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  #41  
Old 08-16-2005, 04:45 AM
Damon Dapper Damon Dapper is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Triplepedals are a turn off to me, its like cheating your way through. Why not make a machine to give you a third drumstick while your at it.

Those pedals are for those who need a machine to help them achieve something other serious Drummers do with some practice on double pedals.

Triplepedals.

What a joke!

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  #42  
Old 08-25-2005, 08:35 AM
DTHdrummer DTHdrummer is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

When I first seen the triple kick pedal in my Musician's Friend magazine, my initial reaction was "Are you serious?" not "I have to have this!". I do consider this to be a level of cheating but nothing crazy. I'm interested in trying to out to see how it works but I'm for sure keeping the tradition double bass over the triple kick. Sure you have to practice your chops more, but isn't that what drumming is all about.
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2005, 10:14 PM
Guiat0001
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

All those that dont like this pedal your wrong for hating it its actually a really good in the normal double bass too !! the triple is just for funnn !!!!! which is what music is about loosers ! and the only reason you mokking it is coz you dont have the money to just go out n buy it sooo:p

anyway i have this pedal and to be honest its easier to use it in the normal double bass way ?? but its really fun honest !
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  #44  
Old 09-16-2005, 06:35 AM
SamPT
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Well, I must say I agree with finnhiggins. It's not about cheating or not, it's just if it sounds good to you and if you're enjoying what you're doing.
I've started playing 10 years ago with a hardcore band, and I naturally evolved to a double kick pedal, but I soon got stuck with a style I wasn't linking at all. So the first thing I did was dropping the double kick pedal and bought a single one again, because I get more fun playing a single kick and I don't like getting addicted to double kick (and I didn't forget I had a hi hat pedal too!). Above all, I think I should get pleasure from playing drums (and if possible, pleasure for who is listening to me too), and I don't care for competitions...
Nowadays I play trip hop, and despite being much slower than what I used to play ten years before, I think I get more pleasure out of it (specially hearing it afterwards!).
So whether if you like dualist, double or single kick, don't say you're better or worse than everyone else... Think of it much like people are deifferent and enjoy different things...

Well, sorry about the lecture (and my rusty english). :)
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2005, 07:12 AM
CartersChops CartersChops is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Well, as far as metal drumming is concerned, it is almost a pasttime to see how fast the drummer's feet can go. It is an honorable thing as a metal durmmer to be at the highest speed possible. In that case, the dualist is a disgrace. i do think however in any other form of music, where steady stream of double bass is not needed, it's fine and can add creative touch to claves, triplets, etc.. When in a studio its about sound not how you make it. A drummer never showcases his feet outside of metal drumming really, so the duallist would possibly be acceptable, however i would never use one, out of pure shame :)
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  #46  
Old 09-17-2005, 10:47 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guiat0001
All those that dont like this pedal your wrong for hating it its actually a really good in the normal double bass too !! the triple is just for funnn !!!!! which is what music is about loosers ! and the only reason you mokking it is coz you dont have the money to just go out n buy it sooo:p

anyway i have this pedal and to be honest its easier to use it in the normal double bass way ?? but its really fun honest !
Pretty heavy for a first post...

As for what Finn said about using the double AND hi-hat at the same time; it's a pretty easy thing to do. I used to do it when I actually used my double pedal; which is currently being used only as a single. It took a little while to get used to, but it worked ok. Just looked a bit strange having your size 9's over two different footboards.
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2005, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I'm for anything that can further the possibilities of what a drummer can do. This whole "cheating" thing seems elitist and close minded. What's the harm in further expanding someone's sound? The Dualist triple kick or the single dualist is just another weapon in our sonic arsenal as far as I'm concerned.
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2005, 12:04 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Personally, I'm a bit against it; but that's just an attitude I can't stop. What does annoy me slightly is that there is a drummer where I live who says he has great double chops; and when you listen to record, he does have some good chops.

But he's using a duallist. One gig, he reportedly had a 'normal' double pedal and he couldn't play it, it was messing up his chops. Now I'm all for technical innovation, but if it prevents you from being able to play something then I think there is an argument to say that it could be a bad thing.

