DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Pedals

Pedals Discuss Pedals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #161  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:48 PM
Fat Elvis's Avatar
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,452
Default Dualist

You do have to wonder if this pedal design was made by DW (9000 series) or Axis, would it be hailed as ingenious? Somehow i bet it would be more "accepted". Dollars to donuts some of the hatred is directed at a "no name" company, with a plastic product with a bright pink logo.
__________________


This is me.

This is what I do.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 05-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: Dualist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
You do have to wonder if this pedal design was made by DW (9000 series) or Axis, would it be hailed as ingenious? Somehow i bet it would be more "accepted". Dollars to donuts some of the hatred is directed at a "no name" company, with a plastic product with a bright pink logo.
Man, that's an excellent observation. I think there's some amount of bias in favor of the big manufacturers.

The story of The Duallist is pretting interesting. The maker, Kevin Mackie, started this as a high school shop project 20 years ago and it's a passion he's followed his whole life. This didn't spring from a focus group, marketing survey or other corporate initative. This guy just had a vision for a better pedal and followed his heart.

The only reason the big name manufacturers don't have their own version of the Duallist is because Mackie has patented everything, so they can't rip him off. Sonor has its own version, but it's more like a Vruk. While Mackie has the exclusivity, he lacks the big-name recognition and it's unfortunate people hold that against him. The pedal is really revolutionary and will change your entire approach to playing.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 05-15-2006, 09:13 PM
beatsMcGee's Avatar
beatsMcGee beatsMcGee is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,326
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

the dualist is really a matter of principle to me.. while everyone has posted great points and counter points it just comes to principle. to me it seems like an easy way out, i prefer the self acomplishment that is acheived when you can play clean doubles with the traditional pedal using one foot. not that i am against improvment and the bettering of drumming products it come to some things seem to be more a backdoor to a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 05-16-2006, 12:25 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by syaoran05
for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.

just out of curiousity, why would you say that the sonor pedal is "way better than the duallist in any way" when you havent ever played either pedal and admit that you dont fully understand how the sonar works? you've come to that conclusion by looking at pictures?

i dont want to seem hostile, but thats the kind of post we dont need. at least have some knowledge of the topic before you post.

but then again if that logic was followed this thread would only have about 30 posts in it.....
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 05-16-2006, 12:56 AM
Garvin's Avatar
Garvin Garvin is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northern USA
Posts: 1,946
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhalo
isnt that system brilliant? whoever invented that needs better marketing people. drummers should be marching in the streets to get that universalized. but i bet only a handful of people even on this forum know what were talking about. also, always wanted to try out a flats kit. they just look so cool!
I had to play one of those for 3 straight months. I got realllly sick of it after a while. The only great thing was I could take it on a bus through Central America without having to have a road crew. The sound of the bass drum is okay at first, but after a while you really miss the fullness of a real bass. Also the snares suck and there is really only one good spot to tune the drums (pitch wise) Sorry.

Oh.... I don't have nor will I ever have a dualist (Just to keep on topic)
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 05-16-2006, 01:03 AM
finnhiggins's Avatar
finnhiggins finnhiggins is offline
GONE MUCH TOO EARLY!!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,430
Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by syaoran05
for that thing i think the sonor pedal [i forgot what it's called] that's a single pedal with 2 beaters [and i think the 2nd beater is controlled on the back part of the pedal using your heel, at least by looking at the pic] would be better that a duallist. i think that sonor pedal is way better than the duallist in any way.
Having played one of the Sonor pedals I'd say that I'd never buy one. It has no rest position that I could find without stomping one of the beaters into the head, which I avoid unless I'm specifically doing it for a sound. The only way to rest your foot (and therefore remove tension from your leg) was to take it off the pedal entirely and put it on the floor - or at least your heel, anyway. Not very efficient in terms of use of muscles.
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 05-16-2006, 09:57 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

You mean the dual beater option can't be switched off??? That's amazingly stupid, especially for such a fantastically expensive pedal. Even with The Duallist, I only play both beaters about 10 percent of the time when performing (more when practicing because it's so gosh darn FUN to belt out those 16th shuffles with one foot). The secondary beater on the Duallist can be switched on and off immediately.

