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  #1  
Old 05-05-2013, 10:25 AM
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Default Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

I've never heard of Meshuggah before but someone on here was talking about learning some drum stuff from their tracks so I hunted them down on Youtube.

After a while I came across this cover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Fwx5vXRXk5U

and it just makes my attempts to learn seem pretty trivial.

I *know* learning to play is a slow process with lots of practice, but for goodness sakes (that phrase was edited for on-line family friendliness) how the hell do I think I could ever even approach that?

Maybe I should go back to playing something easy like Beethoven sonatas on the kazoo? :(
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

99% of the forum members seem trivial if you compare them to certain drummers.
But what's the point doing so? Compared to some drummers I shouldn't have ever even started drumming. But I did - and it's fun regardless of technical level.

Maybe there's things that you can do so much better than Troy Wright. Maybe he would be extremely envious of your skills in some other fields outside drumming but he doesn't know what you're good at and you don't know what he sucks at. IMO the more you invest in certain areas (music, sports, private life, education, whatever) the less time/energy/efforts you have for all the other activities and life chores. So in the end it all balances out.

About 2 years ago I found an electric guitarist who set a new world record, playing the Flight of the Humblebee @ 380 bpm (16th - each note picked)!! I could have imagined playing that piece at maybe 250 bpm or slightly more, but that's super fast already. And 380 was waaaay faster than I ever imagined what the human body could do even if you practiced like a madman for your whole life. Now just a few days ago I discovered another guy that did... 600!! It's unbelievable. I can't believe it. My eyes saw it, my brain ignored it. It just can't be! So how trivial are 99.9999% of this planet's guitarist playing polulation compared to this player?

Here's the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cGTsX3O-2E

Did this impact my music activities? No. Yes, there's some crazy dudes out there. So what? ;-)
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Your drumming could never be trivial because there's no one else in the world that can play drums like you. Your sound, your touch and your expression are totally unique. The rest is just practice, a lot of it, now you have to realize that it takes TIME, but believe me, if you put in the hours, you will get results.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Rather than get depressed that you can't play their stuff, enjoy and study their music. They're the most innovative band of recent times in my opinion and so you should be excited that they've pioneered a genre and opened up a world of things for you to learn. That was my reaction some 10 years ago and I still feel the same.

Listen in and take what you want from it - no need to get all obsessed about learning the parts note for note.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

So if you see someone who's better at particular activity the best thing is to just quit because you'll never be as good as them? Didn't think so (but thanks for posting the link- you've made me depressed as well)!
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

I'm just not seeing what is causing the soul searching. It's not like you were a fan of this band, and the guy is blowing you out of the water at your own game. What I see is that somebody made a video of himself playing somebody else's drum parts along with a record, and did a pretty good job of it. I'm not knocking him, but on a scale of musical accomplishment, this falls a couple of notches below, say, learning a Musser etude on the marimba. It's not easy, but it doesn't take any special talent beyond the ability to practice a lot, and hundreds of non-genius college students do it every year.

You can literally do exactly what this guy does, if you want to.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.
That's really interesting. My 'speciality' (as such as it is) has always revolved around baroque music which is very structurally 'straight' with respect to the bar lines and the rhythm.

This 'pulling and pushing' of the rhythm is amazing to listen to....
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Comparing yourself to others....should be avoided. There's no point in it. Learning what others have done, that's different. But don't down yourself because you can't do what another does. Find out what you do best and focus there. Unless what you do best is comparing yourself to others, then don't focus there. Nothing good can come out of that. Be the best YOU that you can.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
this falls a couple of notches below, say, learning a Musser etude on the marimba. It's not easy, but it doesn't take any special talent beyond the ability to practice a lot, and hundreds of non-genius college students do it every year.
Troy is not simply a cover-er. IMO he elevates the material- comparing the original version of CAFO to his cover of it, for example, shows how ridiculously groovy he is (once again, my opinion).

That said, don't be discouraged by this. Be inspired by it. Mountain climbers don't look at big mountains and say "woah, that's too tall". They say "I'm going to climb up there".
Climb up there.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Why not strive to improve yourself and be a better player. No matter a drummer's skill level, there's always something new or more difficult to learn.