I think we should be able to play all different types of pedal. For instance, if we were to work up both our feet to a level where we were reasonable with a double pedal and then get a duallist, I wouldn't be so anti, and yes, it does add a fresh level of possibilities; which when used appropriately could be considered musical.

But if it makes you technically deficient in an area in which you would otherwise be superior, then I think that it could be deemed a bad thing. If you can't use your left foot, then what would the point in having a duallist be? Assuming the whole point of a duallist is to be able to play your left foot on the hi-hat. See where I'm going?
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  #49  
Old 09-18-2005, 05:42 AM
PearlDrummer014 PearlDrummer014 is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

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  #50  
Old 10-02-2005, 12:13 AM
Bad Drummer Bad Drummer is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JW89
personally i hate the dualist, i dont care if you use one, but if your going to use one, dont expect to get as much credit as guys who use regular double pedals hence single pedals, and dont get cocky about how fast u can get with a dualist (lars ulrich), cuz its easy as hell to get speed with dualists. we dont care if u can play just as fast as we can with a dualist, because your not, ur feet arent moving as fast as are feet, ure just getting a faster sound and being lazy at the same time.isnt technology great?! haha jk, next thing you know, there gonna be making sticks that branch off into 2 ends so u can can play faster, lmao... if u wanna get fast, take the time and practice to get fast. dont get a dualist and cheat at it.
I have actually seen that. It was a performer on the street at bumbershoot (Seattle music festival). I wasn't sure if he made them himself, because I didn't get a look at the middle (to see if they crossed or were attached together somehow, or if they branched out).

I've been playing drums for about 11 months. I'm actually going to buy one now because of you saying that. Seriously, I am thinking about getting one, but it seems that it would be too constricting because you have to switch between double and single, and the way I would like to use a double pedal would call for a lot of variations between singles and doubles.

Last edited by DogBreath; 10-02-2005 at 05:40 AM.
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  #51  
Old 10-02-2005, 12:59 AM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I went and got an early Christmas present today, along with a hi-hat jingle I got a DW 5000 single pedal. I've decided that I'd rather have an excellent right foot than two mediocre feet. I'm for the Duallist if your left foot can still use the hi-hat, but using it as a reason to not develop your left foot is a bit of a cop out IMO.
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2005, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat
As for what Finn said about using the double AND hi-hat at the same time; it's a pretty easy thing to do. I used to do it when I actually used my double pedal; which is currently being used only as a single. It took a little while to get used to, but it worked ok. Just looked a bit strange having your size 9's over two different footboards.
Heh, coming back to this very late... Although you can get *some* degree of hi-hat control by cross-stepping, there's no doubt you do lose some expressive capability by having the left foot shared over two pedals. You can't easily control "sloshyness percentage" while playing half-open hi-hats very well, because the movement of the other end of your foot tends to cause you to move about a little. Likewise for playing things like splashes where you splash and then leave the hats half-closed for quicker decay and more sizzle.

So if you're the kind of person who does that stuff and wants to keep doing it while playing a lot of bass drum (can't exactly see why - they seem somewhat opposed in terms of playing style - but maybe some genius can make it work) then a Duallist would be an invaluable tool to help achieve that. Opening new doors, all that malarky.
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  #53  
Old 10-02-2005, 12:41 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

And I agree with you, there are situations where one of those pedals would be applicable. For my money though; I'd personally go with the Sonor Dual action pedal Thomas Lang uses/has used.
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  #54  
Old 10-24-2005, 09:55 PM
h3lli0N h3lli0N is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

the dualist pedals. fun to play with, but you don't get as much credit. i think it would be fun to have (as a toy), but never to use at a drumoff or something. imagine you being at a drumoff. there is one dude using IC (me) he is amazing.lol now there is another dude (cheater) using the dualist. who would you vote for?

besides it is kind of cheating because you have two hands (sticks) and two feet (pedals), right? the sticks are your hands the pedals are your feet. you don't have three feet. besides its possible to reach those speeds with two feet anyways. and you gain way more skill and props doing it the oldschool way.

p.s.- i would buy it though, just to have fun.
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  #55  
Old 11-22-2005, 10:17 PM
dasilvs dasilvs is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

IT IS NOT CHEATING PEOPLE!

