guru Sessions" natural recordings. He'll be playing our new In-Tense range kit. Dave McKeague will be returning to showcase the new snare range too. Good stuff - I love working with these guys :)
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