If you want to play some Meshuggah, try the song Demiurge (also on Koloss). The first 2/3 aren't too hard and you feel like a god playing it. Have fun!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by CreeplyTuna View Post
If you want to play some Meshuggah, try the song Demiurge (also on Koloss). The first 2/3 aren't too hard and you feel like a god playing it. Have fun!
Behind The Sun also has a pretty simple opening. Of course, these are stepping stones. Maybe one day you can play The Last Vigil, which Tomas really overplayed the heck out of- I have no idea how that came out of the studio!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
Behind The Sun also has a pretty simple opening. Of course, these are stepping stones. Maybe one day you can play The Last Vigil, which Tomas really overplayed the heck out of- I have no idea how that came out of the studio!
That one took me years to learn!
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  #14  
Old 05-06-2013, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Well, unless your plan is to play in a Meshuggah cover band, does it matter?

At one point in life, I wanted to be Mr Super Versatile with amazing chops. Then at 22, reality set in that no one was ever going to mention me in the same sentence as Bozzio or any other drum god.

But I thought to myself, you know what? It's OK. I can still be in bands. I can still play music that can be heard on the radio. Few bands in this world really want a drummer who can play very complex material.

And so I went out and did just that. Still joined bands, still gigged, played on albums, and have even heard myself on the radio a few times.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by lowdowner View Post
That's really interesting. My 'speciality' (as such as it is) has always revolved around baroque music which is very structurally 'straight' with respect to the bar lines and the rhythm.

This 'pulling and pushing' of the rhythm is amazing to listen to....
This is why you feel so overwhelmed; you're seriously listening to syncopated rhythms and over-the-bar-line phrasing for what may be the first time in your life! It's not surprising you're feeling so defeated, since it's more or less another musical universe to you at this point.

So start playing music and exercises that contain rhythmic syncopation, in order to acclimate your mind and limbs. Most of us start by playing covers with our friends, school band programs, and lessons on other instruments, in addition to proper drumset training. If most of your experience involves playing baroque music (by the way, how did THAT happen???), then playing almost any rock music from the last 50 years will be informative!

Listen to and learn from heavy and influential bands from the last few decades (Metallica, Pantera, Slayer, etc.), where the music was not quite so complicated or technically driven.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by brentcn View Post
This is why you feel so overwhelmed; you're seriously listening to syncopated rhythms and over-the-bar-line phrasing for what may be the first time in your life! It's not surprising you're feeling so defeated, since it's more or less another musical universe to you at this point.
And you're not alone - speaking as another baroque lover (strictly a listener though, not a player owing to a total absence of talent).

I enjoyed the link very much, it's a genre I have hardly encountered, but the drumming is SO exciting!
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
And you're not alone - speaking as another baroque lover (strictly a listener though, not a player owing to a total absence of talent).

I enjoyed the link very much, it's a genre I have hardly encountered, but the drumming is SO exciting!
Exactly - really mind blowing rythm (and drumming) :)
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Gotta love Haake, the drummer for Meshuggah.

Read an interview with him where he said a couple of surprising things: first, the drum parts for Obzen album were all programmed on a computer by the giutarist and then he learned them from the programmed version. Second, it took him about 6 months to get the drum part down for Bleed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc.

That stuff ain't easy, though I think it is possible for anyone with enough thought and practice.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Well, unless your plan is to play in a Meshuggah cover band, does it matter?

At one point in life, I wanted to be Mr Super Versatile with amazing chops. Then at 22, reality set in that no one was ever going to mention me in the same sentence as Bozzio or any other drum god.

But I thought to myself, you know what? It's OK. I can still be in bands. I can still play music that can be heard on the radio. Few bands in this world really want a drummer who can play very complex material.

And so I went out and did just that. Still joined bands, still gigged, played on albums, and have even heard myself on the radio a few times.
I tend to agree with DED

I look at it like this, if Meshuggah ever ring me up and ask me to be their drummer (they won't) I might have a go at learning the drum parts. If it turns out I can't play them because they are way above my ability (which they are) I will just tell the band to ask someone else. But until that day comes (which is never) I can't see the point in stressing about not being able to play a particular drum part.

That guy in the video clip has worked really hard to be able to do that, and he does it really well, but what is the point? When will he ever play that again? Work really hard at doing something new, by that I mean somethng that is original, finding your own style, or at the very least something you can use. Learn and understand the style for sure but spend months practicing a song that you will never play with a band? I'm not sure I get that. That's not to say that I see no point in learning new stuff, just that I see little point in learning whole songs that I am unlikely to ever use.

I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post
I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
Whether it's popular or not, it's realistic.

