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  #81  
Old 11-26-2005, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
no see the double bass pedal incorporates the actual skill of the drummer,they use both legs for the kicks...whereas the duallist is basically an auto bass kick,which is triggered by your right (or left if ur lefty) foot...its hard to explain my point because generally at this time of night my vocabulary extends very seldom past words like "nice" an "cool
No prob, but when you CAN explain yourself let us know, because I would really like to know what you're trying to say...Trust me it takes skill to use the dualist in a creative way...And 2 legs makes things easier than using one leg...
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  #82  
Old 11-26-2005, 06:37 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

To add to what the exactly the dualist can do, here is an example...I would LOVE to see somebody try this with just a double bass pedal...



http://www.edrums.gr/INTERNET%20FILE...ato%20HIGH.wmv
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  #83  
Old 11-26-2005, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

i dont understand how that quituplet pedal in Jason's post (post 15) wold work. There is 5 beaters and 2 pedals so is that just 2 beaters to one pedal and 3 to the orther? But that wont beable any faster. That will just give it a more dampened sound rite?

And i went to that dualist website and watched the songo video. Wats goin on ther wen it show the close up of his bass drum there r 2 beaters cause he has a double kick rite, but then wen it zooms out it shows that he isnt even playing that dbl kick for the main bass drum but istead his left foot is playing on somthin far away on his left, so how is 3 beaters moving independetly work, whith only 2 feet?
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  #84  
Old 11-26-2005, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

and where is this picture of the origanal triple bass drum pedal that htis whole thread is about?
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  #85  
Old 11-26-2005, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

i don't have a picture of it but i have an idea of what might be in the future: here's the advert:

j
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  #86  
Old 11-26-2005, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I had a buddy and we used to call his "quad bass" because he used two dualist on two bassdrums but i do think it is cheating but lets say you got one of your legs cut off i think you should be allowed to use the dualist (well i meant without remorse)
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  #87  
Old 11-26-2005, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

What a great picture Nutha

I love it!!!
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  #88  
Old 11-27-2005, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I'm not really a "gaget" fan either which is what I would consider the Dualist pedal. However, I can appreciate both points of view here.

Who decides where drummers draw the line where purity and musicianship cross over into trickery? Some purists would think that the double base pedal is crossing the line. The first thing that came to mind when I saw it was...hey, that thing allows your foot to pull off the Moeller Technique. :-)

I think where people get upset is when we think in terms of skills comparsion. So, as long as people are not claiming bass drum BPM superiority using this pedal, then I say, have fun. If the tool serves how you want to play your drums then have at it.

Daddy-o
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  #89  
Old 11-27-2005, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin Groover
i dont understand how that quituplet pedal in Jason's post (post 15) wold work. There is 5 beaters and 2 pedals so is that just 2 beaters to one pedal and 3 to the orther? But that wont beable any faster. That will just give it a more dampened sound rite?

And i went to that dualist website and watched the songo video. Wats goin on ther wen it show the close up of his bass drum there r 2 beaters cause he has a double kick rite, but then wen it zooms out it shows that he isnt even playing that dbl kick for the main bass drum but istead his left foot is playing on somthin far away on his left, so how is 3 beaters moving independetly work, whith only 2 feet?
im still very baffeled with this?
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  #90  
Old 11-28-2005, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

i think someone asked for the picture of the actual pedal...

i still cant explain myself mainly cos i honestly dont know the actual way it works...i know the right pedal sets off the extra beater...but still i think we need to know how this badboy actually works...?

i still think the duallist is comparable to a self playing E string on a guitar...

an that video toteman is ridicoulos!!its incredible yeah but holy lord it wud get confusing an honestly whats the point??!
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  #91  
Old 11-28-2005, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I cannot understand this debate. It appears that the "up" stroke is not automatic at all, but occurs with the controlled release of the footboard - the opposite (but equal) motion of a traditional stroke. If that is indeed the case, exactly how is it cheating?
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  #92  
Old 11-28-2005, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
an that video toteman is ridicoulos!!its incredible yeah but holy lord it wud get confusing an honestly whats the point??!
Yeah it's very complex and confusing no doubt, but amazing at the same time...Thats what the dualist brings to the table i guess. I've never sceen anything like that performed before, unless it was programed or done by multiple people at the same time...I see it as an evolution of the instrument when applied in the manner expressed in the video i posted...
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  #93  
Old 11-28-2005, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by da cheese walks
an that video toteman is ridicoulos!!its incredible yeah but holy lord it wud get confusing an honestly whats the point??!
That's what I think about double kick most of the time. I don't see how the Dualist is any worse than a double pedal, despite all the whining here. For all your complaining about "self-playing E strings", guitarists have been using tools like delays and phrase samplers for years, and doing things with them that you quite simply cannot do without.