Dual beater/single foot pedal designs have been around since the 1930s but they never caught on because they couldn't be transformed into a single pedal when needed. The Duallist is the first such pedal that can be instantly and conveniently converted to traditional single pedal when needed.
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 05-17-2006, 12:37 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

DMC, when i was playing with the duallist i never bothered to turn the double mode off. you can play single strokes in double mode by not letting the pedal board come all the way up. i'm sure that you've noticed that already. i just thought it was easier to control the upstroke than to worry about stomping on the levers while playing.
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 05-17-2006, 07:30 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhalo
DMC, when i was playing with the duallist i never bothered to turn the double mode off. you can play single strokes in double mode by not letting the pedal board come all the way up. i'm sure that you've noticed that already. i just thought it was easier to control the upstroke than to worry about stomping on the levers while playing.
Yes, Halo, that's true. You could also use the secondary beater as your primary beater if you played only north of the neutral midpoint (lifting your foot UP to make the beater contact - trippy). Maybe not too practical, but it would be a tremendous control exercise and far more advanced than anything on a traditional double pedal.

I've been practicing paradiddles and double strokes with my Duallist. It's extremely difficult, much more challenging that doing it with a double pedal. It really forces you to reassess your entire approach to the foot pedal.

If you were using the Duallist only in double mode, that's very difficult and you must have developed some chops to do it. So how come you don't play a Duallist anymore?
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 05-18-2006, 12:11 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

i basically demoed the duallist for a few days on musiciansfriends dime. i was looking for a new double and figured i'd give the duallist a shot cause it looked interesting. i couldnt really get into it and figured id be better off getting a traditional double pedal and learning that. so i returned the duallist and now im playing yamaha direct drives and i couldnt be happier, but i'm always on the lookout for something different.

and my chops really arent that killer. i hated the force necessary to play in double mode, but the pedal felt too slow and light in single mode. i guess it was attributable to the strap drive (thats the only one ive ever played) and the fact that i only spent a few hours tweaking it. from what i've gathered, tweaking is the key to that beast.
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 05-18-2006, 05:39 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Well, Halo, I do respect your opinion. You might not be too fond of The Duallist for yourself, but you have actually tried it and you appreciate its advantages and disadvantages, so you have a basis for your opinions.

Before anyone forms a strong opinion about The Duallist one way or the other, they should try one. It is not easier than you think and it's not harder than you think. It's just totally unlike what you think and you have to play one to understand.
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 05-20-2006, 09:58 AM
Chip
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

DMC, have you tried putting some velcro on the footplate/ your shoe, or taping, strapping (belt maybe?), somehow attaching your foot for a more controlled upstroke?
I was ust thinking about it, so I decided I may as well try and suggest it or help someone as I don't have one.
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 05-20-2006, 10:47 AM
jarrod's Avatar
jarrod jarrod is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 103
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

i think it makes u look worse, for exampel some uses the dualist and goes look how fasti can play and then u get some one that can play faster with just a normal double pedal

But i would never have one because i dont like the diea of having more beaters than feet
__________________
Jarrod
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 05-22-2006, 07:56 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
DMC, have you tried putting some velcro on the footplate/ your shoe, or taping, strapping (belt maybe?), somehow attaching your foot for a more controlled upstroke?
I was ust thinking about it, so I decided I may as well try and suggest it or help someone as I don't have one.
That's a good idea. There is that adhesive-backed sandpaper (used for stair treads) that I have stuck on my hi-hat, foot percussion and variable pitch drum pedals. I should put that or some Velcro on the Duallist pedal, because it is a little slick.
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 05-23-2006, 02:48 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod
i think it makes u look worse, for exampel some uses the dualist and goes look how fasti can play and then u get some one that can play faster with just a normal double pedal