Go to JoJo Mayer's page and watch him use upstrokes with his hands and feet. That is all the Deallist is exploiting, the fact that one can achieve multiple sounds with one single stroke. What's the harm in that, HATERS? Along those lines, Thomas Lang hits his cymbals both on the way UP and the way DOWN. That is ALL the duallist does, allowing for the upstrokes to be heard. There is simply no way conceivable to perceive the duallist as a cheater's way for speed. It is a revolutionary piece of technology that does require adaptation and practice and should merit respect from any musician, drummer or otherwise.

Listen, bottom line is that it allows average drummers to expand their drumming combinations, as well as advanced drummers. You can still use the duiallist and have respect from your fellow drummers, trust me. Granted, if you're a speed death metal drummer looking for a way to play 32nd note double bass drum rolls, and you resort to the duallist as a quick and dirty way, that can be somewhat perceived as a shortcut. But it's not cheating, people. For drummers like me, who play many styles and genres and are looking to expand polyrhythmically, this is PERFECT. It seems that the pedal can also improve your single pedal foot action by forcing you to be aware of your upstrokes, even in single pedal mode. So it can benefit the normal single pedal drummer by forcing him to be aware of his single pedal stroke. It also gives him th option to add flams, triplets, or any other combination with his feet while still maintaining his left foot, which can use the high hat, cowbell, clave, tambourine, etc. It also seems that only VERY VERY ADVANCED DRUMMERS like Lang can pull off playing more than 2 pedals simultaneously, the average joe CANNOT do that. Unless he has the duallist...

Look, this pedal offers drummers a well-contructed, durable single pedal with a painless, relatively manageable method for using double pedal action. If anything it seems like a good investment for a single pedal, let alone for two. And what would happpen should one of the beaters break or malfunction? The show ain't over, cuz you got the second one right there....

I think it's worth the investment, and I just may get it and try it out just to prove to you all that it's something EVERY drummer should experience and THEN decide for themselves.

AND STOP TURNING THIS INTO A VENDETTA OR SPITEFUL COMPETITION! We are all here for the music, the sound, the creativity. Not the hate...appreciate each other's skills and technological advances, and whether you choose to use them or not is up to you, just don't call people cheaters when they're simply being creative or innovative.

PEACE!
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  #56  
Old 11-23-2005, 12:33 PM
the rich the rich is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

IT IS CHEATING!

The pedal is playing extra strokes for you! What you hear -while this pedal is on "double"- is NOT what the drummer is playing. It is HALF of what he/she is playing. Therefore it is cheating.

Drumming in essence is about keeping time by using your hands and feet to keep time. YOU hit the drums. No matter how much the gear advances, YOU play the kit, you play every stroke. You don't have a pedal actually hitting strokes for you. It is absurd to say that this is not cheating, it blatantly is.

I think there are alot of guys on here -and in this thread apparently- who can't get to grips with a real double kick and are looking for an easy way out. You won't get any respect from any good drummer using this kick pedal. It's a joke to think that you are playing double kick with it, because you are not. You are playing single and the pedal is doing everything else for you.

I've spent alot of time working on my double kick -the proper way- and I am pleased to say that I can do all the kick patterns in those demonstration videos somebody linked up previously in the thread (ofcourse you sacrifice hi-hat patterns, but that is the way of it). Working on the complex rhythms over the top takes practice. That is where the satisfaction comes from.

It pisses me off that I've taken so much time workin with a real double kick and somebody is going to come along and let a piece of gear do all the hard work and then have the audacity to claim it is NOT "cheating". It is, get with the program.

Hey, while we are at it, why don't we invent something that plays half of our snare work as well? A drummer must play all his/her own strokes, YOU keep the beat, not the gear.