Towards the OP: I love sitting in my garage and trying to figure out something polyrhythmic and complex, but the weirdest time signature I usually play in any band here in town is usually 6/8. Not to say that there's not a place or a market for complex stylings, but to play them just to play them, and then get bummed because you're not able to play them *yet* is not productive.

If there's one thing life has continually taught me, it's that you can never be the best at anything; you can only be the very best that you can be at something. And that takes work, patience, practice, and perseverance. Comparing yourself to Troy Wright, or any drummer for that matter, is not going to do anything for you. He's got mad chops at that Meshuggah stuff, but at least in my local market, he would starve for his art, because around here it's got to be danceable to make money.

Goes back to the whole chops vs. groove thing, the whole genre discussion too. We could look at this can of worms all day. Bottom line: Should you quit because this guy is "better" than you? No. Be the best you that you can be. And that should be plenty for anyone.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.
this is dead on

if you learn how to hear it .... learning to play it is a much easier process

if learning it is indeed what you want to do

learning a few of his licks may add something to your vocabulary if you play that type of music

otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about it and just do you
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by Anthony Amodeo View Post
this is dead on

if you learn how to hear it .... learning to play it is a much easier process

if learning it is indeed what you want to do

learning a few of his licks may add something to your vocabulary if you play that type of music

otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about it and just do you
That is lovely.

(That's all I wanted to say, but I fell foul of the 20 character thang.)
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post
Learn and understand the style for sure but spend months practicing a song that you will never play with a band? I'm not sure I get that. That's not to say that I see no point in learning new stuff, just that I see little point in learning whole songs that I am unlikely to ever use.

I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
Perhaps he simply wants to do these because they are fun. I do my covers because they're fun, and because I learn skills from playing them that I can apply to other situations.

Performance in a studio is no less valid than performance in a live context.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post

I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
Just to clarify, it's not to say I stopped learning, or stopped setting drumming goals to accomplish. I still took lessons, I still practiced things I did not know.

Just the more you learn about drumming, the more you learn just how much there is to know. And eventually, you realize, no one knows it all. You can drive yourself crazy worrying about it, it just move on to what yo can do next.

In retrospect, yes, there are things I wish I had pushed myself to learn better.
But at the same time, I've learned a lot of things that I've since forgotten because they just never came up in a musical situation I found myself in.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

If you want to feel trivial you can wind the clock back 80 years and watch clips of Papa Jo Jones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ziQkWyIwo4

Let me know when you get there :)
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post
I tend to agree with DED

I look at it like this, if Meshuggah ever ring me up and ask me to be their drummer (they won't) I might have a go at learning the drum parts. If it turns out I can't play them because they are way above my ability (which they are) I will just tell the band to ask someone else. But until that day comes (which is never) I can't see the point in stressing about not being able to play a particular drum part.

That guy in the video clip has worked really hard to be able to do that, and he does it really well, but what is the point? When will he ever play that again? Work really hard at doing something new, by that I mean somethng that is original, finding your own style, or at the very least something you can use. Learn and understand the style for sure but spend months practicing a song that you will never play with a band? I'm not sure I get that. That's not to say that I see no point in learning new stuff, just that I see little point in learning whole songs that I am unlikely to ever use.

I'm guessing that mine is not a popular point of view
For the guy in that video (Troy Wright), his covers weren't a futile exercise.

He got to audition for Animals as Leaders. He had visa problems so didn't get the gig. I've seen him and AALs current drummer Matt Garska play the same songs and I think Troy actually has the better groove.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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He got to audition for Animals as Leaders. He had visa problems so didn't get the gig. I've seen him and AALs current drummer Matt Garska play the same songs and I think Troy actually has the better groove.
He also was able to get an endorsement deal with Sabian, though his lesson-teaching was probably also a part of it. The videos I've seen of Garstka make him out to be a chronic overplayer, which i'm not a fan of.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:26 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

The AAL drum parts sound as though they're written by a guitarist - a bit goofy at times and some silly big fills. It's possibly Matt is overplaying because that's what Tony wants him to do. I have seen them live and I thought Matt was great, very bold.