But i would never have one because i dont like the diea of having more beaters than feet
wlele i thinkkknek that havnig too dumrstiks is stupit cuz havaving mor drumticsk thn hands is stupit. aslo sum drumer can play fster than an other drumer taht is my opinon.

seriously.... what?????
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #176  
Old 05-23-2006, 06:05 AM
glynes's Avatar
glynes glynes is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Seattle area, Washington
Posts: 467
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Being in the market for my first double bass pedal, I've read this topic with great interest. I may have to give this thing a look/listen. Cheating? Maybe. But face it, I'm not 13 and I don't move so fast. That's pretty much the reason for the double pedal in the first place. If there's something that can give me the sound I want and allow me to conserve a little energy, I'd sure consider it. I'm sorry if that means you won't respect me in the morning ... but unless you're hiring me for a band, or booking me into a gig, I'm afraid that's not my #1 priority,
8-)
Of course, what it'll come down to is what Donn Bennett has at his big sale in 2 weeks.
__________________
"Glynes"
************
Don't mess with the little lady drummer!!!
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 05-23-2006, 07:42 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

It's good you keep an open mind, Glynes. You should give it a try and you can always send it back if you don't like it. I'd advise you to develop some skill on single-pedal to get the most out of the Duallist.

The first foot pedals came out more than 100 years ago and were made out of wood, slow, cumbersome and hard to play. Ludwig improved on that with a compact spring design. No doubt people playing the inefficient pedals back then cried cheating.

The first single-pedal dual-beaters date from the 1920s and the first double pedals date from 1983 (the DW 5002). So, which came first and who is copying who?

Double pedals are big, clumsy, hard to play, waste space and prevent full use of the hi-hat. The Duallist makes all double pedals obsolete.
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 05-23-2006, 07:50 PM
Fat Elvis's Avatar
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,452
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

wish they were cheaper. :) i am somewhat intrigued as well. I have a DW 5002 right now, but i play double so rarely that my skills pretty much suck. It would be nice to be able to concentrate on single footwork (which i do) and be able to use the double effortlessly on the rare occasion that i would need it.

is your only option to buy direct from dualist?
__________________


This is me.

This is what I do.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 05-24-2006, 05:42 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

you can find the dualist pedals on musiciansfriend. thats where i got mine. and if you dont like it you can just return it for about $9. think of it as a rental.
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #180  
Old 05-25-2006, 06:27 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
wish they were cheaper. :) i am somewhat intrigued as well. I have a DW 5002 right now, but i play double so rarely that my skills pretty much suck. It would be nice to be able to concentrate on single footwork (which i do) and be able to use the double effortlessly on the rare occasion that i would need it.

is your only option to buy direct from dualist?
I bought from the manufacturer because I like the company and its story and I wanted to support them directly, but I'd say get one any way you can.

A Duallist will immediately take advantage of your hard-earned right-foot skills and open up a new dimension in playing. You will be amazed to hear what funky closed-open hi-hat patterns sound like when superimposed on two-beater patterns. That's just impossible with standard double beaters. Because The Duallist puts your right-foot skills to work, you won't have to spend hundreds of hours training you left foot to play patterns you will be lucky to use once every 10 songs. That will free your time up for developing other skills.

