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  #1  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:51 AM
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Default Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Is it too much to ask in an ad for a drummer who is both fast and hard hitting?.... Seems like that would need too much stamina....
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2013, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: How effective is this bands ad for a drummer? Does it ask for too much?......

If you have regular gigs I would mention it. If you want someone good you're gonna have to play out some for sure.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Why do they have to be hard hitting? The concern should be more about playing and keeping tempo. If you want volume turn up the channels on the pa for drums. The faster a drummer plays the shorter the "swing" and stick movement has to be to keep the tempo going steady.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by konaboy View Post
Why do they have to be hard hitting? The concern should be more about playing and keeping tempo. If you want volume turn up the channels on the pa for drums. The faster a drummer plays the shorter the "swing" and stick movement has to be to keep the tempo going steady.
+1

It's a red flag whenever someone has the audacity to tell me how to play my drums. I don't tell guitar players how to play their instrument and I've been that playing much longer than I've been a drummer.

I'm not a hard hitter by any measure, the better I get at my instrument the more I'm becoming a jazz cat. I can beat the hell out of my drums though, I'm fully capable of playing really loud. I'm so much more than that though.

To answer your quandary, your scope is limited. You're limited drummers to a CD player with a couple of knobs. I can honestly say that if you condensed this to a Craigslist ad I wouldn't even bother clicking on it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I don't think its to much to ask for that in an ad. Some drummers love to play fast and hard, I enjoy it myself sometimes.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2013, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

It would be a sad day if this were the only criteria for a drummer.

Dennis
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I've seen some drummers hit really hard. The irony is it really doesn't sound any different to the audience - just (depending on your preference) puts on more of a show.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I play hard...VERY hard. And fast. All our songs are fast paced.

I do, personally, think it's a failure in technique and am always trying to reign it in.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

A fast drummer I can understand (if that's what your music calls for).
As for the hard-hitting part I'm not sure what purpose that would serve (triggers could be an option if you're concerned with volume, otherwise turn up the kit mics)?
Unless of course you mean hard -hitting from a performance perspective (as in "Wow, look at that drummer going off"!).
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

It's not correct to say that how hard you hit the drums doesn't make any difference...it makes an enormous difference. However this might be the sort of thing where you'd be better off auditioning people as how people perceive their own playing is not necessarily how it actually comes across to a listener. Some might think they play affirmatively and strongly but actually sound a bit limp, while others might think they have great technique while playing the drums as if hammering nails into wood and breaking everything. Neither one is really a good thing.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

nothing wrong with asking for what you want.

plenty guys hit hard and sound great
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I don't think it's too much to ask - this is all about excitement and buzz. That's how I played (or tried to) back in the day. John Bonham. Ian Paice. Cozy Powell. Aynsley Dunbar. At the time anything else would have seemed tame.

These days I can last about 15 seconds in that mode before I fade away ....
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I think that musicians (drummers in this instance) in certain genres/styles classify their talents and skills in specific ways related to how they want the style to come across. There are definitely drummers out there who will take pride in there speed and power, so I don't think it's asking too much at all.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

The short answer is no. It's not too much to ask.

In fact, it may be too little to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PQleyR View Post
It's not correct to say that how hard you hit the drums doesn't make any difference...it makes an enormous difference.
Being a "hard hitter", how hard you hit the drums, looking like you're hitting hard and hitting hard to get a particular drum sound are often relevant factors.

For some music, playing the drums lightly but turning up the volume on the kit through the PA doesn't sound right. It may be only loud but still sound "tippy-tappy"

Sometimes the music requires it, sometimes the show requires it.

I can play very loudly and look like I'm half asleep. After looking at several videos of our band playing many months ago, I concluded that the way I looked while playing some of our heavier rock songs was quite boring and not entertaining. I started adding a little extra motion and some exaggerated movements to my playing without really changing up my sound and volume. Nothing extreme but it definitely made an impact on having the audience be more into it and I could see the crowd start moving right away, much more than before. The energy was sort of contagious.

The moniker "hard hitter" has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. IMO, the range between hitting softly and very hard is not that big. Not in the physical sense that is.

Look at Jose Pasillas from Incubus. He's about 5'0" tall and probably 110 lbs soaking wet. He certainly sounds like a hard hitter to me. I'm 6'4" and 245 lbs. I could use rebar for drumsticks if I had to. Almost anyone can hit a drum or a cymbal and max out the sound it produces.

There are so many things that go into it that it would probably be better to redefine what you're looking for and expand on the "hard and fast" requirement to get the kind of drumming you're looking for.
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Last edited by TTNW; 04-25-2013 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Clarity
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hssss View Post
Is it too much to ask in an ad for a drummer who is both fast and hard hitting?
Yes.

Next question.....?
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

They do exist.

I suppose it does depend on how fast, as there is a certain degree of sacrifice of power when getting up to speed.