P.S. Comparing this pedal to somebody playing upstrokes on their cymbals is ridiculous, upstrokes or not, the drummer hits the drum/cymbal/pedal, he/she doesn't have any piece of fancy gear doing it for them!!!

Last edited by the rich; 11-23-2005 at 12:47 PM.
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  #57  
Old 11-23-2005, 02:10 PM
mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Calm down guys, it appears that this thread has caused some polarisation. It's just drums, not World War Three.

Right, I will re-itterate what I said earlier. I think that in the case of some situations, the pedal can be useful if used correctly. If you want to play hi-hat patterns and double kick patterns and you have the independence to do so and you haven't neglected your left foot, I think the Duallist is a good thing.

However, as an easy way out to play double bass without developing your left foot, then well I disapprove of such use.
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  #58  
Old 11-23-2005, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

It seems to me this thread has morphed into a cheat or not cheating issue. I have just recently begun using a double pedal and although the dualist is now available I will not use it only because right now I enjoy the work being applied to my double pedal efforts. Since music is a form of artistic self expression if I did choose to use the dualist because I wanted to refocus my efforts on some other aspect of drumming I donít think I should be condemned for doing so. Now if at the end of a gig Iím sitting down bragging about how fast my feet are (dualist) then I deserves to be punched right in the (dualist). But if I create a drum piece using the dualist and it sounds good for that particular song then more power to me for expressing myself with my instrument. Just my 2 cents.
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  #59  
Old 11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rich
IT IS CHEATING!

The pedal is playing extra strokes for you! What you hear -while this pedal is on "double"- is NOT what the drummer is playing. It is HALF of what he/she is playing. Therefore it is cheating.

Drumming in essence is about keeping time by using your hands and feet to keep time. YOU hit the drums. No matter how much the gear advances, YOU play the kit, you play every stroke. You don't have a pedal actually hitting strokes for you. It is absurd to say that this is not cheating, it blatantly is.

I think there are alot of guys on here -and in this thread apparently- who can't get to grips with a real double kick and are looking for an easy way out. You won't get any respect from any good drummer using this kick pedal. It's a joke to think that you are playing double kick with it, because you are not. You are playing single and the pedal is doing everything else for you.

I've spent alot of time working on my double kick -the proper way- and I am pleased to say that I can do all the kick patterns in those demonstration videos somebody linked up previously in the thread (ofcourse you sacrifice hi-hat patterns, but that is the way of it). Working on the complex rhythms over the top takes practice. That is where the satisfaction comes from.

It pisses me off that I've taken so much time workin with a real double kick and somebody is going to come along and let a piece of gear do all the hard work and then have the audacity to claim it is NOT "cheating". It is, get with the program.

Hey, while we are at it, why don't we invent something that plays half of our snare work as well? A drummer must play all his/her own strokes, YOU keep the beat, not the gear.

P.S. Comparing this pedal to somebody playing upstrokes on their cymbals is ridiculous, upstrokes or not, the drummer hits the drum/cymbal/pedal, he/she doesn't have any piece of fancy gear doing it for them!!!
It isn't cheating big guy. It is a simpler way to play double bass yet only doing half the work, not being lazy. As long as you don't say "Oh well, i have a faster double bass" when you use a dualist it isn't that big of a thing. People need to stop bickering over if it is or isn't cheating, because it is out there and people can use it, and if they do, what are you going to do about it? You know they are using it and it sounds faster, but you know yourself you can go a bit slower but the genuine way. Its all perfernce in my opinion, since some bands need that kind of speed on the bass.
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  #60  
Old 11-23-2005, 05:48 PM
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NUTHA JASON NUTHA JASON is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

i don't like dualists BUT i must concede this point:
Quote:
That is all the Deallist is exploiting, the fact that one can achieve multiple sounds with one single stroke.
if you think about it a vibraslap is a way of playing a quick succession of sounds from one stroke so why is a bass any different.
now two bass drums with two dualists would be pretty impressive. but i still just don't like the look and feel of the pedal.
however i have changed my mind since trying one out. people who play them, and play them well, have my respect.

j
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  #61  
Old 11-23-2005, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Tired of that double kick sound? Well, VRUK it!