The Duallist works very well as a high-quality single pedal also. You will need to practice at getting used to the difference in tension, however. In dual-beater mode, you are pulling on the springs for both beaters, which takes double the effort (contrary to popular belief, The Duallist doesn't "do the work for you"). When you drop back into single-beater mode, the tension drops to half. That takes some getting used to - one of the many subtle skills you will develop on The Duallist.
Reply With Quote
  #181  
Old 05-26-2006, 04:25 AM
DdubBdrum's Avatar
DdubBdrum DdubBdrum is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 12
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

My logic against buying one and using it exclusively would be that if you ever played on another kit, or took lessons on a different kit, you'd either have to bring your dualist or sound like crap. So if you played anywhere but practice with a dualist and someone later told you "WOW MAN! You have crazy chops on those bass drum doubles!" and ask you to play, well, unless you carry your pedal in a backpack with you everywhere you go, you'd have to embarassedly say, "Oh, well I can't do it without my special pedal." Where as, if you just develop your true blue right foot chops, you'd have no problem on any kit, any place, anytime. just my logic and opinion.

-D
__________________
I Play DW Drums!

Be Funky.
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 05-26-2006, 05:22 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubBdrum
My logic against buying one and using it exclusively would be that if you ever played on another kit, or took lessons on a different kit, you'd either have to bring your dualist or sound like crap. So if you played anywhere but practice with a dualist and someone later told you "WOW MAN! You have crazy chops on those bass drum doubles!" and ask you to play, well, unless you carry your pedal in a backpack with you everywhere you go, you'd have to embarassedly say, "Oh, well I can't do it without my special pedal." Where as, if you just develop your true blue right foot chops, you'd have no problem on any kit, any place, anytime. just my logic and opinion.

-D
agreed. that definitly played into my decision to go with a regular double pedal.
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 05-26-2006, 07:02 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubBdrum
My logic against buying one and using it exclusively would be that if you ever played on another kit, or took lessons on a different kit, you'd either have to bring your dualist or sound like crap. So if you played anywhere but practice with a dualist and someone later told you "WOW MAN! You have crazy chops on those bass drum doubles!" and ask you to play, well, unless you carry your pedal in a backpack with you everywhere you go, you'd have to embarassedly say, "Oh, well I can't do it without my special pedal." Where as, if you just develop your true blue right foot chops, you'd have no problem on any kit, any place, anytime. just my logic and opinion.

-D
Good points. But one could apply the same arguments to double pedals, which have only been out since 1983. As soon as they hit the scene, drummers started using them as a shortcut to do things that would take too much effort to render on a single pedal.

To someone who has devoted the time and effort to develop good double-pedal technique, The Duallist will seem like cheating. But to someone who has devoted the time and effort to develop good single-pedal teachnique, double pedals will seem like cheating. To someone who has devoted the time and effort to develop good Duallist technique, double pedals and single pedals will seem like inefficient curiosities, kind of like how people now view genuine calfhide drum heads.

Until you have tried a Duallist, you should not assume it's easier. It's not easier, but it's not harder. It's just a radically different (and more efficient) way to use your right foot. Checking out opinions on a discussion board is a good way to learn about it, but the only way to truly understand it is to clamp one to your bass drum and put it through the paces. It will turn your view of the bass drum upside down.
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 06-04-2006, 03:43 AM
SilverPearl's Avatar
SilverPearl SilverPearl is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 84
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Yeah it would make rolls easier, but it's not very practical, and way too expensive, the double is better and more renown anyways.
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:28 AM
dasilvs dasilvs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 44
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubBdrum
My logic against buying one and using it exclusively would be that if you ever played on another kit, or took lessons on a different kit, you'd either have to bring your dualist or sound like crap. So if you played anywhere but practice with a dualist and someone later told you "WOW MAN! You have crazy chops on those bass drum doubles!" and ask you to play, well, unless you carry your pedal in a backpack with you everywhere you go, you'd have to embarassedly say, "Oh, well I can't do it without my special pedal." Where as, if you just develop your true blue right foot chops, you'd have no problem on any kit, any place, anytime. just my logic and opinion.

-D
Whoa, wait a second. Aren't double bass pedals considered "special pedals" as well? The way I see it, the Duallist offers the OPTION to use double bass with ONE PEDAL. That's it. I don't understand what people have been saying about it. I bought one not too long ago and after a bit of tinkering I got it to feel EXACTLY like my SINGLE PEDAL. Therefore, my transition was not painful and frustrating like some people seem to think. What it comes down to is TASTE, STYLE and PREFERENCE.

