16" bass drum... Hints/Suggestions?

valkyrievf2x

Senior Member
Hi!
To start off, my daughter (7) is wanting to learn the drums like me. So, yay! However, only issues I have are:
1) Her size: She is a tiny little girl for her age. I have had her sit at my kit (Ludwig Rocker II), and even with everything lowered as much as it will go, it is HUGE for her. Plus, I’d hate to have to change everything anytime either one of us wanted to play.
2) Cost. Don’t wanna pay $300 for a Ludwig Jr set…

So, my current idea is to make a 16” bass drum out of a floor tom (just not MY floor tom). Given her size, it seems like a good compromise (plus most of those junior kits use 16” bass drums anyway). I’ve read as much as I could on the matter. I know if I want to use the Pearl jungle kit thingamabob, I’ll need an ISS mount for the tom. Head selection seems to be a hit or a miss; I see that some suggest a bass drum head, while others swear by regular coated heads and muffling. That part will probably be trial and error. Is there anything I am missing?
Pricewise, I don’t want to spend more than $150 on it. I already have a cymbal set for her to use (ZBT’s all around, lol) that have been sitting for a while. She will be using a Ludwig Standard Aluminum snare. Not worried about a rack tom yet. Just want her to get the basics to start off (snare, bass, and hats). IF the snare is too big for her to sit at the kit, she can also use my 6x10 PDP popcorn snare. Might sound like a lot of work, but I think she’d appreciate her own custom little kit.
As far as the donor drum, I am looking at this one: http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/msg/4031386320.html
Would a 14x16 be a good depth for a bass drum? I figure for the asking price, it doesn’t seem too bad to experiment (and I like the color…).
Any suggestions and hints are welcome!
 
That drum looks like a 14", but maybe that's just the photo angles. Anyway, a 16" tom makes a fine bass drum if you can get it up off the floor a bit. The Jungle Gig setup is one way to go, but you would have to change the hoop or shell-mount the BT-3 bracket for the pedal clamp side of the lift kit. Depending on your ability to build things, you could make a lifter/cradle out of plywood and some little rubber footies, but the goal is to get the beater away from the edge of the head.

Speaking of, I've had some luck with Remo Powerstroke 3 tom batters and an Ambassador or Emperor for the reso. For muffling, I have used either self-stick foam weather stripping, or an old EMAD ring taped to the head near the double pinstripe. That keeps the drum open and somewhat full-sounding for its size. Stick a batter patch on the beater area and it should act as much like a bass drum as you could expect.
 
Two word--"Craigslist" and "patience". One of those little Tama kits ((stagestar???) will appear, and if you are close to Chattanooga, look on the ATL craigslist. They appear there all the time. Just be ready to drive with the cash---they don't last long. This one is priced a little high, but you might be able to bargain:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/3967724739.html

The other thing you could do is just buy a Sonor Safari. No muss or fuss. That could be fun for her and you, but at $339, it is above your stated price.
 
I use a 16x14 floor tom as a kick, and all I did was slightly tilt the spur holders so the floor tom legs raise the drum above the ground and it works perfect. No extra drilling, just removed 2 screws that I put back in at the end of the night to put it back as a floor tom. Also I recommend getting a felt strip so it doesn't end up sounding like punching a balloon.
 
I took a 16* 16 floor tom and converted t to a bass while in college. This allowed me to fit into a number of tight bars/ clubs and as a bonus made a great jazz bass drum. I bought new bass drum spurs and mounted them then used a gibraltar riser to mount my pedal. Up until last year the riser worked but have since switched to the pearl unit you refered to. My batter is a remo pinstripe and my front is a clear remo ambassador with a small hole. I also stuffed a small pillow touch both head for more of a punch sound. All can be bought for under $100 if you have the drum.
 
I use Danmar's tom kick riser for this purpose. Great although expensive. I got mine second hand in eBay at a reasonable price. I don´t use it much, but I like to have it in case the need arises, you know.
 
I have a 16" bass drum on one of my sets.

The Pearl bass drum lifter is a great and easy solution. Sourcing an ISS mount is quite easy (although I hate them!) and the riser assembly is simply and very solid. The legs they provide are also excellent, although non-adjustable. I decided to go full-time with the 16" and mounted a pair of telescoping legs on mine although I have no complaints about the Pearl kit.

As for heads, I went with a 16" tom head. A Remo Ambassador if my memory serves me. I tune quite high and used a Vater 'Vintage Bomber' beater on mine but I was tuning for bop and it worked very well. I had no issues with projection and I used the kit for a few years with a 20-piece Jazz ensemble.