But Dave Lombardo, Roy Mayorga, Seven Antonopoolos, Deen Castronovo, Dave Ghrol, among others are all hard hitters who are capable of playing at high speeds.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Instead of asking for a hard hitter and a fast player, I would list the bands/songs/type of music you are covering, so you attract someone who lines up with what you are looking for. If you are original, I would mention what style you play in. I'm just afraid that you will attract the wrong type of drummers with a "hard and fast" ad. There's a lot of guys who pride themselves on playing hard and fast, as if that's all that matters.

Like you could get a guy that plays hard and fast, but has underdeveloped concepts of good meter, dynamic playing, and being a team player. You might attract show offs.

Hey, CL is free. No reason why you can't give it a try. If it attracts the wrong type of drummer, reword it and include more specifics as to what you are seeking.

A hard and fast drummer that has no concept of what the other players require, or a drummer whose meter is all over the place...I'm guessing that's not what you want.

Auditioning players is always an adventure. Good drummers with a good attitude and are easy to work with, who are reliable and have a good sound are a valuable commodity.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Who cares if they hit hard? I can hit hard, if I want...who can't? A monkey with a stick could hit a drum hard. It's pointless. If all you want is a guy who can hit hard and fast, you'll get a TON of responses. Hell, anyone can bang away like a moron. Not sure it'll go over well with the rest of the band. This is ridiculous. It's like me saying I want a guitarist who can play loud.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Fast and hard hitting tend to be inversely proportional. To play fast you need to conserve energy by playing lower & lighter. When playing really fast you need to pick your moments where you're not competing with a wall of sound.
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I don't fall into the metal/punk/thrash etc. category on any of my gigs. I do play hard but I don't ever have to pull out super large sticks and go for it at +200bpm. So take this post with that in mind.

I don't think there's a 'Yes' or 'No' answer here.

However may I give a few perspectives?

The first one may leave a bad taste in some people's mouths but here goes.

To the question "Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?..." I would propose back: "Is it too much to ask for a substantial paycheck for that player?"

I know there are those that will cry 'mercenary' or 'you don't get it' but I truly believe there are an ample numbers of drummers who fit these two qualifications (and more) who would jump into a band with proper financial incentive. Considering that I keep hearing about metal and punk bands coming off of tour in the red, there are far less musical situations (live, sessions, etc) that could pony up for the kind of top drawer player who has developed these skills over years.

This may seem silly in number but if you offered Derek Roddy (a DW member) $1000 for a rehearsal and $3000 for a week tour you wold have no problem finding a hard hitting, fast drummer. The problem with the question posed by the OP is that factor is never a consideration. You can back off these numbers to where they line up with whatever the working, financially healthy, pro bands that use drummers like this pay.

The second proposal, and many who have answered ads for drummers can sympathize, Is it too much to ask for compositions that are very well written, only needing the right players to play them? Many bands think they have great songs but they really don't. That's not just hard and fast bands, that's all over the rock/pop/funk/jazz etc., spectrum. They may even have OK songs - but not great. So then you have to add something to the original question like 'hard/fast that can help us develop our songs' Really? I thought you just needed a hard and fast player? If a player has to sit in a practice room for hours upon countless hours, is it too much to ask that a songwriter spend the same amount of time honing his craft? Too often this is not the case at all.

Then there is the hang. Do you want an incredibly fast hard hitting drummer who you are soon to get in a fist fight with over what he says and does in normal social interactions? Some bands have tolerated this. For a season but not forever. The answer is probably not. Again, most pros who have credits and reputations understand that the social aspect will come into factor at some point and they need to be someone who can develop into almost family for a band, live gig assignment or session to work.

These are some perspectives that I feel aren't considered. Pros will come if you have all of your ducks in a row. If you don't then you should ask yourself what you or your situation is lacking as much as what the overwhelming number of (non-paid) drummers are lacking.

Jim
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  #21  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedboyxx View Post

To the question "Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?..." I would propose back: "Is it too much to ask for a substantial paycheck for that player?"

I know there are those that will cry 'mercenary' or 'you don't get it' but I truly believe there are an ample numbers of drummers who fit these two qualifications (and more) who would jump into a band with proper financial incentive. Considering that I keep hearing about metal and punk bands coming off of tour in the red, there are far less musical situations (live, sessions, etc) that could pony up for the kind of top drawer player who has developed these skills over years.
Yes, All Good points Jim.

Much like many of the threads of "why can't I find a drummer that can do this or that", it comes down to money. I can give you the name and number of someone who can fit the given situation, but they're not going to play for free.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

How fast are we talking? You can only hit so hard while attaining modern Death Metal speeds.
If we are speaking of other genres...
Most of the "tappers" that show up for auditions have seldom played outside of their garages.Find someone who can play.Power will come later.When I was a kid,my best friend's Marshalls taught me how to drive nails.
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  #23  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I suggest a wider call...as many drummers with the skills and style you are looking for might be put off by the advertisement.

Musically dummed down advertisements do not make me want to spend the time to haul/set-up gear and see what the project is...