Like Dom Famularo would say, it's just another TOOL for drummers to use to EXPRESS THEMSELVES...

I also forgot to mention that you can buy the double pedal option so that you can get ONE, TWO, or even THREE different beaters going. You can have a single pedal going, add a double with the second pedal, then if you choose to, throw the switch on the first pedal to activate its second pedal for a total of THREE AT A TIME. How can this not EXCITE drummers to explore new things about drumming? Why are so many people so NEGATIVE and CRITICAL?
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 06-05-2006, 06:24 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

dasilvs, I'd like to pick your brain about your settings. I'm having trouble with the secondary beater bouncing too much. Should I reduce the spring tension on it? Increase it? Reduce or increase the throw? Strap length? The pedal is so adjustable I get lost in the settings. FYI, I have very short pedal shafts - I had to cut them with a hacksaw to get them short enough and there is less than three inches of shaft length. I like the settings for the primary beater. I played with a DW 5000 chain drive for more than 10 years and the Duallist feels even more smooth and responsive in single mode. It's the secondary beater that seems to need the most tweaking.

What styles do you play and what preferences do you have and what kinds of settings? That would help me experiment to find the best settings for me. I play world beat/ethnic fusion type stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 06-12-2006, 10:26 PM
d.c.drummer's Avatar
d.c.drummer d.c.drummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,568
Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnhiggins
This isn't a sport. This is music. Is it "cheating" to use electronics and a sampler so I can play chinese festival drums on my kit when I want to? I mean, I could just buy one (for about the price of a new snare drum) and put it out next to my floor tom, then leap up and play it before sitting down again?

Is it cheating to use hot-rods to play quietly rather than spending years learning how to pull off a mean groove at pp dynamic using sticks? It can be done, after all.

Possibly in both cases, if you want to turn drumming into some kind of contest. But there's a limit to how much time any given musician has to practice, and if you're the kind of person for whom double kick is not a major priority *but* you do have some occasional use for one if somebody asks for a burst of kick drum and cymbals somewhere... Maybe this would do the job, no? Should this person learn to play double kick? My answer would be probably not, unless they've got time to spare.

I mean, how many of you people drive manual cars? Or stick-shift, as it seems to get called in the US.. I do, and I like it a lot. But on the other hand, is it "cheating" to drive to work in an automatic? Not really. It gets the job done.

The difference between a good drummer and a bad drummer is not how they manage to hit things with their feet, it's what the music they play sounds like. "Cheating" in my eyes would be doing something like miming to a tape or using ProTools to correct your dodgy snare drum backbeat timing. You shouldn't have to do either of those if you aspire to be a great musician, but I don't see why using a pedal like this would be any kind of obstacle unless there's no way to prevent it constantly firing off double or triple strokes. That would certainly be a good reason to avoid the pedal, but not because it's easier than spending years training your feet for crying out loud...


I completly agree. BUT, the dualist pedal is for drummers like Terry Bozio and stuff. Unless a drummmer is at a high level, they should stick to single and maybe double until they are good at it. Dont sacrifice skill to "cheat" for 200 bucks more. Plus most people would be screwing themselves by trying to use this pedal.
__________________
Take a look at my new stuff. http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25183
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 06-12-2006, 10:59 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

The point is DC, is that this pedal is not 'cheating' it is actually difficult to use and requires its own, very specific and specialised technique.
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 06-13-2006, 09:26 AM
Chip
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I think if the pedal had direct linkages, with the left's linkage being on the other side of the cam, if anybody gets what I mean, I am pretty vague, hehe. With some sort of strap that slips around one's foot to have more controlled upstrokes.