It's a tool. Get over it!
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  #94  
Old 11-28-2005, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnhiggins
That's what I think about double kick most of the time. I don't see how the Dualist is any worse than a double pedal, despite all the whining here. For all your complaining about "self-playing E strings", guitarists have been using tools like delays and phrase samplers for years, and doing things with them that you quite simply cannot do without.

It's a tool. Get over it!
That's your opinion, and I am willing to respect it. I think that it is at worst cheating and at best an easy way out. And that is my opinion on the matter.
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  #95  
Old 01-20-2006, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Most of you guys seem to think its stupid to use this pedal. In my opinion its one of the best
pedals ever made. I own two duallist double pedals which means that I use four beaters.
These pedals allow you to reach bpms you'd never be able to play with pearl or dw single
pedals for example. By the way: How can you say "It's cheating - I hate it", if you never even
took a closer look at it ? It's made of high-quality materials. I' ve wrecked many other pedals in the past years. After torturing mine for more than six months they still look like they' ve never been used. It' s not all about speed, but again: the duallist allows you to play extremely precise, fast and loud - and that's just what I' ve been searchin' for. Even if you' re not into
Death/Black Metal you' ll find 'em very interesting to play. Don' t just look at the pictures -
buy them. Will take ya days to find out how they work, but it is for sure worth the time.
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  #96  
Old 01-20-2006, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

when all i the knowledge i had about this thing was based on thepictures i've seen, i thought it was cheating

but based on reviews i've read, it actually takes some serious shedding to get the timing on that second stroke ... its apparently happens at a very specific time when you lift the pedal
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  #97  
Old 01-20-2006, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

I have to say that the dualist is gimmicky. I wouldn't use it. But I guess that when the double bass pedal came out people must've thought it was gimmicky as well. I would rather have such sick bass pedal skills that all I would need is a single pedal. Too much work for me though so I stick to my double bass. But the dualist is getting plain lazy. Why not just make a pedal that plays the entire set for you? I'd prefer never to use it.
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  #98  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Negative facts about the duallist:
1. It takes hours to find a setup that suits you
2. The official manuals are totally useless
3. The official video is just a waste of time/money
4. Don' t expect to find any help on the net if you' re too stupid to use 'em

Positive facts:
1. Most drummers do not like them - that' s cool - you can piss people off just by using them
2. You' ll find it quite rewarding to play duallists - even though it's hard work in the first days
3. There' s nothing bad about being creative...
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  #99  
Old 01-21-2006, 02:14 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastbeatz
Most of you guys seem to think its stupid to use this pedal. In my opinion its one of the best
pedals ever made. I own two duallist double pedals which means that I use four beaters.
These pedals allow you to reach bpms you'd never be able to play with pearl or dw single
pedals for example. By the way: How can you say "It's cheating - I hate it", if you never even
took a closer look at it ? It's made of high-quality materials. I' ve wrecked many other pedals in the past years. After torturing mine for more than six months they still look like they' ve never been used. It' s not all about speed, but again: the duallist allows you to play extremely precise, fast and loud - and that's just what I' ve been searchin' for. Even if you' re not into
Death/Black Metal you' ll find 'em very interesting to play. Don' t just look at the pictures -
buy them. Will take ya days to find out how they work, but it is for sure worth the time.

I'm a little confused. Do you mean you're using 2 bassdrums, and 2 "single" dualist pedals?

I can somewhat understand people saying using this device would be "cheating" if you're using it to just play fast patterns that don't require a device such as the dualist. I'm more interested in the fact it allows you to play things that would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE without using a dualist. EX-would be the multi-pedal ostinato video i posted earlier in the thread. If the man was not using a dualist it would be phyisically impossible for him to pull of the ostinato just using double or single pedals. It allows another line of creativity to be expressed wich IMO is groudbreaking.

Just getting the dualist to be able to play as many notes as Tim Waterson does in a minute, or to play doubles like Lang and Virgil defeats the purpose of the dualist.
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  #100  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

If you're not getting Bonham-like doubles and triples out of a single 30-year-old rusty Speed King, then in my opinion, you're all cheating!!!