*VRUK isn't cheating either... well, I can't even be sure it's working either...


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  #62  
Old 11-23-2005, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

i got a vruk but playing it properly is so different an approach to my own bass drum technique, and i'm also trying to learn other more important things, that i have decided to sell it on ebay (in a month's time). i know it works and can see how it works but i don't want to waste time on learning how to work it properly.

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  #63  
Old 11-23-2005, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I know I might sound dumb, but whats a VRUK?
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  #64  
Old 11-23-2005, 07:12 PM
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NUTHA JASON NUTHA JASON is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

that thing in thinshells last post. you clamp the narrow but hafway down you pedal board so the lobe side is resting on the carpet behind the pedal. it effectively makes the board longer by half plus it has a rubber spring under the lobe side which collapses in a brilliant bit of engineering that means basically when you kick down and slightly forward with your heel the pedal board gets pushed down and the beater hits the head and so you can play heel toe method more efficiently.
but my description is loose. best to have a look at this site, particularly the videos
http://www.vrukpedal.com/
j
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  #65  
Old 11-23-2005, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rich
IT IS CHEATING!

The pedal is playing extra strokes for you! What you hear -while this pedal is on "double"- is NOT what the drummer is playing. It is HALF of what he/she is playing. Therefore it is cheating.

Drumming in essence is about keeping time by using your hands and feet to keep time. YOU hit the drums. No matter how much the gear advances, YOU play the kit, you play every stroke. You don't have a pedal actually hitting strokes for you. It is absurd to say that this is not cheating, it blatantly is.
Ahem. So you're cheating by using a pedal at all, then? After all, the beater is making a horizontal movement while your leg is just making an EASIER, CHEATING vertical one. I suppose with enough practice and some beaters tied to your shoes you could train yourself to do it all without a pedal. We'll just stand back here and laugh, though.

Drumming has, through the history of the instrument, been both an evolution of playing techniques and engineering developments which enable the development of new playing techniques. Without the hi-hat stand we'd have no hi-hats, without the remote hi-hat stand and remote pedal it'd be impossible for Terry Bozzio to play like he does.

This is another development. The thing is, you seem to just see it as an easier way to play things that have already been done - missing the point that, as with any of these developments, with a little time there could well be another amazing drummer who comes along and takes drumming to an entirely new level which would be totally impossible without this piece of gear.

Quote:
I think there are alot of guys on here -and in this thread apparently- who can't get to grips with a real double kick and are looking for an easy way out. You won't get any respect from any good drummer using this kick pedal.
Not wanting to be a dick, but I'm a reasonably good drummer. People can have my respect for using this pedal, if they're using it well and musically. Similarly, amazing double-kick players can have my respect for their speed but I may not respect what they do with it. You earn respect many ways, how fast your feet move is the least of them.

If your only criteria for evaluating drummers is their foot speed... then yeah, maybe this piece of gear is damaging to your world view. But for the rest of us, whether somebody is using a Duallist or playing the strokes themselves isn't going to make the slightest difference to our perception of whether the parts are good, solid, grooving, appropriate and original.

Quote:
Hey, while we are at it, why don't we invent something that plays half of our snare work as well? A drummer must play all his/her own strokes, YOU keep the beat, not the gear.
Somebody did invent that. It's called the Freehand Technique, and it's an off-the-rim one-handed roll. My guess is that it will take about as much time to get to grips with as the Dualist.

Is that cheating too?
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  #66  
Old 11-23-2005, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Somebody did invent that. It's called the Freehand Technique, and it's an off-the-rim one-handed
actually someone even invented a device. i saw it in MD a few years ago and laughed. its a drumstick with two tips. one monted with a rubber spring so that it would hit the skin after the primary stick hits it.. ha ha. kind of like a slapstick.

i wonder if guitarists had this kind of argument when the delay pedal first came out.
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  #67  
Old 11-23-2005, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
actually someone even invented a device. i saw it in MD a few years ago and laughed. its a drumstick with two tips. one monted with a rubber spring so that it would hit the skin after the primary stick hits it.. ha ha. kind of like a slapstick.

i wonder if guitarists had this kind of argument when the delay pedal first came out.
j
I remember seeing ads for that. What a joke.