I like the concept of Sonor's double single pedal a lot more. Just seems more simple, it needs to be cheaper.
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 06-13-2006, 08:23 PM
ledzeppelins666's Avatar
ledzeppelins666 ledzeppelins666 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mitch-again
Posts: 130
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I consider it cheating. I have played around with it. I play a double-pedal, and I sometimes think it chokes the head. This piece of crap when playing at a fast enough speed makes the bass drum sound like it is stuffed with pillows to the very top.


What I don't consider cheating is the double pedal. I think of it as a more cost-effective way to play without two huge, exspensive bass drums. I have an Iron Cobra and I love it. I mostly just use it for triplets up to a crash and snare flam or when Im mad and start trying to play metal.


Overall, a waste of money. I would hate the next so-called Buddy Rich to use one of those.
__________________
Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good
When the levee breaks, mama you got to move
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 06-14-2006, 05:07 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 239
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
I think if the pedal had direct linkages, with the left's linkage being on the other side of the cam, if anybody gets what I mean, I am pretty vague, hehe. With some sort of strap that slips around one's foot to have more controlled upstrokes.
why would you need a strap? you already have perfect control of the upstroke with the dualist.

i'm trying to figure out what your going for with the direct linkages on the cam. there has to be two cams. if both linkages went to the same cam then nothing would happen.....and direct drive versus strap doesnt really matter in terms of mechanics. its just a different feel.
__________________
www.edrumming.com- a dedicated forum for all things electronic drum related
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 06-14-2006, 06:38 AM
k3ng's Avatar
k3ng k3ng is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 761
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Gosh this thread is interesting.

When I saw the dualist for the first time, I was 'I have to have one of those.' But then I thought, hey, I'll be much more impressive when I use a single pedal to do super speeds! (Hence I don't even own a double pedal... Stupid double pedal users! Gyaahhh =P)

Anyways, I think we should stop condemning people who use the dualist. It's personal preference. I wouldn't use it, mainly because I think I'll look much better and more impressive with a single pedal. =P It'll also be a personal pride in achieving great speeds without the help of mechanics. But I wouldn't condemn those people who use it as 'cheaters'. There isn't any 'cheating' in music. It's not an exam with a panel of judges to see how you perform. It's just, playing.

Another thing, I do salute the pedal as an amazing invention. Perhaps in the future, drummers will be presented with a whole bunch of technological advancements that will help, or any other word you should choose, drummers to achieve certain things they could not before. It is just a matter of choosing which ones you will use when given to you. I didn't choose a double pedal when presented with one. (I had the money all ready to get one but didn't).

The whole 'dualist is cheating. It's stupid. It's not good' argument should cease. Perhaps we should get percussionist to debate against the usage of drumsticks. Play with your hands you cheaters!

=P

-Charlie
__________________
Percussion like never before.
http://www.inflash.com/list/x.php?en...1&link_id=8192
Reply With Quote
  #193  
Old 06-14-2006, 08:47 AM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzeppelins666

What I don't consider cheating is the double pedal. I think of it as a more cost-effective way to play without two huge, exspensive bass drums. I have an Iron Cobra and I love it. I mostly just use it for triplets up to a crash and snare flam or when Im mad and start trying to play metal.


Overall, a waste of money. I would hate the next so-called Buddy Rich to use one of those.
Now THAT'S funny. Buddy Rich never used double pedals and he would certainly have considered double pedals "cheating." You're avoiding the real issue, which is: You need two pedals to accomplish what Buddy Rich did with one. Cheating indeed.

From the sound of it, you really don't use your double pedals much and I wonder how much you really tried to use The Duallist. This pedal will force you to rethink your entire approach to the drumset, but only if you adjust it correctly and invest the time and effort to learn it. You can't get away with saying it's too easy AND too difficult in the same breath.