(yes, I'm kidding)
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  #101  
Old 02-10-2006, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

OK people just to say I own the pedal in question... and... I like it.
However 90% of the time I use it in single mode, it is a very well build pedal delivering a fantastic punch so no problems there...
I used to own a double pedal as for some songs our band does need that sound I cannot get out of a single... I can therefore play double to a good enough standard.. I think ive paid my dues... the dualist allows me to play EXACTLY the same licks. But as people have already said I can still retain control of the hi-hat, especially as im a fan of the constant open/closed sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rich
The dualist "fabricates" twice as many beats. It is cheating. It is not helping your technique or giving you a better feel suited to your needs, it is hitting the skin of the drum when your foot is not playing the stroke. I've used one, and it makes life far too easy.
This is also untrue, it is a matter of leaning a new technique... to fully realise the potential of the pedal you must experiment and learn a completely new technique, for example, this just duplicating beats this is just plain wrong, the second hammer is just as controllable as the main one, just control the foot more and it can be stopped and then used again on the next beat or the main one first again, it can produce some fun licks.

No it is not as good as the "real thing" both in terms of sound (second beater is slower and therefore less powerful) and the options for use are more limited... but also allows more options... I had thought of buying the triple one... not to use all three at the same time, at a guess that would just sound wrong!! But as a "real double pedal" where I donít need the hi-hat, and in double mode where I do, as people have said it is a tool! I use it because it expands my options and makes my music sound better, that is all... for me its not about going as fast as I can, if you do use the pedal to do this, in my opinion, as a fan of the dualist, is that it is a lazy way out, but used as it should it is an essential part of my kit expanding my musical potential

OK Thats me done!!
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  #102  
Old 02-10-2006, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

That's the question I had regarding the 2nd beater--whether or not it is controllable. It's an important distinction, because the control should be in the drummer's foot--above and beyond merely stomping on a lever to activate the 2nd beater. If you have control of the 2nd beater when it's activated, then it makes a big difference in my opinion, like a drummer having control of the sticks to execute single or double-stroke rolls.

I can't really speak to the third beater option, because that is a modification of a double pedal setup, and I just use a single pedal. I also own a double pedal setup (it's in storage now) but I never really used it for speed. I kept a different beater on the secondary (left) pedal to get a different sound, and sometimes I would press the left beater against the head to get a quick muted effect while using the right pedal. Most of the time though, I just used the right pedal. It seems the three-beater Duallist would serve some purpose as a true double pedal, though, while also providing more creative options or flexibility for the drummer.

Last edited by hook & lateral; 02-10-2006 at 03:52 PM.
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  #103  
Old 02-15-2006, 05:44 AM
Drumming4anything Drumming4anything is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

The Duelist Triple, is a joke. The third pedal is only meant for accents which is something with a little practice anyone can do.

The Duelist Double, however, is quite amazing. I also have to add quite useless. The only purpose for it is to allow the left foot to be free to clamp down the hi hat during grooves, but honestly who wants big bursts of double bass during a groove. You would really only want small bursts which with a little practice you can pull off.

I don't have any less respect for people who use a duelist, because to get fast with it you still have to have your right foot resonably fast, and the co-ordination it takes to create complex bass rythems with it just looks confusing to me. As when you press it down, it makes one beat, and when you bring it up it makes another. So in creating some riffs you might be stuck with your foot pressing down on the pedal so as not to add in an extra double.

Overall the duelest is a novelty, nothing more. It is not cheating, rather just another device to use. If I had the money I would probably buy one, just to screw around with. I'm not into death metal and my speed is quite lacking, but for some reason I just feel naked on a drumset without a double kick. I guess that's not a good thing.
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  #104  
Old 02-15-2006, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourstringdrums
Some of the things are just unnecessary, for instance the jazz "technique" http://www.theduallist.com/mmedia/video/jazz.wmv The triplet bass drum pattern sounds too busy and out of place in a jazz context IMO.
Well kudos to this post for actually getting to the real point at hand. It isn't important if it is cheating or not (seriously, you guys who 'worked hard' have a lame argument). The real issue is this thing is a pile of non-musical crap. It's a good noise maker, sure, but not a tool that a musician would want (or even need!).

I sat through all those videos (painful to say the least). The ONLY use for this thing is the example of 16th notes in place of 8ths. Seriously, all the doubled notes just muck everything up.

When would you want this? Pretty much only in hard music. For the occassional blast of running 16ths, it isn't that hard on normal pedals. It seems like you would waste a lot of time trying to learn the duelist technique to get the strokes even.

Here is my gripe:

How can you trust a company that advertises "triplets" and "flams" then procedes to show a video of an 8th note connected to two 16ths ("triplets") and just a big messy blob of fast beats ("flams")????