The tom I used was an old 16"x14" Pearl Export that I had laying around. It's a good shell and although unremarkable, should be very easy and inexpensive to source.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about 16" bass drums. I'm happy to oblige. In my view, it's not a substitute for a larger bass drum and is best tuned to emphasise the fact that it's a smaller drum - i.e. a higher tuning. Trying to tune JAW on a 16" bass drum would cause issues with projection. At any rate, go for a high resonant head tuning to maximise projection.

It's a great size for a kid's kit. An 18" might be a better size if you feel that she might be using it as a 'serious' kit in a few years but 18" bass drums are niche and more expensive - even if you convert a tom. 18" toms are quite rare.
 
My 16" Sonor 3007 floor tom does double-duty as a mini-kick for small stage / low volume applications. For spurs I am able to just pull the spurs off my kick and put them through the tom's leg brackets. I'm fortunate that Sonor's design allows this. For other brands that wouldn't allow this, I have heard a lot of good things about the DW cradle system, but it's kind of expensive.

I made my own riser using a $20 LP claw and about $2 worth of hardware store parts:

IMG_0893.jpg


It consists of a corner brace for wood framing which I had to drill a hole through to accommodate the bolt. Nut and washer hold the bolt in place. The claw affixes to the bolt and connects to the triple-flanged hoop on the drum. The flat piece goes in the kick pedal clamp. Right after I took that picture I screwed a piece of wood to the bottom side for a better grip on the kick pedal, and spray painted the whole thing black. It works pretty well, but you have to get the kick pedal positioned just right or else the pedal will rock when you tighten it down. Works fine for me though.

Here it is on the drum:

IMG_0891.jpg


And here it is in context with the kit:

IMG_0890.jpg


For head combos I want to do more experimenting. Right now I have a coated Powerstroke 3 as the reso, and a coated Vintage A for the batter. Both sides have felt strips. I ended up using gaffer tape and some excess felt to create my own "EMAD" ring on the batter side. This made it sound more like a modern kick, but it's still not QUITE how I want it.

Actually the sound is darn near perfect for low volume / acoustic gigs when I use my vintage bomber beater. But for louder / miced stuff, I need to spend more time dialing it in.

Fork's Drum Closet in Nashville uses a 16" Aquarian Superkick head attached to half a drum shell that is mounted on the wall for their kick pedal demo area. And it sounds amazing. But I can't find a 16" SK readily available anywhere. I'm considering trying an Evans pre-muffled marching bass drum head and to see if that could be a good substitute, since they're more easily found.

Somewhere on this forum I saw a Youtube link showing a guy getting around the whole "you need a wood hoop to use a kick drum head" thing by just turning his triple-flanged hoop backwards so that the "top" of the hoop becomes the part that contacts the hoop's collar... but I think he had to get longer tension rods too. I've never tried it, but tension rods would be a lot cheaper than a wood hoop.

Overall I've had a lot of fun with the 16" bass drum size. There's a lot of versatility in sound with different tunings -- broad spectrum in both pitch and sustain. It's a much different animal than a "conventional" sized 22". Good luck and have fun.
 
My 16" Sonor 3007 floor tom does double-duty as a mini-kick for small stage / low volume applications. For spurs I am able to just pull the spurs off my kick and put them through the tom's leg brackets. I'm fortunate that Sonor's design allows this. For other brands that wouldn't allow this, I have heard a lot of good things about the DW cradle system, but it's kind of expensive.

I made my own riser using a $20 LP claw and about $2 worth of hardware store parts:

IMG_0893.jpg


It consists of a corner brace for wood framing which I had to drill a hole through to accommodate the bolt. Nut and washer hold the bolt in place. The claw affixes to the bolt and connects to the triple-flanged hoop on the drum. The flat piece goes in the kick pedal clamp. Right after I took that picture I screwed a piece of wood to the bottom side for a better grip on the kick pedal, and spray painted the whole thing black. It works pretty well, but you have to get the kick pedal positioned just right or else the pedal will rock when you tighten it down. Works fine for me though.

Here it is on the drum:

IMG_0891.jpg


And here it is in context with the kit:

IMG_0890.jpg


For head combos I want to do more experimenting. Right now I have a coated Powerstroke 3 as the reso, and a coated Vintage A for the batter. Both sides have felt strips. I ended up using gaffer tape and some excess felt to create my own "EMAD" ring on the batter side. This made it sound more like a modern kick, but it's still not QUITE how I want it.

Actually the sound is darn near perfect for low volume / acoustic gigs when I use my vintage bomber beater. But for louder / miced stuff, I need to spend more time dialing it in.

