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  #121  
Old 08-14-2013, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
We then added modern Ludwig hardware that allowed Memory Locks to be used for the floor tom legs
I'm gonna look into those for my 3 ply 26x14. I assume they have the same hole pattern as the old Ludwig tom/floor tom leg/fold out spur mount.
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  #122  
Old 08-14-2013, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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I'm gonna look into those for my 3 ply 26x14. I assume they have the same hole pattern as the old Ludwig tom/floor tom leg/fold out spur mount.
As far as I know the ludwig tom brackets are all the same hole pattern. The mem lock spur mounts should fit your kit. The New Atlas Tom Mount Lugs adjust to fit every Ludwig lug pattern, as well as almost all others. They even give you thicker gaskets for bass drum lug replacement. They come with plastic sleeve inserts to accommodate all tom L rod sizes from 9.5mm to 12.7mm.

Thanks to all who are sharing my joy with this kit and, Yes Larry, quantum physics prevail;, There is balance in the universe.
There is MOJO in these drums. I can't stop playing them. I have them tuned much tighter at the moment than I did in the samples that I posted. The more I experiment, the more I like them. :)
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  #123  
Old 08-14-2013, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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As far as I know the ludwig tom brackets are all the same hole pattern.
Cool. That shell's drilled for the fold outs .... so looks like pappa's gonna be buyin' baby some new boots.
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  #124  
Old 08-14-2013, 04:32 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

The improvements look great Bob! It's nice to see you enjoying the mojo ;)

Viva la Ludwig!

Edit: if you really want to compliment these drums, I'd replace all your cymbals with Zildjian Pitch Blacks. Then you'll be super musical!

;)

Last edited by Bo Eder; 08-14-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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  #125  
Old 08-14-2013, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

But what kind of hi hats are on this kit?
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  #126  
Old 08-14-2013, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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But what kind of hi hats are on this kit?
When Pitch Blacks aren't available, as Bo suggested :)
I use Istanbul Agop 14" Sultans or 13 1/4" Zildjian K Custom Hybrid. Those are the hats that I currently own.
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  #127  
Old 08-17-2013, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Right, like the Yamaha Yess mounts...they support the shell from right near the bearing edge. They work fine IMO. But supporting a drum shell solely from a mount that's drilled dead center of the shell, like the old Luds....that's the worst possible place to support it from.
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Default Re: drum nodal points
I don't know that there is such a thing as a drums nodal point. It's new to me. I have no idea what it could be. I don't think it could be that important if it was never discussed here prior to today. I googled it and there are no real articles about it, just a mention here, and one other mention on another forum. I smell misinformation."

Leedy drums were spreading "misinformation" regarding nodal points going back to their Leedy Drum Topics flyers back in the 1920's-30's. Noble & Cooley with the help of Bob Gatzen brought it back to life in the early 1990's as did Yamaha in the 2000's, although I don't know that they used the term nodal points. Now Ludwig with their Atlas Isolation Mount instead of a big honkin' block of metal choking the drum in the middle of the shell. Oh well everything old is new again.
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  #128  
Old 08-17-2013, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I moved the tom mounts from the center of the shell to the top on my vintage Gretsch kit when I owned it.
Moving the mounts made a big difference. I owned that kit for over 30 years so I was very familiar with its sound.

In the case of this old Ludwig kit; When I added the new Atlas mounts to the 12 & 13 inch toms, I could hear a big difference.
I was able to tune tight and still get a lot of sustain

I find that it is most noticeable on thin shell drums with round edges.

I shell mounted the mount on my 2012 Club Date SE 13" tom near the top of the shell. (I hated the Vibraband! that came with the kit)
The shell mounted old style Ludwig mount works great on this 6 ply drum.

I also shell mounted the Mapex mount on the 12" tom of my Mapex Saturn Manhattan jazz kit near the top of the shell.

As far as I am concerned, I can hear a difference and I have proved it to myself several times over the past 40 years.