I think the Dualist is cheating, because alot of the things that they show the drummers doing in the video, you can do without this pedal if you learn the right technique and practice it. Some of the things are just unnecessary, for instance the jazz "technique" http://www.theduallist.com/mmedia/video/jazz.wmv The triplet bass drum pattern sounds too busy and out of place in a jazz context IMO.
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  #68  
Old 11-23-2005, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourstringdrums
I remember seeing ads for that. What a joke.

I think the Dualist is cheating, because alot of the things that they show the drummers doing in the video, you can do without this pedal if you learn the right technique and practice it.
That just means the demonstrations are showing people cheating, rather than something inherant in the pedal itself.

The pedal is a tool. If you get good at using it you could play multi-pedal ostinatos with the left foot, fast bass drum patterns with the right and other stuff over the top with the hands.

The best arguments I've heard against the pedal so far are:

* Uneven strokes
* Difficult to control your phrasing because of the whole stroke on down/stroke on up nature of the thing.

But beyond that, if somebody makes a pedal which makes double-kick accessible with one foot then it's in no way cheating anymore than the hi-hat stand is cheating or indeed using a pedal at all is cheating.

It's just a tool.
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  #69  
Old 11-23-2005, 09:49 PM
the rich the rich is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
"But beyond that, if somebody makes a pedal which makes double-kick accessible with one foot then it's in no way cheating anymore than the hi-hat stand is cheating or indeed using a pedal at all is cheating."
What are you talking about? You still play the kick pedal and the hi-hat. You make the strokes, not the pedal. The dualist "fabricates" twice as many beats. It is cheating. It is not helping your technique or giving you a better feel suited to your needs, it is hitting the skin of the drum when your foot is not playing the stroke. I've used one, and it makes life far too easy.

I use my double kick for 16ths, triplets and short, sharp bursts which are impossible to do (atleast consistently) with a single kick. I consider using a dualist cheating, as what I do with a double kick is still difficult to nail in the live setting, even with practice, but that is where the satisfaction comes from. Try it.
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  #70  
Old 11-24-2005, 11:56 AM
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finnhiggins finnhiggins is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rich
What are you talking about? You still play the kick pedal and the hi-hat. You make the strokes, not the pedal. The dualist "fabricates" twice as many beats. It is cheating. It is not helping your technique or giving you a better feel suited to your needs, it is hitting the skin of the drum when your foot is not playing the stroke. I've used one, and it makes life far too easy.

I use my double kick for 16ths, triplets and short, sharp bursts which are impossible to do (atleast consistently) with a single kick. I consider using a dualist cheating, as what I do with a double kick is still difficult to nail in the live setting, even with practice, but that is where the satisfaction comes from. Try it.
I have. Double pedal bored me rigid - too much wasted time for too little musical result in 95% of what I play. Considering most of my work is either covers (very little of which has any double kick), fairly straight-ahead rock music (which doesn't require it), quiet singer-songwriter stuff (where you'd get fired for using it) or jazz (where, again, it's certainly not a requirement) I biffed it out in favour of spending more time studying new styles of music.

You're still missing the point here. Playing your bass drum pedal is easier than kicking the drum, no? Because making a vertical "stomp" is easier for your legs than swinging them at the drum directly and kicking it. But you consider that "Not cheating".

When you play something like a Dualist then you get a note on the downstroke and another on the upstroke. That's basically the equivilent of doing something like what Johnny Rabb does on with his hands with the freehand technique, and just go watch some of the Meinl videos of him to see all the possibilities this opens up for him. Yes, it's cheating - he's not playing very stroke with his hand. He's getting a bonus second stroke when he lifts, by dint of using the rims.