I consider double pedals inefficient, clumsy and they preclude full hi-hat use. If a major manufacturer produced The Duallist and "legitimized" it with a huge promotional campaign, they'd have wider acceptance.
Reply With Quote
  #194  
Old 06-14-2006, 07:21 PM
Fat Elvis's Avatar
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 1,452
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

well i certainly dont consider a Dualist cheating, but then again I dont consider it the same as playing a double pedal -- which i dont consider the same as speed with a single pedal (i.e. I could do "good times, bad times" triplets with my double, but not a single -- im sure bonham would be less than impressed with that one as well).

I decided to stick with my DW 5002 Double Pedal and I am glad I did. I found that I was able to start picking up playing double pretty easily (for what i do right now). Triplets and some really cool patterns are not that hard to pick up on -- just takes a bit of practice. I would equate this practice time equal to someone getting used to a beater hit when you lift the pedal. Im SURE that learning to do 16th's on a dualist would be quicker than learning to do it on a traditional double pedal, but i bet learning to do triplets or syncopated patterns would probably take a similar amount of time.
__________________


This is me.

This is what I do.
Reply With Quote
  #195  
Old 06-29-2006, 09:36 PM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,228
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Fat Elvis, these are good observations you make. Some things are easier with the Duallist and some things are harder. What makes the Duallist more accessible is that it immediately puts your right-foot chops to work. I tried double pedals and they seemed clumsy and disorienting and I lost use of the hi hat.

Of course, if someone doesn't have good right-foot chops, The Duallist isn't going to do much for them anyway. It merely allows you to use your existing skills in a different way, without having to learn a whole new skill (left foot bass pedal control).
Reply With Quote
  #196  
Old 10-12-2006, 04:18 AM
atomicsoy's Avatar
atomicsoy atomicsoy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 100
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

hmm... technology... amazed!!! i even dont own a double pedal since im kindda new in drummings. but where i can see it, dualist opens up a new oportunity to explore. now u can have 3 beaters instead of 2. maybe even 4. as in the old days u only can have 1. its tech improvement. tech doesnt neccecary makes u lazy. its like computers speed.

anyway my point is, its not cheating n a great technological enhancement.

peace
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 10-12-2006, 07:27 AM
Supersteve Supersteve is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 873
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Ok I do not get the big deal with being able to play at a blazin fast speed. It is all about the groove of the music. The elusive pocket. Plus what is the fastest tempo you ever need to play anyhow?

Last edited by Supersteve; 10-12-2006 at 07:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 10-12-2006, 07:29 AM
Supersteve Supersteve is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 873
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis
well i certainly dont consider a Dualist cheating, but then again I dont consider it the same as playing a double pedal -- which i dont consider the same as speed with a single pedal (i.e. I could do "good times, bad times" triplets with my double, but not a single -- im sure bonham would be less than impressed with that one as well).

I decided to stick with my DW 5002 Double Pedal and I am glad I did. I found that I was able to start picking up playing double pretty easily (for what i do right now). Triplets and some really cool patterns are not that hard to pick up on -- just takes a bit of practice. I would equate this practice time equal to someone getting used to a beater hit when you lift the pedal. Im SURE that learning to do 16th's on a dualist would be quicker than learning to do it on a traditional double pedal, but i bet learning to do triplets or syncopated patterns would probably take a similar amount of time.
That brings up a interesting question. Would John Bonham have used this petal?
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 10-12-2006, 08:37 AM
defunkt's Avatar
defunkt defunkt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 192
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I really doubt you could actually get as much control with the dualist anyway because to change from double to single you have to click the thing which would be hard at fast tempos
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 10-12-2006, 11:24 AM
altered_beast's Avatar
altered_beast altered_beast is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boston, Lincs, U.K.
Posts: 554
Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersteve
Ok I do not get the big deal with being able to play at a blazin fast speed. It is all about the groove of the music. The elusive pocket. Plus what is the fastest tempo you ever need to play anyhow?
Try to find a groove in black metal. Most of that stuff is pretty fast.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com