Fork's Drum Closet in Nashville uses a 16" Aquarian Superkick head attached to half a drum shell that is mounted on the wall for their kick pedal demo area. And it sounds amazing. But I can't find a 16" SK readily available anywhere. I'm considering trying an Evans pre-muffled marching bass drum head and to see if that could be a good substitute, since they're more easily found.

Somewhere on this forum I saw a Youtube link showing a guy getting around the whole "you need a wood hoop to use a kick drum head" thing by just turning his triple-flanged hoop backwards so that the "top" of the hoop becomes the part that contacts the hoop's collar... but I think he had to get longer tension rods too. I've never tried it, but tension rods would be a lot cheaper than a wood hoop.

Overall I've had a lot of fun with the 16" bass drum size. There's a lot of versatility in sound with different tunings -- broad spectrum in both pitch and sustain. It's a much different animal than a "conventional" sized 22". Good luck and have fun.

Wow, fellow Chattanoogan! lol

I LOVE your solution! I love to see creative things like that. My first drumset had some piping in lieu of tom arms. Really silly looking, but it worked. Also made a cowbell foot pedal out of some stray wood. Not the best, but it works well enough.

I was at Fork's a couple of weeks ago, and saw that display you are talking about. That is what made me want a 16" bass for her. Had her sit at the throne and try them out, though I can't comment on how well they sounded (a few people were playing things, and the drums are aimed at a wall). They did feel.....punchy?

I did see the video with turning the hoop around to get the bass drum head on there. That will be what I do first. If she turns out to really like it and wants to stay in drumming (she is 7, after all...), then I can get some wood hoops and make it a bit prettier and more "her". Her learning and having fun is what I am after.
 
I have a 16" bass drum on one of my sets.

The Pearl bass drum lifter is a great and easy solution. Sourcing an ISS mount is quite easy (although I hate them!) and the riser assembly is simply and very solid. The legs they provide are also excellent, although non-adjustable. I decided to go full-time with the 16" and mounted a pair of telescoping legs on mine although I have no complaints about the Pearl kit.

As for heads, I went with a 16" tom head. A Remo Ambassador if my memory serves me. I tune quite high and used a Vater 'Vintage Bomber' beater on mine but I was tuning for bop and it worked very well. I had no issues with projection and I used the kit for a few years with a 20-piece Jazz ensemble.

The tom I used was an old 16"x14" Pearl Export that I had laying around. It's a good shell and although unremarkable, should be very easy and inexpensive to source.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about 16" bass drums. I'm happy to oblige. In my view, it's not a substitute for a larger bass drum and is best tuned to emphasise the fact that it's a smaller drum - i.e. a higher tuning. Trying to tune JAW on a 16" bass drum would cause issues with projection. At any rate, go for a high resonant head tuning to maximise projection.

It's a great size for a kid's kit. An 18" might be a better size if you feel that she might be using it as a 'serious' kit in a few years but 18" bass drums are niche and more expensive - even if you convert a tom. 18" toms are quite rare.

Thanks! I'm sure I will. New project for me :)

I just feel a bass drum that is 16" would make her feel more...comfortable? Plus, she probably wouldnt have to kick a 16" as hard as a 22" to make it boom a bit.
 
Update!

Ok, finally got the parts for the conversion. Took all of 5 minutes to convert it... Went with the JG-16 Pearl Jungle Kit adaptor, and a 13"-14" Pearl Optimount to get it all together. Originally was going to go with the hoop/Pearl tom holder/BT-3 mount option, but someone locally was selling the Optimount cheap. For the pedal, I used a Percussion Plus (or some other nameless brand) bass pedal I had used for a cowbell pedal. I wish the badge for the drum would show on top, but the way the floor tom legs are set, it isn't possible. I'm a little OCD, and having the badge on the side of the drum would be.... odd. Right now, it is on the bottom of the bass drum.

Regarding heads, I am currently playing around with a 16" Remo Ebony Pinstripe and a 16" Evans coated G2. I had them laying around, and thought I should see what I could get out of those before I started head shopping. So far, it is really boomy. I'll play around with the tuning a bit to see if I can get a bit more of a focused punch out of it.

So, to give an idea of costs for anyone interested so far:
--Pearl JG16 $30
--Optimount 13'-14": $25
--Pedal $10 a year ago
--Ddrum AMX Maple/Ash Floor tom $50

Here is what it looks like so far:
 

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see if you can have someone play the drum while you walk around the room

any 16" bass drum i've heard that has a hint of muffling sounded like someone kicking a plastic shovel
 
PS3 coated as batter and diplomat weight Fiberskyn as reso.
Works great. I use that combo on my Sonor Safari.
And no, the bass drum does not sound like kicking a plastic shovel.
 