That's a tool. If it can be applied musically then it opens up new possibilities. For example, if you have a double Dualist pedal you could tune your bass drum very open, leave your left foot on it like a hi-hat pedal and use it to play open and closed sounds while still playing constant 16ths with the right foot. You quite simply cannot do that with a double pedal - it's impossible.

Once a piece of gear opens up new possibilities on the instrument it stops being "cheating" - even if it makes some older things easier. It raises the bar, and opens up new musical ideas that would not be possible without that piece of equipment.

If you can't get over the fact that it might give somebody the ability to sound like you with less effort.. well... get over yourself and have some original ideas! Then you won't need to watch your tail all the time for those damn cheaters, will you?
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  #71  
Old 11-24-2005, 12:17 PM
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JT1 JT1 is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I read through this thread and had to comment.
I can understand why people think that using the
triple kick is cheating but it is correct what Finnhiggins is saying.
You can achieve results with the triple kick that you simply can't
achieve with a double and think of this, you are saying that
it is not practicing double bass the correct way, "what is the
correct way?" the triple kick has a left controled pedal and the
main pedal can be switched to a single so how is that not
practicing double bass the correct way? After all the dualist is a drumming
tool and aren't tools meant to make life easier?

Besides i bet if a drummer that you really admired went out and
got one, all of you would want one!

JT
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  #72  
Old 11-24-2005, 07:12 PM
dasilvs dasilvs is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

thank you all for making my point for me. all of you who think the duallist is "cheating":

1. probly never tried it
2. are upset and envious that all the time they spent learning with two feet someone else can attempt with one foot
3. are not complying with and embracing progress and evolution of music and technology

without the advances made in the modern drusmet, you wouldn't be able to even play double bass. like someone said in an earlier thread, "So you're cheating by using a pedal at all, then? After all, the beater is making a horizontal movement while your leg is just making an EASIER, CHEATING vertical one. I suppose with enough practice and some beaters tied to your shoes you could train yourself to do it all without a pedal. We'll just stand back here and laugh, though."

so there.

it really isnt an issue of cheating people. its a matter of TASTE and STYLE. obviously there are those out there who are steadfast in the traditional approach, while others are trying to embrace the advances in technology to keep exploring more styles and patterns of music, trying to REINVENT themselves. this pedal opens up the possibilities of a modern drummer's repertoire, allowing them to further create individual limb independence without sacrificing sound. doesn't that sound appealing to any of you haters out there? remember, you can still use the duallist as a normal double pedal anyway, without activating the extra pedals.

look, obviosly the duallist cannot take the place of a double pedal. there are just certain things that only a double pedal technique can produce. but the duallist offers the player the option of playing single or double WITHOUT HAVING TO THINK ABOUT A SEPARATE PEDAL.

PLUS, THIS PEDAL TAKES TIME AND PRACTICE TO LEARN AND DEVELOP, JUST LIKE A DOUBLE PEDAL. i guarantee to all you advanced double pedal big mouths out there that you would NOT be able to sit down and play one of these pedals and recreate the sounds from your two pedals. this is a serious tool to learn and use just like any other part of the drumset. if you cant respect those who play with it, then you don't get it. people are not buying this pedal as a double ledap replacement, just as an alternative.

just my two cents....im gonna try one out myself and maybe show yall how i plan to use it...make up your own mind about the pedal, i think it's a great piece of equipment.
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  #73  
Old 11-24-2005, 11:43 PM
Leadfoot Leadfoot is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Well, this has been some entertaining reading. To the mods, for what it's worth, I did a search for this topic, although I did it manually and somehow missed this thread, sorry, maybe I should clean the crud off my screen, I'll use the search link from here on.
All this talk of "cheating" is very reminiscent of years past, I've been drumming for 30 years now.
Years ago, I decided to go to 2 bass drums, my peers & instructor all accused me of cheating or taking the lazy road to achieve what some of them could actually do with one foot. Years down the road, the double pedal came into production, I was the first on the proverbial block to get one. My peers accused me of being too lazy to carry & tune an extra drum. I told them "if you want to carry around all that extra lumber, & tune another drum & buy extra heads, then knock yourself out."
Now there is an innovative piece of equipment available to make things yet a little easier, & of coarse, there are people crying foul. I say if some kid can do what I can do, or more, using less gear & less effort, I say more power to him.
There is something to be said about working smarter, not harder, at least in some instances. I doubt that I'll be getting one, but no doubt there are plenty who will, & one of them may take my gig away sometime in the future. If he does, I guess he worked for it, no matter how hard, the end result is the same.
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  #74  
Old 11-25-2005, 01:58 PM
the rich the rich is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I really, really disagree...