These new Atlas mounts are a dream come true for me because I never liked band type suspension mounts.
Also, they will fit most drums without drilling any holes and devaluing the drums. If you ever sell the drums simply put the stock lugs back on them and save the Atlas mounts for your next kit.
These new Atlas mounts are a true isolation mount. Before I installed them on this kit, I had the stock mount at first, and then a Vibraband on the 13" tom. The tom sounds exactly the same after switching from the Vibraband to the new Atlas mount.
Bravo Ludwig!

We could argue about the nodal points of drums with science forever, but I know that my ears don't lie to me.
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  #129  
Old 08-17-2013, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Default Re: drum nodal points
I don't know that there is such a thing as a drums nodal point. It's new to me. I have no idea what it could be. I don't think it could be that important if it was never discussed here prior to today. I googled it and there are no real articles about it, just a mention here, and one other mention on another forum. I smell misinformation."

Leedy drums were spreading "misinformation" regarding nodal points going back to their Leedy Drum Topics flyers back in the 1920's-30's. Noble & Cooley with the help of Bob Gatzen brought it back to life in the early 1990's as did Yamaha in the 2000's, although I don't know that they used the term nodal points. Now Ludwig with their Atlas Isolation Mount instead of a big honkin' block of metal choking the drum in the middle of the shell. Oh well everything old is new again.
I'm not sure what your stance is. Did I write the paragraph where it says I smell misinformation? Or is that from your brain? I stand by what I said about having a mount in the middle of a tom shell is the worst possible place to mount it from.

Bob, I'm confused. You said you installed some mounts near the top of the shell. Now I'm pretty sure you wouldn't drill new holes. So I'm confused as to how there is more than one place to install the mounts.
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  #130  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'm not sure what your stance is. Did I write the paragraph where it says I smell misinformation? Or is that from your brain? I stand by what I said about having a mount in the middle of a tom shell is the worst possible place to mount it from.

Bob, I'm confused. You said you installed some mounts near the top of the shell. Now I'm pretty sure you wouldn't drill new holes. So I'm confused as to how there is more than one place to install the mounts.
Larry, Sorry for the confusion. I couldn't figure out how to quote from a different thread post, you wrote about misinformation in this thread http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...t=nodal+points. I guess I needed an irony smiley after my remarks. I am in full agreement with you in regards to mount placement.

I believe Bob said he had used the new Ludwig Atlas Isolation Mounts so no holes had to be drilled.
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Old 08-17-2013, 11:48 PM
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  #131  
Old 08-17-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Larry; I was talking about my early 70's Gretsch kit. I installed Rogers mounts near the top of the tom shells on that kit.
On my Club Date SE kit I drilled the tom and I hard mounted the Ludwig mount near the top of the shell. I ditched the Vibraband.
On the vintage Ludwig kit, I went from the stock mount to the Vibraband, and then to the Atlas isolation lug mount.
On my Saturn jazz kit, I didn't like the Mapex isolation mount on the high tom so I drilled the drum and I mounted the Mapex mount directly to the shell at the top of course.
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  #132  
Old 08-18-2013, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

OK so you did have to drill some of them. I was wondering how you did that because I assumed you didn't drill.
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  #133  
Old 08-18-2013, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

What is puzzling to me is that the drum makers back in the day insisted on placing the mount on center of the high tom when you can plainly hear that it substantially impedes the sound.
They crafted these wonderful full sounding drums and they choked them?
I am sure that they knew this. I figured it out when I was a teen in the 70's with my Slingerland and Gretsch kits.

The 13" 68 Ludwig tom had the most noticeable change in sound that I have ever heard when I hung it from the factory mount. I had to tune it real loose to get sustain. If I tuned at medium tension or higher the drum just thumped with no sing at all. It would also develop a weird overtone that was very displeasing. I can tune that drum to be anything that I want it to be now with the new Atlas mount. I currently have the heads on the 12" and 13" toms set at about 77 to 78 on the drum dial. Dial readings are for reference, I tune by ear.