This pedal limits your musicianship. You can't switch from running 16ths to running 16th note triplets without totally relearning everything (it it is even possible at all)

Hell, the company doesn't even know what a triplet is, so how can they design a pedal to play one?

Think of the dynamics. YOU control how much down force the first beat generates. Unless this thing has microchips in it and robotics, it can't possibly recreate an equal amount of force for the second stroke. You probably have to train yourself to play one volume so that they are generally even.

It looked promising at first, but their own demonstration is their downfall. I guess they have enough uninformed, NON-MUSICIANS playing drums that wouldn't understand... Even the guy who was playing "840 bpm" was less impressive than about 99% of the metal guys now that use regular old double pedals.

And nobody has even mentioned if the pedal is smooth in single pedal mode (or my guess, not smooth).

Hey, but those kits sounded really good in the production vids!
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  #105  
Old 02-15-2006, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumming4anything
The Duelist Triple, is a joke. The third pedal is only meant for accents which is something with a little practice anyone can do.

The Duelist Double, however, is quite amazing.

Well I think you are limited with triplets and 6tuplets on the double, but at least with the triple you could play RRL RRL RRL RRL RRL RRL RRL RRL all day rather easily (Just a R LR LR LR LR shuffle). I'm guessing the introduced the triple to address the fault of the double and it's horrible adaptation to anything not subdivided by 2.

With the duelist double, I guess the only way to do a real triplet (unlike their non-triplet demo) would be DUD UDU DUD UDU, but who thinks in Up and Down when playing a pedal? And god forbid if you end on a down beat, because you are gonna get the upbeat weather you want it or not (as soon as you lift your foot).

This is the main problem with this contraption.

Oh and yeah, before you guys say it, no I haven't used it, but I saw enough on their own promotional videos to smell a skunk.
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  #106  
Old 02-18-2006, 03:58 AM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

i know that there was a thread kicking around about this pedal, but i couldn't locate it. anyway.... i decided to buy a new kick drum pedal and was looking between axis longboards and the duallist. i tend to like quirky (read: gimmicky) things so i figured i'd give the duallist a spin on musiciansfriends dime (45 day satisfaction guarantee woo-hoo). needless to say after 2 days of playing around with this thing it is going back and i'm getting my axis pedals.

talk about useless crap....this pedal has absolutly nothing going for in it. after playing with spring tensions, strap lengths, etc. i got it to a point where it functioned OK as a single pedal (my iron cobra jr's have better response than this $300 behemoth), but then you kick it into double mode.....

in double mode your downstroke produces a note and then your upstroke produces a note. but on the downward strike you're actually fighting both beaters springs. even with the beater springs fairly loose, i found it a chore to hit the head of my kick with enough force to trigger it. then on the upward stroke both springs are pulling with you so that your foot practically flys off the footboard. it's such an unwieldy action that it's actually quite difficult to play 16th notes at all. usually you miss your downstroke unless your really stomping it. theres nothing smooth about it. very jerky. i found that you can use the pedals upward momentum to bounce it back down, kinda like a basketball, but this only seems to work at one particular speed (about 140 bpm). other than that its too slow (no momentum, you struggle to get the pedal back down and then have to control the upstroke speed) or too fast (missed downstrokes). for doing things other than 16th notes its hit or miss. it seems like with a couple weeks of practice i would be able to do consistant triplets, shuffles, maybe even 16ths at different bpm (doubtful) but it just doesnt seem worth the time or the effort when a good double could do it so much better.

last thing, the pedal just feels cheap. its made out of some dupont polymer thats supposed to be stronger than steel, but it's extremly light and just seems to jump from all the torque produced by the springs rebounding at the same time. and the thing is huge. i didnt bother to measure, but it's a bit of a stretch to go between the two switches that change from single to double mode (and the single mode switch you have to stomp the s#!t out of to disengage the second pedal). anyway, just a word of caution to anyone who was wondering about this pedal. it's not as magical as all the demo videos on the website make it out to be. i'd say just stick with a traditional double bass pedal.> quote from another forum....
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  #107  
Old 02-18-2006, 04:46 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

hey "bigbang", what do yout think you are doing? i posted that on another website and you're stealing my post? at least give credit where credit is due if you are going to post other peoples stuff.

heres my original post http://edrumming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2574
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  #108  
Old 02-18-2006, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Ok, that was really weird.

Thanks for posting that Brokenhalo (kinda). That was the kind of response this thread needed 4 pages ago. Someone who knows what they are talking about and explained the shortcomings very well!