I have used a dualist. I think it is funny that somebody who admits he hasn't used one is judging that I have not. Talk about an assumption. I worked in a music shop for quite some time, in charge of the drum department and a dualist came in for repair (strap had snapped). I had a shot of it and it makes things way too easy that I've been practicing for years on my double kick. That said, you can employ more feel/dynamics with a double kick IMO.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think a drummer should play every stroke and not have a piece of gear playing half of them for him/her. And that is the bottom line for me. Drumming is not supposed to be easy.
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  #75  
Old 11-25-2005, 02:09 PM
the rich the rich is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

I should say that I probably tried a Dualist long before most of you. The company is based in Scotland (where I live), and so the reps were at various Scottish music stores shopping the pedal long before it ever hit the USA or anywhere else.

So I guess, I can appreciate the innovative design of this pedal and the fact that it allows you to play your hi-hat properly, but I really don't like the idea of a pedal playing extra strokes for the drummer.

I apologise if I came across too strongly btw.
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  #76  
Old 11-26-2005, 12:57 AM
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toteman2 toteman2 is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Those of you who regaurd the Dualist as "cheating" should actully find out just what the pedal can do...The demos I've sceen for it are not for adding speed or more notes in general, but it allows you to perform multi pedal ostinatos that would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE to play with just a single or double bass pedals...Now I have NO desire to ever purchase one, but i think alot of people are just ignorant about the product...Some of the demos I've sceen are mindboggling...
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  #77  
Old 11-26-2005, 02:58 AM
da cheese walks
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

i know im just goin to make the same points as everyone else an get blasted for it but in my opinion,yes,the duallist is an advancement in music technology...but you may aswell get a set of "robot kicks"woooo!

but good lord..what will be next?!self rolling snares??!auto-paradiddle---ers?!

i think yes the duallist is a great engineering achievemnt..but its just cheating..i know ill get blasted but honestly thats like gettin a self playing E string for a guitar?!?!you take out the skill...an i think altho a moderate amount of double bass is good,triple bass?!?!?it sounds terrible!!!

it also degrades drummers who have learned double bass on their own,by makin someone sound beter for half the effort...?
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  #78  
Old 11-26-2005, 03:23 AM
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toteman2 toteman2 is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
it also degrades drummers who have learned double bass on their own,by makin someone sound beter for half the effort...?[/

So, does a double pedal degrade drummers who have learned single bass on their own by making someone sound beter for half the effort? Again the dualist allows drummers to do things that would otherwise be impossible...It adds a new angle of creativiity to apply to the instrument...The ostinato demonstration i saw before was CRAZY!
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  #79  
Old 11-26-2005, 03:23 AM
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untilitsleeps untilitsleeps is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

i dont really like them there cheating i rather stick to my iron cobras
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  #80  
Old 11-26-2005, 03:32 AM
da cheese walks
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Default Re: Anyone have Dualist triplekick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toteman2
So, does a double pedal degrade drummers who have learned single bass on their own by making someone sound beter for half the effort?
no see the double bass pedal incorporates the actual skill of the drummer,they use both legs for the kicks...whereas the duallist is basically an auto bass kick,which is triggered by your right (or left if ur lefty) foot...its hard to explain my point because generally at this time of night my vocabulary extends very seldom past words like "nice" an "cool"...

Last edited by DogBreath; 11-28-2005 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Edited to fix formatting
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