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  #81  
Old 05-11-2013, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Thanks for the info Bob. I believe it's that thick ply of poplar in the middle is what gives these drums that great sound! I love my orphan kit but man I want one in WMP!
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  #82  
Old 05-11-2013, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Pieced together kits...I don't think Ludwig has ever sold a set with consecutive serial numbers, so if you think about it, they're all pieced together anyway. As long as it's period correct, that's about as good as it gets with Ludwig. Not a knock, just reality.
Larry,Ludwig like it's contempories of the same era,had bins with badges in them,which were in no particular order.When a worker mounted a badge and grommet on a shell,they just grabbed whatever was there.Thats why serial numbers on the badge when used as a method of dating a drum are not precise and are approximate only.

So if the badge numbers were close,it only meant that the kits was assembled during a shorter time period,say within weeks or months.

Drums were warehoused and when orders come in,they were put together as a set.

The other big three basicly did the same thing,but I think you could have a consecutive badged kit custom ordered.Ludwig was very obliging in the day.

Steve B
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  #83  
Old 05-11-2013, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

That's right tamadrm, the shells just sat as a circle shaped 3 ply board while waiting for the final assembly which would have involved the glueing of the scarfed edges, addition of the ordered wrap color, and installation of reinforcement rings.
The shells that were to be lacquerer finished would have sat fully glued and ringed while waiting for an order.
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  #84  
Old 05-12-2013, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

1968 next to 2012. Note the color difference that occurs over a 45 year period.
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  #85  
Old 05-12-2013, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Bob,for a time,Precision was selling an "aged" slightly yellowish WMP wrap as well as a Slingerland inspired version of their WMP which had a slight blue tint to it.

Personally I love the slight tint on your drums.The faint yellowing just makes them look that much classier.Very rich looking.

The late 60's Ludwig version and the 40's and 60's WMP Slingerland used are to my eye, the most beautiful version of a classic wrap.My 47 Super Gene Krupa Radio king is in WMP and only slightly yellowed.With the nickel hardware it's a beautiful drum.

Steve B
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  #86  
Old 05-12-2013, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I also love the charm of the, "Mellow Yellow" Steve.
BTW, I have the same heads on both of these drums and I tuned them the same way.
I can interchange them and I can't tell the difference in the sound. The 68 kit chokes at higher tensions before the 2012, but I expected that because the 2012 doesn't have re-rings.
My gig kit sounds just like my kit. It is a beautiful thing.
Proof that Ludwig got it right with the 2012 Club Date series.
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  #87  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I think those club dates are a home run for Ludwig.You can't touch them for sound and build quality in that price point.

They are every bit a pro sounding kit.

Im glad you're happy with your Luddies Bob.Now you know why they were called "the greatest name on drums".

Steve B
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  #88  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Wow,Im really starting to feel these drums out, it is both awesome and awakening!
The last kit that I owned that tuned and played like this was my 60's Slingerland.
Even my mid seventies Gretsch kit that was a little bit quirky wasn't quite like this.
These drums have a life of their own. They are unpredictable. I simply love them. I never know how they are going to react to a tuning, or playing style. They have me completely baffled%&$#, I am off guard and out of control.

I am kidding of course but deep down inside I do kinda feel this way.
This is a different species of drum than I have known in the past.
I was a beginner when I had my Slingy kit so I never mastered it. I will however, master the tuning and playing these Luddies.
I was planing to play my new kit with my Jazz bud's on Monday last but I held off until I am more familiar with it.
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  #89  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

A brief sound sample recorded with one mic to show the room sound of these babies.
https://soundcloud.com/bob-paquette/...g-sound-sample

Some heavier Rock soloing, https://soundcloud.com/bob-paquette/...ying-on-the-68
You can begin to hear these tubs open up and display what they can do at about 2 mins onward.
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  #90  
Old 05-18-2013, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

TBH Bob, I think they need to be tuned quite a bit tighter. Sorry for being difficult.
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  #91  
Old 05-19-2013, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Round edge drums that have the ability to take a medium tuning tension should be exploited for that ability Larry.
Many round edge kits can't sound like these drums at this tension. That is why I tuned them to medium tension.
I am showing off their range.
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  #92  
Old 05-23-2013, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I want to have some snare buying fun.
I have decided that I want to buy a brand new Ludwig Black Beauty snare for this kit.
I have never owned a Ludwig metal snare before.
I do own a 75 Gretsch COB 10 lug with cast hoops which I love.