PS3 coated as batter and diplomat weight Fiberskyn as reso.
Works great. I use that combo on my Sonor Safari.
And no, the bass drum does not sound like kicking a plastic shovel.

i should probably clarify

by muffling i meant pillows, blankets, towels, tape or ports

bob's suggestion should do you fine
 
I was kidding when I wrote that about the shovel. I forgot to put the smile at the end.
The PS3 gives the punch and the thin Fiberskyn makes the boom!
That is what makes it work on a small diameter bass drum.
You can add a 3" port if you desire but I wouldn't make a hole any larger than that.
For bigest boom do not port the drum.
 
First of all I applaude you taking the time to make a set up,and teach your little one to play drums.

Please also I'm not trying to a jerk here,put I'd like to point out,that using the Pearl Jungle kit adaptor,dosen't it raise the 16" floor tom up at least 4".That would be the same playing height as a 20" bass drum.

This becomes problematic if you mount a tom over the bass drum.

In your original post,you stated,that your daughter is very small,so using this particular set up,height wise,is the same as using a 20" bass drum.

Why not just use some L-shaped after market bass drum spurs and an anchor on the front hoop.Then use some much smaller C-clamps to clamp a piece of 14" pine or plywood to the reso side rim..This would allow you to clamp the pedal onto the wood,and not the adapter.

Thiis would only raise the drum up an inch or so,and make it more comportable for your daughter to play.

Again,as a drummer and a father,I'm just trying to help.

Steve B
 
see if you can have someone play the drum while you walk around the room
Had my oldest wail away on the bass drum. Lots of "Boom" but not a whole lot of punchiness. I forgot to mention the beater was one of those DW's that has the soft part on one side and the hard section on the other (using the softer side).

PS3 coated as batter and diplomat weight Fiberskyn as reso.
Works great. I use that combo on my Sonor Safari.
And no, the bass drum does not sound like kicking a plastic shovel.
Wrote those down, and getting them as soon as I get out of the house :) I mean, I am not expecting to get a whole lot of punch out of that small drum (14"x16"), but every little bit helps.

First of all I applaude you taking the time to make a set up,and teach your little one to play drums.

Please also I'm not trying to a jerk here,put I'd like to point out,that using the Pearl Jungle kit adaptor,dosen't it raise the 16" floor tom up at least 4".That would be the same playing height as a 20" bass drum.

This becomes problematic if you mount a tom over the bass drum.

In your original post,you stated,that your daughter is very small,so using this particular set up,height wise,is the same as using a 20" bass drum.

Why not just use some L-shaped after market bass drum spurs and an anchor on the front hoop.Then use some much smaller C-clamps to clamp a piece of 14" pine or plywood to the reso side rim..This would allow you to clamp the pedal onto the wood,and not the adapter.

Thiis would only raise the drum up an inch or so,and make it more comportable for your daughter to play.

Again,as a drummer and a father,I'm just trying to help.

Oh, not being a jerk at all!! I like getting all the different views and whatnot. Helps one see it from a different angle and check things that were missed. The hard part is getting it set up for her, and sort of keeping it a surprise. She believes it is for my 3 year old nephew, so that was I can now have her test fit it (nephew isn't that much smaller, so perfect subterfuge lol).

Bass drum is as low as it will go on the JG-16 side, and the legs right now are just set to keeping it level. I am sure that having a proper throne would go a long way to making the perfect fit :) As for a tom, not too worried about it yet. She'll have the bass, snare, a crash/ride (an old Scimitar I had laying around), and hi hats (ZBT/ZXT combo)--just the basics so she'll get started. If I see her doing well in her studies, I might dig up a tom and use a snare stand to mount it, instead of hanging it off the bass. That, of see if there is a way to hang a tom like Ringo used to have (that bracket thingie that held the tome in place, off the side of the bass drum).

Of course, do have to ask.... what do I do with the extra floor tom leg holder? It is just... there.... Hang a ride off of there or something? Here I have her checking out the set (what I have so far) for her "cousin"...

Second picture is of the new bass versus the one on my Ludwig Rockers (14"x22" I think).
 

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Of course, do have to ask.... what do I do with the extra floor tom leg holder? It is just... there.... Hang a ride off of there or something?

"L" arm with a cowbell on it? Or tambourine? Or any piece of percussion with an eye bolt mount?

Nice work on the little kick. More pics of the Rockers?
 
"L" arm with a cowbell on it? Or tambourine? Or any piece of percussion with an eye bolt mount?

Nice work on the little kick. More pics of the Rockers?

Hmmm.... she does know the whole SNL cowbell schtick... She might like a tambourine, though. Something to ponder :)

As for the Rockers, here ya go.... older pic, but they look the same, just with the rack toms being a bit taller and a cowbell mounted on the bass drum :eek:)
 

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