Too bad your first post on here was to call out a plagiarist. ;-)
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  #109  
Old 02-18-2006, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Finally, a post that actually answers the questions I had about the pedal instead of the old "you guys are cheating" harangue. Very much appreciated, thanks.
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  #110  
Old 02-18-2006, 07:49 PM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

it say's on the bottom it's from another forum....I guess you guy's just read what you want
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  #111  
Old 02-19-2006, 12:52 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
Ok, that was really weird.

Thanks for posting that Brokenhalo (kinda). That was the kind of response this thread needed 4 pages ago. Someone who knows what they are talking about and explained the shortcomings very well!

Too bad your first post on here was to call out a plagiarist. ;-)
a member of this forum just joined our electronic drumming forum and i decided to stop in and see how things were going regarding e's on your site. i used to lurk here until i found edrumming and i've pretty much stayed there ever since. i checked into this thread and was just stunned to see my post up here without any sort of credit. at least bigbang put that he found it somewhere else at the end of his reply. you should of read my original reply (when i thought i was just being ripped off)!

anyway, water under the bridge. i think i might start posting here. it is a nice forum, after all, and you guys could really use some help with your e-knowledge :-).

would the admins have a problem if i put a link to the edrumming site in my signature? i'm not here to steal people away, i just think more people should know that theres a dedicated board full of very knowledgable e-drummers out there.
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  #112  
Old 02-19-2006, 02:10 AM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhalo
a member of this forum just joined our electronic drumming forum and i decided to stop in and see how things were going regarding e's on your site. i used to lurk here until i found edrumming and i've pretty much stayed there ever since. i checked into this thread and was just stunned to see my post up here without any sort of credit. at least bigbang put that he found it somewhere else at the end of his reply. you should of read my original reply (when i thought i was just being ripped off)!

anyway, water under the bridge. i think i might start posting here. it is a nice forum, after all, and you guys could really use some help with your e-knowledge :-).

would the admins have a problem if i put a link to the edrumming site in my signature? i'm not here to steal people away, i just think more people should know that theres a dedicated board full of very knowledgable e-drummers out there.
here's the deal.....I was bouncing around forums in the office of a studio I am at when I noticed the two forums with the same thread going . Your post explained the pedal better where as this thread was just ragging on it.So I just quickly coppied it and put it here with hopes that it would help the guys here. I don't have that much time where I can write a long post or spend all day on a computer like some people. Believe me I would never use or admit to using a duelist..lol.As you can see this forum is full of people who read half of a post and then run their mouths.(stu strib)

Last edited by bigbang; 04-08-2006 at 07:50 AM.
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  #113  
Old 02-19-2006, 02:17 AM
brokenhalo brokenhalo is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

its cool bro. no big deal. it would of been better if youd put a link showing where the post came from, but its all been cleared up. honestly, i'm happy that more people will be able to see that review and benefit from it.
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  #114  
Old 02-19-2006, 02:18 AM
bigbang bigbang is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

cool dude and welcome aboard
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  #115  
Old 02-19-2006, 10:42 AM
Stu_Strib
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhalo
would the admins have a problem if i put a link to the edrumming site in my signature?
DogBreath does it himself all the time, so no problem I assume.
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  #116  
Old 02-19-2006, 10:51 AM
skyfish skyfish is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

That's it, I'm gonna start using an egg beater on the ride cymbal !!!! lol
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  #117  
Old 02-19-2006, 04:01 PM
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DogBreath DogBreath is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenhalo
would the admins have a problem if i put a link to the edrumming site in my signature?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu_Strib
DogBreath does it himself all the time, so no problem I assume.
I put links to other drum forums in my signature all the time? That's news to me.
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  #118  
Old 02-19-2006, 05:57 PM
Stu_Strib
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBreath
I put links to other drum forums in my signature all the time? That's news to me.
Not in your signature per se, but in your posts. It is obvious though, that Bernhard doesn't mind external links, because of the spirit of his website is to encourage all things drummings (and it doesn't hurt to buy a dvd from here or pitch in to the pay pal contributions).
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  #119  
Old 03-11-2006, 10:57 PM
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AvengedDrummer AvengedDrummer is offline
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

You know what id do? get a dualist, slap it on a cowbell mount. Just imagine! double cowbell solos!
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  #120  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:25 PM
Stu_Strib
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Default Re: the Dualist debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvengedDrummer
You know what id do? get a dualist, slap it on a cowbell mount. Just imagine! double cowbell solos!

That wouldn't be any more annoying than how it is currently employed!
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