I want you ludwig guys to help me pick the proper one.
Please give me your suggestions that are packed with reasons why..
Millenium Throw?
5", or 6.5" depth?
Cast hoops?
Tube Lugs?
Etc.
Please feel free to add your two cents.
The sizes of the kit again are 20, 16, 13.
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  #93  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

For you Bob, I would go with a 5", mainly because you do jazz stuff. Plus, in that era, did they even make 6.5 deep Ludwig snares? You didn't see many if they did. My only complaint with the P-86 is they use 2 proprietary screws as a pivot point. I lost one of those screws and it was difficult to replicate. So as long as they don't fall out, the P-86 is what everyone seems to prefer around here. Personally I never had any issues with the P-85. I'd say go Imperial lugs. As Jules says, nothing screams Ludwig like the Imperial lug. Looking forward to seeing/hearing you play it on the Luds.
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  #94  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Yes Larry ,Ludwig did make 6.5x14 snare drums in the 60's .The LM 402 supraphonic,LM 411 supersensitive metal shells and for 3 ply wood shells the Symphonic,School Festival,Pioneer and Auditorium models.

Steve B
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  #95  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Thanks guys, I am leaning toward the 5" with Imperial lugs and cast hoops. I have what I believe is a P85 on my Club Date snare and It does stick a slight bit. I will go with the P86.
You confirmed what I was thinking.
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  #96  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Yes Larry ,Ludwig did make 6.5x14 snare drums in the 60's .The LM 402 supraphonic,LM 411 supersensitive metal shells and for 3 ply wood shells the Symphonic,School Festival,Pioneer and Auditorium models.

Steve B
Actually, and I didn't say it, but I was referring to 6.5" black beauties. Were they available in the 60's or whenever they re-continued the line?
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  #97  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

The Black Beauty shell in 6'5 depth goes back to the 1920's as far as I know.
I have seen vintage deep shell Black Beauties on eBay in the past.
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  #98  
Old 05-24-2013, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Actually, and I didn't say it, but I was referring to 6.5" black beauties. Were they available in the 60's or whenever they re-continued the line?
Production stopped just before WW II.Ludwig resurected the BB in 77 and offered the 416 5",the 417 6.5 and 418/419 5" and 6.5 supersensitive.

Steve B
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  #99  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Production stopped just before WW II.
Steve, I am not sure what you meant by that?
Did you mean that production of deep 6.5" Black Beauties stopped before WWII?

I love this kit and I am slowly learning a lot about Ludwig history from the experts here.
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  #100  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Bob they stopped offering Black Beauties completely for many years, he's not just referring to the 6.5" depth. You couldn't get a new one for like 37 years, between the early 40's and 1977.

So anyone claiming they have a mid 50's BB is fibbing lol.
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  #101  
Old 05-25-2013, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Nice pick up. Beautiful kit. Love the finish & the year. Here' is mine:

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  #102  
Old 05-26-2013, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Steve, I am not sure what you meant by that?
Did you mean that production of deep 6.5" Black Beauties stopped before WWII?

I love this kit and I am slowly learning a lot about Ludwig history from the experts here.
Yeah Bob.Like Larry said,Ludwig ceased all production of the black beauty model,at the onset of WW II,and didn't reintroduce the BB till 1977.

The first models were brass,then Ludwig sometime in the early 80's went to a bronze shell,then back to a brass shell.

Another difference in the newer BBs is that they were all,with little exception,machine engraved and NOT hand engraged.

Thats is according to John Aldridge,who has engraved his fair share of BBs.

Those bronze BB's are highly collectable.

So if somebody claims they have a WFL or Keystone BB....bullocks.

Steve B

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  #103  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

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Nice pick up. Beautiful kit. Love the finish & the year. Here' is mine:

Nice Club Date Push. It appears to be in collectors condition.

I won a BlackBeauty on e-Bay today:)
It is a smooth shell 5x14 with, flanged hoops, Imperial lugs, and a P-85. The standard model.
I think that it will be a fine compliment to my kit.
It is in excellent condition and the price was within the current used market value.

I also ordered modern Ludwig replacement mounts with memory locks for the rack tom, bass drum spurs, and floor tom legs. I will keep the originals for authenticity if I ever resell.
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  #104  
Old 06-01-2013, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

My Black Beauty arrived yesterday. It is used, and it came with a Remo PS3 batter.
I lubed the P85 strainer so it slides like butter on a hot knife. It was real sticky.
I removed the PS3 and I put an Ambassador on top and cranked it up nice and snug.
Wow, Nice Drum!
So clean in both sound and appearance.
Just a beautiful drum. Ludwig named it correctly :)
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  #105  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Glad to hear you're loving your BB Bob.They are no doubt legendary for a reason,but just a point of information.

Although I do love my Luddies,Ludwig actually stole the name Black Beauty from...........Slingerland

In their 1928 catalog,which was Slingerlands first as a banjo AND drum company)Slingerland called their black nickle over brass drum,the black beauty.Although the drum was actually an Artist model,Slingerland refered to the finish as black beauty.

The drum was only availabe for a year or two,so it's the rarest on the black beauty snare drums,and therefor the most sought after and expensive.

Ludwig didn't strart using the name black beauty untill 1932.Prior to that,their NOB drums were called the Deluxe or Instipation model.

Enjoy your BB and the Ludwig mojo.