...remember ...the musician is auditioning the project as well.
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Hard = Kenny Aronoff

Fast = Virgil Donati

Hard & Fast = Cozy Powell

Answer = no, it's not to much to ask...
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hssss View Post
Is it too much to ask in an ad for a drummer who is both fast and hard hitting?....
Not at all. But you need to decide how fast and how hard. Otherwise, your just speaking in generalizations, and one mans fast and hard might not be anothers.
Quote:
Seems like that would need too much stamina....
Well, what's the context of your performance/stage time? Are you doing 1 hour shows, or 3 hour shows. If you're a house band .... or playing at a local bar from 9 to midnight, then yeah .... might be a wee bit too much to ask.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

IF that is what you believe you need to make your statement, then ask for it. In itself, it's
limiting the musical possibilities.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Actually, your post is chock full of ambiguity. Hard and fast are two terms subject to interpretation. The question i would ask, of course, is " how hard and how fast". Wouldn't you rather have a drummer that plays "well"? Of course that word is also ambiguous, but much less so.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I suspect you guys are overthinking it. Anyone whose focus is on a drummer playing "fast and hard" isn't going to sweat about the detail being raised here. They just want to rock out.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Instead of asking for a hard hitter and a fast player, I would list the bands/songs/type of music you are covering, so you attract someone who lines up with what you are looking for. If you are original, I would mention what style you play in. I'm just afraid that you will attract the wrong type of drummers with a "hard and fast" ad. There's a lot of guys who pride themselves on playing hard and fast, as if that's all that matters.

Like you could get a guy that plays hard and fast, but has underdeveloped concepts of good meter, dynamic playing, and being a team player. You might attract show offs.

Hey, CL is free. No reason why you can't give it a try. If it attracts the wrong type of drummer, reword it and include more specifics as to what you are seeking.

A hard and fast drummer that has no concept of what the other players require, or a drummer whose meter is all over the place...I'm guessing that's not what you want.

Auditioning players is always an adventure. Good drummers with a good attitude and are easy to work with, who are reliable and have a good sound are a valuable commodity.
^^^^ This is great advice ^^^^^^

You need someone that fits your style. If loud and fast is it, so be it. The music I play mostly requires softer playing and someone who can play slow tempos on up through very fast. The music played will define the type of player.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Volume is directly related to length of stroke. The longer the stroke the louder the volume, but it also takes time to make a longer strokes because is is a long distance. So don't expect any drummer to play 240 bpm 16th notes with 2 foot long strokes.

The same goes with the bass beater as well.

If you want more volume ,mic and patch him/her into the board.

Maybe we need guitar players with LESS VOLUME?



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Old 04-26-2013, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

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Originally Posted by techristian View Post
Volume is directly related to length of stroke. The longer the stroke the louder the volume, but it also takes time to make a longer strokes because is is a long distance. So don't expect any drummer to play 240 bpm 16th notes with 2 foot long strokes.

The same goes with the bass beater as well.

If you want more volume ,mic and patch him/her into the board.

Maybe we need guitar players with LESS VOLUME?



Dan
not entirely true

I can play extremely loudly from 6" away from the drum head

technique

....and I think everyone is absolutely overly reading into the OPs question....alomst to the point where it's kinda funny

you want someone who plays loud and fast....go find someone who plays loud and fast my man

not everything is technical in rock n roll......some of my favorite players growing up just beat the hell out of the drums using zero technique .....caveman style

its a wonderful thing

if someone comes to audition and they just bash with no taste or time ....you say thank you ...next

if someone comes in and bashes and is exactly what you are looking for....boom

dont read too into all the technical jargon you read here....just go find your guy and play to your hearts content
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I'm beginning to think this was a hit and run troll question. The OP hasn't responded to any of it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Well I think that my post was the most deserving of being ignored. ;-)
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'm beginning to think this was a hit and run troll question. The OP hasn't responded to any of it.
Indeed, OP poses similar other strange questions and then.....vanishes.
They fall into the "what kind of toothpaste works best?" genre.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I'm beginning to think this was a hit and run troll question. The OP hasn't responded to any of it.
he got that off really.....

throw a bone out to the rabid drummers and watch them all fight for it.....I love it

Neil Peart sucks....thoughts?

thats how it's done...

:)

.....and some wonder why there are so many drummer jokes

Last edited by Anthony Amodeo; 04-26-2013 at 11:40 PM.
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  #36  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

Check out the video here of Steve Gadd and Vick Firth. this very topic is raised by Vick. They have some very introspective thoughts on it! These guys know something about performance!

http://www.vicfirth.com/artists/gadd.php
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I've seen ads asking for hard hitters. Seems to me it isn't for increased volume, but rather more showmanship that the rest of the band feeds off of.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:33 AM
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AirborneSFC AirborneSFC is offline
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Location: Germany (Bavaria)
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

I was hired for my current band because I could play with controlled power when needed. Still dynamic but I can hit hard when I have to. Back in Germany it would be one gig doing brush work, the next punk rock and then pop covers. Never really thought of myself as a power player but I guess my early roots in metal and punk paid off.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:44 AM
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: Is it too much to ask for a hard hitting and fast drummer?...

If I see a drummer wanted ad that says "must play fast and hit hard" I just assume that they're idiots and move on to the next ad.

If you want a drummer who plays "loudly" and can handle quick tempos, fine, just say so. But fast and hard? Wrong adjectives. Or maybe just wrong subject...
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