The first thing that one learns when playing 3 ply drums with re-rings and round over edges is the role of the shell. Especially when one compares them to 6 ply shells with 45 degree edges.
Apples and Oranges for sure.
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  #134  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Here are some new editions to the kit, I added a 1966 14x14 floor tom and a Tama double pedal with, single row chains, and Powerglide Cams.
My God; I can't get enough of this kit!
I have played DW kits that cost over $6000 that don't sound and play half as good as this kit does.
I am in awe!!!
My hands and feet are sore from playin these drums and cymbals. I am addicted to this kit.
The duck and I are in drummer bliss right now.
The tone of the 14" floor tom just settles right into the mix so well.

~The Ludwig magic continues to happen :)~
Whenever I play these drums, I feel like I am in control, and not the limitations of the kit. If I dream it, I can play it!

There is such a thing as Mojo! I feel it when I sit behind these drums. I thought that it was a myth, but Mojo does exist.
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  #135  
Old 08-24-2013, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I'm lovin your kit Bob. I've been playing my WMP Luds exclusively too with my newly reborn Black Beauty. I can't get enough either. You are tempting me to get a 14 floor tom too. I'll take a pass on the double pedal though. I gotta say, your kit looks great. I hear you on the mojo. I'm feeling it too. Long live vintage Luds.
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  #136  
Old 08-24-2013, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I think all of us vintage Ludwig players should get together for a barbecue ;) We'll meet up at Bob's place.
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  #137  
Old 08-24-2013, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

That would be an interesting BBQ for sure.

About a year ago I bought a Roland V-Drum Lite kit for practice.
It has built in pedals and one of the preprogramed kits is a double bass setup.
I began playing the electronic doubles kit for exercise because my Dr told me to do cardio workouts three times a week.
It worked, my blood pressure dropped and my blood sugar became normal. You get a good workout from playing fast dubs.

I liked playing the doubles and I have begun to get good with them so I decided to get some real pedals for my studio kit.
Playing doubles has improved my playing of other styles of music even when I am not using the doubles.
I can now do things with the hats and a single bass that I couldn't do well before.

The 60's vintage 14" floor toms are rare and they are not cheap when you do find one that is in good shape.
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  #138  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

That thing just keeps growing! I love it. Beautiful.
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  #139  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
What is puzzling to me is that the drum makers back in the day insisted on placing the mount on center of the high tom when you can plainly hear that it substantially impedes the sound.
They crafted these wonderful full sounding drums and they choked them?
I am sure that they knew this. I figured it out when I was a teen in the 70's with my Slingerland and Gretsch kits.

The 13" 68 Ludwig tom had the most noticeable change in sound that I have ever heard when I hung it from the factory mount. I had to tune it real loose to get sustain. If I tuned at medium tension or higher the drum just thumped with no sing at all. It would also develop a weird overtone that was very displeasing. I can tune that drum to be anything that I want it to be now with the new Atlas mount. I currently have the heads on the 12" and 13" toms set at about 77 to 78 on the drum dial. Dial readings are for reference, I tune by ear.

The first thing that one learns when playing 3 ply drums with re-rings and round over edges is the role of the shell. Especially when one compares them to 6 ply shells with 45 degree edges.
Apples and Oranges for sure.
Bob,I asked John Aldridge why they did that also,and he said it was because of symmetry.The same reason the first "twin tom" kits's Like Ludwig Hollywood ,used two 8x12's instead of a 12/13 as later kits did.

They wanted to make good sounding drums,but also realized ,looks sold their products also.

So,that 14x14 super classic floor tom.....did it cost you a kidney + cash? Or did you get lucky and snap one up for under 600.

That kit just looks, and I know sounds great.

You officially have vintage Ludwig GAS,and need to just let the magic continue to happen.

The rock n roll doctor says,the only cure for more magic and mojo of the Ludwig GAS syndrom.......is MORE Ludwig.

Enjoy Bob.:)

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 08-25-2013 at 07:12 PM.
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  #140  
Old 08-25-2013, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Interesting Steve, I had always wondered why a kit would be offered with two identical high toms.
I have also wondered why more 14" FT's weren't manufactured.

Yes, I had to pay big bucks for the 14" FT.
They sell quickly and you have to jump on it if you want a good one.
This one is in good condition. I have to re-glue the wrap seem.
It cleaned up nice.
I put some new Gibraltar 2.3mm hoops on it along with new leg mounts that accept memory locks.
I also had to add longer legs because the short ones were to low for me.