Steve B
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  #106  
Old 06-02-2013, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Interesting. Thanks for more history.
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  #107  
Old 07-28-2013, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Ducky and I have been really busy as of late.
We added some updated features to the Luddy kit.
We decided that the 3 ply mounted tom needed a rim mount to allow it to sing to its fullest potential so we added a Ludwig Vibraband Rim Mount. We also installed a longer 3/8"/ 9.5mm L rod on the Rail Consolette Tom Holder to add needed height for the new tom isolation mount.
We added large wing nuts that we rethreaded from metric to USS threads to the rail mount so that we didn't have to remember to bring a wrench with us everywhere that we travelled with the vintage kit.
We then added modern Ludwig hardware that allowed Memory Locks to be used for the mounted tom, floor tom legs, and bass drum spurs. They also have large wing nuts to make our set up easier.
We also decided that we like 2.3mm hoops better than 1.6mm so we added them to the toms.
Ducky and I are very pleased and we gigged this kit for the first time last night with excellent results :)
Ducky sits at his post on top of the bass drum and he guards the kit against attacks from enemy's both foreign and domestic. If I mess up while playing he turns around and he quacks at me until I straighten up and fly right :)
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  #108  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Nice work there, Bob (and Ducky). That is such a beautiful kit. Would like to get me one of those one day!
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  #109  
Old 07-28-2013, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Hold the phone a minute there Mister...Just a few weeks ago you said you didn't like iso mounts. Hey I like the suspension mounts. I think you did great. But you got some splainin to do lol. If this is the ducks influence then I like the duck. Otherwise, you're freaking me out man.
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  #110  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Larry, I don't normally use Iso mounts. This one came from my 2012 Club Date kit. I don't use it on that kit because it doesn't need it.
The 3 ply shell tom on the 68 kit just won't sing at higher tunings without an iso mount.
I noted that you had the same experience with your vintage Ludwig tom. That is what gave me the Idea to use it.
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  #111  
Old 07-29-2013, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Oh I agree with you. I think iso mounts benefit every drum that has a mount in the middle of the shell. All my vintage Luds have iso mounts. It's sounds choked otherwise.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Thanks drumdevil9, I didn't see your post at first. Sorry about that.

Larry, I also think that the problem occurs when the mount is bolted in the center of the shell.
I positioned the mount at the top of the shell of the toms on my other kits and there is no problem.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

No problem. Hmm, you have me thinking maybe I should try an iso mount on my Rockers tom. The bracket is in the middle as well. Although I haven't done the mounted vs. unmounted sound test. What did you plug the holes with? Looks like plastic.

EDIT: Actually I just checked and it's a bit above center.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:57 AM
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I plugged the holes in the tom with plastic rivets that are used on automobile body parts.
I repair cars for a living and I have hundreds of them laying around the shop. You can buy them in any automotive supply store.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:31 AM
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I just ordered a new style Ludwig Atlas Isolation Mount that replaces a lug on the high tom as a mount. I want to ditch the ugly Vibraband.
I will post a review in about a week when it arrives.
I am trying to keep this kit as original as possible while making upgrades that compliment the kit while modernizing it.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:04 AM
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Larry, I also think that the problem occurs when the mount is bolted in the center of the shell.
I positioned the mount at the top of the shell of the toms on my other kits and there is no problem.
Right, like the Yamaha Yess mounts...they support the shell from right near the bearing edge. They work fine IMO. But supporting a drum shell solely from a mount that's drilled dead center of the shell, like the old Luds....that's the worst possible place to support it from.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:20 AM
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Right, like the Yamaha Yess mounts...they support the shell from right near the bearing edge. They work fine IMO. But supporting a drum shell solely from a mount that's drilled dead center of the shell, like the old Luds....that's the worst possible place to support it from.
I learned this back in the 1970's. When I bought my 1975 Gretsch kit, I custom ordered Rogers tom mounts and I had them placed near the top of the drum shells for best possible shell resonance. I learned it from my drum instructor who was an excellent jazz player who owned a set of Fibes drums at the time.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I made some changes to the kit. I added a 1969 vintage B&O badge 12" tom.
I added a PDP 10" timbale.
I also bought 2 new Ludwig Atlas lug style tom mounts. (I love them! I can't say enough good things about them)
I bought a stand by Gibraltar that holds two toms and two cymbals. (its great)
I now have a 5 piece with two up on the left, with only one stand holding up the whole left side.
Everything is just ducky in my world and I am, Groovin High as the old jazz standard implies. :)
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

Bob, they look even better than they did, which is saying a lot. They look teriffic!

It's funny, you have a set of WMP keystone badges with one B/O badge, I have a set of WMP B/O badges with one keystone badge. The universe is in balance lol.

I like the way they look with both toms on the left. I never tried setting my kit up like that. It looks great. My only concern is the extra distance to the floor tom.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:56 AM
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  #120  
Old 08-14-2013, 03:10 AM
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drumdevil9 drumdevil9 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Montreal area
Posts: 1,220
Default Re: Just Bought a late 60's Luddy Kit

I'm glad the Atlas mounts worked out for you. Your kit is even awesomer than before!
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Eric
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