It's easy to criticize Troy Wright for riding on Haake's coat tails but I'm sure playing and learning all of those parts would help him find his own style if he didn't already have one. I would like to do what Troy Wright does but I don't really have the drive (and maybe not enough time), there's other things that come first.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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The AAL drum parts sound as though they're written by a guitarist - a bit goofy at times and some silly big fills. It's possibly Matt is overplaying because that's what Tony wants him to do. I have seen them live and I thought Matt was great, very bold.
Most of the videos I see of him are like this. That intro makes me really question Matt's playing, though the rest of the vid isn't as bad as I remember. Still... 7 piece kit?
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
Perhaps he simply wants to do these because they are fun. I do my covers because they're fun, and because I learn skills from playing them that I can apply to other situations.

Performance in a studio is no less valid than performance in a live context.
Of course, but I think it is a shame if feeling that it is required/needed to be able to cover complicated songs puts the OP off. There is never going to come a time when as a drummer the OP will be asked to cover that song, unless of course,that is where Lowdowner wants to go.

Quote:
how the hell do I think I could ever even approach that?
You don't have to is the point I am trying to make

But you are right, doing something for fun is as valid, if not more, than most reasons.

And it is great that the drummer in the video clip has got somewhere from doing that cover, it is good to know that people who work hard get rewards, there are plenty of others however who work equally hard and don't get as far. There are an awful lot of drum covers out there
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
It seems impossible because your ears aren't conditioned to hearing the odd phrasing over the bar line. It's not as hard as it seems once you hear the phrases and can feel them flow over the 4/4.
Is reading music a necessity for music this tricky? Troy Wright sightreads his transcriptions as he plays. I find it quite difficult to follow where the backbeat will land in the AAL songs.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Thing is - and I'm not ashamed to admit this - I really like what Meshuggah do. Although on first listen it sounds ridiculously over-the-top and unnecessary Haake always seems to be saying something interesting on the drums rhythmically.

I watch people covering Meshuggah on the drums and the player in the original post really has something going on. The technical complexity isn't what appeals, it's that the player actually uses different voicings effectively and makes the music sound communicative. I think that's where most of the sound-alikes fall down.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

If you find Meshuggah intimidating then Sol Niger Within will give you nightmares... :)
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  #34  
Old 05-07-2013, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Personally, I find that kind of drumming to be pointless. Just over-practiced rudiments and bravado - much like most metal. There's no denying the skill involved in achieving that kinda level of being an overpaid drum machine.

Personally, I find this more impressive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyEG7_z931s

..steady, solid, relaxed and tasteful - and at least it has some feeling and nature to it rather than someone concentrating so hard they can't enjoy the music they're making. Ive watched videos of Meshuggah and aside from the ridiculous vogue-ing of the guitarists with their legs 4 feet apart and their heads between their knees, the drummer looks half bored/half annoyed

Don't sweat it, you have nothing to feel inferior to
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  #35  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Your drumming probably is "trivial". So what? If you and others like the way it sounds, do it. If you suck, practice till you don't. Play music or don't. Worrying about other drummers ability does nothing for yours.
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  #36  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySomersett View Post
Personally, I find that kind of drumming to be pointless. Just over-practiced rudiments and bravado - much like most metal. There's no denying the skill involved in achieving that kinda level of being an overpaid drum machine.

Don't sweat it, you have nothing to feel inferior to
Never mind that it is its own genre, and that it is unnecessary to insult a musician just because you don't like the genre.
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  #37  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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JohnnySomersett JohnnySomersett is offline
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

It is not it's own genre. I refuse to pay lip service to the stupid micro-genres people in metal circles deem necessary to somehow validate themselves. It's metal, that's it.

May I please note that I do indeed like plenty of metal music, but find all that bravado and posing to be highly ridiculous

also, I reserve the right to insult whomever I choose without apology. The guys in Meshuggah come across as a bunch of clowns.
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  #38  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:34 PM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

You don't reserve the right to insult people that you've never met. It's a breach of the forum rules and has nothing to do with the music.

It's called the 'ad hominem' and is a tool used by those with poor debating skills.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:38 PM
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JohnnySomersett JohnnySomersett is offline
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Fine. It was merely an observation and personal opinion. Assuming personal opinion is an acceptable thing to express?

I shall bow out of this one. As I have no need to waste time arguing online.

OP, forget Meshuggah and their soulless dirge... Play content in the knowledge that if you even use an iota of nuance and soul in your playing....you're already better.
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  #40  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:42 PM
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BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
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Default Re: Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

Personal opinions are fine. Calling people a 'bunch of clowns' because you don't like their music is not only out of line, it's also got nothing to do with your argument about the music. Hence why it's a logical fallacy.

I'm glad you're bowing out. It appears you have nothing useful or constructive to say.
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