I know that I may be committing a crime by changing the hoops, but I like thicker hoops.
I feel that they add a robust warmth to a drum.
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  #141  
Old 09-14-2013, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I have some video of my vintage kit. please read the description on the video link for more info. Thanks :) http://youtu.be/6MOYWSkQg80
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  #142  
Old 09-14-2013, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
B
The rock n roll doctor says,the only cure for more magic and mojo of the Ludwig GAS syndrom.......is MORE Ludwig.

Enjoy Bob.:)

Steve B
The "more cowbell" people would certainly have something to say about that.
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  #143  
Old 11-17-2013, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Some new spurs and a new way of configuring the kit.
I added some. "Ludwig Atlas Anchor" bass drum spurs. They work great! The bass drum has more volume and punch. It is nice to be able to adjust the height between the BD and the floor by turning the tips of the spurs and locking them with the art deco set screws. The spurs have a 2 1/2" range of length adjustment. The spurs in the pic are lengthened by 1 1/4". The pictured spurs are on a 20" BD with 8 lugs so they are mounted higher from the ground than they if they were mounted on a 22" BD with 10 lugs. The drum is 1/4" higher in the front than the batter side.

I have split my floor toms and I now place the 14" to the left and the 16" to the right.
Change is good! :)
I have found white plastic automotive body fasteners to plug all of the factory holes that were left in the drums from the hardware that I removed when I installed the new Ludwig Atlas Mounts on the high toms and the bass drum. I also used them to fill the holes where the original rail consolette was mounted on the BD. You can see two of them in the second picture.
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  #144  
Old 06-09-2014, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I finally did a full mic-up on this kit today and I thought that I would share it.
https://soundcloud.com/bob-paquette/...ig-full-mic-up
I used a Tascam USA-1800 interface with 8 mic's. GarageBand was the software.
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  #145  
Old 06-09-2014, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Bob the drums sound top notch. You did a nice job recording. Sounds like a flat EQ with no effects, which I appreciate. Is that the way you did it? If so, then even nicer job on tuning and mic placement. They sound very natural. I liked how you didn't ignore the toms. I don't like it when people do these recordings and play kick hat and snare the whole time. These recordings are mainly to hear the drums! So great job. I think even White Chocolate would agree.
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  #146  
Old 06-09-2014, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Thanks Lar, I panned the mic's a bit. I added a slight amount of compression. I also boosted the mids and the lows slightly. I experimented with using the stock mufflers and studio rings but I soon realized that these drums are fine when they are, "Au natural" :) I placed a rolled up hand towel in between the pedal and the bass batter head.
I really love this kit. I have had it for just over a year now and I never get tired of playing it.
It has become part of me and I will never part with it. I never transport it, it just stays right where it is. I play it privately and when muso's come to visit my humble abode for musical mayhem. I can't get enough of its full bottom end even though I tune it at medium tensions.
These drums have a warm power band that is so soothing.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

They sound killer - throaty and full like vintage Luddies should sound. Beautiful!
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  #148  
Old 10-19-2014, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I got creative today and I came up with a new setup for the Lud's.
I figured a way to mount my mini timbales on the stand that holds the high toms and the crash and splash cymbals. I'm liking the new setup so far.
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  #149  
Old 10-19-2014, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Looks great Bob.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much does it bother you to have 2 different badges on the the same kit. My WMP Luds...the 13" tom has a different badge. I've learned to let it go, it's a stupid concern.
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Looks great Bob.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much does it bother you to have 2 different badges on the the same kit. My WMP Luds...the 13" tom has a different badge. I've learned to let it go, it's a stupid concern.
Thanks Lar;
BADGES,,, I DON'TCARE ABOUT STINKIN BADGES!!!
Let It go Larry. The 12" B&O tom is a 69. The other drums are 68 and the 14" FT is a 66. These drums fit together perfectly sound-wise, so nothing else matters :)
The fact that the kit is slightly eclectic makes it all the more real to me. Every drum has its own personality. The modern cookie-cutter predictable rules don't apply and that changes the game up a bit..
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